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Topic: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti
Replies: 75   Last Post: Jan 8, 2016, 8:01 AM by: Tigerbalm1®
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Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:02 AM
 

 
Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

Read Update »


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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[3]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:05 AM
 

time for blue ridge security...or snipers

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I believe acts such as this hurt their cause instead of


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:41 AM
 

helping it. Criminals rarely get rewarded or convince others to see things their way. It proves what type of folks are on that side of the issue. If they can't get their way, they will just commit crimes? I believe they would be better served using their time in a more productive manner. GO TIGERS!!

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i see public skewling is helping with their spelling...

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:06 AM
 

that's a plus.

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Have we received a manifesto from The Updyke Army??


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 2:33 PM
 

on a serious note---where is our crack campus police department??? I thought they were on "high alert" after last year's incidents....in addition to Chick-Fil-A, is there a 24-hour Krispy Kreme open in the student union now??

(sorry--this post was supposed to go below the OP)


Message was edited by: tigrjm76®


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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:07 AM
 

Oh boy, not this again.

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Rename it the rainbow and unicorn center

[3]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:09 AM
 

For the politically correct.

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Re: Rename it the rainbow and unicorn center

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:33 AM
 

I agree on changing the name, but never change it when you have people trying to force it to be changed. I mean what else will they vandalize for a change. Never Never reward criminal acts!!!

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i agree about not honoring illegal acts.

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:34 AM
 

Keeping the name will cause the building to be in the news every few months.

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Re: Rename it the rainbow and unicorn center


Posted: Jan 8, 2016, 8:01 AM
 

it should not be renamed, you can not white wash over or forget our past, or we will be doomed to repeat it. If the name brings up this conversation, than that is not necessarily a bad thing.

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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[4]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:10 AM
 

People are idiot's. Wasting your energy on someone long dead. Everyone in history did something bad,( other then this one guy from Nazareth) Not like he was Hitler. Who wasn't racist back then? Every race was racist back then. My father is native American. If you got rid of everyone that wrong native Americans there wouldn't be anyone left. Tillman did one good thing.
GO TIGERS!!!

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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:16 AM
 

Idiots proving and advertising that they are idiots.

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Most Clemson fans don't realize that Tillman Hall

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:25 AM
 

has an exact twin on Winthrop's campus. If Clemson caves, I guess we end up with two Rainbow and Unicorn Centers for the Politically Correct in the state of SC.

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or name it its true historical name.

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:28 AM
 

Not the name Ben tillmans kids lobbied for. Hmm, I guess we don't appreciate the true name.

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Well, to be fair, the "real" name is whatever Clemson

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:15 AM
 

University says it is...which is Tillman Hall.

But for my education, what did it used to be named?

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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:25 AM
 

You are dead on. We can't go through life apologizing for the actions of our ancestors. If we did Germany would still ne apologizing, Japan would be knocking on doors in Hawaii saying they were sorry, and the federal government and most of the American citizens would be apologizing to native Americans. I am so over this group that wants to be pandered to. The reparation crowd. It seems to me that instead of making their own way in this world by learning from the mistakes of the past, they want to do nothing but ask to be rewarded due to these past mistakes. By doing this they are not moving forward but are being defined by those mistakes. In other words MOVE ON people.

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The Japanese made the holocaust look like summer camp.***

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:43 AM
 



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idk


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 5:04 PM
 

close call.

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why don't we change the name?

[3]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:15 AM
 

There isn't a valid argument for keeping the name. The building was renamed Tillman. It's not historical. It was something his children pushed for.

I also understand the argument of it being a slippery slope, but there is a big difference in owning slaves and running on white supremacy, including murdering black people.

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Re: why don't we change the name?

emoji_events [12]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:23 AM
 

The main reason is with these people it is never enough. It will be the start about renaming everything on campus that hurts there feelings or whatever. And when they finally want to rename the University because Mr. Clemson owned slaves, are you ok with that too?

