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All-In [42170]
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It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:09 AM
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When a 20-year disaster concludes under that admin. And don't get me wrong--the Biden admin should shoulder a healthy dose of this blame. But any political fingerpointing is absurd. This is a bipartisan failure stretching over four administrations.
We tried to nationbuild a country that has proven a historical failure in that sense, then we diverted crucial resources from it to the pointless Iraq war (another failure). We had no real exit strategy. We overestimated their people's ability to defend the country.
We had to get out of Afghanistan, and the stage was set for failure in that regard. Again, the Biden administration has handled it #### poorly. But even if Trump had pulled us out, he would have been set up for failure, too. Hell, maybe he had the sense to stay away from this.
But after all those servicemen and women lost or wounded, all the billions of dollars spent, all the U.S. military equipment now in the hands of bad guys, all the stupid Toby Keith songs, all the bravado and chest thumping of half-men on this board years ago, all waste... where does that leave us now?
We cannot nationbuild and try to force American democracy down the throats of a nation whose majority doesn't grasp the concepts or what makes it special. We've failed at it too many times, but it's been great at letting certain individuals war profiteer off of these endeavors (if you think THAT didn't have a major factor in Afghanistan and Iraq, it's time for a little more research).
This is a failure of the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden admins. Honestly, of those four, I might blame Trump the least. And it was a tremendous moneymaker for others in our nation.
Trying to lay the blame on this of one president or political party is simple, base partisan hackery. They all shoulder the blame, and we play into their games when we blame just one of them.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:12 AM
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Nobody is trying to blame for the entire time we have been in Afghanistan (although he was also the VP for 8 of those years)
People are blaming him for the absolutely dismal withdrawal plan (if there even was one) also again, Biden said that this wouldn't happen 2 weeks ago. So he was either lying or incompetent.
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All-In [42170]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:13 AM
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Being VP didn't matter as that position is mostly pointless, with the exception of Cheney's influence which helped get us into this mess.
Yes, it was an absolutely abysmal withdrawal, but it was 20 years in the making. The Biden admin ###### it up; others should be thrown in this blame game for getting us here.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:22 AM
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Being VP didn't matter as that position is mostly pointless, with the exception of Cheney's influence which helped get us into this mess.
Yes, it was an absolutely abysmal withdrawal, but it was 20 years in the making. The Biden admin ###### it up; others should be thrown in this blame game for getting us here.
Yes Biden is not to blame for us being in afghanistan in the first place. Just as previous presidents aren't to blame for this botched withdrawal. That is all on Biden. Was he out in a ooor position? Sure, but this withdrawal is on him. I don't quite understand why we are playing this deflection game to cover for Biden. You are bringing ip a non-existent argument to cover for sleepy.I have not heard a single person blame Biden for us being there.
You would also have a much different reaction if this was trump. That is guaranteed
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All-In [42170]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:25 AM
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You would also have a much different reaction if this was trump. That is guaranteed
Guess you missed the part where I said I put the least blame on Trump admin. Reading the whole post helps.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:41 AM
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You would also have a much different reaction if this was trump. That is guaranteed
Guess you missed the part where I said I put the least blame on Trump admin. Reading the whole post helps.
What does saying "Trump is the least to blame for this" have to do with me saying "if Trump led this botched withdrawal you would have a much different reaction". The withdrawal is a completely different event from our 20 year occupation in Afghanistan. Are you saying you don't blame trump for Biden's botched withdrawal? Well I agree with that. Don't know anyone that would disagree with that statement. But again, you are missing the point.
These are two different scenarios and you are once again deflecting by trying to call me dumb. Maybe you should learn to read?
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All-In [42170]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 11:01 AM
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What's pathetic about your posting style is that even when someone agrees with you, you're still looking to start an argument.
That's the mentality of a child, and one that lacks critical thinking. Grow up a bit.
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Heisman Winner [137949]
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Walk me through this "botched withdrawal".
Aug 17, 2021, 8:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin ] |
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We either pull out, or we don't. It doesn't matter if you pull 10% of your troops out every month for 10 months, or pull them out all at once. When they're gone, the Taliban retakes the country. This is one of those pretty rare binary things. Stay, no Taliban in power. Leave, Taliban takes over. So help me out: how to you NOT botch a withdrawal such that the Taliban doesn't take the country?
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Hall of Famer [24072]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin ] |
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You can pretty much say that about anything major that happens in any Presidency.
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CU Medallion [67844]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:19 AM
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The Russians failed there and the British too. The way it unraveled so quickly is a bit surprising but no one changes that place. It is a disaster and always has been. I marvel at the contrast of how the regal looking Afgan dog can come from such a place
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All-In [42170]
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Agreed, sadly.
