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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Lots of accolades coming in for BV
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Oct 10, 2023, 2:00 AM
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This one caught my eye re: the balance of HS and Portal recruiting:
“ You have to give Brent Venables all the credit for OU's 365-day turnaround.
OU lost this game 49-0 in 2022 during the program's worst season in 20 years. OU then added the No. 6 class in the country + 17 transfers. Now, OU is CFB Playoff contender again.
Beyond impressive”
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Lots of accolades coming in for BV
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Oct 10, 2023, 2:28 AM
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It hard o not notice a big turn around for him. But I didn't realize he brought in so many transfers.
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Oculus Spirit [93685]
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The cupboards were bare.
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Oct 10, 2023, 4:32 AM
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Being that he didn't recruit and train any of the players on the team this season other than those of the last two recruiting cycles he did not have enough talent to function to his standards.
The transfer portal was a good option for him and I expect he may pick up a few more transfers in the coming season. Venables, being a great coach and a good man who is concerned with his players will be able to establish what he had at Clemson.
He will not be using the portal much over the long haul. Transfers into OU will diminish over the next couple years and may not have any more value to Brent than it does to Dabo.
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All-American [561]
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"He will not be using the portal much overall in the long haul"...
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:31 AM
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I guess you could argue "much" is a relative term but he has shown no indication of any reluctance to access the portal and logic dictates he will continue to follow this strategy if wants to remain in Norman. This wasn't a 2 year transfer rebuild because of a slight uptick in losses due to Riley's departure; this is CBV understanding the current climate of CFB and using his gifts as a recruiter to maximize OU's ability to acquire talent and fill holes on the roster with more immediacy.
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Freshman [-79]
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Hes dealing with a completely rebuilt roster.
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Oct 10, 2023, 1:09 PM
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He will ultimately get it going then recruit. He used it because he had to, and we will do the same.
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CU Guru [1858]
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All-American [561]
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Yes that's true...
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:10 AM
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but last year's transfer QB from UCF being healthy is also a huge factor. He stepped on OU campus already having had success in Lebby's system-
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CU Guru [1390]
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Re: Lots of accolades coming in for BV
Oct 10, 2023, 9:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Lots of accolades coming in for BV ] |
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OU will OU just like Texas pulled their Texas last week. Lost a lot of respect for Venables when he stole all of Clemson’s slogans. That was a classless act!
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All-In [44055]
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Looks like he stole our high level success too.***
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:32 AM
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Freshman [-79]
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Such a childish punk****
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Oct 10, 2023, 1:13 PM
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Legend [17804]
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But was a good response***
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Oct 10, 2023, 1:26 PM
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Legend [16158]
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Standout [307]
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Kudos to Coach V!
Oct 10, 2023, 7:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Lots of accolades coming in for BV ] |
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Sounds like learning the job and incorporating those lessons. Pretty sure that is why people want to work for/with the best in their respective businesses.
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Athletic Dir [865]
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Standout [340]
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If that was Secretariat
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Oct 10, 2023, 2:59 AM
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you’re beating, it would be one thing;
but your particular dead horse most recently came in 9th at a claiming race for hamburgers at Camden ‘s practice track.
But to say you look foolish is grossly disrespectful to virtually all the other fools before you, plus the McDonald’s McRib that nipped you at the wire.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: If that was Secretariat
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Oct 10, 2023, 10:37 AM
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OleMike,
Like Dabo said and I agree, "you don't worry about criticism from people that you wouldn't seek advice from."
Every War and Peace post you write tells us all who YOU really are...
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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Standout [340]
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as usual you dont even get the point:
Oct 10, 2023, 1:21 PM
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which is, why do you think Dabo should take advice from you, LOFL. He isn’t refusing me; he’s refusing the likes of you and Jester Keller.
Whether you listen to me is of no matter, old man. Why you have gone through life without the humility to listen to one of the best Coaches ever in CFB is quite another matter….
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: as usual you dont even get the point:
Oct 10, 2023, 1:24 PM
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Do you see any editorial comments from me in that post? I left it to the reader to interpret it for themselves. And the post was about what BV is doing and accomplishing and has nothing to do with Dabo. If you infer it did, then that is your interpretation, not mine.
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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Standout [340]
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Now youre just a liar.***
Oct 10, 2023, 2:37 PM
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Now youre just a liar.***
Oct 10, 2023, 3:01 PM
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I guess comprehension isn't your strong suit but that is not a surprise. You really do need to grow up.
