Replies: 58
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 13, 2019, 11:46 AM
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Socialist may choose both responses.
Others pick one. [Results]
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Yes it's OK, Hillary/DNC and FBI did nothing wrong |
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No, it's evil and unAmerican, impeach Trump now |
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 13, 2019, 11:51 AM
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Trump said it's okay. I guess it is.
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Legend [17797]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 13, 2019, 12:23 PM
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Agreed. I allow the phrase "WWTD?" to guide my daily actions and I have never been happier or more financially successful or more attractive to the opposite sex.
Still, it may be the S3x Panther I started wearing a few years back:
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know if it's "OK" by law or not...
Jun 13, 2019, 11:52 AM
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I would say it's morally wrong to listen to "dirt" being said by anyone about anyone, in any context of life.
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All-In [26968]
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I would like to add more color to my answer...
Jun 13, 2019, 12:34 PM
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I think "dirt" is somewhat of a pejorative term that sounds more like gossip. If someone has knowledge of what they believe to be a crime, then they should tell a law enforcement officer, unless it's a minor crime that doesn't significantly affect anyone else. (Don't call the cops every time you see someone with an expired tag.)
The law enforcement officer should obviously listen to the complaint.
It occurs to me that the President is the nation's chief law enforcement officer.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Someone in law enforcement might be justified in...
Jun 13, 2019, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to I don't know if it's "OK" by law or not... ] |
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entertaining any and all information if that information is believe to reveal a potential crime. Since Trump is head of the executive office to which our justice department answers to it's reasonable to believe that he, as any POTUS would be obligated to listen.
It's not that difficult to find out the truth when you have that much investigative power. At least if there's a suggestion that our law(s) were broken he should refer it to Justice for investigation.
He responded from his position of authority, responsibility and accountability. He was justified in having that response and qualified it by saying it might be shared with law enforcement.
It's possible if Hillary maintained her status as Sec of State she might have been justified in reporting to FBI also.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Someone in law enforcement might be justified in...
Jun 18, 2019, 3:57 PM
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entertaining any and all information if that information is believe to reveal a potential crime. Since Trump is head of the executive office to which our justice department answers to it's reasonable to believe that he, as any POTUS would be obligated to listen.
It's not that difficult to find out the truth when you have that much investigative power. At least if there's a suggestion that our law(s) were broken he should refer it to Justice for investigation.
He responded from his position of authority, responsibility and accountability. He was justified in having that response and qualified it by saying it might be shared with law enforcement.
It's possible if Hillary maintained her status as Sec of State she might have been justified in reporting to FBI also.
Wrong. Trump wasn't the "head of the executive office" at the time, he was a candidate.
In so far as after being Potus, having all that investigative power and it's results, in Helsinki he said, quite plainly, that he didn't believe all that investigative power but instead, believed Vladimir.
Is there ever a defense of Trump that doesn't include Hillary? Would sure love to hear one.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 13, 2019, 11:56 AM
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If criminal and able to corroborate the dirt. 100%
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All-In [26968]
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How do you know whether you can corroborate
Jun 13, 2019, 11:59 AM
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or if it's criminal if you haven't taken the information yet?
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: How do you know whether you can corroborate
Jun 13, 2019, 12:14 PM
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A source that has criminal information on someone and says it can be verified is how nearly every investigative article is verified and written
Same applies here too.
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All-In [26968]
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OK.***
Jun 13, 2019, 12:23 PM
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Commissioner [941]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 13, 2019, 12:01 PM
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Hillary Clinton did it!
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 13, 2019, 12:26 PM
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Since they haven’t locked her up, I’m guessing it’s legal then?
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 14, 2019, 1:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll ] |
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Hillary Clinton did it!
If she did it isn't a problem. TRump said it was okay, even if Russia or China is offering.
And by the way. NONE of the Steele dossier was ever released to the public. It was leaked by Buzzfeed.
Seems Hillary go ripped off? And by the way, Hillary isn't and wasn't the chief law enforcemenmt officer in the country.
Not sure you understand the difference so but, but, but Hillary all you want.
Doesn't make Trump less culpable at all.
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Legend [15492]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 18, 2019, 3:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll ] |
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Hillary Clinton did it!
