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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins?
Sep 30, 2020, 12:09 PM
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I could see a huge sell off the first few days after the election.
I wonder how long before the layoffs start?
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Heisman Winner [111631]
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Re: How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins?
Sep 30, 2020, 12:11 PM
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they layoffs started months ago. 21 million unemployed. 1 in 6 small businesses gone forever.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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heh...Covid economy will seem like an up year***
Sep 30, 2020, 12:12 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins?
Sep 30, 2020, 12:14 PM
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Disney is laying off 30k. Airlines about to layoff 10's of thousands. We are already way deep in it.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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Think that improves with a Biden presidency?
Sep 30, 2020, 12:14 PM
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More taxes, more regulations?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Think that improves with a Biden presidency?
Sep 30, 2020, 12:21 PM
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True, but Obama's last 3 years were all better than any of Trump's first 3 years for job growth. No telling what the difference would be. The economy is going to get crushed next year no matter who wins.
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Heisman Winner [137976]
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We're almost $27T in debt. The economy doesn't keep
Sep 30, 2020, 12:21 PM
[ in reply to Think that improves with a Biden presidency? ] |
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humming along without paying any attention to this problem. It has to be serviced with tax revenue, in addition to cutting spending, which is the part of the equation neither Trump nor Democrats appear to have any interest in. A big part of the problem is that Trump has spent his entire "career" being leveraged to the hilt, so he has no qualms whatsoever with maxing out the US credit card. He'll be gone from office and sniping on Twitter when the results of his extra $8T of debt wreck the rest of us.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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This wasn't a big secret.
Sep 30, 2020, 12:24 PM
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Some of us have been complaining about this as long as we've been here.
I guess its not a problem..until it is.
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110%er [7182]
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Re: This wasn't a big secret.
Oct 1, 2020, 4:12 AM
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The national debt in a nutshell.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: We're almost $27T in debt. The economy doesn't keep
Sep 30, 2020, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to We're almost $27T in debt. The economy doesn't keep ] |
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Plus a lot of Americans weren't paying their bills and are way behind. They aren't catching up. A lot of businesses went under, will go under, and are behind their bills. There is a lot brewing out there.
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Heisman Winner [111631]
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Re: How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins?
Sep 30, 2020, 12:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins? ] |
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they reported 5 billion is losses. Looks like Revenue will be way down this year. I bet Trump Clears 8 Trillion in deficit spending in one year.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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If we pass another stimulus, it will be close to 6 trillion***
Sep 30, 2020, 12:16 PM
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Heisman Winner [111631]
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Re: If we pass another stimulus, it will be close to 6 trillion***
Sep 30, 2020, 12:17 PM
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we have the 1.2T current deficit, then add in lost Tax revenue for 2020. Everyone will be reporting losses, much like trump does every year on his taxes.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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"everyone" reporting losses doesn't add to the US deficit
Sep 30, 2020, 12:22 PM
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As for Trump and his taxes..wasn't the AMT applied for all the years that were released? I saw something about the AMT of $31 million being paid?
I can tell you from experience; the AMT is no "alternative" to paying taxes, and it certainly isn't a "minimum" tax.
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All-In [48078]
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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110%er [5694]
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Re: How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins?
Sep 30, 2020, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins? ] |
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Sure, Biden talks all night about Trump not wanting to pass the trillion dollar stimulus bill(s) and you blame the spending Trump.
Tiring.
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All-In [38514]
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After Biden's socialist takeover...
Sep 30, 2020, 12:19 PM
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there will be no more stock market.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I'm not attempting to be outrageous with my post.
Sep 30, 2020, 12:25 PM
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But I don't see how increases in taxes will help our economy in the least, do you?
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All-In [38514]
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The stock market and the economy aren't necessarily
Sep 30, 2020, 12:40 PM
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the same thing. The effect of tax cuts or increases on the economy depends on how they are implemented and how government spends the money. Tax cuts can remove incentives for investment and tax increases can increase investment incentives.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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When does a tax increase, increase investment incentives?
Sep 30, 2020, 12:45 PM
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I'll be standing by my computer.
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All-In [38514]
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When avoiding paying the increase encourages investment.
Sep 30, 2020, 1:22 PM
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There's got to be a balance. A good economy requires money to move around. Taxes, and the avoidance of taxes, can help do that.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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"avoiding paying the increase"...hmmm
Sep 30, 2020, 2:17 PM
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That's interesting. I'd like to know more about how I may avoid paying taxes by investing more, once I have hit the legal limit of doing so that offsets tax penalties.
For instance, I already contribute the maximum legal amount to my 401K, IRA and my HSA. How might I avoid more taxes by investing more?
