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Webmaster [∞]
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TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 8:00 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11991]
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3. 2. 1
Jun 5, 2022, 8:11 AM
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Reading between the lines he is saying football is successful because of the financial commitment. I would say football is successful because of the Head Coach and staff. Now I understand that takes financial commitment, but what came first? The vision put forth by the Head Coach and his ability to sell it to fans and administrators allowed for the financial commitment to take place.
Evidently, Brad has been unable to communicate that vision. I would Iove for Basketball to be successful. Make it to the big dance every year and make a run occasionally should be doable at Clemson.
What say you?
Message was edited by: baker5801®
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100930]
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I sat, meant say..
Jun 5, 2022, 8:23 AM
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you are right and having an extra or two assistants may help (like in recruiting, team managing, teaching & organization, etc) but that doesn't necessarily make a head coach smarter in play calling or in game situations..or help players make 2 & 3 pointers in a game.
Still, I'm willing to do what's needed $ wise in adding staff & increasing recruiting budgets so to find & sign better players.
Know our TNet Buddy Judge Keller is excited.
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Valley Legend [12618]
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Re: 3. 2. 1
Jun 5, 2022, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to 3. 2. 1 ] |
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You want to compare the two programs but they are not comparable. Our football program had a Natty, big bowl wins and multiple ACC titles before Dabo arrived. The ingredients were there, just needed the right cook to put it together. Basketball had never done anything of note. A couple of good years here and there quickly followed by a coach leaving for a better gig or probation. Basketball needs a way to show recruits the university values the program and is serious about winning which has not been the case.
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All-In [10404]
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Re: 3. 2. 1
Jun 5, 2022, 8:30 AM
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Football program hadn’t won #### since the 80’s before Coach Swinney took over. The program was near the bottom of the ACC in football spending. It took him winning and winning some big games before the money started flowing. And that winning started before BV arrived.
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Freshman [-94]
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You have a very skewed view of Clemson football
Jun 5, 2022, 12:13 PM
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From the late 70s until the early 90s Clemson had a serious football program. Unfortunately people retire and get replaced by people that don’t prioritize athletic success. And even Dabo was not hired to do what he has done. He was hired because we weren’t serious about football and didn’t want to spend money for a big-time head coach. Luckily for us Dabo had bigger visions and people decided to finally get back behind the program.
And Clemson has had some success in basketball just not sustained. But from the late 70s until the early 90s we had more success when the ACC was harder and the NCAA tournament was harder to get into. The difference in basketball and football historically has been commitment, but for quite a while there was no commitment behind football either.
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Freshman [-74]
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So Dabo built the 2nd best program in America based on a tradition none
Jun 5, 2022, 9:23 PM
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of the kids knew nothing about? I don't think so.
Dabo gets 100% of the credit for what he's built.
Brad has had time to overcome whatever historical obstacles were in the way. He's certainly had everything he needs to do better than two top-40 finishes in 12 years. Numerous teams have done far more with far less.
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Freshman [-94]
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You guys they get on your knees for Dabo never cease to amaze me.
Jun 7, 2022, 12:26 AM
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Clemson had a ton of tradition and untapped potential and was seen by many people as a sleeping giant before Dabo. We had a national championship before Dabo. We had real football tradition before Dabo.
Clemson is in a fantastic location geographically. We have a fantastic fan base built on tradition and having won in the past.
Running down the Hill was the most exciting 25 seconds in college football long before Dabo got to Clemson!
You act like Clemson was a back water football program that no one had ever heard of before Dabo came along. I hate to break it to you, but Clemson is a huge part of the equation that helped Dabo build the program we have today. He doesn’t do this at just any college. He doesn’t do this at just any football program. Dabo is a perfect fit for Clemson and it’s that synergy that helped make this program what it is.
Clemson was unique and special long before Dabo. And it will be long after. People like you are just unbelievable. You really are like religious fanatics when it comes to your worship of Dabo.
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Freshman [-94]
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Let me put a different perspective on this …
Jun 7, 2022, 12:34 AM
[ in reply to So Dabo built the 2nd best program in America based on a tradition none ] |
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Kids at Alabama today didn’t grow up knowing who Bear Bryant was or Joe Namath.
