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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Ken Ard made some good points about voter fraud
Jan 25, 2017, 9:13 AM
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On his radio show this morning (Ken may be a coot but i like the guy)I'm paraphrasing but some of his quotes were
1. "Only 150 people were cited for jaywalking in St. Louis last year. Do you really believe only 150 people jaywalked the entire year in a city the size of St Louis?"
2. "140,000 people were cited for not wearing a seatbelt in the state of Tennessee in 2014. Do you really think they caught everyone who wasn't wearing their seatbelt?"
3. "In 2012, only 40,000 people were cited for not wearing a seatbelt in the state of Tennessee. "
Notice 2 and 3. When Tennessee made an effort to "catch" people not wearing seatbelts, that number went up.
4. "Drugs make their way up 95 from Florida to New York everyday. Some people are busted on the drive. Many are not or there wouldn't be drugs getting to New York from Florida or vice versa."
I can't help but wonder how much fraud is truly going on when put in that perspective.
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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I've asked this many times before.
Jan 25, 2017, 9:16 AM
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If you don't catch voter fraud, how do you know how prevalent it is?
I'm not saying Trump is right or wrong, but to me saying that there is statistically no voter fraud seems disingenuous at best, when there is no real way to tell.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: I've asked this many times before.
Jan 25, 2017, 9:21 AM
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I've had a prosecutor tell me (and to point out, a Democrat) That they just don't prosecute voter fraud. Not a big enough deal and not pushed by the government.
If it were pushed, prosecutors would have no choice but to pursue it.
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All-In [49198]
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Couldn't you say that about almost any uncommon crime?
Jan 25, 2017, 10:47 AM
[ in reply to I've asked this many times before. ] |
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Hey, do we really know how often that happens unless we pass a bunch of new laws about it?
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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uncommon crime?
Jan 25, 2017, 10:51 AM
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I'm not sure what that is. After man has been around as long as we have, are there any uncommon crimes?
In our information age, it doesn't seem like voting should be as difficult as it is. We trust our money to computers, but not votes? I don't even understand that.
It seems to revolve around getting and having an ID to prove who you are. And I don't know of anything as important as voting that doesn't require an ID. Heck..you have to have a license and ID to go fishing (legally).
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All-In [49198]
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uncommon crime was shorthand but not a good one
Jan 25, 2017, 11:31 AM
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Voter fraud seems to be something that would be accomplished a couple of ways. One, by computer, which seems like the easiest and simplest way I would think. To do so with actual illegal voters, you would have to find someone who is eligible to vote or who would be ineligible that you could illegally register to vote, then send someone to the precinct where that person votes and have them cast a vote in that person's name.
The logistics of that seem daunting. You couldn't send the same person over and over and over to the voter registration office to register different people because eventually they would be recognized as a repeat customer. To accomplish it on a large scale you would have to be way more organized than either of the major parties it seems like.
Do you have to have an ID for fishing? I know you have to have a license, but I'm not sure they care about a photo ID do they?
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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You have to have an ID to get the license.
Jan 25, 2017, 12:50 PM
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And if I can buy a car over the internet, I should be able to vote that way. Seems like that would be easier.
Your name would be on an active list of eligible voters, and once you vote, its counted, and you don't get to vote again. There's even an IP address to give a location as to where your vote was placed.
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Oculus Spirit [94230]
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Re: Ken Ard made some good points about voter fraud
Jan 25, 2017, 9:18 AM
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Stats are practical when to predict. When they are used for political purposes they are spin or spun, often with the intention to deceive. No, most of the time stats are deceptive. Thus 'alternate facts,' become a reality.
Was that Ken's point?
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Ken Ard made some good points about voter fraud
Jan 25, 2017, 9:51 AM
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You got Trump claiming up to 5 million, others claiming 0. I don't think it's even close to 5 million but it's a lot more than 0
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Legend [18026]
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who's saying zero?
Jan 25, 2017, 10:50 AM
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I remember a story about a women Trump supporter who got arrested for voter fraud during the election make the news (maybe that was just liberal news, though  )
Point is, the argument I've seen is that while fraud happens, it's incredibly rare and not to the point of 5 million, which is absurd.