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Once again, show me where Thomas Greene Clemson murdered innocent black people


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:26 AM
 

In the mame of white rights? People are acting like Tillman was the same as any other person during this time. He ran on white supremacy. Big difference.

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Re: Once again, show me where Thomas Greene Clemson murdered innocent black people

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:30 AM
 

Typical. Don't read, ignore the comment -nothing will ever be enough. Go back to last time, they have already identified other buildings that they don't feel comfortable in because of the names. And I'd be willing to bet none of them ever thought of it until some looney-left professor told them to be offended.

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those "looney" professors are the reason Clemson is a college.

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:37 AM
 

Most professors tend to lean towards the liberal side, but a college can't run without professors. While I was studying economics at Clemson I learned more from the professors that I didn't share the same beliefs with. You don't always have to agree with someone. It is good to understand someone else's point of view though.

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practice what you preach and we don't have this conversation***


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:46 AM
 



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How is he NOT practicing EXACTLY what he's preaching???***


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 12:00 PM
 



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Re: Once again, show me where Thomas Greene Clemson murdered innocent black people

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:39 AM
 

No, he has a point....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Calhoun

Do we erase him from the school too? Or the White House?...the history of the US?

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Re: Once again, show me where Thomas Greene Clemson murdered innocent black people

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:43 AM
 

Don't forget what is named after him:

Calhoun Honors College
http://www.clemson.edu/cuhonors/

Fort Hill (John C. Calhoun Mansion):
http://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/

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where is this relevant?


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:46 AM
 

I didn't realize those buildings were vandalized also. When are we voting to take down the state flag also. I assume it's next since they voted to take down the confederate flag. I didn't see where we are taking down the American flag yet either.

People always act like it's going to be the end of the world.

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What it today's culture leads you to the conclusion

[3]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:19 AM
 

that this would end with the renaming of Tillman Hall?

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The idiots at William and Mary want to get rid of the Thomas


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 5:29 PM
 

Jefferson statue because he owned slaves. Get a clue. Nothing is ever enough for these precious snow flakes that melt at everything.

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Re: why don't we change the name?

[4]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:25 AM
 

The problem with trying to white wash history is that history can't be white washed.

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Because renaming it won't change anything.***

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:25 AM
 



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: why don't we change the name?


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:26 AM
 

Vandalizing the bricks isn't the way to get that done; it'll probably just create more divisiveness and overshadow the sane and civil points made by those who'd like the name change.

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Re: why don't we change the name?

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:27 AM
 

You are right, no argument to keep the name so we'll just leave it as it is. Go Tillman Hall!

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So You Are in Favor of Scrubbing History?

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:29 AM
 

Good, bad or indifferent the people of these time are who they are and rather than looking at the culture of the times of 100 years ago through the eyes of people from this time and thinking some berated acted will do anything but anger people is comical.

People who are offended at Tilman in this day and age is part of the professional activism that has entered into our society. Being offended for the sake of being offended is what this is about.

History is full of great people that did bad things. That is how we learn an grow.

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The buildings history is Clemson Main Building...

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:33 AM
 

And feel free to continue to TD me because you disagree with my post, even if I'm not being offensive. I'm sorry I'm engaging in a debate about an issue that's not going away. People can act like everything is happy, but younger generations are leading the movement. I'm 25, and I consider myself to be in the middle of most topics. I also know there are way bigger issue to argue than a building name. Just like people argued the confederate flag, and how did that work out. The state is still running the same....

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Just What Movement are you "leading"


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:49 AM
 

The Mensheviks VS Bolsheviks?

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Re: So You Are in Favor of Scrubbing History?

[3]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:04 AM
 

Murders and racial supremacists are not "great people". This isn't political correctness but simply using the benefit of time and perspective to realize this man does not deserve this honor on our great campus.

It's not like anyone is making this stuff up. You can read his thoughts in his own words. He was vile. He should be mentioned prominently in Clemson's history. Don't erase his name from the books and act like he never existed. But at the same time, don't honor him today.

Old Main sounds great to me.