You think Nick Saban could do what he’s doing in Alabama anywhere else? Even a blind man knows that Alabama and it’s history and tradition is a huge part of the equation of what Nick Saban is doing.
Nick Saban has benefited greatly from things that happened in Alabama long before any kid playing at Alabama today was even born. The same goes for Clemson. Dabo doesn’t build what he has at Clemson without Frank Howard and Danny Ford.
Whenever I read comments from people like you one of the first things that pops into my mind is how old are you? Because so many of the postings I see on this forum are from people that have no historical perspective.
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Hall of Famer [8226]
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Re: 3. 2. 1
Jun 5, 2022, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: 3. 2. 1 ] |
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That’s bs
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Freshman [-74]
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He's had TWELVE YEARS. Give us a break that he hasn't
Jun 5, 2022, 8:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: 3. 2. 1 ] |
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been able to build it because the program has never been on football's level. That has NOTHING to do with the lack of accomplishments is 12 years. That's a desperate excuse.
Brad makes the 38th highest salary in America with a similar investment in the program. In 12 years, he led the program to exactly TWO top 40 finishes. Over his tenure there are dozens of lesser financed and traditional programs who have done better.
The difference is CLEARLY coaching. It hasn't been bad players. It hasn't been bad assistants. It hasn't been facilities. It certainly hasn't been fans. The buck stops squarely on the head coach, period.
We all like him as a man. He has done well with every aspect of a program, except win. That's on nobody but him.
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Team Captain [466]
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Yep. And we’ll add a 13th year of data to show more of the same.***
Jun 6, 2022, 11:00 PM
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public
Jun 5, 2022, 8:31 AM
[ in reply to 3. 2. 1 ] |
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because the administration didn’t always agree with that vision and providing what was necessary to get there.
Dabo didn’t just decide one day early in his tenure here to talk about his hopes and dreams. He and the administration had discussed mutual goals and were on the same page. And the administration was in support of him laying out that vision to the public.
Coaches - at least smart ones - don’t just fly off at the mouth about what their needs, wants, goals, and ambitions are without having this cleared by their bosses first.
For the first time, Brownell now feels that he has the necessary commitment from the AD and has the green light to say more publicly.
Hope this helps.
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public
Jun 5, 2022, 8:58 AM
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Possibly your most bs post ever.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public
Jun 5, 2022, 9:35 AM
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Amen.
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Rival Killer [2770]
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Ultimate Tiger [33715]
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Re: Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public
Jun 5, 2022, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public ] |
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Sorry Judge, but Dabo talked about his hopes and dreams for the program in his first interview as head coach. He told the administration right off the bat that he didn’t want to be like any other program, he wanted the program at Clemson to be the one everyone else wanted to be. That’s pretty well documented.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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There had already been discussions with the administration about that.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:19 AM
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Dabo had authorization to say what he did.
But I realize that many of you really want to believe that Dabo is such a visionary that he came up with those goals on his own and proceeded to tell the administration and fans what they were without having permission. I get it, it fits with your perception of him marching to the beat of his own drummer, while also helping you contrast that with your perception of Brad as someone who doesn’t have goals and doesn’t communicate his vision to anyone.
It’s TNet, so I don’t expect you or anyone else to consider otherwise. Carry on.
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: There had already been discussions with the administration about that.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:36 AM
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I guess he precleared Bring Your Own Guts and every other catch phrase. The admin had no intention of keeping Dabo long term at the point he laid out those plans. No one gave a crap what he said.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: There had already been discussions with the administration about that.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:39 AM
[ in reply to There had already been discussions with the administration about that. ] |
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Having more assistants and paying more for them is a good thing. But it does not make cbb a better recruiter and coach. Throw all you want at it but it will not improve his results.
That’s my opinion and others have theirs and i respect that.
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Ultimate Tiger [33715]
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Re: There had already been discussions with the administration about that.
Jun 5, 2022, 10:09 AM
[ in reply to There had already been discussions with the administration about that. ] |
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1. Dabo is that type of visionary and he speaks from the heart. Not always rehearsed.