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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How do you know?
Jan 25, 2017, 10:52 AM
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And not you, personally, but anyone? How do we know that to be true?
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Legend [18026]
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where's the evidence it's happening to that large degree?
Jan 25, 2017, 11:13 AM
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I think 5 million illegal voters would be pretty obvious to find evidence. Maybe not, but where is Trump getting that number from? Where is the evidence for his claim?
There is a study that found about 31 cases of voter fraud in a billion votes, which is the only evidence I've seen on either side of this topic.
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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No idea where he is getting that number from.
Jan 25, 2017, 12:52 PM
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And I don't necessarily agree or disagree with him. But to blindly state its not happening seems disingenuous. Maybe it warrants investigating. Has there ever been an official investigation to it?
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Hall of Famer [22405]
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The Pew Study of 2012 That your boy Trump referenced
Jan 25, 2017, 11:42 AM
[ in reply to How do you know? ] |
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shows that while there are housekeeping issues on voter registration lists involving clearing names of deceased and those who have moved to other districts or states, they found no evidence that voter fraud resulted.
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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"my boy"? lulz***
Jan 25, 2017, 12:53 PM
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: who's saying zero?
Jan 25, 2017, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to who's saying zero? ] |
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Considering I'm pretty liberal, I probably read that same liberal news site. ??
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Hall of Famer [22405]
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"Voter fraud" is a canard to rationalize voter suppression
Jan 25, 2017, 9:52 AM
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efforts and justify those efforts in the minds of the 1/3 of voters that will believe anything their side says no matter what the truth is.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: "Voter fraud" is a canard to rationalize voter suppression
Jan 25, 2017, 10:13 AM
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All-In [31938]
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and people that claim requiring an ID to vote is...
Jan 25, 2017, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to "Voter fraud" is a canard to rationalize voter suppression ] |
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voter suppression are FOS.
There are some other things that have been attempted that might be an attempt to suppress votes, but not requiring ID.
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Hall of Famer [22405]
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Disallowing certain forms of ID while not allowing student
Jan 25, 2017, 10:31 AM
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IDs while allowing gun permits, reducing and eliminating where valid IDs can be obtained, restricting operating hours, not allowing same day registration, reducing voter registration days prior to elections, making it difficult for out of state students to get IDs, changing polling places at the last minute, changing and reducing voting hours, eliminating early voting days, eliminating multi-lingual voting assistance...
Anybody who claims that requiring IDs is all this is about are FOS.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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Can you have a gun permit as a non citizen?
Jan 25, 2017, 10:52 AM
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How about a student ID?
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Lot o points [156102]
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shhhh, he's on a roll.***
Jan 25, 2017, 11:10 AM
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Legend [18026]
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You even had pub's admitting it's about race
Jan 25, 2017, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to Disallowing certain forms of ID while not allowing student ] |
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And suppressing their votes. And courts saying the same thing. The pub's even did a study to find out what kinds of IDs minorities didn't have and then required that ID. It's one of the more obvious political ploys in recent years. I can't see any defense of it, especially when you consider the type of voter fraud it fights isn't even the kind that happens most often. It quite literally supresses the vote.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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What pubs were admitting it's about race?
Jan 25, 2017, 11:05 AM
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Maybe there were some, but most would say it's common sense. Is it not racist to assume minorities do not possess the capabilities to acquire ID's that you have to have for a slew of other transactions in life? Are you saying minorities are too stupid, or what?
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Legend [18026]
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It's pretty common sense.
Jan 25, 2017, 11:29 AM
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To not be for something that 1.) Doesn't fix the problem it's supposed to fix (wrong type of voter fraud) and 2.) Is worse the problem it "fixes" (vote fraud is rare, voter ID suppresses more votes) to me makes it's common sense to be against it. Where is the argument for it?
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Legend [18026]
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Oh, forgot this:
Jan 25, 2017, 11:30 AM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html
In April of this year, Representative Glenn Grothman, Republican of Wisconsin, predicted in a television interview that the state’s photo ID law would weaken the Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s chances of winning the state in November’s election.