If Clinton did it, why didn't she release it to the public?
You know, like Comey released Clintion's investigation to the public.
McCabe leaked to the public that the FBI was investigation the Clinton Foundation.
But magically, all the dirt Hilldawg got from the Russian's on Trump...she kept to herself?
It's amazing what people are willing to believe. No wonder Fox News makes so much money.
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All-In [47799]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 13, 2019, 12:02 PM
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 14, 2019, 8:56 PM
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Congress shall make no law respects://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdfecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (hostile foreign speak consisting of lies and propaganda intended to rob our elections and democracy is not covered under the Free Speech Clause - See statutes on Espionage/ toor abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. d
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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depends on who does it***
Jun 13, 2019, 12:30 PM
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CU Medallion [58433]
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We take information from foreign governments all of the time
Jun 13, 2019, 1:07 PM
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Taking the info isn’t wrong
Jun 13, 2019, 1:12 PM
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It to say Hilldawg and the FBI did nothing wrong is an entirely different question.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Taking the info isn’t wrong
Jun 14, 2019, 8:58 PM
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It to say Hilldawg and the FBI did nothing wrong is an entirely different question.
The key there would be Hostile as opposed to Allies.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Our Senators and ambassadors meet with foreign...
Jun 16, 2019, 7:28 PM
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dignitaries all the time and discuss everything from war with our enemies to what color they like best. The only rule to what you hear is don't tell where it came from because the other political party is going to make hay with it if you do.
Most, if not all politicians if offered dirt on their opponents from the devil would be boarding a plane to helll before the day is over. Perhaps no one wants to admit it but it's true.
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Oculus Spirit [97746]
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Only if it comes from Russian intelligence and is funneled
Jun 13, 2019, 1:59 PM
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Through a middleman in British intelligence. In that case you can get search warrants to investigate the candidate and conduct a 2 year investigation based on nothing.
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Legend [18026]
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Steele took it to the FBI.
Jun 13, 2019, 3:27 PM
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The FBI and OUR intelligence agencies decided it was worth investigating (both Steele and our own intelligence agencies knew much of it was fake info from the Russians, but not all) and, if you've seen/read the Mueller Report, there were/are real connections. I don't know what world you live in where what you wrote seems like reality, but it's not one that exists.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Steele released it to the media with a grand desire...
Jun 13, 2019, 3:37 PM
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to get it published before the 2016 election. He was a bad player.
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Legend [18026]
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Maybe. But, a "bad player" that notified the FBI.***
Jun 13, 2019, 3:48 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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The FBI knew he was a bad player from the gitgo.
Jun 13, 2019, 3:53 PM
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The state department and Bruce Ohr both notified them that he couldn't be trusted to tell the truth about Trump because his bias was so strong. The FBI fired him because he leaked to the media. Trusted source? Please.
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Legend [18026]
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Trusted as much as Trump and yet he went to FBI.
Jun 13, 2019, 3:57 PM
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That's the point. I'm not going to argue with you about Steele's information or intention, that's a different argument that you're trying to move the conversation into. The point is, whatever attempt Tig was trying to make to defend Trump was an absurd one.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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He was working for the FBI when he went to Russia.
Jun 14, 2019, 9:08 AM
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Don't get tunnel vision here. Steele was a contractor for the FBI and he was dismissed only after he leaked to the media. It's wasn't about him leaking, it was about distancing the FBI from guilt. Even after that they continued to use Steele's work to procure FISA warrants.
Show me a law against taking dirt on a political opponent from anyone.
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Legend [18026]
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It's part of federal campaign election laws:
Jun 14, 2019, 4:01 PM
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campaigns can't take money or "things of value" from foreign sources.
From Mueller Report: "These authorities would support the view that candidate-related opposition research given to a campaign for the purpose of influencing an election could constitute a contribution to which the foreign-source ban could apply. A campaign can be assisted not only by the provision of funds, but also by the provision of derogatory information about an opponent. Political campaigns frequently conduct and pay for opposition research. A foreign entity that engaged in such researchand provided resulting information to a campaign could exert a greater effect on an election, and a greater tendency to ingratiate the donor to the candidate, than a gift of money or tangible things of value."
