Replies: 72
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Scout Team [161]
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110%er [7497]
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not even an option***
Jul 12, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Team Captain [488]
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lack of institutional control...I would say it's possible***
Jul 12, 2012, 1:08 PM
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110%er [7497]
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DP is for repeat offenders and hasn't been used against
Jul 12, 2012, 3:43 PM
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those in 20 years. It's a stretch to even make PSU a one time offender in this case. I suspect PSU will punish themselves in some manner and NCAA will just issue a public reprimand type statement- no probabation whatsoever.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Lack of institutional control pertains to rules being broken
Jul 13, 2012, 10:37 PM
[ in reply to lack of institutional control...I would say it's possible*** ] |
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The NCAA governs schools as it pertains to athletics, and their rules are set up to keep schools from gaining unfair advantages, in athletics. This has nothing to do with that.
The NCAA has zero jurisdiction in this situation. You guys are confused.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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no.***
Jul 12, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Varsity [219]
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Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 12, 2012, 12:30 PM
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Totally an option. There is a coverup from top to bottom in the administration. Complete and total lack of institutional control that resulted in the rape of underage boys.
I'd say it's a little worse than some free tatoos or a house for mom, and we saw how strongly USC and OSU got punished.
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CU Guru [1098]
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But
Jul 12, 2012, 12:35 PM
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if you watched the special on smu, many agreed that it will never be done again. When they made that call, none of them had an idea on how bad that was going to affect the school. It took the Mustangs like 30 years to do anything good in football. If I'm not mistaken, it husrt the in tuition since many believed it was too hot to handle so they took their money elsewhere.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Comparing SMU to the criminal and unconscionable actions
Jul 12, 2012, 12:49 PM
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of Paterno and the PSU admin is beyond ludicrous! You think recruiting violations even belong in the same conversation with serial child molestation followed by a 14 year cover up involving federal criminal violations? Especially when the admin says we're turning Sandusky in and the head football coach talks them out of it and allows the man access to athletic facilities? Followed by the cover up continuing another 11 years? Seriously? People are gong to prison for this.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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First thing I can remember agree with you on ever.....
Jul 13, 2012, 7:36 PM
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except once before as Blue Caddie. +1.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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^^^ agreeing^^^***
Jul 13, 2012, 7:37 PM
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Team Captain [488]
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documentary and comments made way b4 penn state***
Jul 12, 2012, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to But ] |
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CU Guru [1098]
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I see what y'all are saying and
Jul 12, 2012, 10:37 PM
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I will agree. It did slip my mind that this goes deeper that the football offices. It truly is sad for all parties involved.... especially the kids and their families.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 12, 2012, 12:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football ] |
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The problem is what happened at Penn State was not against specific NCAA rules. This is a terrible thing and should be punished to the severest extent of the law but the NCAA has no grounds to punish them based on the NCAA rule book.
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Rock Defender [54]
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What part of "institutional control" don't you get? This was
Jul 12, 2012, 12:55 PM
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the head football coach, athletic director, and school president giving an assistant football coach access to children, athletic facilities, and athletic events, after they knew what was going on, then covering it up for 14 years. Then to make it even worse, which is mind boggling in itself, 11 years ago the admin was going to give Sandusky up and the head football coach talks them out of it. It doesn't get any worse than that, except maybe hearing Matt Millen and others still trying to give Paterno a pass.
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Rock Defender [54]
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You're not smart...
Jul 12, 2012, 1:07 PM
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Water is wet.
Pewt.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: What part of "institutional control" don't you get? This was
Jul 12, 2012, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to What part of "institutional control" don't you get? This was ] |
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Just because they use the term "institutional control" doesn't mean it carries the same weight as the NCAA. The NCAA can find a institution guilty of lack of institutional control in regards to another violation.
In this case there is no other violation. If they want to come after Penn. St. for ethical reasons they would have to have specific rules outlined by the NCAA that Penn St. broke. The NCAA is not the federal government and cannot enforce rules outlined by the Law.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Wrong! The NCAA can do anything it wants to any college AD
Jul 13, 2012, 3:18 AM
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it wants for any reason it wants if it feels it falls under "lack of institutional control". It's a monopoly.
Just like the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, etc, can punish their teams for any reason they want. In fact, to show just how incorrect and flawed your logic is, about 90% of the things schools get put on probation for are things that are perfectly legal and have nothing to do with the law and are done by colleges in other endeavors.