2. I have never said anything negative about Brownell. I want to see all Tiger teams succeed.
I’m just saying your previous post is factually incorrect. So get your panties out of a wad and have a good day.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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It’s not factually incorrect.
Jun 5, 2022, 12:40 PM
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If you don’t think Dabo and Terry Don Phillips had long conversations about our football program and their mutual goals for the program before Dabo shared it with the media, you really don’t understand how college athletics work.
This isn’t to take away from Dabo’s leadership and vision for the program, but please don’t assume that he gave the administration the idea of playing for championships because he didn’t. Yes, he put his stamp on the program and that has been wonderful, but he was only able to do that and state his goals publicly because the administration was on the same page and gave him the green light to do so.
In other words, the goals were aligned. They haven’t been for Clemson basketball until now.
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: It’s not factually incorrect.
Jun 5, 2022, 2:10 PM
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Goal posts shifted. You explicitly stated that Dabo’s public comments were expressly cleared by the AD, which means you’re claiming he was reading scripted comments. No serious person thanks Dabo speaks this way. You continue to beclown yourself with no obvious motive other than a deep jealousy of Dabo’s accomplishments.
In case it’s not obvious to others, JK is trying to shift the responsibility for success almost exclusively to the AD which makes Dabo’s success and Brownell’s failure inevitable. In his mind they are of equal ability but only one has been supported. Anyone that actually follows Clemson sports for longer than Dabo has been coach would know this is preposterous.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: It’s not factually incorrect.
Jun 5, 2022, 8:51 PM
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Amen
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Orange Elite [5383]
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What we’re not aligned? Winning? Championships? Tournament?
Jun 6, 2022, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to It’s not factually incorrect. ] |
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Give me a break! The administration didn’t say to Brownell that they would renovate Littlejohn for millions just to miss the tournament? No way. The message from the admin has been clear all along. Brownell could say whatever he wanted to say as long as it was about winning. He didn’t need to clear it with anyone. That is BS and you know it! Dabo never asked for permission to demand the best of the admin, the athletes and the fans.
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Ultimate Tiger [33242]
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Freshman [-74]
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Freshman [-74]
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Orange Elite [5383]
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JK… no Dabo didn’t ask for permission, get your fax straight
Jun 6, 2022, 11:54 AM
[ in reply to There had already been discussions with the administration about that. ] |
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Leaders rarely ask for permission. They know what they need to do and do it! Consequences be ######.
Do you think Dabo’s retort to Spurrier was done only after he got permission? Do you think his opinions about NIL and the transfer portal came only after he got permission? Do you really believe he seeks permission to speak about things that #### a lot of people off? Get real!
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Orange Blooded [2268]
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Re: Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public
Jun 5, 2022, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public ] |
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Hey Judge, happy Sunday. This is not meant to be a troll, just a question for my own edification.
I know you are a big supporter of Brownell...you have a solid record for raising logical reasons/arguments for why he and/or program has not gone further.
In your opinion is the goal for Clemson Basketball to be better in general, or just better with Coach Brownell? I know that's a funny line I'm trying to walk, but just trying to figure out what your ultimate take is.
Thanks for letting me pick your brain.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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The goal is to be better in general.
Jun 5, 2022, 12:43 PM
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Neff realizes that we haven’t supported the program the way we need to, so he is providing that support with the belief that Brad will get us there.
If Brad can’t, we will move on to another coach (who would be coming into a much more attractive situation than in the past).
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Orange Blooded [2268]
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Re: The goal is to be better in general.
Jun 5, 2022, 1:40 PM
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I appreciate your candor.
It's a funny parallel to football in some cases, because I'm probably in the camp that "Dabo can do no wrong" myself and the man should have a life-long position as long as he wants. Obviously there are some outlying conditions, but you I think you get the point.
Thanks, Judge. Let's just hope all boats rise this next year!
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Standout [303]
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Re: The goal is to be better in general.
Jun 5, 2022, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to The goal is to be better in general. ] |
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Neff realizes that we haven’t supported the program the way we need to, so he is providing that support with the belief that Brad will get us there.