The bold is to also point out that even if what you say about Steele is true, it shows him working as not a foreign entity, right? He was working for domestic agencies in FusionGPS/Hillary/FBI. Using Steele to defend Trump's words/actions is dumb.
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Legend [18026]
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From FEC Chair:
Jun 14, 2019, 4:11 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Did Steele become an American citizen all of a sudden?
Jun 14, 2019, 4:43 PM
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I probably need to keep up better.
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Legend [18026]
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We both agree you do.***
Jun 14, 2019, 4:50 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: From FEC Chair:
Jun 16, 2019, 7:39 PM
[ in reply to From FEC Chair: ] |
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Pffft, what could she know. She's only the Chair of the Federal Election system.
In Trump speak, "She's probably a democrat or Obummer appointee so ignore her.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Trump took no action(s).
Jun 14, 2019, 4:42 PM
[ in reply to It's part of federal campaign election laws: ] |
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He was responding to a hypothetical question. Even if you think he gave the wrong answer he broke no laws and there's nothing you can do but whine.
Mueller foolishly tried to put a monetary value on words then rationalized how receiving information from foreign govs was wrong. Did Mueller say what Trump's campaign got from Russia? I didn't see that. What exactly did Trump learn which helped him defeat Hillary? How can nothing have value no matter what quantity of nothing you assess.
I don't believe the source of the information Steele sold to Fusion, the FBI, DNC and Hillary's campaign was Russia. It's was all about Russia and purported to have taken place in Russia and Steele went to Russia but to our knowledge nothing he reported is verified. It was all lies.
However, I doubt you'll ever understand how common it is for American politicians to seek help from foreign govs to get elected so I'll just leave this here.
In the 1990s the Red Chinese army poured millions of dollars into Bill Clinton's campaign to help him in the election, the Reaidy Group/Chong and the rest, remember that? The LA Times was the only entity who got worked up about it.
Ted Kennedy used surrogates to contact the KGB to help dems to defeat Reagan.
Receiving help never seemed to be a problem for dems before.
Still Trump did nothing wrong since neither of them suspected of conspiring with Russia were even charged with a crime. It was all a hoax perpetrated by Obama, Hillary the DNC, FBI and Obama's Justice Dept.
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Legend [18026]
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No one is saying he committed a crime in what he said
Jun 14, 2019, 5:14 PM
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people are, rightfully, upset that he is saying a crime isn't a crime and that he'd be okay with committing the crime. If the meeting Don Jr. took was to get information on Hillary Clinton, then that, itself, is the crime. It'd be like saying, "Yes I tried to rob the bank, but I didn't take any money so you can't charge me with a crime!"
I think you're a pretty intelligent guy CT88, but I do not know how you have gotten yourself so profoundly taken by these hucksters into thinking this is all a conspiracy/hoax against Trump.
I'll leave this here: https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/jul/18/greg-gutfeld/fox-news-host-cites-ted-kennedy-kgb-meeting-never-/
Pointing to other's misdeeds as defense isn't a great plan because it just makes it seem like you are acknowledging the truth of the argument you are trying to argue isn't true.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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'What aboutism,' is a daily staple here.
Jun 14, 2019, 6:21 PM
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It has one value. It reveals the self-righteousness which highlights the hypocrisy on both sides.
When I pointed to Hillary saying she sought and used foreign gov dirt on Trump I didn't say 'lock her up.' I was saying it happens all the time and wondering how the left is now so upset that Trump only speculated that he would listen to what was to be said.
Do I personally think it's wrong? Imo, it's no more wrong that skirting rules in football such as the rub route. Unethical? Maybe but politicians set standard then never live up to them. I've never seen a politician who wouldn't at least want to know dirt on a political opponent. Maybe Carter, maybe.
I apologize for my not properly saying that. It all seemed so obvious to me. If I'm upset with Trump about it I assure you I believe he's a troll who ought to say less but still, I've no doubt he's a troll.
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Legend [18026]
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We are just going in circles now.
Jun 14, 2019, 6:42 PM
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You are still citing Hillary/Steele as a defense and we've already covered why that's not comparable so there's no reason to keep going with it.
You think breaking campaign laws and welcoming foreign interference into our elections (from hostile governments) is akin to the rub route in football. Cool.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Just what part of me saying...