Also, whoever vandalized the bricks are idiot(s) and are not helping the case of reasoned people to make this change in a thoughtful way.

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Re: why don't we change the name?

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:38 AM
 

But I love some slippery slopes!!!;)

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the Heritage Act was passed by the

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:41 AM
 

South Carolina legislature to prevent the onslaught of renaming historical bldgs/hwys/ etc. Renaming Tillman Hall requires a vote of the SC Legislature.


Message was edited by: Tiger Nana®


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I'm for going about it the legal way.


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:43 AM
 

I just understand that their will be a day that the building isn't called Tillman hall. That's the reality. Many people thought the confederate flag issue was over when it didn't change in the early 2000s

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Re: I'm for going about it the legal way.


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:53 AM
 

You may be correct but right now, there is no legal way to change it.

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Is not Princeton's Main Building Called Alumni Hall?


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:04 AM
 

I agree.

I could add more ... reasons etc., but I'll keep it short ... I agree.

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FINALLY someone who can see the difference!


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:08 AM
 

When people make that "slippery slope" argument, I always respond the same way when it comes to this issue: there is one thing to honor great Americans who held racist beliefs. If we made that the standard, then 99% of white men could not be honored. It is a totally different thing to honor an American, REGARDLESS of what good he's done, that was a mass murdering terrorist that bragged about it!

Where else in this country do we honor such people EXCEPT when it comes to those who have committed crimes against native Americans (which is a totally different discussion)?

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Re: FINALLY someone who can see the difference!

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 12:48 PM
 

One day in the far future, will those folks have to apologize for putting the name Jim Dandy on grits. We can find billions of issues that wasn't issues in 1492. So I ask, do we vandalize property to resolve those issues??? Let us all get a life and live with what we were left with and live on. Let the future decide if our issues were really an issue.

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Slippery Slope Indeed


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:31 AM
 

Watched any of the stuff going on at Mizzou? You want that crap around here? Give up your inch and watch them grab a mile and then some!

http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=18732271

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Yea, how dare they demand their President give a d@mn***


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:37 AM
 



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Re: Yea, how dare they demand their President give a d@mn***

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:58 AM
 

There are much larger problems in the world than a building named for a guy with some really bad views and behaviors on race (juxtaposed with a real hatred of aristocracy). Besides if you want to open this can of worms what about everything named for Washington & Jefferson (both slave holders), not to mention Calhoun who single-handedly set the stage for the Civil War by using States Rights as a defense for slavery.

There are bad, imperfect people littered throughout history who have been found to do a good thing even in the midst of their brokenness. Instead obsessing on the sins of the past why not take it as a warning how not to behave and deal with the issues of the present.

Issues like needing alternative energy sources, groups like ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, and Al Quieda, the national debt, world hunger, nuclear proliferation in North Korea and Iran, and conserving the environment. Resolving any one of these things will greatly benefit our children and our children's children. Why not place our efforts where they will do the most good?

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Re: Yea, how dare they demand their President give a d@mn***


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 2:38 PM
 

If the Clemson BOT had it within their power to destroy ISIS, I would agree with you.

Seeing that their scope and influence is mostly limited to Clemson related issues, it is entirely appropriate for them to do the right thing and remove this honor from Tillman.

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Re: Yea, how dare they demand their President give a d@mn***


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 4:15 PM
 

That would be just to easy, people want to worry about BS that will cause hate among our own. That makes a whole lot of sense worrying about non sense doesn't it. Art Linkletter had a TV show about, KIDS SAY THE DARNDEST THINGS, while people across the world were laughing, no body ever stop to think that what those kids were saying, was the dumbest chit they were hearing their adult parents say. Change starts with what we teach our children. If we really want change, change what and how we teach our children when they're at their most impressible ages!!! It's just to easy to understand without complicating everything in a simple process. No, I don't have all the answers, I just know that our future begins at birth and ends with death. And what we are taught from birth until we are adults, is usually what values we will live by until death.