If Brad can’t, we will move on to another coach (who would be coming into a much more attractive situation than in the past).
That’s my feeling. If we support the basketball program better and Brownell fails, it doesn’t mean that the money was wasted. It helps recruit the next coach and his players because it demonstrates that we are serious.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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Absolutely. We HAVE to support basketball a lot better
Jun 6, 2022, 2:47 PM
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at Clemson.
It's not wasted on Brad at all, whether he excels or not.
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Ultimate Tiger [33632]
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Rival Killer [2770]
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Re: Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public
Jun 5, 2022, 12:21 PM
[ in reply to Brad wasn’t allowed to communicate a vision to the public ] |
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At least one major difference in my total feeling is . . I don't like the style of BB he wants his teams to play. That has nothing to do with money. Not a fan, don't agree, didn't do it that way myself.
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Hall of Famer [8226]
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Gridiron Giant [16039]
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Freshman [-74]
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Freshman [-94]
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Orange Immortal [62784]
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Re: 3. 2. 1
Jun 5, 2022, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to 3. 2. 1 ] |
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Dabo was also getting out there, and doing his part with fund raising to help get the FB infrastructure of the FB program to what it is today.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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Yes, much like Brad had to do in order to get our basketball facility upgrades.***
Jun 5, 2022, 12:44 PM
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Orange Immortal [62784]
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Re: Yes, much like Brad had to do in order to get our basketball facility upgrades.***
Jun 5, 2022, 1:54 PM
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Maybe so Judge, I just don't remember Brad out there leading fund raisers to help pay for what was done in Little John, like Dabo did do with a lot of the construction that was done in DV!!! Even with Dabo helping with fund raisers, if his record would have been the very same as Brad's, most wouldn't have remembered Dabo's name today!!!
Message was edited by: allorangeallthetime52®
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Rival Killer [2770]
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Freshman [-74]
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All-In [10827]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 8:16 AM
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Money talks and bs walks. If you want to play, you have to play so let's play. Go Tigers.
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Paw Warrior [4886]
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I still say he should have done better
Jun 5, 2022, 8:32 AM
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than he did with what we already had. He underperformed and I’m not sold on his coaching ability. I really hope the $$$ will help us improve greatly but I still feel a new coach is needed so we can start completely over and add excitement. This guy just doesn’t have the personality to get fans excited.
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Clemson Conqueror [11113]
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Clemson Conqueror [11113]
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What a con artist.
1
Jun 5, 2022, 8:35 AM
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Dude has been stealing millions from Clemson for 12 years.
Now he has convinced the rookie AD he needs more money.
Good grief.
Tell me when it’s over.
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Orange Immortal [62831]
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Re: What a con artist.
Jun 5, 2022, 8:58 AM
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Haven't heard Dabo whine about NOT having funds. Win and the money will be there. Every program at Clemson has needs. I'll wait and see how this translates next season.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: What a con artist.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:40 AM
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Amen
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All-In [25697]
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Lol @ Dabo not whining.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: What a con artist. ] |
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First, he does whine. About plenty of things. (Whining about the media, whining about people twisting his words, whining about people being after him all the time, whining about people attacking his character… Again, the guy has a serious persecution complex.)
But back to the point, he does not whine about money for one reason alone: he doesn’t HAVE to. You’d have to be pretty ignorant of the goings on at Clemson to not know that incontrovertible fact.
From 2012
“ By paying its assistants a combined $3.8 million for 2012, Clemson joins elite company. Last year, just six football programs spent $3 million or more on assistants.”
“ “You get some criticism on the compensation side and I understand that, and we work to try to have balance,” Terry Don Phillips said. “But at the same time if you have outstanding people that other people will want to hire, you need to secure them because when you lose continuity that can break down your program.”
Clemson pumping serious money into football program: https://www.goupstate.com/story/news/2012/01/25/clemson-pumping-serious-money-into-football-program/29983857007/
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: Lol @ Dabo not whining.