Jun 14, 2019, 7:19 PM
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'Hillary did nothing wrong by seeking and paying for dirt on Trump from Russia which was laundered through a law office, an opposition research firm, a citizen from another country,' don't you get? Go back and read the selections in the poll.
Stop justifying something which requires no justification unless you differentiate the two by the letter by the name.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Legend [18026]
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Like I said, circles.***
Jun 14, 2019, 8:07 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: The FBI knew he was a bad player from the gitgo.
Jun 14, 2019, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to The FBI knew he was a bad player from the gitgo. ] |
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The state department and Bruce Ohr both notified them that he couldn't be trusted to tell the truth about Trump because his bias was so strong. The FBI fired him because he leaked to the media. Trusted source? Please.
The LEAK in question was him informing the media that the FGI had opened an inbestigation into the Clinton Foundation. Surely a gift to Trump and the far right. Yeah, lets burn him.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Based on this thread, the republic is lost
Jun 13, 2019, 10:49 PM
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The fact most responses here don’t acknowledge that this is actually a serious problem is the worst indicator I’ve seen in a long time that we have crossed the threshold of ignorance.
This country is toast.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Based on this thread, the republic is lost
Jun 13, 2019, 10:49 PM
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The fact most responses here don’t acknowledge that this is actually a serious problem is the worst indicator I’ve seen in a long time that we have crossed the threshold of ignorance.
This country is toast.
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Heisman Winner [111698]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 14, 2019, 7:46 AM
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you seem to forget about the fact that Christopher steel did turn over his findings to the FBI, who then contacted the Trump campaign about the info. Trump on the other hand, made no contact with the FBI when STOLEN classified documents were offered to his campaign by a foreign adversary. We are talking apples vs hand grenades here.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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I have a couple question, balm.
Jun 14, 2019, 9:04 AM
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How would it have helped for Trump to turn that information over to the people who were investigating him at the time? Remember Strzok/page tweet...'No there, there?' There was nothing new to report to the FBI. Mueller discussed every incident known and found no evidence of any American conspiring with Russia to fix the election.
Maybe I forgot about Steele being on the FBI's payroll and maybe you've forgotten about him being fired for leaking to the gov or him being desperate to foul Trump's bid for the Oval Office. So what did Obama's FBI do to keep this foreign agent from messing with the election? NADA but pay him for the information. He was working for them when he fabricated the political hit job at the behest of Hillary/DNC and Obama's administration.
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110%er [6101]
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Sure why not?
Jun 14, 2019, 7:18 PM
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The DNC/Clinton paid Russians for a false anti-Trump dossier that they then used against the Trump campaign. So why not?
You’re one of the more lucid people here. I’m sure you see what Trumps actually doing with that statement of his....
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Re: Sure!
Jun 15, 2019, 1:35 PM
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When the indictment fall on those who spied on his campaign and used opposition research to do it he's going to highlight the double standards of the media, congressional dems and dem supporters.
It's called shoving it up someone's butt with a fence post.
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 16, 2019, 11:42 AM
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its not ok at all. Its crazy how this President has taken things that any good American should know and do and made it ok to do the opposite. Its even weirder seeing Repubs (the party always claiming to be the Most American, law and order, and all that stuff) twist and contort themselves into knots to defend this idiots comments
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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What's crazy is those going apenuts over Trump saying...
Jun 16, 2019, 7:24 PM
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he would take dirt on a political opponent and ignoring that Hillary, the FBI and DNC paid for dirt on Trump. All this bad mouthing Trump over his words will bite you one of these days.
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Legend [15492]
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Is there every going to be an evaluation of Trump's behavior
Jun 16, 2019, 7:35 PM
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without someone limping in with "Hillary is just as bad"?
No offense, but those are the most childish and misleading of all defensive's of Trump.
The question of his behavior is side stepped as if it has no meaning. Rather, if hillary or Obama even came close to the same behavior...then Trump is guilty of nothing.
The Trump campaign happily embraced Russian help during the 2016 election. But that isn't a problem because a law firm that was employed by, first by republicans, then by the DNC apparently used recieved mostly bogus info on Trump's Pee Tapes. What seems lost or intentionally ignored by Trump supporters is that the information from STeele was never, ever used during the campaign.