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Because US citizens do not have the right


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 4:24 PM
 

to never be offended. People born from about 1975 on seem to think that was part of the Bill of Rights or something, or maybe a clause in one of the other entitlements.

Whitewashing history doesn't change it.

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Re: Because US citizens do not have the right


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 4:53 PM
 

Don't change history. His contributions don't change. It is what it is.

What we need to change is removing an honor bestowed in the 1950's to a murderer. Changing the name of the building (again) does not change history in any way.

No slippery slope. No interlorance here. Just want my alma mater to correct an error and do the right thing.

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Because NO ONE cares or thinks about Ben Tillman


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:03 PM
 

The name "Tillman Hall" has become its own icon and is so massively removed from a guy named Ben Tillman that the ties are essentially meaningless at this point. Honestly, no one cares about Ben Tillman and no one is interested in honoring him.

However, we like the name "Tillman" simply because it is the title we've grown to love. At this point in Clemson's culture, we've completely lost all sense of who it was named after to the point where no one other than a local historian could recall the reason. As far as we see it, no tie exists and anyone demanding that the name be changed is attempting to make a futile argument that anyone on or off campus cared about Ben Tillman at all.

Why not change the name? Because we love the word. We love the sound of it. It's very simple and it honestly has no deeper meaning than that.

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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[3]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:25 AM
 

Some honored on currency owned slaves. Half those honors with buildings, bridges, and monuments owned slaves or were guilty of some corruption at one time or another. The fact is, a person can be instrumental in the creation, nurturing, or advancement of something good and still not be perfect. I mean...look in the mirror.

Folks, when we allow ourselves to embrace this slippery slope, we allow hypocrisy to even more overtly rule the world. The people ascribing to such nonsense, if genuinely concerned about the "honor" bestowed on the "undeserving," should thoroughly investigate all companies from which they purchase goods and services. They would find that they've been willingly giving money in support of numerous causes that they do not support. Also, these folks should refuse to accept any bills or coinage depicting the faces of certain despicable slave owners.

The dead is dead. No one is speaking Tillman's name in support of some current racial divide...except the (racist?) ones making it an issue. When you sow discord, you will reap discord. I supported the removal of the Confederate battle flag because it IS a symbol that, by its very nature (hello, battle flag) is divisive. A person's name - not so much. If we go there, then look out Malcolm X.

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Install trail cameras or comparable, please. Known target.***

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:26 AM
 



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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:30 AM
 

Ah jeez not this #### again.

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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:34 AM
 

Keep it Tillman. And I have, like, at least 3 black friends that can vouch for me not being racist.

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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:35 AM
 

It's easy to say it's not a big deal about the name if you're not African American. Tillman was known for killing African Americans, but he have a building in his name. ?

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Why even give the vandals their "15 minutes of fame" ???

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:36 AM
 

Report the vandalism....Don't show it.
Cameras and LE do their job and prosecute.
Pretty #### simple.

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Crminals going to commit crimes.***


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:41 AM
 



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man I hate pressure washing***

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:52 AM
 



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Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


why not getting surveillance***

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:57 AM
 



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Are there no security cameras on campus? I have a dozen


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 10:59 AM
 

in one office...anything that happens in or around the building is recorded, 24X7.

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Finebaum did it...

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:01 AM
 

Saw his Baby New Year ears sticking out of those bushes.

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Idiots man... Put a poster board sign up instead of ruining someone's property


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:01 AM
 

This is not an intelligent way to protest. Pompous white liberals with a white guilt complex are probably the most useless people on earth. They serve no purpose. They think they make a difference but if they really boiled it down they would find out that no one but them cares about this.

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It's telling that the "tolerant" types aren't so tolerant .

[4]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:05 AM
 

They want the name changed b/c they hate bigotry and fancy themselves open-minded, tolerant, progressive, thinkers within the marketplace of ideas . . . and yet they stoop to vandalism to make their point. Actually, they made the point quite well, although not the one they assumed. They clarified how tolerant they actually are. And as it turns out, the intoleristas aren't as tolerant as they demand everyone else be.

