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Rock Defender [54]
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Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 12:23 PM
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They're basically killing machines that we act like are pets. Why?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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or we could go full spartan and yute in asia all the
Mar 11, 2015, 12:26 PM
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dupey peoples?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: or we could go full spartan and yute in asia all the
Mar 11, 2015, 12:28 PM
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Yes, we could. I'm not sure what that process entails but I'm down
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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we'll need a champion, a mission statement & a group
Mar 11, 2015, 12:37 PM
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of the well-intended with time to spare for the early planning stages.
there's a lot of good that can come of this, but we need to be wary of jumping to the solution phase hurrying while hoping to make the happy hours & the tipsy lasses that frequent them.
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Legend [16158]
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Same reason we make cares that exceed the speed limit?***
Mar 11, 2015, 12:29 PM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Well see, the speed limit varies from road to road, so not
Mar 11, 2015, 12:31 PM
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really fair to make a car that will only do 60 when you get on an Interstate where the limit is 70 huh? I know, I know, mind blown...
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Legend [16158]
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We don't make cars that exceed 70 mph? My mind is blown***
Mar 11, 2015, 12:32 PM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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My car would NEVER do above 70. Its the sweetest and
Mar 11, 2015, 12:35 PM
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most gentle car that anyone has ever owned.
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Legend [16158]
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If you raised your car correctly, it shouldn't do above 70***
Mar 11, 2015, 12:36 PM
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Team Captain [484]
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Re: If you raised your car correctly, it shouldn't do above 70***
Mar 11, 2015, 12:39 PM
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My truck has been so obedient since I removed its truck nuts.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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They're raised correctly all the time, just go read the news
Mar 11, 2015, 12:40 PM
[ in reply to If you raised your car correctly, it shouldn't do above 70*** ] |
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"sweetest pet we've ever owned, I NEVER DREAMED it would do something like this."
It's a vicious breed, that's what they do.
If you have a pit that you've raised, and it hasn't attacked someone or came awfully close, then sad to say I believe you have the exception to the rule.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: They're raised correctly all the time, just go read the news
Mar 11, 2015, 12:45 PM
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Roommate's girlfriend has one that she babies and coddles and it's still unpredictable. Such a dominant breed.
You can probably make it a whole stretch without the dog going for an actual person's throat, but good luck protecting all your neighbors dogs and cats in the process. I've been in several situations since he started dating her where I've had to help him pull the dog off someone else's dog after he latched on. At that point, you basically have to choke the dog out unless you're trying to rip the skin he's holding onto.
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Oculus Spirit [96873]
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^^^tigerdrummer ain't gonna like this***
Mar 11, 2015, 12:32 PM
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CU Medallion [51550]
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My meter works.
Mar 11, 2015, 12:44 PM
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Got it half off at Radio Shack's going out of business sale.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Good because your stance on dogs don't...
Mar 11, 2015, 12:45 PM
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I keed, I keed...
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Legend [16507]
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Is this the final semi-annual going out of business sale?***
Mar 11, 2015, 3:34 PM
[ in reply to My meter works. ] |
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Team Captain [484]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 12:33 PM
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Typically it's the owners of these dogs that need to be "outlawed"
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Legend [16158]
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Agreed***
Mar 11, 2015, 12:35 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 12:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls ] |
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It's so weird to me how the demographic you're talking about is every bit as likely to own a golden retriever yet their negligence doesn't lead to a widespread golden retriever aggression problem.
My OP was tongue in cheek, but I can't take anyone seriously who honestly believes that an American Pit Bull Terrier, Stafffordshire, etc. is the same as any other dog if you "just raise it right."
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CU Guru [1116]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 12:56 PM
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You can't blame the whole breed for what one dog might do just like humans,same analogy.
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CU Medallion [60234]
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true, but when you see news reports of a dog attack
Mar 11, 2015, 12:59 PM
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do you really even have to wait for them to tell you what breed it was?
No, "pit bull" automatically pops in your mind, and 95% of the time it is correct.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: true, but when you see news reports of a dog attack
Mar 11, 2015, 1:06 PM
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Link supporting this?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: true, but when you see news reports of a dog attack
Mar 11, 2015, 1:12 PM
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95% is of course an exaggeration, but look at the trend here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
It's hard to glean a lot from this. But it would seem that Pit Bulls stole the top spot from Rottweilers at about the time Michael Vick made the breed even more notorious.