It was not the first time he cited voter ID requirements’ impact on Democrats; in 2012, speaking about the law’s effect on President Obama’s re-election race, Mr. Grothman said voter ID requirements hurt Democrats because Democratic voters cheat more often — a premise that remains unproven. One of the few verified instances of recent voter fraud at a Wisconsin polling place — the only kind of fraud that a photo ID might prevent — padded a Republican governor’s tally.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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But you don't really know how rare voter fraud is
Jan 25, 2017, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to It's pretty common sense. ] |
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Why do we have to have ID's for anything then? Again, how does it suppress votes, are you saying these people are incapable of procuring something that is required for an untold amount of activities? In some places, even illegals can get drivers licenses, yet there's some other poor downtrodden group that can't?
Where is the argument for it? Uh, well, to provide evidence that you are, in fact, who you're purporting to be so that you can vote. Especially considering the fact that we have a HUGE illegal immigration problem. That's what some would call....logical.
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Lot o points [156102]
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That's why this NC bill was probably useless in the first
Jan 25, 2017, 11:46 AM
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place.....
At one time, NC was the easiest state in the nation for a non-citizen to get a driver's license and a vehicle registration. You'd show up at the DMV and there would be a bunch of interpreters outside standing around taking people through the process for a fee. There was a town in NJ at one point who noticed the mass of NC plates on local vehicles, and discovered that there were people running 15 passenger church vans down to NC to get plates and licenses for illegals.
All of which is to say that in NC, a drivers' license is a pretty useless instrument to prevent voter fraud.
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Legend [18026]
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It's a burden, no matter what you think of that burden
Jan 25, 2017, 11:47 AM
[ in reply to But you don't really know how rare voter fraud is ] |
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the evidence is quite clear that burden suppresses the vote and targets minorities.
"The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration."
"Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/
It's not just about having an ID it was about what type of IDs to target. It also targets a type of fraud that doesn't happen (based on what we know), as absentee voting has the largest amount of voter fraud that's been found (shockingly, absentee voting has a larger number of white voters)
Republicans certainly used a type of "logic" on this, you're right.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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Well for starters, you don't know if it happens or not
Jan 25, 2017, 12:45 PM
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So are you OK with using ID's, as long as it doesn't restrict which type? Maybe limit absentee voting? You're also talking about one specific states bill, I'm talking about just requiring ID's in general. The idea that requiring an ID to vote somehow suppresses a group of people is silly.
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Legend [18026]
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This is similar to our border wall discussion
Jan 25, 2017, 4:10 PM
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I think the evidence is pretty clear that both the wall and Voter IDs won't work and initiating them will be a complete boondoggle. Ironically, both also represent everything Conservatives/Republicans say they hate: waste of money, ineffective Government, and loss of freedom.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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Showing an ID to vote is somehow a loss of freedom? LOL
Jan 25, 2017, 4:20 PM
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You can make the case that a wall would be a waste of money, or potentially ineffective(of course it would by itself without further measures, but that's not the discussion here), but to say requiring an ID to vote is somehow a waste of money or represents ineffective government is just....silly.
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Legend [18026]
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Truth can be silly
Jan 25, 2017, 4:28 PM
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The most common type of voter fraud is found in absentee voting. VoterID doesn't do anything to fight absentee voting fruad, so it's ineffective. And yes, I doubt it'd be anywhere near a waste of money as building Trump Wall, you're right about that. But, there is some cost in both money and time to pay these senators and personnel to write the rules and waste government time. But, no, I wouldn't argue that cost is the main argument against voterID.
And when I argue against VoterID, I'm more arguing against the actual plans and not the broad idea of IDs. The laws were extremely targeted ones and the purpose behind them was far from silly.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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It's ineffective at combating one type of voter fraud
Jan 25, 2017, 4:40 PM
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That doesn't mean it's ineffective in general. I'm not arguing the specific plans, I'm arguing that it should be required, which to me, is just common sense.
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Legend [18026]
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Voter fraud is incredibly rare.
Jan 25, 2017, 4:47 PM
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And voterID laws would "prevent" an even smaller number of those cases. Which you have to weigh against the loss in votes because of the requirement (which would also be small, but I'd argue one vote suppressed more than prevented in fraud makes the law invalid.)
http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification
"The 11 percent of eligible voters who lack the required photo ID..."
