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It's a simple roster management issue
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Replies: 41  

It's a simple roster management issue

emoji_events [16]
Oct 5, 2021, 8:16 AM

You can't keep bringing in recruiting classes of 20 or so players, not bring in guys from the transfer portal and have 4-6 players transfer after each season. That's currently what we are doing and the reason why we have very little depth.

Dabo is always going to have a soft spot in his heart for walk-ons. He loves giving them available scholarships because he was once in that position. Sure it's a noble act, but it's hurting the program at this point.

Something has to change. Either we utilize the transfer portal to gap-fill needs or we bring in larger recruiting classes each season. I'm not for or against the use of the portal because I don't think it's the clear resolution to our problems. So I'm fine with him not using it. But, we have to bring in more quality players from the beginning. It's that simple.

Just as a reminder, our 2022 class only has 12 committed guys. One of which is a kicker. It only has one DE and zero DT's. We are scheduled to lose 3 maybe 4 DE's after this season and potentially 1-2 DT's. Two of our best DT's are hurt for an extended period of time. What are our coaches waiting on?

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue

[2]
Oct 5, 2021, 8:23 AM

probably waiting on certain kids to commit. Its not like everyone commits at the same time. If you dont think they are always working recruiting as hard as they can then you dont know this staff.

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we aren't leading for a single DL recruit right now in 2022

[3]
Oct 5, 2021, 8:32 AM

I don't think there's one guy that has us in his top 3 teams at this point. And it's not like a ton of offers are going out to new guys either. We put all of our eggs in J. Alexander and Travis Shaw's basket and they went elsewhere. Now we are trying to recover but have done so poorly.

It's not that I'm saying the coaches aren't trying. It's just that them being stingy with offers and not taking transfers is creating a serious problem with our depth at multiple positions.

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue


Oct 5, 2021, 8:30 AM

Just because a team needs high ceiling recruits in a position does not mean the recruits want us. Because almost every game is on tv somewhere, there are many more schools that get good players now. Look at NFL rosters and you will see what I am talking about.

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you still need quality bodies in order to fill a roster

emoji_events [5]
Oct 5, 2021, 8:37 AM

Right now we are backfilling scholarship slots with too many walk-ons. Give me any 3 star or low 4 star recruit project over a walk-on kid any day. I mean look how Ruke and Ajou have turned out. Quality players who are continuing to get better. I can't say the same about Will Swinney and the other walk-ons now on scholarship.

99.9999% of the high school recruits would be honored to receive an offer from us. Don't tell me that too many kids don't want to come to Clemson. That is just lazy. Yeah your argument makes sense when we recruit 2 or 3 guys and they all turn us down. We need to cast a bigger net.

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Re: you still need quality bodies in order to fill a roster

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 10:22 AM

Good point made about the wise use of walk-on player management. One position group I see as underperforming is tight end blocking... None really catch well,, blocking is horrible except for the walk on tight end from the private school. He almost always blocks his assignment and has for several years. Must be hurt as he has not played much after the torn acl... Got into the game Saturday and blocked down allowing DJ to run for seven yards or so over the left side... Dude can block...

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Re: you still need quality bodies in order to fill a roster


Oct 5, 2021, 10:48 AM

Will Swinney is a bad example as he is one of the 6th year guys whose scholarship does not count against the 85.

He was given a scholarship because the school was willing to pay for it. The same is true for Skalski, Spiers and the other 6th year guys. Clemson agreed to honor a scholarship for them and it does not count against the 85 limit.

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I always thought most walk on scholarships were a 1 year deal....


Oct 5, 2021, 10:54 AM

That those scholarships might go to recruiting the next year unless you are a player like Hunter Renfrow?

So, can anyone tell me...at what point would we have had to get someone from the portal in order for them to be on the team this year? Did any of our transfers leave in time to actually get someone from the portal and have them play this year?

Pulling from the portal now...for next year....what is the advantage?

Thanks for any answers....I really am not connecting the dots.

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Re: I always thought most walk on scholarships were a 1 year deal....


Oct 5, 2021, 11:07 AM

A lot of our "unsuspected" portal losses come at the end of spring practice. It's typically when older guys realize the younger players have/or will pass them on the depth chart.

I would suspect this is when many teams lose players, so we would have to recruit them and get them to enroll in early to mid summer.

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Right....