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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Standout [340]
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like I said, just a liar***
Oct 11, 2023, 7:05 PM
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Recruit [75]
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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He saw deficiencies with his starting lineup........
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Oct 10, 2023, 6:55 AM
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and addressed them with the portal instead of only walk-ons and/or Freshmen........that's just common sense.
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Freshman [-79]
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No. He rebuilt a team with new guys..
Oct 10, 2023, 1:12 PM
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He didn’t use the portal to “plug a few holes”.
He doesn’t plan to bring in transfers like this every year, and it as sheer necessity this season. He will ultimately use the portal when there are absolute needs for a starter, just like we will.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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How could BV not see deficiencies?***
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Oct 10, 2023, 8:10 AM
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Standout [340]
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R U saying BVs situation was different than Dabos??
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Oct 10, 2023, 8:24 AM
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no kidding…
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110%er [6139]
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we've lost 23 the last 2 seasons
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Oct 10, 2023, 9:05 AM
[ in reply to How could BV not see deficiencies?*** ] |
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So comparably, we should have added 3-4 where deficiencies were identified. Maybe none were identified, and maybe that's the issue?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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23 is not the only number, it's a total as it relates to 85.
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Oct 10, 2023, 9:29 AM
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The team was at 87 after spring?
I know some people want Dabo to run players off, because other programs do it. Seems to be the go to reason with some? Of those, there have only been players that seem to have run themselves off: Chalmers, Priester, Page, Kendrick, Bellamy and on...
It's ok to want to use the portal more, I'm not opposed at all and have said so, but it would be nice if people were reasonable, equitable and fair enough to include the massive failures such as LSU, but that would be asking for a lot around here.
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110%er [6139]
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Re: 23 is not the only number, it's a total as it relates to 85.
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Oct 10, 2023, 9:37 AM
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I'm very reasonable when it comes to using the portal, make it limited to where there are holes. Like Bama has done. Our program is good shape overall, at least per recruiting rankings. The OL and WR talent is a clear deficiency. OL might be due to development? But something looks to be wrong there.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Not saying you're one, but a lot of people are suffering...
Oct 10, 2023, 9:54 AM
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from their own expectations of what their mind's eye was telling them it would be when Streeter was removed and Garrett Riley hired.
It's unfair to all involved, even to those that did it to themselves by applying the unrealistic loftiness.
Air Raid is not Garrett Riley and as far as I've seen in his coaching career, has never been, yet yesterday numerous Clemson fans still do not know this? It's baffling, but demic of this board and situations.
It's frustrating to me, guarded, that the offense started to show consistency in the FSU and Syracuse games and showed it could get deep when challenged by Cuse going 1 HIGH and playing press on the outside, only to revert some against Wake. I get it.
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Legend [19586]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Unfortunately Jrs, Srs & Super Srs have an extra year and
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Oct 10, 2023, 9:58 AM
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time to decide whether they're staying or going. The number that waited to decide and then returned seemed the issue. Glad to have them back, but every year it's a situation of often unknowns as those players are given the time to decide.
I'll be happy when the last super senior leaves cfb.
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Legend [19586]
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Those players decided to stay AFTER
Oct 10, 2023, 10:03 AM
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the freshman class was solidified so it had no bearing whatsoever on our decision to take 26 freshman as opposed to 20 and 6 portal players or any other combination.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Yes, that's the point and the why it put Clemson at 87.
Oct 10, 2023, 10:09 AM
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Dabo prefers going the HS route. If you don't like that Dabo doesn't use the portal more, that's ok, it's your prerogative.
I responded to 23 in 2 years by pointing out the 85 number, 87 was additive and because Dabo chose to go the HS route, there was no room or need at the Inn.
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Legend [19586]
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So the point RC Tiger made stands
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Oct 10, 2023, 10:57 AM
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We've lost over 10 players to the portal each of the last 2 seasons and have only taken 2 non-contributors so the argument that Oklahoma is a "different situation" is not at all accurate. Only different in terms of #s.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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correct! it's a math/numbers issue when it comes to......
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:19 AM
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replacing experienced starters and/or depth with true freshman and/or walk-ons.
some need 15 schollie fillers.............some need 3-5 or somewhere in between, the situation is the same........the numbers/ratios are different.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Clemson has filled its needs, save 2 QBs, through HS...
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:20 AM
[ in reply to So the point RC Tiger made stands ] |
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recruiting. That's Dabo choice. Clemson reportedly offered 2 front-liners, an OL & CB, one to Michigan, the other to FSU.
Number Out + Number In !> 85.
