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Orange Immortal [67930]
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HEALTHCARE - Let's settle it once and for all!
Nov 10, 2025, 10:14 AM
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What's the answer? What's the best system or solution to make sure that the most people can easily access quality, affordable health care? Clearly it's broken now and getting worse.
A totally government run system? Totally free market? Some combination of the two? What has to happen to make it possible? What role should insurance companies play? How?
Go!
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CU Medallion [19043]
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Trash bammycare, that is all.***
Nov 10, 2025, 10:24 AM
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All-Time Great [94292]
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Trump has only had about 8 years to come up with a replacement.
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Nov 10, 2025, 10:26 AM
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I mean he's got a concept of a plan.
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CU Medallion [19043]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Trash bammycare, that is all.***
Nov 10, 2025, 10:29 AM
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All-Time Great [94292]
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Maybe you should tell Trump that.
Nov 10, 2025, 10:34 AM
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He can't seem to come up with that as a plan, either.
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Rival Killer [2863]
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All-TigerNet [5879]
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The totally free market system failed
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Nov 10, 2025, 10:30 AM
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You're currently arguing the some combination of the two failed.
Sounds like the only option left is a totally government run system.
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CU Medallion [19043]
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What year did we have the totally free market system?***
Nov 10, 2025, 10:50 AM
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All-TigerNet [5879]
TigerPulse: 47%
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Pre-Medicare
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Nov 10, 2025, 10:52 AM
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Then for everyone but medicare elgible people until Medicaid. Then until Obamacare for everyone who wasn't indigent or eligible for social security.
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National Champion [7941]
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Re: HEALTHCARE - Let's settle it once and for all!
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Nov 10, 2025, 10:52 AM
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If only there were not other developed countries who have done something different. 😆
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CU Medallion [19043]
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They are having major problems as well,
Nov 10, 2025, 10:57 AM
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most due to unfettered immigration. See Sweden.
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110%er [3796]
TigerPulse: 98%
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So, most developed countries have already solved the basic issues....
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Nov 10, 2025, 12:29 PM
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around healthcare that we so greatly struggle with.
If you look at countries like Japan, Taiwan, Australia, most of the EU countries, they have 100% of their population covered. And they do it with different methods. Some countries use a national healthcare system (UK, for example). Other countries use mostly private plans with strong regulation (Switzerland, Netherlands). Some countries use a mix of private and public plans (Germany, Australia). Some countries have a public plan, and then allow buy-up of private supplemental plans (France).
Those countries tend to have 100% universal healthcare.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/2020-12/International_Profiles_of_Health_Care_Systems_Dec2020.pdf
They also have longer average lifespans than the US.
https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/society-at-a-glance-2024_918d8db3-en/full-report/life-expectancy_37a61588.html
They also spend less per capita on healthcare than we do.
https://www.pgpf.org/article/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries/?utm_term=us%20healthcare%20compared%20to%20other%20countries&utm_campaign=Healthcare+General&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=1523796716&hsa_cam=15585669000&hsa_grp=131358281459&hsa_ad=570089444339&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-300247436766&hsa_kw=us%20healthcare%20compared%20to%20other%20countries&hsa_mt=b&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=15585669000&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_eK5vI3okAMVBXF_AB3O6hWdEAAYASAAEgJJyvD_BwE
The most popular healthcare sub-system in the US is Medicare. We should probably make it available to all, without forcing everyone to take it. I think over time, most of the population would take it up, and we'd have almost a full UHC system if we offered Medicare to the entire population.
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Solid Orange [1301]
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Re: So, most developed countries have already solved the basic issues....
Nov 10, 2025, 12:53 PM
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Straight Medicare only covers 80%. Plus no prescription drug coverage. Not so good.
Tax the heck out of everyone, to include a VAT, all healthcare professionals are govt. employees, govt runs hospitals. It is the only way to run a system for 340m cost effectively. Also gotta trim the military budget. Also pay for healthcare professionals education since you will effectively be capping wages.
