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CU Medallion [65514]
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It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 8:03 AM
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experience with Covid, that it is much like the debate over the Death Penalty. My dad always had a simple answer for those who claimed the Death Penalty was not a deterrent.
"It'll deter the Heyall out of the one they execute!"
Tough to argue with that. Covid is the same way. Having the vaccine may not protect you 100%, but everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that I have read says that it lessens the severity of the infection of you do test positive.
I am 66 years old, retired, and pretty much hid out in my house until I was able to get the Pfizer two shot vaccine. I have four of the underlying conditions which meant that if I caught the Covid, I was pretty much a goner. I had no side effects other than sore injection site for a couple or three days. Wifey got the J&J single shot, she had chills and a dry cough and such for 24 hours as a reaction to that, but then was fine going forward. I certainly don't think the vaccine made me Superman, but I do like my chances of survival much better going forward.
Anti-vaxxers will never be convinced to take it now, unless Covid impacts them or someone very close to them in a major, probably fatal way. And if it does hit them, just like the Death Penalty, it will be too late for personal redemption. Covid may not affect everyone, but it will certainly have affected that individual just like a Death Penalty. And, similarly, their death will have wide ranging effects on their family members as well.
I don't believe that Docs and Nurses are lying about what is happening in their hospitals, with nearly all the most severe cases now being unvaccinated individuals. That is a testament, and a sad one, of just how a disease can be turned into a political football, and a lifesaving preventative treatment can be villified to the point that even otherwise reasonable people make a bad decision.
At this point, it will take something like a government mandate via law to force full vaccination. And, given our modern lawyered up society, the government would never take that risk. So, Covid will remain a problem that has an answer, with many people who refuse to seek that answer dying needlessly. This saddens me, and should sadden everyone. 
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110%er [7191]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 8:12 AM
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You post is both compelling and interesting, and I agree with most of it.
All except one statement.
In your last paragraph, you said" Covid will remain a problem that has an answer".
Well, like the death penalty, Covid has no answer.
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CU Medallion [65514]
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It has an answer, but, just like the flu, that answer has to
Aug 19, 2021, 8:26 AM
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evolve on a yearly basis. I firmly believe that Covid vaccines will evolve into yearly booster shots designed to handle the latest variants going forward. We will never again have a world that is Covid free, it will be a fact of life from now on.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: It has an answer, but, just like the flu, that answer has to
Aug 19, 2021, 8:48 AM
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I see your point and agree about the possibility of a booster shot every year. Where I disagree is that unlike the flu, no mask are needed. IMO, as long as mask are needed, there is no answer.
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Legend [16507]
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It is interesting that with all the flu-related deaths each
Aug 19, 2021, 9:53 AM
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year that there is no vaccine debate and no mask debate. Both would probably lower flu deaths, but nobody's having a cow either way. Personal choice. The vaccinated are not bothered, nor are the un-vaccinated.
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: It is interesting that with all the flu-related deaths each
Aug 19, 2021, 12:09 PM
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There are BIG differences. >500k people don't die of the flu and the flu doesn't cause hospitals to saturate. That is why we deal with the flu the way we do. However, there is a precedent for dealing with more dangerous strains of flu similarly to how we are trying to deal with Covid. Google 1918 flu.
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All-TigerNet [12876]
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal ] |
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There is an answer, its just not one that will resolve things right now. People need to take care of themselves. Eat better, exercise. One thing the keeps getting conveniently left out of reported figures is underlying conditions such as obesity, diabetes, things of that nature that are controllable by our actions and have a major impact on susceptibility to illness. Of course there are "healthy" people catching it, but they seem to be exceptions rather than the norm.
We want to put "band-aids" on everything instead of going back to the root of these issues.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 8:54 AM
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Maybe there is an answer but if I may inject something that some people will agree with and some will not, the convenient leaving out of reported figures, is, in my opinion, a part of the Left not wanting you to know those figures ,or stats.
Again, just my opinion ,but it doesn't fit their narrative.
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 8:58 AM
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Oh I absolutely agree. I personally try not to point fingers left or right, but I do believe there are incentives to throwing out vaccines and boosters. Just like in football, a lot of moves are made for $$$.
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All-In [40936]
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal ] |
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I have a friend who about 45 years old, a very healthy young man who worked out daily and regularly ran marathons.
He did not take the vaccine and was infected with COVID. He spent about a month in the hospital and at one point the Drs told the family he would not make it through the night.
He has since improved and came home but cannot get out in public due to the damage to his lungs. He continues to improve after being home from the hospital since May but is a shell of his old self.
This man was a speciem of health until this disease infected his body.
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 9:40 AM
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like I said, there are undoubtedly exceptions. But we can't talk in exceptions when looking at 300 million people, ya know?
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 9:10 AM
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And people still suck on cigarettes knowing that they will cause health problems or kill them as well . It’s crazy !
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Orange Blooded [4150]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 9:32 AM
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At the end of the day, To take or not to take the shots is still a personal choice.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 10:06 AM
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But ironically, the constitution says that public health liberty lies with the state not the individuals. 10th amendment, extension of the police power. Some classical liberal example often note that within the social contract we have traded individual freedom. Public health has always been one of those tradeoffs.
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal ] |
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It is a personal choice, but people shouldn't kid themselves into thinking their choice doesn't affect others. More people vaccinated = less virus spread = fewer hospitalizations = more hospital beds for everyone = fewer deaths. Also, less spread = fewer opportunities for mutations = reduced probability of more dangerous strains that "get around" existing vaccines.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: It suddenly hit me while reading another post on a personal
Aug 19, 2021, 10:02 AM
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Oh boi, this is going to be a good "debate".
I always felt that the death penalty as a deterrent was a bad argument. No amount of "risk of punishment" stops dumb mistakes. Dumb mistake should be paid for but dead folks can not correct debts.
The death penalty is, and has ever been two fold. Retribution/vengeance and "not dealing with your crud".
However, there are those that "never trust the government" and then are the first ones to cheer for the death penalty often "as a deterrent".
I am of the strong inclination that the government should not make that type of irreversible decision except in the most severe cases when both the jeopardy of the the country AND (not or) life is involved. For that reason, I am not for the DP save in instances where the "murder" was directed towards agents that protect our liberty. Thus treason and attacks on the governent that involve the loss of life are the only cases, etc.
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