Jun 5, 2022, 10:36 AM
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What preceeded that investment? How much was spent on assistants in 2009, 2010, and 2011? What accomplishments were achieved in 2009 and 2011 that had eluded Clemson to that point? The accomplishments preceded the investments. Brownell unambiguously wants it the other way around.
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Rival Killer [2726]
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Recruit [62]
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Re: Lol @ Dabo not whining.
Jun 5, 2022, 10:45 AM
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??. This is what I was thinking. On point.
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Clemson Conqueror [11113]
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Exactly. The BrownL Bros never want to answer this one.
1
Jun 5, 2022, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Lol @ Dabo not whining. ] |
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I think the only answer I’ve ever seen is “he shouldn’t have to.”
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Orange Blooded [2184]
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Re: Lol @ Dabo not whining.
Jun 5, 2022, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Lol @ Dabo not whining. ] |
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Well, if Dabo does whine he must have picked that bad habit up from the fans. You guys kind of suck unless you’re unbeaten in every sport and there’s no DJ involved. Whiners whining about whiners would be so hilarious if it wasn’t so #### annoying
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Dynasty Maker [3445]
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Dabo does not have to whine
Jun 5, 2022, 3:03 PM
[ in reply to Lol @ Dabo not whining. ] |
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Because what Dabo wants, Dabo gets
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Clemson Conqueror [11113]
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Whatever Dabo wanted, Dabo earned.
1
Jun 5, 2022, 3:29 PM
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And now he gets.
You should ask jstone D329 what he thinks.
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: What a con artist.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to What a con artist. ] |
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Then turns around and gives to a guy he coached with all the way back at UNC-Wilmington. He could’ve put this team together at any point in the last 12 years. He’s piling it so high it’s starting to stink.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: What a con artist.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:40 AM
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Amen again.
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Ring of Honor [23735]
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I enjoyed reading some of these post, got a chuckle out...
Jun 5, 2022, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to What a con artist. ] |
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of this one so TU.
I like Brad and I like Judge. I do see your point and others on here. I don't see how paying Brad a little more is going to make him a better coach.
That's such a bs argument on so many levels, but to be fair, Brad was talking about more money to bring in more coaches. Now that would make sense.
Still, we haven't seen results. I am curious to see what we are doing and if it works.
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: I enjoyed reading some of these post, got a chuckle out...
Jun 5, 2022, 2:18 PM
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The actual increase in assistant salaries is negligible to our overall budget. If this is truly what has held our program back (I sincerely doubt but am willing to play along) the decision making process within our AD needs to be more throughly scrutinized by the news outlets that cover Clemson sports - including TNet. It shouldn’t all be fluf pieces. If these assistants yield big results it should bring as much scrutiny as huzzahs. The cost of the additional salary has been more than offset by flagging attendance as Brownell malaise set in. If it works it should have happened a decade ago and Neff has been part of the AD with specific basketball oversight for a long time. If we’re gonna let Brownell play victim (and JK makes it clear he believes every statement from Brownell is precleared by the AD) then the AD should answer for why he was victimized.
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Rival Killer [2726]
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$ per win
Jun 5, 2022, 9:01 AM
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Wonder how much clemson has paid per win compared to other acc schools
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: $ per win
Jun 5, 2022, 9:38 AM
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That’s a little trickier because Duke, UNC, and others pay a ton per win - but they have trophy case for the efforts. I’d put a caveat like $s per win without a championship. Then we’re probably head of the pack.
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Rival Killer [2726]
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Re: $ per win
Jun 5, 2022, 10:33 AM
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Right. They’re getting a good return on investment because championships are a lot more valuable than early season non conference home wins.
Just scanning the list of bball expenditures the article cites, a few things jump out. UNC spent half as much as duke for one. Pitt spent way more than Clemson while Notre Dame spent basically the same.
If we’re talking about investment, we have to talk about value and return. If I’m a portfolio manager, UNC and ND are great value plays and I’m increasing exposure there. Duke got a solid return, albeit at a hefty price. I’d rate them a hold. Pitt obviously isn’t a good investment. I’d trim there. And with Clemson right next to ND in expenditures and way behind in return, I’m cutting exposure there, not pouring more money in.