Dabo has not lost 60 transfers in 3 years or 41 in 2[plus normal attrition], the situations are not the same as Dabo has an established program that was able to replace up to the 85 number through HS recruiting. His choice, no sweat, you don't have to like it and I believe anyone that spends time here knows you don't or that you want to use it more than Dabo currently does.
Good thing for BV, Colorado and others that have suffered such severe losses, they lifted the 25 limit in 2022, because he was able to bring in 35, if not he's at least 10 short, which is the real issue there and resulted from those severe losses.
Not the same, not remotely. One coach scrambling to make the 85 number and lucky the rule was lifted, one over because he had experienced, talented players with other options come back, never a concern for reaching the 85 limit other than being over.
What will be interesting because of the mess the portal has created, the 85 # highs/lows, is the NC2A has decided to eliminate the 25 per cycle limit going forward, maintaining only the 85 limit in FBS.
Hopefully the NC2A starts spending some energy on the thousands that are shipwrecked in the portal each year. The need to put some thought into the decision to leave for the greeners, because they are young, easily swayed by the pretty lights and hollow promise of that wasteland, calls for a balance of checks or pause.
And I'm sorry, but different is different, anything else is patently stupid.
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Legend [19586]
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Replacing 10-15 1, 2 and 3 year experienced depth players
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:27 AM
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every year with true freshman is patently stupid.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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If I had a concern, and I've stated it a number of times...
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:50 AM
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it was the possible hole in Dabo's pay it forward culture that may suffer from some losses, and that won't be filled by outsiders or freshman - not being a part of it I don't know how much might be lost because of it? The reason I say some losses, is Clemson may be losing to the portal some of the players people wish Dabo would walk to the door as a matter of course, those in the Love Shack and under performers? It seems as though the portal is heaven sent for that element's cause.
Clemson isn't losing front-liners, save a Mike Jones Jr, Malcolm Green, other?, but practice in my experience is important, so there certainly could be an impact there. Again, 5% of the information, it's only an opinion at that point. Not being there, you've a right to yours, but I doubt Dabo isn't aware of any issue as he has all the information.
One patently stupid person to the other, you and Dabo can hash it out? I know how you feel.
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Legend [19586]
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I've met my quota on the number of patently stupid people
Oct 10, 2023, 1:19 PM
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to argue with today, unfortunately. Maybe another time....
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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You'd argue with a sign...
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Oct 10, 2023, 1:28 PM
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and take the wrong road home.
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Legend [19586]
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You and DSP spend a whole lot more time arguing on Tigernet
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Oct 10, 2023, 1:28 PM
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than I. But go on.....
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Told you.***
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Oct 10, 2023, 1:30 PM
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All-American [561]
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"2 non-contributors"....
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Oct 10, 2023, 3:25 PM
[ in reply to So the point RC Tiger made stands ] |
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your being too kind. But more accurately, in consecutive seasons in 1-off fashion displayed precisely how not to use the portal to your advantage. Essentially burning 2 ships on 5th string QB GA's who'll never play a snap of any import. Did/Do they dress out? Travel?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Who said there hasn't been "failures"?
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Oct 10, 2023, 9:55 AM
[ in reply to 23 is not the only number, it's a total as it relates to 85. ] |
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I think it's a massive compliment to think that if Dabo would put his mind to it he could probably "portal" better than any coach in the country..............and NO that's not saying he has to "run players off". It's simple MATH, numbers, & common sense.
you lose 8-10 per year for 5 years (regardless of position and/or impact) those sudden open schollies are getting kicked to ONE of TWO players..........next freshman class (forever young) and/or walk-ons.
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All-In [44055]
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Agreed. Plus, there are ways to encourage people to leave
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Oct 10, 2023, 10:02 AM
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with out "running them off."
Having a candid conversation with a player who hasn't improved as expected, and isn't moving up the depth chart, to let him know that he probably won't get much if any playing time if he stays, is a far cry from telling a guy that he doesn't have a scholarship anymore. The former approach is being honest, and the latter is truly "running them off."
Many guys will transfer after being informed that they are unlikely to play. My hunch is that Dabo doesn't tell them that though. Instead, he probably tells them that they are doing well and that they are an important part of the team and will be counted on. I don't think he would do this to mislead them, but because he wants to see them remain part of the team and fulfill a role, even if it's to support the others and be a good teammate.
To your point, we lose plenty of players every year as-is, leaving room for us to use the portal to address needs.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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You understand pointing out the reason why BV...
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Oct 10, 2023, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to we've lost 23 the last 2 seasons ] |
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used the portal is not an attack on using the portal?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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is there a magic number?