If you have any talent other than athletics that a university deems valuable, a booster can give you a job, a place to live, pay you money, etc etc etc and it's legal and part of doing business. Do that with a football recruit, however, and you're in big trouble.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Wrong again.***
Jul 13, 2012, 10:30 PM
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CU Guru [1746]
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Wrong.***
Jul 13, 2012, 10:29 PM
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Legend [17786]
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I agree. They need to burn for this. Wont happen but it shou***
Jul 12, 2012, 12:32 PM
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 12, 2012, 12:33 PM
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I don't think the NCAA should be involved at all. If they did get involved, the only logical route would likely be the death penalty, but I don't really see how this falls in their jurisdiction.
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Rock Defender [54]
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wow. pull your head out your rear.***
Jul 12, 2012, 12:57 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Faddy, what jurisdiction does the NCAA have in this case?
Jul 12, 2012, 1:02 PM
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Side note - it's hilarious you'd tell anyone, "pull your head out your rear".
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Rock Defender [54]
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institutional control. Those two words give the NCAA
Jul 12, 2012, 1:04 PM
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unlimited authority over athletic programs.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Wrong. Lack of Institutional Control (like you've been cited
Jul 12, 2012, 1:06 PM
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for) is not related to this case. It has nothing to do with student athletes.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Wrong.***
Jul 13, 2012, 7:40 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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No, not wrong....
Jul 13, 2012, 10:29 PM
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The NCAA covers issues relating to athletics and rules are set up to keep schools from gaining unfair advantages. The Sandusky situation is completely unrelated to athletics and certainly had nothing to do with gaining an unfair advantage versus other schools.
http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12463683#12463683
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Aficionado [151]
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Rock Defender [54]
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How about federal laws, laws of god and morality, human
Jul 13, 2012, 1:15 PM
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decency. You think coaches and athletic administrators, and university administrators allowing athletic facilities and events as his own personal "Neverland" is not a complete lack of institutional control or punishable by the NCAA?
That is precisely why they use a term like "institutional control" because there is no way to write a rule to anticipate very possible scenario that could be acted upon by athletes, coaches, or administrators.
Are some of you folks really as dense and ignorant as you post? Seriously? Any common sense whatsoever?
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Never thought we'd be in the same camp. Definitely this time***
Jul 13, 2012, 7:42 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Rock Defender [54]
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CU Medallion [64593]
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Nope....
Jul 12, 2012, 12:36 PM
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shutting-down the program neither helps the victims nor punishes the perpetrators.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Then under that definition no school should ever be on
Jul 12, 2012, 1:02 PM
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probation since by the time the NCAA finds folks guilty, the players involved and typically the coaching staff as well, are long gone. This is about punishing the program, athletic department, and school for allowing this. As well as sending a message. And it's naive to think fans, alumni, and students are not complicit because they are since most would have gone along with the cover up had they known about it because all they care about is their image, their football program, and winning. We see that attitude at EVERY program and on TNET every day!
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Team Captain [488]
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I disagree....it chokes out that culture***
Jul 12, 2012, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to Nope.... ] |
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CU Medallion [64593]
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It also....
Jul 12, 2012, 1:56 PM
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punishes coaches, athletes, students and fans who did not know anything about what was taking place and in all likelihood would certainly not have condoned it.
These are issues for the Pennsylvania criminal and civil courts not the NCAA.
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Team Captain [488]
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sometimes innocent people pay for bad things that happen
Jul 12, 2012, 2:56 PM
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it is a fact of life
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CU Guru [1363]
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helps hold people accountable***
Jul 12, 2012, 3:00 PM
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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What authority would the NCAA have to do this?
Jul 12, 2012, 12:37 PM
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This is easily the worst thing that a college sports program has done but the NCAA has NO business getting involved. It would be like a kid's neighbors trying to ground him for murdering someone...
How about go back and look at Auburn and UNC for real this time. They never do their "job" when they're supposed to and try and stick their noses in where they don't belong. The NCAA is a joke.
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Orange Blooded [4774]
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Just stupid... Why punish players and life-long fans for
Jul 12, 2012, 12:39 PM
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An issue that the staff cause and failed to address.
Clean house and start fresh from a leadership/staff perspective. Don't kill a college football legend like Penn St.
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CU Guru [1555]
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For 1) This has nothing to do with the NCAA
Jul 12, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Nowhere in the NCAA rulebook does something like this get mentioned. If it is not in the NCAA rulebook, then they have no business sticking their noses into it. Is it the NCAA or ACC's business about the Rebel flag on statehouse grounds? No just as the NCAA shouldn't have an impact here.
Second point is that the author tries to make it sound like football was put above the kids, but that isn't the case. If Sandusky was still a coach while Paterno and others new about the incidents, then I could agree, but most of the "cover up"/inaction occurred while he was not coach. This says to me that merely saving face, not winning football games, was more important than the kids.