Dollars don’t equal wins and championships. See Pitt. There is a huge variation in what schools get for their money. Clemson is never going to outspend duke and unc. They need a value guy like Mike Bray has been for Notre Dame, but instead their guy is out there talking about more money being the answer. It’s disheartening.
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CU Medallion [18452]
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Re: $ per win
Jun 5, 2022, 10:38 AM
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Well put
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Game Changer [1818]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 9:09 AM
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Neff can't be trusted. Clemson is screwed as long as they have him. Clemson was screwed long time with last AD. Who ever hired Neff wasn't Clemson fan that is for sure. I thought he was going to take his time to build Clemson athletics since young but his is ruining Clemson so fast. #Hashtag Fire Neff
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 9:22 AM
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Orange Elite [5354]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 9:52 AM
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No more excuses. BB is lucky he wasn’t given the boot before Monte. If a cat, BB is on his 9th life.
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Asst Coach [807]
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Orange Blooded [2268]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 10:35 AM
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Ya I'm confused more than normal with that one
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Ultimate Tiger [33715]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 11:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program ] |
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We should probably give the man a chance. Most of what I’ve heard him say so far makes sense. Sounds like he has laid out expectations for the basketball program and I hope we realize those expectations. It would be fun to see us reach the sweet 16 and be a factor in the ACC. How and if we get there is up to the folks that run the program including Neff and BB.
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Dynasty Maker [3445]
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Clemson Icon [26243]
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Freshman [-74]
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All-TigerNet [6091]
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Sounds like Brad is better friends with Neff than Monte
Jun 5, 2022, 9:15 AM
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All the gold in Fort Knox will not make CBB any smarter when it comes to managing a basketball program. He has not been able to implement any of the variables involved in making a successful, winning team.
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National Champion [7271]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Sounds like Brad is better friends with Neff than Monte
Jun 5, 2022, 9:42 AM
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Amen
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Ultimate Tiger [33242]
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And all the gold in Ft Knox won’t suddenly make him more
Jun 5, 2022, 12:06 PM
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personable than the doorknob he currently is.
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Paw Master [16210]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 10:00 AM
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We have a relatively new basketball facility. The BB team has the same access to food, academic help, career counseling as the football team. We play in the ACC which until recently has been the premier conference in college basketball.
Last I heard we can't shower the basketball players with cash. Few if any of the players Brad brings in are gonna get NIL money to any extent.
Brad is NOT a dynamic personality. He is not a good recruiter on a good day. You can have decent success if you're an excellent recruiter. Brad is not. I have yet to hear Brad's name mentioned by those in the know as a masterful game day coach.
I'm sure BB is excited to be around for a 13th season. I like the man Brad Brownell, but am not excited about the future of Clemson basketball under his watch. BB himself said we've got to recruit better. Ok, money is coming into the program, there shouldn't be more excuses.
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Orange Blooded [2268]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 10:09 AM
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Personally, I am observing the timing of this as 'tactical' by Neff.
He just fired Monte Lee, so the axe is out on full display.
Now there is an overture by Admin to get more money and resources to basketball...which has been a major request (some might say excuse) for many years.
If the limitation of funding/resources is now overcome, this may be setting the table for a 'no excuses' expectation. It might also be the start of showing a little skin to perhaps entice a new Coach down the road.
I'm not advocating for or against CBB, I'm just observing the timing and the gesture and trying to interpret the tea leaves.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
TigerPulse: 79%
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I agree with all of that.
Jun 5, 2022, 12:50 PM
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Clemson can and should be better at men’s basketball.
It only makes sense to give the program great support. We haven’t had that, and anyone who is being honest can see that.
By giving the program more resources to try to address the challenges we have at Clemson, we give the current coach a better chance to succeed and also put us in a much better negotiating position to hire our next coach should we find ourselves looking for one.
I can’t understand why everyone here who is actually a Clemson basketball fan isn’t 100% on board with this.
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Orange Blooded [2268]
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Re: I agree with all of that.
Jun 5, 2022, 1:43 PM
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As long as it doesn't detract from Football I'm totally fine with it personally, haha.