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Paw Master [17527]
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Re: So, most developed countries have already solved the basic issues....
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Nov 10, 2025, 1:10 PM
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The current system most definitely needs reforming, but having all healthcare professionals as government employees and the government running all hospitals is most definitely not the way to EFFECTIVELY run healthcare.
The VA and military run hospitals are absolutely not efficient. The manana attitude is pervasive there.It's ridiculous to have ORs not allow a case to begin that might finish after 3PM, but that is a reality. There is zero incentive to see the extra patient or do the extra case.
There still needs to be a profit motive for hospitals and physicians to encourage competition, excellence and perhaps more importantly innovation.
This is a very complicated issue and turning the keys entirely over to the government in my opinion is not the answer.
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Oculus Spirit [43271]
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Re: So, most developed countries have already solved the basic issues....
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Nov 10, 2025, 1:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: So, most developed countries have already solved the basic issues.... ] |
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The end result of this would be better primary care and markedly worse and slower specialty care, basically the same system you see in Western Europe. You could make an argument that this could improve population wide health metrics, but it comes at a steep cost.
There’s 0 chance people will take on half a million in debt and spend a decade learning a craft when they could earn more managing a Costco. Making med school free might help a little, but there would still be an enormous exodus of talent from the field of medicine. The stress and pressure are only worth it when the compensation matches the job.
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110%er [3796]
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First, to set the record straight: Medicare Part D has prescription drug cvg...
Nov 10, 2025, 1:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: So, most developed countries have already solved the basic issues.... ] |
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When I say we offer Medicare to the population, what I'm advocating is the entire Medicare spectrum of coverages, which includes Part D, Advantage, Traditional, as well as Medicare Supplement plans.
I think going all the way to your suggestion of what's essentially a nationalized system would be too radical of a change, especially for the US. The US is not a one-size fits all type of society.
I think "Medicare for everyone that wants it" plus "Private for those that want it" is probably the best way forward, and the least disruptive.
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: First, to set the record straight: Medicare Part D has prescription drug cvg...
Nov 10, 2025, 3:18 PM
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Problem is you will still pay all the taxes for universal even if you want or go the private route, that is how it works in EU. So then you still pay premiums too
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National Champion [7941]
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Re: First, to set the record straight: Medicare Part D has prescription drug cvg...
Nov 10, 2025, 3:20 PM
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And? That's how it is with schools. Public is offered, but you have the freedom to pay for private if you can afford it.
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: First, to set the record straight: Medicare Part D has prescription drug cvg...
Nov 10, 2025, 3:39 PM
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Ever hear of vouchers ?
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110%er [3796]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Every country in the EU is different....
Nov 10, 2025, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: First, to set the record straight: Medicare Part D has prescription drug cvg... ] |
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But almost all of them achieve UHC, with better health outcomes than the US, and at less cost.
And all of them have a very strong government presence in healthcare, since it's a public good.
Another way would be "Obamacare for All", which I know MAGA would reflexively hate. But that's basically what the Netherlands and Switzerland do, and they both seem to be non-hellscapes. They have private plans bought on exchanges, that have government subsidies and individual mandates.
I think the US is not ever going to go for a "one size for everyone" public only approach. Private will have to be part of it in order to get buy-in.
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Every country in the EU is different....
Nov 10, 2025, 4:15 PM
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Might want to look at England, not so good. Norway has 6.5m population and a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund to offset costs.
In the EU roughly 63% of every euro earned is taken in some form of tax. It would easily require that here, just saying it is gonna be expensive. As another said , specialty care is gonna have long wait times.
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National Champion [7941]
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Re: Every country in the EU is different....
Nov 10, 2025, 9:00 PM
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What's a better solution?
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National Champion [7941]
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Re: Every country in the EU is different....
Nov 11, 2025, 11:48 AM
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