GIVE AN AWARD
Use your TNETs™ to grant this post a special award and grant the author bonus TNETs™!


YOUR BALANCE
monetization_on
Like him or not Jack Leggett clearly loves Clemson baseball,
Tiger Boards - Clemson Baseball
add New Topic
Topics: Previous | Next
Replies: 32  

Like him or not Jack Leggett clearly loves Clemson baseball,

emoji_events [9]
Jun 17, 2022, 8:45 AM
Reply

I believe Neff knocked it out of the park with this hire while also sealing the rift b/w CU and JL.

As for Monte, I'm sure he'll land on his feet somewhere, hopefully not in Cootville, IMHO he belongs at a good mid major program. His daughter being a Clemson grad is probably hurting.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link


I was happy to see him wearing a Clemson shirt and smiling yesterday.

[4]
Jun 17, 2022, 9:05 AM
Reply

It was indeed obvious from his comments that he was hurt by the way he was treated at Clemson. But I think people need to remember Jack made his own bed. The baseball program had seriously declined and while Jack was a heck of a baseball coach, he didn’t have the temperament to bring out the best in his players in Omaha. Those last few years Jack was on the hot seat and the administration was pressuring him to make changes, but he basically gave them the middle finger and said it’s my program so #### off!

I hated that it happened the way it happened because he is a genuinely a good man and he was Bill Wilhelm's hand-picked successor, but at the end it was time for him to go. Unfortunately, the situation could’ve been handled better, but frankly Jack was part of that problem.

So I agree that some old wounds were healed yesterday and it was good to see Jack back and wearing the tiger paw with a smile on his face, but we shouldn’t sugarcoat things or have any revisionist history because at the time Jack had to go.

When the writing is on the wall you get to decide how you go out. Jack went out angry and bitter. Monte Lee went out hurt and disappointed but thankful for the opportunity.

Speaking of Monte Lee, he is a class act and a good ball coach, I just think the Clemson job was too big for him. He’s young he’ll have plenty of opportunities. Because again, he’s a good ball coach and very well respected in baseball.

2022 orange level member flag link

I’d rather lose in the “final four” in omaha

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 9:09 AM
Reply

Than never even sniff a super regional. I’ve said it many times, but Monte won with jacks players and had the new facilities to recruit with. Leggett never had an opportunity to coach in a building he helped build.

Not saying at all it wasn’t time for leggett to go, but the riff between him and d-rad was not necessary.

Water under the bridge, but had leggett stayed with Beer, Raleigh, the kids who went to Florida, we would have been in better shape. Hindsight is 20/20. But Lee was not the answer.

Hoping to bridge the gap with Bakich.

flag link

ALL IN!!


Jack didn’t build Clemson baseball.

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 9:25 AM
Reply

Bill Willhelm built Clemson baseball. Jack’s best three consecutive years were his first three years.

The program had been in decline for years and thanks to some great assistant coaches we made a run in 2002, 2006, and 2010. But after that the program started crapping the bed.

Money Lee was considered a hot up and coming coach, and extremely well liked especially in the baseball world, but I think the Clemson job was too big for him. But he went out with class. Jack did not.

I agree things could’ve been handled better and I wish that bitterness and rift did not exist. But I think you are making a mistake, as are others, to put all of the blame on DRad. Jack played a big part in that too!

I certainly would have loved to have seen Monte help heal that wound, but it wasn’t his problem to fix and it didn’t happen. But Graham Neff did a wonderful job reaching out to Jack and it was great to see him back in orange and smiling yesterday.

2022 orange level member flag link

Awful take. Wilhelm built it, Jack took it to new heights.

[2]
Jun 17, 2022, 9:37 AM
Reply

Our best two years, the pinnacle of our program, happened under Jack. Jack had us in the supers more often and in the CWS more often and only missed the tournament ONCE in 20+ years.

It is simply factually incorrect to say that Leggett's tenure was inferior to Bill's. Two of the highest final rankings Clemson baseball ever had was more than 3 years after Bill retired.

And who hired the assistants? What kind of ridiculous perspective is it to say that assistants deserve more credit? All those assistance BASED their team building and approaches on what they learned from Jack. They call him for advice on a regular basis. You are talking out of your ###.

Look and see the best years for yourself. It's obvious.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Clemson_Tigers_baseball_seasons

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

You’re getting emotional. Calm down Francis.


Jun 17, 2022, 10:13 AM
Reply

I did the numbers.

The best three years Jack had at Clemson when you look at a three-year stretch was his first three years after he took over the program. It was a steady decline after that.

Yes 2002, 2006, and 2010 we had great teams. But under Jack there was no consistency. And after 2010 the program went to hell. Why? Because Jack couldn’t do it without great assistants.