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National Champion [7271]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I agree with all of that.
Jun 5, 2022, 9:03 PM
[ in reply to I agree with all of that. ] |
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There are some on tnet who believe, like a particular political party, that the solution to a problem is to throw money at it. Generally with government programs you get marginal improvement and are stuck with an increase in spending for a one time improvement. Such could be the case with our basketball problem. We may see some marginal improvement but until the head of the program changes we will have a marginal program. If the same philosophy continues and we continue to throw more and more money at it with small results we will be stuck in the same place ad infinitum.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101194]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I look forward to him capitalizing and winning championships. ??***
Jun 5, 2022, 10:45 AM
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Paw Warrior [5055]
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Two items - mutually exclusive to each other
Jun 5, 2022, 11:45 AM
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1. Additional support. Fine with me.Great - if money is available.
2. A coach that after 13 years has a winning percentage better than 1 of the past 6 coaches in 50 years. Larry Shyatt is the only one BB is better than.
Giving more money to a mediocre coach does not make him a great coach. It makes him a mediocre coach with a bigger budget.
Now, we get to hear from JK that Dabo was given money, that administration was behind the football improvement, that Dabo had no master plan. What a load of crud. Dabo had a plan, sold it, executed on that plan - results supported the plan - then money came.
This is the same JK that loves to take jabs at Dabo, our linebackers, offensive line, softball team - etc.
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CU Medallion [20860]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2009
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Looking forward to the "No Excuses" 2022-2023
Jun 5, 2022, 11:48 AM
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campaign.
Also happy to see Brad bring on these old assistants. His record in close games at UNCW and Wright State were much higher, more in line with his overall record, than he's managed since coaching against ACC caliber peers, where he consistently pulls up the rear here. It's a shame he didn't have the wherewithal and foresight that Dabo did to pony up some of his own salary for these types of hires earlier in order to leverage up the program's fortunes but it is what it is.
Git 'er done or go home. Seems like everyone is on the same page with expectations going forward. That's comforting.
Go Tigers.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Again, for the thousandth time, Brad restructured his contract a few years ago
Jun 5, 2022, 12:52 PM
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in order to allow for a raise for assistants.
I know this is really hard for some of you to accept, because it weakens your argument that Dabo was the only one to do so.
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CU Medallion [19108]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Joined: 2004
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Judge, how come haven't had more success in the portal?...
Jun 5, 2022, 12:56 PM
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in order to allow for a raise for assistants.
I know this is really hard for some of you to accept, because it weakens your argument that Dabo was the only one to do so.
Yet this season? getting down the home stretch and looks like they are not going to get one of the guys that was considered one of the top 100 transfers? How come they didn't get a really good lead guard similar to Llewelyn after they lost him?
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Rival Killer [2726]
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Freshman [-74]
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CU Medallion [18452]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Looking forward to the "No Excuses" 2022-2023
Jun 5, 2022, 2:24 PM
[ in reply to Looking forward to the "No Excuses" 2022-2023 ] |
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Unfortunately 22-23 isn’t the no excuses campaign. They gave the new assistants guarantees through 23-24, which coincides with the end of Brownell’s term. 1 year of support will be deemed not enough and he’ll get to finish up no matter what happens next year. It’s also why portal recruiting went stone cold after the ink dried with the assistants. They’re fully on a two year plan hoping to develop the what the have and augment next off season for that contract year. We’re being treated fully like an NFL player approaches his contract season. Lay up and avoid injury the year before then go for broke. I for one don’t think 2 good seasons in 14 should be enough to keep him around. But he’ll probably pull it off and we’ll get another 4 years of overpaid, crap basketball.
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Top TigerNet [32776]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 11:49 AM
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110%er [3625]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 12:03 PM
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Cool. Let's see it and see the results. I like it. Will it work?
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Offensive Star [304]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 12:28 PM
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Excuse me...???? mr brownell Is No Dabo!
And No amount of money is going to make mr Brownell a good coach. I stand on my position that an average middle school coach would have won the last ACC game vs VA Tech.