Trump supporters are fast becoming the most intentionally ignorant for so blinded by hatred for "Liberals" that they seem to dismiss in semblence of rational thought.
God help you.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Re: Is there every going to be an evaluation of Trump's behavior
Jun 17, 2019, 2:58 PM
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SO...
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 17, 2019, 3:49 PM
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Can you list as facts that anything Clinton did that was against the law?
Do you acknowledge that Trump swore there was no collusion and then said the other day that collusion with a foreign govt. is fine.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 17, 2019, 10:30 PM
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According to Comey she mishandled classified information by keeping them on a secured server and sending some of them to Weiner's wife who also mishandled them by failing to secure them which allowed Weiner access.
As far as breaking the law by contracting with a law firm to launder information through Fusion GPS who hired Steele to dig in Russian Gov soil. I doubt that's against the law. She got what she and the DNC paid for when Trump underwent four separate investigations and is facing the fifth by House dems.
From your perspective I'd say you got her money's worth.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Is it OK to take information from foreign gov or not? Poll
Jun 17, 2019, 8:40 PM
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It's definitely okay. It would be foolish not to under any circumstances.
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All-In [34113]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 9/13/99
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When did Hillary take info from foreign gov't?***
Jun 17, 2019, 8:57 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 12/25/09
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Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
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Re: Here.
Jun 18, 2019, 4:11 PM
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For the love of all that is Holy, at least read this in order to get your time lines straight. And remember, Steele had NO idea he was working with Clinton in any way. (Yet another fact Fox doesn't want you to know).:
"The Trump–Russia dossier, also known as the Steele dossier,[1] is a private intelligence report written from June to December 2016 containing allegations of misconduct and conspiracy between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and the Government of Russia during the 2016 election. The dossier comprises 17 memos and was authored by Christopher Steele,[2] a former head of the Russia Desk for British intelligence (MI6), for the private investigative firm Fusion GPS. The report alleged that Trump campaign members and Russian operatives conspired to interfere in the election to benefit Trump.[3] It also alleged that Russia sought to damage Hillary Clinton's candidacy, including sharing negative information about Clinton with the Trump campaign.[4] The dossier was published in full by BuzzFeed on January 10, 2017.[5] Several mainstream media outlets criticized BuzzFeed's decision to release it without verifying its allegations,[6][7] while others defended its release.[8]
In October 2015, Fusion GPS was contracted by conservative political website The Washington Free Beacon to provide general opposition research on Trump and other Republican presidential candidates. In April 2016, attorneys for Hillary Clinton's campaign and the DNC separately hired Fusion GPS to investigate Trump, while The Free Beacon stopped its backing in May of 2016.[2] In June 2016, Fusion GPS subcontracted Steele's firm to compile the dossier. Clinton campaign officials were reportedly unaware that Fusion GPS had subcontracted Steele, and he was not told that the Clinton campaign was the recipient of his research.[9][10][verification needed] Following Trump's election as president, funding from Clinton and the DNC ceased, but Steele continued his research and was reportedly paid directly by Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn R. Simpson.[11] While compiling the dossier, Steele passed information to both British and American intelligence services.[12][13]
The media, the intelligence community, and most experts have treated the dossier with caution due to its unverified allegations, while Trump has denounced it as fake news.[14] Russian intelligence agencies have sought to create doubt about the veracity of the dossier.[15] The U.S. intelligence community took the allegations seriously.[16] The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigated every line of the dossier and spoke with two of Steele's sources.[17] The Mueller Report, a summary of the findings of the Special Counsel investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. elections, contained passing references to some of the dossier's allegations but little mention of its more sensational claims.[17] Some allegations of the dossier have been corroborated,[18] however much of the dossier remains unverified. One allegation was rejected by the Mueller Report.[17]
Contrary to repeated assertions by Trump,[19] Fox News,[20] and many of his supporters, the dossier was not the impetus for the opening of the FBI's "Crossfire Hurricane" counterintelligence investigation into possible Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election campaign.[21]"
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 12/25/09
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Well laundered.
Jun 18, 2019, 4:22 PM
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How's that?
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Replies: 58
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