Yes with Jack as head coach we had some great years, but the program also started going to hell with Jack as head coach.

You seem to be forgetting that we went 0–4 against South Carolina in Omaha when we had better teams and I blame 100% of that on Jack because he was wrapped way too tight and our play in those games was a direct reflection of how Jack managed the players. Jack had the wrong temperament because you need to be loose to play well in baseball.

I think if you take a deeper look at the years that we had those runs in Omaha and you look at the staff and you look at the decline following 2010 you’ll see some patterns. Jack was a much better judge of coaching talent that he was at managing players when it mattered most in Omaha.

2022 orange level member flag link

Let's establish facts right now.


Jun 17, 2022, 4:00 PM
Reply

Final rankings for Wilhelm's last 5 years...

14, 30, 4, 7, 16.

Final rankings for Jack's first 5 years...

4, 6, 4, 24, 19

In Jack's NINTH YEAR we finished 3rd

In Jack's THIRTEENTH YEAR we finished 5th

In Jack's SEVENTEENTH YEAR we finished 4th

Finishing 3rd was the best finish in the history of our program. That happened nearly 10 years AFTER Wilhelm.

These are facts.

If you are trying to make some silly argument that involves 3 consecutive years, then if you judge Bill Wilhelm by the same standards he never had anything anywhere close. Jack set the bar much higher. The "decline" was still better than Wilhelm's resume! Be logical.

ANd don't even get me started on the ridiculous argument about Jack not "depending" on his assistants. He made it to the College World Series with several different assistants. Jack coached third base and absolutely managed the game directly. His assistant coaches have repeatedly confirmed that in interviews since. Plus, Jack HIRED THEM in the first place. lol, they didn't fall out of the sky.

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

BTW you exposed exactly what I was saying about why


Jun 17, 2022, 4:02 PM
Reply

so many fans were delusional.

You seem to be forgetting that we went 0–4 against South Carolina in Omaha when we had better teams and I blame 100% of that on Jack because he was wrapped way too tight and our play in those games was a direct reflection of how Jack managed the players. Jack had the wrong temperament because you need to be loose to play well in baseball.

That's it right there!

You are butthurt over our hated rival being one of the best college baseball dynasties in the history of the game. So your judgment is way out of whack.

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

Nice cherry picking of data.


Jun 17, 2022, 7:59 PM
Reply

I tell you what I did years ago. I averaged the win/loss record of Jack’s entire career at Clemson. I took a rolling three year average starting with year one, two, three then year two, three, four, etc. for Jack’s career.

After I did that it was blatantly blindingly obvious that Jack’s best three years in terms of average win loss record was his first three years. After that it was a steady decline his entire career. With the exception of 2002, 2006, and 2010 it was a near straight line. Jack’s career from beginning to end in terms of win loss record looks like the Dow Jones industrial average over the last three months.

He didn’t get fired because of what happened in Omaha. He didn’t get fired because of anything South Carolina did. Those were merely salt in the wound. Jack got fired because he was an ####### and the program had gone to crap and just like with Brad Brownell he was told to make some changes and he told the administration to go #### themselves.

Jack made his bed and he had to lay in it. Do I wish things could’ve been handled better. Yes. Do I wish he would’ve been welcomed after the fact around Clemson. Yes. But your version of what happened is not accurate.

Like I posted in another thread commenting to you go read the article David Hood wrote here on Tigernet back in 2014 about the collapse of the program following the 2010 choke job in Omaha.

2022 orange level member flag link

Blah blah blah blah


Jun 17, 2022, 8:22 PM
Reply

Your short-term, emotional mentality severely damaged Clemson baseball. And you are too pig-headed to see what is happening right in front of you. Neff is helping us atone for D-Rad's stupidity and it is likely going to save the program.

You keep sticking to your low-IQ metrics and bull-headed blustering. Final rankings are the best indicator of success of a team. How deep into the NCAA tourney a team goes is the best indicator.

During Jack's tenure there were less than a handful of teams that matched Clemson's consistency in baseball. You are just forever doomed to have bad opinions that cause damage in ways you are too blind to notice. Clemson baseball is moving on right in front of your face. We will clean up the mess you and the large gaggle of low-IQ, butthurt fans left behind. And you can stick along for the ride.... despite yourself.

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

FYI you also make an argument that I did not make.


Jun 17, 2022, 10:21 AM
Reply

You’re putting words in my mouth. I agree with some of the things you’re saying but it doesn’t change the fact that Bill Willhelm built that program. Jack didn’t take over a program and build it he took a great program and made it better. But did he? I think history has shown his assistants had more to do with it than he did. Yes he hired those assistants But he was the one managing the team in Omaha when they choked not once but twice against South Carolina.