Mark my word, this time next year mr brownell
Will Not be employed by Clemson Univ.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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Likewise, our newfound commitment to basketball is nothing like
Jun 5, 2022, 12:54 PM
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our commitment to football, our basketball history is nowhere near what it was for football, and our path to basketball success isn’t as easy as it has been for football.
Let’s get that clear.
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CU Medallion [20860]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2009
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What is your absolute minimum for this season ahead to
Jun 5, 2022, 1:15 PM
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keep or cut bait?
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Ultimate Tiger [33242]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Laying the early footings for building the excuses for this
Jun 5, 2022, 3:17 PM
[ in reply to Likewise, our newfound commitment to basketball is nothing like ] |
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next brownlee “crapping of the bed”, I see, JK.
“Sure - there has been an improvement in support but it’s only been 1 year AND it’s NOWHERE NEAR what they give that “he’s nothing special” Dat Boy.”
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Dynasty Maker [3118]
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Re: Likewise, our newfound commitment to basketball is nothing like
Jun 5, 2022, 4:31 PM
[ in reply to Likewise, our newfound commitment to basketball is nothing like ] |
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Clemson football has been bad, since the firing of coach Ford. Coach Bowdens ticket was coach Rich Rod, who left us and Bowden back to C+ average. Dabo changed what we were doing and climbed the mountain.
Brad not so much after 12 years. The excitement for BBall has gone down, except for about four followers on Tnet The guy that hired the new AD is probably the one that hired BB. Something isn’t right there to have him still coaching and putting that product on the floor. It’s not going to get better and changes need to be made and it’s not throwing money at it It’s finding another Dabo passion as a Clemson Basketball Coach.
Message was edited by: tigersnake1954®
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Game Changer [2031]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Our financial commitment to Men’s Soccer …
Jun 5, 2022, 8:58 PM
[ in reply to Likewise, our newfound commitment to basketball is nothing like ] |
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… is nowhere near that for football or basketball… but we have a great head coach in Mike Noonan, and great staff too … PLUS our third National Championship last year.
Programs need money, but money doesn’t win championships.
Unless some of that money is spent for improving the BB’s coaching, it won’t make any difference in results.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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You're right, successful programs also benefit greatly
Jun 6, 2022, 2:54 PM
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from other things such as a winning tradition, something Clemson men's soccer has in spades: multiple ACC championships, multiple NCAA Tournament appearances, and two national championships before Noonan took over.
We don't have that winning history in men's basketball.
Of course more money doesn't make someone a better coach, but it does pay for a better staff, who can recruit better players, and game plan better, both of which are ultimately needed to win more.
Having the right coach is certainly necessary, and some of us believe that Brad is that right coach. He just needs to have more things in his favor in terms of program support from the administration.
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Freshman [-74]
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Yet again, we have much more "commitment" than
Jun 5, 2022, 9:42 PM
[ in reply to Likewise, our newfound commitment to basketball is nothing like ] |
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dozens of teams that have done better than us over the last 12 years?
Why do you keep recycling the same excuses when each and every one of them has been shot down "thousands" of times?
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Orange Beast [6579]
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Very troubled
Jun 5, 2022, 2:55 PM
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I have been keeping an eye out for the improvements to basketball. As a long time IPTAY member, I am very disturbed that Neff is apparently having to play catch up in basketball. My question is, who made the decision to intentionally underfund basketball?
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Tiger Titan [50706]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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Yes, it is troubling.
Jun 6, 2022, 2:59 PM
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Clemson's underfunding of basketball literally extends back generations. My understanding is that it is due to us being "all in" when it comes to football for decades, which is great for football but not so great for our only other profit-generating sport - men's basketball.
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MVP [528]
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Re: TNET: Brownell sees football-like commitment from Neff making difference for program
Jun 5, 2022, 5:12 PM
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The initial proof is in the recruiting - letr me know when we have commitments from top 100 players!
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Hall of Famer [8226]
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Another thinly-veiled attempt
Jun 6, 2022, 12:48 PM
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To blame the university for his coaching failures
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TigerNet Immortal [176506]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Bye Brad.***
Jun 6, 2022, 7:04 PM
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