If you can show that voter fraud (based on voter impersonation) is a bigger problem than around that 11%, then you're argument could work. That's just common sense.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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You keep saying it's so rare, but how do you know?
Jan 25, 2017, 5:03 PM
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You're trying to tell me the honor system of just being who you say you are is not being abused? Maybe it isn't, but knowing human nature, I'd be shocked. It would be the first time in the history of the world, actually. Requiring an ID to vote is not suppressing anyone, give me a break. If someone can't get make it to the DMV or wherever to get an ID(that legally must be free per your link), how are they making it to the voting booth? The whole premise is just absurd.
It's not a big deal to require ID, because there is no functioning human being in this country that doesn't have at least some sort of identification, and if they can't even so much as make it somewhere to receive a free ID, how ##### are they going to go vote? I also perused your link, where are they deriving that 11% from?
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Legend [18026]
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There's more evidence that says it rarely happens
Jan 25, 2017, 6:13 PM
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than evidence to your argument (one of assumption) that the system is currently being abused. So, we'll have to disagree on that I guess. (Since despite a lack of evidence, you seem pretty convinced there is widespread voter fraud)
You also say this: If someone can't get make it to the DMV or wherever to get an ID(that legally must be free per your link), how are they making it to the voting booth? The whole premise is just absurd.
I'd say not everyone drives themselves (elderly, poor) so I'm not sure I'd agree with your argument there. At least to the point of saying it was "absurd."
As for your last paragraph, the point was that they targeted certain IDs (as well as other voting practices). It wasn't a broadly implemented plan as your point about everyone having some sort of identification pivots on.
As for the 11% number, I'm sure its included in the study.
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Lot o points [156102]
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Where do you get this absentee ballot claim?
Jan 25, 2017, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to Truth can be silly ] |
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Here is one...just one....investigation in NYC. Scroll to page 12.
They were able to successfully vote as dead people or felons 61 out of 63 times...again, only turned away twice.
It would seem that if you think that 31 number is accurate, it's either because you really, really want it to be true, or you really, really know it's not.
http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doi/downloads/pdf/2013/dec13/BOE_Unit_Report12-30-2013.pdf
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Legend [18026]
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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Everything is a "burden"
Jan 25, 2017, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to It's a burden, no matter what you think of that burden ] |
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Waiting in line at the polls is a burden. Just leaving work and getting there is a burden.
And ID is required to get on an airplane, cash a check, deposit a check..pretty much anything "official". It doesn't make sense to me why voting should be excluded from that.
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Legend [18026]
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Are those Government driven ideas that burden all equally?
Jan 25, 2017, 4:19 PM
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They aren't.
Again, State Governments required specific types of Voter ID over others based on the race that used them, got rid of voting methods that minorities used more than whites, and were found to be in violation of rights by the court. That's the evidence you would have to wash away to make a counter argument. You are welcome to do so, but I'm not.
But forget that argument. Argue why voter ID is a valuable tool in fighting voter fraud when all studies on the subject (that I can find anyways) say that it doesn't impact the most common type of voter fraud--absentee voting? Why did states specifically target voter ID if it's not effective at stopping voter fraud?
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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Well it's obvious.
Jan 25, 2017, 4:29 PM
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Per Chuckston T-man, white people in the south hate blacks because slavery and 1860.
/thread.
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Legend [18026]
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lol, just to be clear here:
Jan 25, 2017, 4:32 PM
[ in reply to Are those Government driven ideas that burden all equally? ] |
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the idea of standing in lines and driving to vote are not government driven ideas that target their "burden" at only specific groups. Everyone shares those same burdens, or their circumstance causes the burden not government involvement.
I got ahead of myself and didn't reread to make sure I didn't screw up my point. Which, of course, I did. (However minor a point it may be)
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Lot o points [156102]
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Legend [18026]
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Sure tastes like it...
Jan 25, 2017, 11:23 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/29/politics/north-carolina-voter-id/
"The court found that the North Carolina legislature enacted the provisions after it gathered data on the use, by race, of certain voting practices.
The provisions "target African-Americans with almost surgical precision" and "impose cures for problems that did not exist," the judges wrote.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/
"The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration."
"Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”
"The state offered little justification for the law, the court said. Those who defended the law said they were doing so to prevent voter fraud. “Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist,” the court said."
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Lot o points [156102]
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Horrible article indeed and certainly casts a bad light.
Jan 25, 2017, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Can you show me that study? I'd love to see it. It's ] |
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I was genuinely curious though about the study....what did they ask to get these ID types? How did they survey it?
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Legend [18026]
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Don't think it was an actual study as much as information
Jan 25, 2017, 11:38 AM
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from voting records which they then used to form the basis of their bill.
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Lot o points [156102]
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Do they keep track of what type of ID you use when you
Jan 25, 2017, 11:41 AM
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vote? I'm not sure how they'd track that to then be able to whittle it down to "whites only" methods?
When I voted in NC years ago, you showed up, told them your name and address with no ID required, and they said "go on in". There was no form of ID to even track.
Again, not disputing there was probably some ill intent here, much like gerrymandering, but I just don't get how they gleaned information needed to surgically ban certain types of ID's.
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Legend [18026]
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I'd have to look into that part more, but...
Jan 25, 2017, 11:49 AM
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the evidence seems pretty clear that they were able to get that information (the breadth of the things they targeted clearly points to the quality of information which was given to them on this topic)
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Walk-On [149]
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Re: I'd have to look into that part more, but...
Jan 25, 2017, 11:59 AM
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Why does he only want to investigate in 2 States. Why doesn't he go all out and do all 50 + DC?
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Hall of Famer [22405]
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Exactly, but this is all part of the fake news narrative
Jan 25, 2017, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to You even had pub's admitting it's about race ] |
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that is used so effectively in Republican circles to mislead the (willingly?)gullible.
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Oculus Spirit [79454]
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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All-In [31938]
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First...I was pretty clear there were other issues outside..
Jan 25, 2017, 7:42 PM
[ in reply to Disallowing certain forms of ID while not allowing student ] |
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of ID's in my OP. Perhaps you can re-read.
Second...unless something is drastically different in how student ID's are issued, I sure as heck understand why they wouldn't be allowed. When I was at CU, getting a new student ID required very little and was often times issued by other students working. Many/most college and universities are not government institutions.
They are not much different than an ID you would get issued from your employer.
And what frigg'n college student doesn't have a government issued ID?!? Toothless argument in my book.
And gun permits? They're issued by the government...why is that even a remote comparison to student IDs?
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Oculus Spirit [94230]
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They also love illegals flocking to...
Jan 25, 2017, 1:09 PM
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their sanctuary too.
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All-In [46871]
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You mean the same guy
Jan 25, 2017, 11:01 AM
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who had to resign due to an ethics violation?
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CU Guru [1482]
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Re: You mean the same guy
Jan 25, 2017, 11:09 AM
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People barely get off their butts to vote at all, much less to vote illegally.
Comparing voting to seatbelt wearing or jaywalking isn't just apples to oranges, it's more like apples to lightbulbs.
No wonder the guy's a coot.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: You mean the same guy
Jan 25, 2017, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to You mean the same guy ] |
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Hey, hey he is your hometown guy lol
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All-In [46871]
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Negative
Jan 25, 2017, 1:11 PM
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he's from across the river
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Negative
Jan 25, 2017, 1:12 PM
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Pamplico area, I believe?
Same county, tho. ??
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All-In [48078]
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We should redo the election since 3.5 million
Jan 25, 2017, 1:04 PM
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votes were fraudulent as Trump stated. Obviously we can't accept these election results. Maybe Trump is correct.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: We should redo the election since 3.5 million
Jan 25, 2017, 1:08 PM
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As long as Hillary can't run, I'm game
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All-In [48078]
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True*****
Jan 25, 2017, 1:10 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94230]
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Trump is ordering an investigation into this.
Jan 25, 2017, 1:10 PM
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Wrong or right this will give America more confidence in our voting system.
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All-In [48078]
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What you are missing is that there hae been extensive...