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Oct 10, 2023, 8:28 AM
[ in reply to OU lost ~60 players to transfer since '21... ] |
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Dabo's lost an average of 8.4/year the last 5 years, that's roughly a third of a recruiting class EACH YEAR.
the last 3 years Dabo's lost an average of 10.3.
The only incoming portal players has been 2 non impact QBs that rarely/never see the field.
2019 - 7
2020 - 4
2021 - 8
2022 - 11
2023 - 12
And to your point that's not counting "normal attrition". Regardless of position or impact on depth, the numbers are the concern. When you lose ~8-10 players per year (mostly veteran) and replace them with true freshman and/or walk-ons it starts to show if that trend continues not only will we be "forever young" you'll see similar struggles that we've grown accustomed to the last 3-4 years.
Of course every team has different circumstances...........some need 60 players...........some need 15................some need 3-5 "key players/positions" (i'd put Clemson in the 3-5 category). No need to Colorado the portal yet.
Back to my question. What is the "magic number"?
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Standout [340]
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the best player weve lost based on production elsewhere
Oct 10, 2023, 8:32 AM
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was Chaz Mellusi.
Neither was he an ETN, nor did we miss a beat with our current 2-headed monster at RB.
It seems you have no point….
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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no, I have a point, you just don't get it.......
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Oct 10, 2023, 8:33 AM
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nor do you "do math"
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Standout [340]
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you continue to insist that you have a point, and you tote
Oct 10, 2023, 6:45 PM
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your little posse around.
Pretty much describes the Pied Piper and not someone who knows anything about football. Again, if Dabo agreed with you, then it would be worthwhile continuing to beat that drum. Otherwise, pretty much "no".
And given the fact that I passed the CPA and CMA exams many years ago, and am also a Six Sigma Black Belt, you can bet your sweet patootie that my Math is just fine.....
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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The situations !=, not remotely and suggesting in anyway...
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Oct 10, 2023, 8:42 AM
[ in reply to is there a magic number? ] |
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if only slightly that they may be is a lie.
You don't like how little Dabo has used the portal, fine, but you're still the same non-contributing poster that if he had his way years ago, would have never witnessed this.
If you had an ounce of integrity, you'd stop crying and let the man coach, because you could not have been more wrong.
Have a good day.
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Legend [16992]
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Re: The situations !=, not remotely and suggesting in anyway...
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Oct 10, 2023, 8:54 AM
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This ^^^
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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No, you've no integrity & are not entitled to another...
Oct 10, 2023, 9:22 AM
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I can type slower, or put it in crayon if it will help, but that would only reaffirm my position.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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you have no opinion.....that's cool........WWDD***
Oct 10, 2023, 9:39 AM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Freshman [-79]
TigerPulse: 66%
Posts: 4600
Joined: 12/21/21
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All-In [44055]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32968
Joined: 2/22/03
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In just one year, they got a lot better. They have even passed us.***
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Oct 10, 2023, 9:07 AM
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Orange Blooded [2136]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1837
Joined: 10/22/13
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Re: Lots of accolades coming in for BV
Oct 10, 2023, 9:23 AM
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People here in Oklahoma were ready to fire him last year. But it's obvious to anyone who is objective that he needed time to get his guys in there, he was a pretty big change from lincoln riley in his philosophy.
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110%er [5961]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5688
Joined: 7/3/12
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It is very good to see him succeed after only 1 year
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:04 AM
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what a rough first year, and to not only be more competitive but beating a very good Texas team is very impressive.
With Clemson not really being in the CFP this season, and as much as I have always disliked Oklahoma, I actually want to see Coach BV succeed and seeing them in playoffs and winning it about as good as it will get for me.
Then Clemson coming back to prominence next year and battling Oklahoma next year in CFP. Now that would be awesome!!
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Orange Blooded [4306]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 3170
Joined: 11/7/22
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He did it at Clemson too
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Oct 10, 2023, 1:39 PM
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we were not elite level good until he came to Clemson
we are not elite level good now that he left Clemson
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Legend [19586]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 17257
Joined: 7/25/07
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I keep seeing this argument
Oct 10, 2023, 1:41 PM
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But to play devil's advocate we were not elite level his last year at Clemson either and our defense this year is better than our defense in 2021.
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Legend [18308]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7029
Joined: 10/15/21
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Re: He did it at Clemson too
Oct 10, 2023, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to He did it at Clemson too ] |
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Yeah we were super duper elite against LSU and OSU
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