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CU Medallion [57156]
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Invest in those high-paying green energy jobs that
Sep 30, 2020, 2:46 PM
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Obama promised and Joe will deliver. Solyndra 2 should provide generous tax breaks for donors, I mean investors.
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All-In [38514]
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I'm more referring to corporate taxes.
Sep 30, 2020, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to "avoiding paying the increase"...hmmm ] |
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Lower tax rates don't necessarily encourage investments in hiring, innovation, etc. Higher tax rates with proper deduction incentives can.
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All-In [48078]
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110%er [7182]
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Re: After Biden's socialist takeover...
Oct 1, 2020, 4:28 AM
[ in reply to After Biden's socialist takeover... ] |
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I don't remember any of the pure capitalist businesses complaining when the government was handing out money earlier this year. Or even back in 2008 (though my memory isn't that great from back then). Or anyone complaining when DJT says he is going to cap pharmaceutical prices at a certain limit as a socialist economy would do. Or anyone complaining about the military, or firehouses, or public education, or roads/highways. There are many, many ways we have socialist tendencies here.
Aside from healthcare, what is Biden going to do that will tip the scales to a fully socialist country & capitalism goes by the wayside? I am seriously asking, not trying to be an ásshóle.
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Standout [347]
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It will drop initially, but overall will benefit from stability that
Sep 30, 2020, 12:28 PM
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Biden will bring. Markets respond negatively to uncertainty, which is Trump exemplifies, despite some of his pro-business policies. While many may not like Biden’s policies, it will at least be clear what the strategy and goal is, and expectations will be set. The last 3 years there has been no clear strategy, increasing uncertainty. The performance of the stock market revolves around exceeding or falling short of expectations. This is why the stock market hit all time highs under Obama, despite not being as pro-business as conservatives.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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interesting argument***
Sep 30, 2020, 12:31 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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completely wrong, but interesting..I guess.***
Sep 30, 2020, 12:41 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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must've been Rip Van Winkle last 4 years***
Sep 30, 2020, 12:43 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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stability...uh huh.
Sep 30, 2020, 12:40 PM
[ in reply to It will drop initially, but overall will benefit from stability that ] |
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A 2 second google tells me that the highest the DJIA ever has been was 29,551.42 on Feb. 12, so while you can say that Obama had highs, that's certainly not the whole truth of it.
The market is completely disconnected from economic performance, as the US is currently at about 8.4% unemployment, but yet the DJIA is sitting at 27,947.29, merely 1000 points or so from its all time high--and this is during a pandemic, only a few months from losing almost 8% of its value in one day. If you think "stability" is all the market needs to succeed, I'm not sure what to tell you. And what makes you so sure that high taxes and big gov't spending is "stable"?
As been noted in this thread, at some point, the debt will have to be dealt with.
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110%er [7182]
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Re: It will drop initially, but overall will benefit from stability that
Oct 1, 2020, 4:32 AM
[ in reply to It will drop initially, but overall will benefit from stability that ] |
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"Markets respond negatively to uncertainty, which is Trump exemplifies, despite some of his pro-business policies. While many may not like Biden’s policies, it will at least be clear what the strategy and goal is, and expectations will be set."
This is exactly what a banker friend of mine has told me. And it makes complete sense. He related it to people playing the long game with bonds & some stocks while others play it day by day. Sometimes it will hit & they make it big, other times not so much. But in the long run it always goes up.
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All-In [40936]
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none
Sep 30, 2020, 1:25 PM
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Investers have that figured in
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110%er [5694]
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Re: How much does the DJIA drop if Biden wins?
Sep 30, 2020, 2:20 PM
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Agree, with a full monty Dem lineup, there will be a sell off and the economy will not rebound for at least four years, maybe more. I will be selling a large % of equities before then.
Just know now if this happens all of the current claims of how Biden knows how to fix chit will disappear into the ether, and the continued crap economic conditions will be blamed on Trump. The word will be "Trump let COVID in and therefore I cannot fix the economy in only four years - we need at least four more and more gov't stimulus." This will be what you libs will be saying in four years under democrat rule. You will claim the problems will be due to not enough gov't influence, takeover, and spending. The democrat solution - double down on more gov't takeover and spending.
Even with a stalemate (Senate stays with Pubs), the economy will stay in the crapper I believe.
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CU Medallion [57156]
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The Liberal solution to *every* “crisis” is:
Sep 30, 2020, 2:50 PM
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- higher taxes
- more Government
- less liberty
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All-In [31907]
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Does Trump concede power peacefully in this....
Sep 30, 2020, 3:17 PM
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scenario?
Yes? - none
No? - they tank
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110%er [7182]
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Re: Does Trump concede power peacefully in this....
Oct 1, 2020, 4:33 AM
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Sadly, we already know this answer. I'm just hoping for the best no matter who wins at this point.
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