Jan 25, 2017, 1:34 PM
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investigations in the past. They did one a few years back and they found that out of a billion votes over a certain time period that they could prove or found about 30 cases of provable voter fraud. It's been done. Trump's claims of over 3.5 million cases in this last election alone is about as kooky as it gets. It's like the people that think we attacked our own towers on 9/11 or that we never landed on the moon. It's laughably kooky. Even the Republican politicians generally think it is way out there, and they have said as much over and over n the news this morning. John McCain couldn't help but laugh when he was asked about it this morning.
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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Our DOJ has had an investigation into this?
Jan 25, 2017, 1:37 PM
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When?
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All-In [48078]
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Has our DOJ ever looked into voter fraud?
Jan 25, 2017, 1:41 PM
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Was that a real question? Of course they have investigated voter fraud before. Moreover, Trump thinks there were over 3.5 million cases. That is laughably stupid.
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Oculus Spirit [81249]
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When? I googled it, and couldn't find anything.
Jan 25, 2017, 1:43 PM
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Maybe I'm google impaired.
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Lot o points [156102]
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I'm trying to decide whether to believe Carlsbad, or my
Jan 25, 2017, 4:28 PM
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own lying eyes.
Like I said earlier, when I voted in NC, you showed up and told them your name and address. No ID, nuthin'. They looked on the precinct list, and if someone with the name you gave them lived at that address on their records, and that address was in the precinct, they'd show you to the booth. Translation---anyone with a phone book could vote as often as they wanted.
Every.single.election I or someone I knew would show up to check in and find that someone had already checked in with our names. Every time. Happened to me twice alone and it was a PITA. With roughly 40-60% voter participation in most elections, that's a ton of instances that wouldn't have gotten caught.
This is one little precinct, in one city, with a sample size consisting of just people I knew. It's asinine to expect anyone to believe that it only happened 30 times or whatever he was claiming on a national basis.
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All-In [48078]
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3 to 5 milion? Trump is out there.
Jan 26, 2017, 5:09 AM
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He is on it in many other issues, but on this issue he has lost his noodle.
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All-In [48078]
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Re: Ken Ard made some good points about voter fraud
Jan 25, 2017, 1:49 PM
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1. "Only 150 people were cited for jaywalking in St. Louis last year. Do you really believe only 150 people jaywalked the entire year in a city the size of St Louis?"
Do you believe anyone gives a fuq about jaywalking?
2. "140,000 people were cited for not wearing a seatbelt in the state of Tennessee in 2014. Do you really think they caught everyone who wasn't wearing their seatbelt?"
Do you believe there are enough cops to pull everyone over?
3. "In 2012, only 40,000 people were cited for not wearing a seatbelt in the state of Tennessee. "
Notice 2 and 3. When Tennessee made an effort to "catch" people not wearing seatbelts, that number went up.
4. "Drugs make their way up 95 from Florida to New York everyday. Some people are busted on the drive. Many are not or there wouldn't be drugs getting to New York from Florida or vice versa."
I can't help but wonder how much fraud is truly going on when put in that perspective.
I CAN'T HELP NOTICE THERE ARE POLL WORKERS AT EVERY VOTING BOOTH IN AMERICA.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Ken Ard made some good points about voter fraud
Jan 25, 2017, 3:45 PM
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Did you really miss the point Ard was making or is my meter broken?
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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You think millions of people voted illegally
Jan 25, 2017, 5:25 PM
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that requires coordination and competency between state and city agencies never seen in the history of man kind!
There's a reason the STATES control the votes! This is why there are so many voting areas! This is SO EFFING STUPID to think that MILLIONS voted illegally. Could mistakes be made? YES. But not the level of MILLIONS of FRAUDELENT VOTES. Trump is making you DUMB.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: You think millions of people voted illegally
Jan 25, 2017, 5:30 PM
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Can you read? Yet, you're calling me dumb?
I said clearly that I don't think even close to 5 million votes were cast fraudently, but i also believe the number is far greater than 0.
Btw, I didn't vote for Trump and don't care for Trump. The OP was about Ken Ard.
But, td for the personal attack.
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Oculus Spirit [83164]
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I know a lot is committed by snow birds who
Jan 25, 2017, 5:50 PM
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vote in Cleveland and than drive to their 2nd home in Naples Florida and vote again.
We a national voting database.
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