When those assistants left and he didn’t replace them with the same caliber the program started going down fast. He was given the opportunity to replace those guys and he refused. So while I appreciate the man and what he did he got what he deserved. You need to chill because you’re clearly forgetting what happened.

Jack was a big part of the problem and he made his own bed. I would have loved to have seen things handled better but Jack was part of the problem and you don’t seem to be remembering that.

2022 orange level member flag link

Re: Awful take. Wilhelm built it, Jack took it to new heights.


Jun 17, 2022, 7:58 PM
Reply

You seem to be the type who throws a couple of logs on a fire someone else started and when it flames up think you did the heavy lifting.

As far as JL goes, at my job if you show up after being fired they call the cops

flag link

Yeah but nobody cares about your job.***

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 8:13 PM
Reply



badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

I’d rather lose in the “final four” in omaha


Jun 17, 2022, 9:09 AM
Reply

Than never even sniff a super regional. I’ve said it many times, but Monte won with jacks players and had the new facilities to recruit with. Leggett never had an opportunity to coach in a building he helped build.

Not saying at all it wasn’t time for leggett to go, but the riff between him and d-rad was not necessary.

Water under the bridge, but had leggett stayed with Beer, Raleigh, the kids who went to Florida, we would have been in better shape. Hindsight is 20/20. But Lee was not the answer.

Hoping to bridge the gap with Bakich.

flag link

ALL IN!!


I’d rather lose in the “final four” in omaha


Jun 17, 2022, 9:09 AM
Reply

Than never even sniff a super regional. I’ve said it many times, but Monte won with jacks players and had the new facilities to recruit with. Leggett never had an opportunity to coach in a building he helped build.

Not saying at all it wasn’t time for leggett to go, but the riff between him and d-rad was not necessary.

Water under the bridge, but had leggett stayed with Beer, Raleigh, the kids who went to Florida, we would have been in better shape. Hindsight is 20/20. But Lee was not the answer.

Hoping to bridge the gap with Bakich.

flag link

ALL IN!!


I’d rather lose in the “final four” in omaha


Jun 17, 2022, 9:09 AM
Reply

Than never even sniff a super regional. I’ve said it many times, but Monte won with jacks players and had the new facilities to recruit with. Leggett never had an opportunity to coach in a building he helped build.

Not saying at all it wasn’t time for leggett to go, but the riff between him and d-rad was not necessary.

Water under the bridge, but had leggett stayed with Beer, Raleigh, the kids who went to Florida, we would have been in better shape. Hindsight is 20/20. But Lee was not the answer.

Hoping to bridge the gap with Bakich.

flag link

ALL IN!!


Agreed, both sides could have handled it better...UofSuCk's


Jun 17, 2022, 9:13 AM
Reply

success had a lot to do with JL's "release".

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link


I don't really see how it "could have been handled better".


Jun 17, 2022, 9:17 AM
Reply

Leggett vehemently did NOT want to leave, any way, shape or form. This necessitated his firing. At that point, nothing was going to make it "better".

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Re: I don't really see how it "could have been handled better".


Jun 17, 2022, 9:22 AM
Reply

It did not realize the rift was as bad as it was.

2022 orange level member flag link


People forget how it all went down.

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 9:37 AM
Reply

They forget that Jack was given respect and a long leash. They forget that just like with Brad Brownell, Jack was told things need to change, and I think Jack was told to make some changes on the staff, but Jack said #### off and you can’t do that to your bosses when you’re not getting the job done.

Danny Ford was getting the job done, but unfortunately got into a power struggle with a president that didn’t like the head coach being bigger than him and Max was not a fan of big time sports programs in academia. He was an outsider from up north. But I understand Danny Ford‘s position because I would sit in Malden hall with friends of mine on the football team looking at brochures of the football dorm and facilities being built at NC State. And at that time they had a hell of a program and a great coach and it was the beginning of the arms race in football facilities. It just played out differently than people thought because the NCAA outlawed football only dormitories. But in the end I think it all worked out for the best because players now live in apartments, which are nicer than a dorm ever would’ve been. Unfortunately Danny got caught in the crossfire. but like Jack, Danny wasn’t exactly Danny’s best friend.

These things are rarely as simple as people think. People are complex creatures and coaches have big egos, but so do college presidents and athletic directors.

2022 orange level member flag link

Re: People forget how it all went down.

[2]
Jun 17, 2022, 10:19 AM
Reply

Things definitely are rarely as simple as the seem. Leggett had only one year left on his contract and wanted to coach it. He didn’t want to make an arbitrary change to his assistants just to throw red meat to idiots. When DRad left their meeting it was understood that Leggett would coach that final season on his terms and would have to pull a miracle to get a new contract. DRad then changed his mind and fired him anyway. So, yes, it was handled poorly.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Yes and no.