Aug 17, 2021, 8:21 AM
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If you want democracy and freedom in a nation, you have to first get the masses there to understand it and appreciate it.
Hell, even America took some time to really figure out the freedom for everyone thing.
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Lot o points [155929]
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It's not sad at all.
Aug 17, 2021, 8:28 AM
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Those dogs are beautiful!
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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So this post is to make the point that Biden
Aug 17, 2021, 8:21 AM
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Was out of line by trying to blame Trump in his speech yesterday?
Or is this a plea for everyone to take it easy on him cuz we’re all in this together and we love each other right?
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All-In [42170]
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No
Aug 17, 2021, 8:26 AM
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And you know that's not the point but will sling some strawmen anyway.
But I'll agree that Biden is missing the mark if he's trying to lay this all on the Trump admin.
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 8:22 AM
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I do blame it on 1. W's.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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If you’re making that leap-
Aug 17, 2021, 8:24 AM
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You should be blaming Clinton.... but maybe that’s not convenient.
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: If you’re making that leap-
Aug 17, 2021, 9:00 AM
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You should be blaming Clinton.... but maybe that’s not convenient.
Clinton didn't decide to nation build in Afghanistan. He wasn't even president. He should have killed Bin Laden in Sudan, but the nation building was the problem. We never had to stay in Afghanistan.
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Lot o points [155929]
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It's not easy. I haven't seen many just blaming Biden.
Aug 17, 2021, 8:23 AM
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He owns the withdrawal methodology (huh-huh) but certainly not the situation.
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All-In [42170]
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Well, there are plenty here
Aug 17, 2021, 8:27 AM
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And of course all over the Facebox news feed.
Biden ###### up. Three admins before him did, too.
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Lot o points [155929]
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where?
Aug 17, 2021, 8:30 AM
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Who says every facet of this Afghanistan debacle is on Biden? Show me and I'll make fun of them too. Don't care about facebook.
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All-In [42170]
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That's what I mean
Aug 17, 2021, 11:02 AM
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The withdrawal.
Although apparently Mountaineers thinks his VP time shoulders some blame.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Well, there are plenty here
Aug 17, 2021, 8:55 AM
[ in reply to Well, there are plenty here ] |
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And of course all over the Facebox news feed.
Biden ###### up. Three admins before him did, too.
Again, I haven't seen a single person blaming Biden for us being there for the last 20 years. Can you link some posts?
He is however to blame for the withdrawal.
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All-In [31896]
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I think that is too simple of a view....
Aug 17, 2021, 8:28 AM
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I agree, in part on the nation building aspect.
However, if one buys into the premise that we had to have a significant presence in-country to effectively fight AQ, we had to have some level of interaction and cooperation with the government...which means there had to be a government other than local Taliban rule.
That doesn't mean that we had to do everything we did there and spend all of the $$ we did there, but I think it's more complicated than just nation-build/don't nation-build.
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All-In [42170]
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Re: I think that is too simple of a view....
Aug 17, 2021, 11:03 AM
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I agree:
However, if one buys into the premise that we had to have a significant presence in-country to effectively fight AQ, we had to have some level of interaction and cooperation with the government...which means there had to be a government other than local Taliban rule.
With that. But we put much more into this and did try to nation build. And we clearly left them without the parachute we thought we did.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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I'll just say this
Aug 17, 2021, 8:45 AM
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Would you have written this long post last yr if Trump had exited with such a horrible result?
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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Maybe, maybe not
Aug 17, 2021, 8:54 AM
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But had it been Obama that made a withdrawal deal with the Taliban and left Trump to honor it, you can bet your boots the Pubs on here would be howling like wolves. Lie to me and tell me it wouldn't have been so.
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All-In [26968]
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What would the reaction have been if
Aug 17, 2021, 9:02 AM
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Millard Fillmore had done this?
I mean, who cares about hypotheticals about what people on the internet would have said if so and so did such and such?" It's meaningless.
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All-In [42170]
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Re: I'll just say this
Aug 17, 2021, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to I'll just say this ] |
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Because I possess critical thinking skills and still look mainly to Bush and Obama as most of the blame for these debacles, my reaction would have been the same. I actually hoped Trump would get us out of Afghanistan sooner because it had to happen. Just, well, I wish not like this.
Quit trying to get all butthurt over the man you worship.
Also, remember how hard you cheerleaded Bush and all this war stuff back in the day?
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110%er [5679]
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Re: It's easy to lay blame on one admin
Aug 17, 2021, 6:26 PM
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Responding to original post...
The way you, the MSM, social media, etc. blamed Trump for COVID makes me have ZERO sympathy for Biden because he was one of the biggest liars blaming Trump the whole time and saying he would STOP the virus and not shut down the economy. What a crock!
What comes around goes around.
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