Oct 5, 2021, 11:53 AM

How many critical players did we lose? I simply can't remember.

I thought at the end of Spring we might look for a QB since TP was hurt....but I don't really know of any other players that had to be replaced.

Not saying we can't find a better player in the portal that is the perfect fit....but, I don't remember seeing much need. Our OL has been a spot where we need improvement...but if we did not lose any after spring...how do you handle your roster to pick up another OL?

What is Danny's role? What is the job of Portal Master? Maybe David Hood could ask that? Why monitor the portal if we have no interest in it?

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Re: Right....

[2]
Oct 5, 2021, 12:28 PM

I know we lost Mike Jones Jr (LB not an area of need), Chez Mellusi (RB not an area of need), and we lost Nyles Pinckney and Jordan Williams who were set to be backup DTs. DT wasn't an area of need but is now an area of need in the middle of the season since the 2 starters are out for the year essentially.

Kendrick was dismissed and not a guy who transferred on his own, but again I think we felt good with our CB starters and wanted the young guys to provide depth.

I'm paraphrasing but I believe Dabo's answer when questioned about looking for a QB after TP's injury was something to the effect of "every QB in the country knows we have DJ and good luck convincing a kid to transfer in here with the expectation of being a backup to finish out their career".

Obviously his expectation was for DJ to be playing well this season, but his sentiment at the time pretty much lines up with what he is saying now that he isn't searching the portal for backups.

I would also guess that there are not many players in the portal looking to transfer to be at best a #2 player at their position.

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Thanks!


Oct 5, 2021, 12:49 PM

I appreciate your input. +1

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue

[2]
Oct 5, 2021, 8:41 AM

Man, I sure hope Dabo and his coaching staff read y’alls recommendations ... sounds like you’ve got it figured it out. Good job arm chair coaches. Ha, smoke break is over now back to work - Clowns

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue

[2]
Oct 5, 2021, 8:57 AM

I am glad that you recognize that taking more recruits could be a better option than the transfer portal. On the other hand, I am not sure about all of the defensive lineman that you say that we are losing. Davis is the only impact DT that I see us potentially losing, and I would be surprised if he left since his injury would probably decrease his draft stock for this year. Tough to go with the theory that we should increase numbers for a position based on we could have transfers because of the depth at that position.

At DE I am not sure who you have leaving either. Murphy can't, Henry won't, and XT would be drafted a lot higher if he puts together back to back seasons after his sophomore slump. We will lose Foster and Upshaw, but those are the only 2 scholarship DE's that I can think of us losing. Out of the commits you mentioned, one is Jihaad Campbell at DE. We have some concerns but I am not seeing them on the DL.

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 9:35 AM

Agree with everything except XT. Don't see XT staying for higher draft grade. Think he takes his chances unless it's below 3rd round... And I don't see him getting below a 3rd. If you're Dabo, you have to consider him gone.

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XT is allowed to return since everyone got an extra year


Oct 5, 2021, 10:01 AM

due to 2020/COVID, but this is his 4th season with us.

He's a 6'2", 265 pound DE who had a total of 9 sacks in his first 3 seasons.

If you're going to be a bit undersized, you have to be better than that at rushing the passer to be drafted high.

He's already tied his career high with 3.5 sacks, so this looks like it's going to be a career year for him. He was actually quite good last year too though (3.5 sacks in 5 games). He'll certainly go pro if he finishes strong. I'm honestly a bit surprised he came back this year given the fact that he missed the playoff, and there was so much uncertainty about his status.

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Re: XT is allowed to return since everyone got an extra year


Oct 5, 2021, 12:45 PM

Normally, I would be in the why would XT stay camp. If he keeps playing like he did Sat Night, he will probably hit his ceiling and get a high draft grade. With NIL it might be less of a no brainer depending on what grade he gets. He had kids and a soon to be wife. If he can make 500k staying at Clemson that would be a good living. First or second round NFL edge rusher is life changing money.

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For DE:


Oct 5, 2021, 10:45 AM

Foster, Henry, XT and Mascoll were the ones I were considering. All of which should be graduated and could move on or are on their last year of eligibility. Henry and Mascoll could also return if they wanted but I could see them leaving. Doesn't include Reagan Upshaw who is also leaving and doesn't account for any transfers that may happen.