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Be careful lumping everyone together

[1]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:18 AM
 

Saying that the "tolerant" types aren't really tolerant and advocate vandalism as a viable form of protest is as irresponsible as saying that anyone who opposes the Tillman Hall name change is a racist. THAT individual idiot vandalized the building. That shouldn't be an indictment on everyone who opposes the name.

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I was plenty careful enough . . .

[2]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 12:01 PM
 

I didn't offer any universal assertion down to every last individua - it was a generalization about how tolerant the tolerance police are. Exceptions don't make generalizations false, they in fact prove the rule. And generalizations by definition allow for them.

Furthermore, the even that generalization isn't about graffiti or vandalism per se, but about the ubiquitous intolerance of the tolerance enforcement crowd, in whatever form it takes. Whether it's vandalism, shouting down a lecturer, unwillingness to tolerate divergence of academic or scholarly opinion from "un-PC" viewpoints about sexual ethics, global warming, and the like, or whether it's fining bakers, photographers, and wedding planners for turning down same-sex couple's, the general but overwhelming trend in our society is that the ones proclaiming tolerance and understanding, are, at every turn, enforcing their intolerance on those who step out of line - and by coercion and intimidation, not via the marketplace of ideas.

So yeah, I was plenty careful enough.

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Probably coots trying to stir up the football team


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:21 AM
 

From time to time, I see posts and tweets about it (since Missouri). Keep your eyes open when you are online.

Do you think the timing is coincidental?

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I feel like when you make the decision to go to a University

[4]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 11:34 AM
 

you go there accepting it for what it is, what it was, and you need to accept all the history that goes along with it. If you don't like something the University is or was at one time, then don't go there. And don't go there with the expectation of changing everything on Campus that may hurt your feelings. Just accept that times are always changing. Accept that there is plenty of history all around you everywhere you go that you probably don't agree with. The important thing is you should choose to go to Clemson, or anywhere, because of what it is now, and what it will be. Spend your energy on changing the future, not erasing the past.

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Gantt Hall? Old Main? Dabo's House?***


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 2:03 PM
 



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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 2:41 PM
 

Time to change the name. The University is just stalling. You do NOT HONOR
persons that murder people---no matter what else they have done.

With 2 Clemson degrees I have a great appreciation for history--but
this is time to change. Almost all my classes were in this building and
the name can be changed.

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Sigh. Once again, the SC LEGISLATURE is the only


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 3:20 PM
 

entity which can rename Tillman Hall or any other public bldg/hwy/etc. that has been officially named. They do not want to open those flood gates, hence the Heritage Act.

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Re: Campus Update: Tillman Hall vandalized again with graffiti


Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 4:17 PM
 

It is a small minority that won't let go. Move on! We can't rename every building or statue because someone is offended.
Gee....

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According to Wikipedia

[3]
Posted: Jan 7, 2016, 5:44 PM
 

In 1901 President Theodore Roosevelt had dinner with Booker T. Washington at the White House.

According to Wikipedia:
Senator Benjamin Tillman from South Carolina remarked, "The action of President Roosevelt in entertaining that ###### will necessitate our killing a thousand ####### in the South before they will learn their place again.

The people who wan't to retain the name Tillman Hall do so merely because that's what it's been called since 1942. The name was changed from "Old Main Hall" by Tillman's son. That isn't so much about honoring Tillman as it is keeping a 50 + yr tradition. They see the "what" of the building

The people who wan't to change the name appear to look at the person whose name the building honors. They see the "who" of the building.

There's reasonable arguments on both sides. But if you ask anyone who's attended the University or has been associated with it in any way they'll tell you they themselves do not honor Tillman because of who and what he was.

Change the name. Clemson is far better than him. It's like your father being a murderer but you grow up to be a judge. Your life doesn't in any way reflect the life of your father. It doesn't mean the father never existed. But it does mean that you've grown beyond what your father embraced.

my 2 cents.

Go Tigers!

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Change the name to Arsenio.


Posted: Jan 8, 2016, 7:50 AM
 

nm

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