Jun 17, 2022, 10:25 AM
Reply

You seem to forget Jack did some things to stir the pot and made some comments after that meeting. And let’s be honest none of us can really know the entire truth because we weren’t sitting in those meetings.

That thing went sideways because both men handled it poorly. Now we have people wanting to rewrite history and make it sound like it was one-sided and Jack was the wounded and aggrieved party. That’s not how it happened!

2022 orange level member flag link

Re: Agreed, both sides could have handled it better...UofSuCk's

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 9:24 AM
Reply


success had a lot to do with JL's "release".




I believe JL was still at CU when the coots won their titles so the timeline does not fit your narrative.

JL seems unstable to me with an unhealthy connection to clemson plus an inability to accept reality. Having said that if GN thinks he needs a seat at the baseball table then I would support it.

flag link

Re: Agreed, both sides could have handled it better...UofSuCk's

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 10:37 AM
Reply

I think TM is suggesting that USC's success helped to expedite Coach Leggett's release, if not the outright cause of it.

2022 orange level member flag link

Jack got fired because Clemson baseball went to crap.


Jun 17, 2022, 12:02 PM
Reply

The fact that South Carolina embarrassed us twice in Omaha and then went on to win back to back championships a few years later was salt in the wound, but that’s not why Jack got fired! Anyone that thinks that needs their head examined. Just like anyone that thinks Jack wasn’t a part of the problem in regards to how it all played out at the end.

2022 orange level member flag link

Saying it went to crap is straight up stupid.***


Jun 17, 2022, 4:03 PM
Reply



badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

Dude you gotta let it go.


Jun 17, 2022, 7:48 PM
Reply

You clearly are on your knees for Jack. You’re embarrassing yourself.

Someone posted just a few days ago an excellent article on TNET from 2014 written by David Hood about the absolute collapse of Clemson baseball following the 2010 choke job in Omaha. And things declined further from there which is why Jack got fired.

You are blinded by your love of Jack and talking out your ### with revisionist history.

People overwhelmingly agree that Jack needed to be fired. The debate was never whether Jack should be fired, but people didn’t like how it got handled. Unfortunately Jack was a big part of the problem and why it got handled so poorly.

2022 orange level member flag link

There were plenty of low IQ "fans" who hoarded together***


Jun 17, 2022, 8:16 PM
Reply



badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

it completely supports it...JL got beat in the CWS by the

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 11:17 AM
Reply

coots; their success thus a factor in his dismissal.

2022 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link


Wrong wrong wrong!


Jun 17, 2022, 8:03 PM
Reply

What happened in Omaha had nothing to do with Jack getting fired. That was salt in the wound, but had nothing to do with him getting fired. The baseball program never recovered from the collapse in Omaha back in 2010. In 2014 David Hood wrote an article here on Tigernet talking about the collapse of the program. Someone posted that article a few days ago. What was going on in Columbia was pissing off the fans and it was salt in the wound but it had nothing to do with Jack getting fired.

2022 orange level member flag link

With this kind of emo blustering it's so hard to understand


Jun 17, 2022, 8:26 PM
Reply

why people have given you such a bad reputation with your pulse. I would think that such a reasonable fellow, with clear-minded points would be held in higher esteem by his peers.

badge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link

Re: Agreed, both sides could have handled it better...UofSuCk's


Jun 17, 2022, 8:09 PM
Reply

So DRad set expectations and JL did not meet them. He gave him another season to meet them and it did not happen. He offered a third season if JL was willing to make staff changes but no dice. JL was fired then proceeded to pitch a hissy fit disrespecting himself, the new coach and the game of baseball,

So how could DRad have handled it better?

flag link

Re: Agreed, both sides could have handled it better...UofSuCk's

[1]
Jun 17, 2022, 9:21 PM
Reply

If anything you said resembled reality you might have a point. Cobbox, when you are trying to get the new coach to treat you like an insider, you might want to keep it quiet that you think Leggett deserved to be fired. Because he didn’t. And he made it clear in the hiring process that Leggett would be welcomed back to the program. You’re looking at things from the outside in here and I hope it stays that way.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link

Replies: 32  

TIGER TICKETS

FB GAME: Louisiana Tech
FOR SALE: For Sale! 2 tickets for Clemson vs La Tech - Parent's Weekend! $80 per ticket. Sec Q, Row Y, Seats...

Buy or Sell CU Tickets and More in Tiger Tickets!

Tiger Boards - Clemson Baseball
add New Topic
Topics: Previous | Next
1843 people have read this post