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Scout Team [197]
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Re: Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 12, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Disagree. While the acts of Sandusky, JoPa, and Penn St. Leaders is by far one the most deplorable act ever conducted in the world of college football, what occurred was not done to gain an advantage in football itself. Suspensions, fines, and program "death penalties" should be reserved for offenses that occur with that aim in mind. These acts fall outside the NCAA's athletic natured jurisdiction. These criminals should be persued, tried, and convicted in the court of law. Giving Penn St. the "death penalty" only serves to punish athletes and students who neither knew or condoned these atrocities. I understand the need to seek justice but don't let the heat of the moment cause you to punish the innocent.
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Rooter [218]
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the school should lose theie butt in endless lawsuits but
Jul 12, 2012, 12:45 PM
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That's all
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Legend [17786]
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If allowing your on campus facilities to be used as a
Jul 12, 2012, 1:00 PM
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personal child rape dungeon by a top football official doesn't get you the NCAA death penalty, what would?
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Rock Defender [54]
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I've always known TNET was full of self righteous hypocrites
Jul 12, 2012, 1:11 PM
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but seeing all these moral high ground, good suthun folk, and christians trying to rationalize and justify how the PSU AD is not in this up to their eyes is a new low for TNET.
The head football coach and AD were fired, yet these folks say it's not a football or AD issue? Seriously?
Clearly they have no concept of "institutional control".
What's next, a plane crashes due to pilot error and the airline company is given a pass and no penalties are awarded to the victims' families?
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Legend [17786]
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Thats right***
Jul 12, 2012, 1:14 PM
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CU Medallion [64593]
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C'mon man....
Jul 12, 2012, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to I've always known TNET was full of self righteous hypocrites ] |
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you're smarter than that.
While the actions and inactions of Sandusky, Paterno, and others at Penn State were dispicable, the NCAA's definition of "institutional control" pertains to athletes or programs gaining an unfair competitive advantage. The things that took place at Penn State fall well outside of the NCAA's athletic jurisdiction.
Imposing the death penalty only punishes coaches, athletes, students and fans who did not know anything about what was taking place and in all likelihood would certainly not have condoned it.
There are issues for the Pennsylvania criminal and civil courts not the NCAA.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Wrong. We have been penalized for extra desserts and
Jul 13, 2012, 3:25 AM
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an assistant coach giving a player a ride to the airport to fly home for a funeral. We had to get special permission to help Ray Ray AFTER he was at Clemson. The list goes on and on with things deemed improper and illegal by the NCAA that have zero to do with competitive advantages, recruiting, players, or activities on the field of play. They should be punished and punished hard.
And FYI, no kid at PSU will be harmed, nor current coaches. They can all go play or work at other schools.
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All-TigerNet [10469]
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NCAA does have the right to assert jurisdiction
Jul 12, 2012, 1:06 PM
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They sent a letter to PSU on Nov. 17, invoking that right and within minutes of the release of the Freeh Report this morning, they stated that again. I'm not sure how they would fashion the potential penalties, however, aside from the so-called death penalty, and I don't that will or should be an option. Perhaps a lengthy probabion and financial penalties would be appropriate.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I never believed that Joe Pa was the saint that the
Jul 12, 2012, 1:06 PM
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portrayed him as.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Same here, typial kool aid drinkers. Every program has them
Jul 12, 2012, 1:14 PM
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including us. They post on TNET daily. For all the high and mighty talk on here these kool aid drinkers would do the exact same thing. Look how quickly TNET jumped to give Sammy a pass.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: There is a WORLD of difference between Sammie and
Jul 12, 2012, 1:23 PM
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this. It is stupid to even mention it in the same sentence. I didn't like what Sammie did but it is nowhere close.
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Rock Defender [54]
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If you used your reading comp skills and common sense you'd
Jul 12, 2012, 1:27 PM
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see I in no way compared Sammy's situation to PSU. I was talking about TNET posters. And if you think kool aid drinkers on TNET wouldn't act the same way as the kool aid drinkers at PSU and in their fan base you are deluding yourself.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: I never believed that Joe Pa was the saint that the
Jul 12, 2012, 1:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: I never believed that Joe Pa was the saint that the ] |
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Don't know many sanctimonious right wingers that are.
One lesson to be learned from all this is that government institutions should not be allowed to delete e-mails. Without them we would never have known the truth, at least not all of it. Bet ole Nimrata Randhawa is about to wet her pants today.