For DT: Davis could leave early but I was thinking more of the lines of guys transferring out, like Darnell Jefferies. It wouldn't be a big loss. But a loss, nonetheless.

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one comment that Dabo made last night on his radio call in..

[3]
Oct 5, 2021, 9:27 AM

"......we've never seen anybody in the portal that could come in and start here."

that should tell you all you need to know about his stubbornness to utilize the portal. If ALABAMA can find starters in the portal then we can.

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Re: one comment that Dabo made last night on his radio call in..


Oct 5, 2021, 10:35 AM

So you don't think some of those incoming Alabama/LSU transfers contacted/were contacted prior to entering the portal? My guess is...yes. It's free agency with no rules.

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then embrace it. It's the way of the CFB world nowadays....


Oct 5, 2021, 11:12 AM

like it or not.

I hate the portal, but if others are doing it to their benefit then we should.

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Re: one comment that Dabo made last night on his radio call in..


Oct 5, 2021, 12:59 PM

Other than the LB from TN, who that came from the portal starts at Bama? I don’t watch them enough to know who starts. That guy is a really good football player. That player in particular would not start over Skalski or Spector. Spector is as good of an inside LB as there is in College Football. Skalski is who who is, knows how to get people lined up in a complicated defense, and has the complete trust of the D Coordinator. Trotter and Bentley both have a higher ceiling than the Bama guy has. Do you really think we are going to get five star guys to fill the Patterson/McGuire role. BTW- don’t be surprised if one or both of them transfer, they would start for over 100 teams in College Football but may not ever start for us.

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Re: one comment that Dabo made last night on his radio call in..

[2]
Oct 5, 2021, 2:47 PM

Jameson Williams from Ohio St starts at WR for Bama.

This whole argument is ridiculous. Three of the last four Heisman winners were transfers. 2 of the top 20 draft picks last year were transfers. The #1 & 2 teams in the polls have 2 or more starters that were transfers. There is just no way someone can reasonably say there are not starters to be found in the portal.

That said, Dabo believes in culture and character. He believes going to the portal is a quick fix that risks that. Who are we to disagree? Dabo is in charge. He has made his decision. Let’s support him (and our team) and move on.

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You can nitpick the roster all day long...


Oct 5, 2021, 10:21 AM

and theorize if a transfer here or there would help us this year. That's not really a certainty bc we have alot of quality players so its not like we were really lacking anywhere other than some quality Oline guys. However, the Oline is more of a developmental issue than it is talent and Im not sure a transfer would fit in or would want to come play Oline here. Every other spot has alot of talent and depth.

The simple answer to our struggles is we do not have quality QB play. If we had even a slight improvement we'd be undefeated right now. QB play is everything.

So what if we give away 5 extra scholarships to some random senior walk-on....thats not our issue right now.

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Re: You can nitpick the roster all day long...

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 10:45 AM

Agree. You can see hundreds of skilled players on the Transfer Port-O-Let. Most high school linemen excel because they are the largest people on the team. OL in college is a long term development area and we se that in our line. How may quality OL men do you see that are available? Not sure why Dabo decided to redo the entire OL. Seems to me he could have let the 3 play their "normal" position and insert the other 2 positions with the new players. Sort of "Why change all the new tires when only one goes flat."

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there's not a simple answer to our struggles.......

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 11:29 AM

If the Oline could block just a little better we could be undefeated.
If the WRs could catch a little better we could be undefeated.
If we could run just a little better vs a defense dropping 8 in coverage we could be undefeated.
If the Playcalling could be a little less predictable we could be undefeated.
If Ross was playing his regular WR position we could be undefeated.
If we had a true slot WR we could be undefeated.
If Shipley got more touches early instead of pace we could be undefeated.
and the list could go on.....

see how that works?

Yes, DJ has had inconsistencies and hasn't played great, but it's not JUST HIM.


Most baffling about all this is for all the TALENT that we (supposedly) have, we shouldn't be struggling so much.

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You are right that it is a multitude of things...


Oct 5, 2021, 2:15 PM

and goes back to the old saying of its really just 4 or 5 plays that win/lose you a game...we make just a couple of those and its a different story.