> portrayed him as.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Oh please, liberals are every bit as bad or worse. How many
Jul 12, 2012, 1:22 PM
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times do organizations like NOW or the NAACP, among many other liberal groups, rushing to give a pass to liberals for doing things far less than what would lead to a conservative getting fired or sent to jail.
Liberals repeatedly make the same stupid mistake thinking all conservatives are Republicans, or that all Republicans or conservatives are part of the religious right.
The religious right is a small part of the Republican party and it has been losing strength for years. The only reason they have a voice is because the liberal media magnifies them to manipulate liberals and form anti-Republican public opinion.
I'm a hard core conservative, and I'm neither Republican nor religious. I'm an agnostic libertarian.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I hope that you still have time to change.***
Jul 12, 2012, 1:26 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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There's nothing wrong with me, but per usual Christians
Jul 12, 2012, 1:30 PM
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constantly judge despite the teachings of the one you say you follow. I'll take being a good agnostic over being a bad Christian any day. But you are welcome to your misguided judgmental opinion.
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CU Guru [1363]
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By your argument, no one should ever be judged, meaning
Jul 12, 2012, 3:07 PM
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anyone should get away with doing anything. I don't think that's what you meant to say.
Judging is different than prosecuting
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Rock Defender [54]
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Varsity [247]
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I'm guessing...
Jul 12, 2012, 1:14 PM
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those clemson fans that think penn state will get the death penalty are the same ones that thought we would move to the big 12. I offer them the same response "IT AIN'T HAPPENING!"
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Rock Defender [54]
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No one is saying they WILL we are saying they SHOULD but
Jul 12, 2012, 1:24 PM
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per usual, reading comp skills and common sense on TNET are precious commodities.
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Commissioner [940]
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Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 12, 2012, 1:15 PM
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I think this is so far past a football problem, I wouldn't know where to start other than putting one sicko in prison. and I am sure he will get his once they find out what he is there for.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Shut em down!***
Jul 12, 2012, 1:31 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 12, 2012, 2:04 PM
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There was a time when I thought the buttwhuppin we got in the Orange Bowl was bad.
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Walk-On [129]
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Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 12, 2012, 2:15 PM
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What happened at PSU did not give them a competetive advantage on the field or recruiting or in any financial manner.... I do not think the NCAA should get involved.
That said, PSU will be in massive litigation and will be paying huge sums of settlement money over the next few years. JoePa's legacy is forever disgraced.
Sad situation.
-ZA
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All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
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Why punish today's players, fans, coaches, and
Jul 12, 2012, 2:20 PM
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administration for the perps' crimes. Collectivism is never the [right] answer. Just throw all the perps in jail (or under it) and spit on Joe Pa's grave every chance you get.
NCAA sanctions are always ridiculous. Coaches and players cheat and move on while everyone else suffers. Justice is common sensical.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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1st a football program is a privilege, not a right. 2nd no
Jul 13, 2012, 3:36 AM
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current coach or player would be harmed. They can all go play or coach somewhere else. The school should be punished because it knew, enabled, and covered up these crimes and broke federal laws. The fans? Tough! Life ain't fair and dozens of lives have been shattered. If we are going to live in a moral society and country of laws, people and institutions must be help accountable and strong messages sent to others.
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Enthusiast [143]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 154
Joined: 7/8/12
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Re: death penalty proposal for penn st. football
Jul 13, 2012, 12:21 AM
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The BOT at PSU should shut down their program for 2-3 years due to their own internal failures. I don't think the NCAAhas the balls to drop the DP on them despite this being the most flagrant lack of institutional control ever.
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Aficionado [151]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 341
Joined: 7/8/11
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Seriously doubt it
Jul 13, 2012, 4:21 AM
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First of all the NCAA tries to regulate colleges and universities by imposing and enforcing a set of rules. You cant inforce a rule if there is no rule. I dont know but I'd be suprised if there was a Section 118 paragraph 72: "No coaches showering with young boys shall be permitted...." I do know that a coach can pee on main street in greenville and not anything to worry about as far as the NCAA.
Lack of institutional control? I dont know if thats going to stick either. Not to take this lightly but i dont think they did anything to give themselves an unfair advantage on the field, or in the classroom. While what happened there is discusting, I dont know if the NCAA has the authority to enforce punishment for the gross felony criminal charges...I mean these are charges that will be worked out in court rooms, with jurys, and rightfully so.
The NCAA doesnt punish you for breaking federal laws, they punish you for breaking NCAA rules. What kind of crazy precedent would this set? NCAA isnt punishing campuses with high rape or domestic abuse statistics are they?
Penn State football is forever stained with this...nothing could make this any worse for Penn State.
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