While its not completely fair to dump it all on DJ, it comes with the position. As the 'head coach of the players', you get that target more so than other areas. The biggest change is we have grown accustomed to seeing a true gamer at QB dating back Boyd that can create his own plays and make things happen. DJ cannot really do that and is a very unnatural runner. He struggles with feeling pressure/scrambling and the RPO. As good of a talent as he is, its almost like he is not a fit for how our offense has operated the past 10 years. Even if the Oline stinks and guys drop a pass here or there...when you can make plays with your feet consistently the defense is on its heels and then things happen.

Thats just my take as to why I said the predominant reason is DJ. It wouldn't make us perfect but we'd be alot better if he played well.

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To me it seems like an obvious error in judgment to change

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 10:27 AM

your fundamental approach to recruiting for your program because of one mediocre season out of 6 elite seasons.

Seems like an obvious overreaction.

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Not a change in approach, just bringing in a few more bodies


Oct 5, 2021, 10:48 AM

than what we have done in the past. 12 guys in this class with Early Signing Day coming up in 2 months is not going to cut it. This is after another small class last year.

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Re: To me it seems like an obvious error in judgment to change


Oct 5, 2021, 1:15 PM


your fundamental approach to recruiting for your program because of one mediocre season out of 6 elite seasons.

Seems like an obvious overreaction.


It's pretty clear to some of us that our recent success was largely due to generational talent at QB. In fact, it appears we may have largely built the entire program on finding generational QB talent. Sure, we have the occasional really good WR or RB come through but Travis was largely a non-factor last year. So when when we fail to have actual generational talent at QB, like this year, the cracks really star to show. Cracks like; ZERO offensive line development, regressing WR's and mediocre RB play. But yeah, let's keep fighting with one hand tied behind our back (no portal usage) and loading the staff with "yes men". We can always relay on our generational QB talent, until we can't.

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue


Oct 5, 2021, 10:31 AM

Guess the coaches are waiting on the players they want or are good enough to commit. Do you just sign 25 even if they are not what you nee or are not good enough. Sometimes it's about quality and not quantity (Remember the "Dandy Dozen")? I believe the coaches are aware of the 25/85 rule and have a plan. Just my take.

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Quality doesn't have to suffer for quantity


Oct 5, 2021, 10:52 AM

We are a top 5 program and can get most of guys that we want. Quality in recruiting doesn't mean anything when all your best guys are getting hurt every year.

We just simply need more able and talented bodies in order to compete with the best of the best each year. Right now we are competing with team below our standard. There are a lot of reasons for that, but I think roster management is at the top of the list.

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue


Oct 5, 2021, 10:56 AM

Your argument may hold up in future years but this season every coach is dealing with reduced available scholarships due to Covid. Every player got and extra year and only this season allows over 85. If all of the juniors return, where would you like to put all this transfer depth?

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null


Have you heard of Hunter Renfrow?

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 11:04 AM

nm

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Tiger/Terrier


that was like winning a $600 mill lottery...pure luck***


Oct 5, 2021, 4:50 PM



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If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


Re: that was like winning a $600 mill lottery...pure luck***


Oct 7, 2021, 2:27 PM

He came to us. We didn't go to him.

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Tiger/Terrier


I don't think our issue is lack of depth.


Oct 5, 2021, 11:14 AM

Our issue is that many of the 4 and 5 star recruits on our roster this year aren't producing like they were expected to.

But yes, I agree that the numbers aren't sustainable if we are losing guys to transfer but not making up for it in recruiting and the transfer portal.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I don't think our issue is lack of depth.

[2]
Oct 5, 2021, 12:01 PM

Will Brown and the Swinney brothers play more than Dacari Collins and Troy Stellato. You love seeing that

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Isn't this where we are supposed to trust the coaches?

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 12:27 PM

They have won 2 national championships after all.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


If you recruit 25 each year and they all redshirt and don't


Oct 5, 2021, 1:28 PM

leave early, you are at 125. So you need some to not redshirt, some to leave early, and a few that get "out recruited" to transfer to make it to 85.

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And then every year we award a handful of scholarships to

[1]
Oct 5, 2021, 1:31 PM

walk-on WRs

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Re: It's a simple roster management issue


Oct 5, 2021, 5:33 PM

The truth is, we probably can't afford to use the transfer portal. With NIL there is no longer any way to stop pay-to-transfer. Pre-NIL it sill probably cost hundreds of thousands under the table to get top guys from the portal. Now that it is legal, the numbers will just skyrocket. Unless someone discovers oil or gold in the ground in the upstate, we are going to struggle to keep up financially.

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