I can only guess the spike coincides with the increase in Pit breeding and ownership...cannot find data on that.
I know --- lies, ### lies & stats.
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Important to keep in mind that
Mar 11, 2015, 1:16 PM
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some of these attacks being labeled under Pit Bull weren't done by Pit Bulls. There exist all kinds of mixes out there, and sometimes people just default to a certain breed when they're guessing, because stigma.
There were still plenty of attacks, but I'd be curious to see how many were actually Pit Bulls. Even Dobermans have some lookalike breeds.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Important to keep in mind that
Mar 11, 2015, 1:21 PM
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Yeah, the breed standards make it convoluted. Instead of Pit Bulls we should be saying medium-sized bull terriers, which you can include the American/Staffordshire, Bull Terrier & others.
FWIW, I don't hate pits...just been around them long enough to know that it's still a dangerous animal all other things being equal.
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Have to be cautious around any big dog
Mar 11, 2015, 1:29 PM
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They are all animals, and even the sweetest most docile dog can end up irate or defensive.
There are only a few breeds that I am more cautious around, but that's not really so much for their stigma. Some dogs are simply not appropriate for beginners (Cane Corsos, Ridgebacks), yet first time owners end up with them.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Have to be cautious around any big dog
Mar 11, 2015, 1:48 PM
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True. A Chesapeake was enough for me. I had this impression that it was going to be like owning a lab but they are nowhere near as eager to please.
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: true, but when you see news reports of a dog attack
Mar 11, 2015, 3:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: true, but when you see news reports of a dog attack ] |
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There are no accurate starts regarding attacks, a good many of the dog bites reported as pit bulls are other breeds. If I claimed African Americans are more violent people I could produce stats to back it up, it doesn't make it true.
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Many attacks by small breeds aren't reported
Mar 11, 2015, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to true, but when you see news reports of a dog attack ] |
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Some of the smaller breeds attack and bite frequently, but aren't reported. Dog bites of any kind (even small ones) are dangerous because of the bite force and the risk of infection.
Additionally, some people don't actually know what kind of dog they were bitten by, so they just report "Pit bull".
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Its been my experience that smaller dogs are far more
Mar 11, 2015, 1:17 PM
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prone to bite than any size dog....and I was fairly shocked to learn that golden retrievers are #3 on on the "bite parade" since they're the gentlest, most people oriented dogs on the face of the earth....this leads me to believe that most bites by smaller breeds---chihuahuas, poodles, assorted terriers, etc, aren't reported because they don't do as much damage
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Legend [16158]
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Yep, its the little ones you gotta watch out for***
Mar 11, 2015, 1:20 PM
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Small breeds get a lot of unfair leeway
Mar 11, 2015, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to Its been my experience that smaller dogs are far more ] |
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You only need walk your dog through an area with lots of other smaller dogs to see this on display. A small dog that charges you out on the street and nips at you is "just a silly little dog", rather than a poorly behaving/trained/socialized creature that can cause very real harm.
I've seen way too many people get bitten by small dogs only for people to laugh it off, even when infection or crushing damage does cause issues later for the victim. Sure, they aren't getting maimed, but a solidly placed dog bite (not just a scratch) needs medical attention. If the infection risk isn't enough, there is often more damage beneath the surface than is visible to the eye.
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Legend [16158]
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Are you afraid of dogs in general or just pitbulls?***
Mar 11, 2015, 1:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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Not afraid of dogs at all, I've been a dog owner my whole
Mar 11, 2015, 1:21 PM
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life. I'm just calling a spade a spade.
On dogsbite.org if there's a whole section that says State pit bull fatality maps, that should tell you everything you need to know.
But don't let facts get in the way of what you're trying to get across.
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Legend [16158]
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and what exactly AM I trying to get across?***
Mar 11, 2015, 1:25 PM
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls ] |
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I'm not blaming the whole breed for the improprieties of one dog.
I'm just saying that if I see a Pit Bull and think "There's not a chance that this dog is innately more aggressive or more dominant than other similarly-conditioned dogs"...I'm lying to myself.
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Rookie [16]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 2:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls ] |
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You mean like you can't blame one ISIS fighter for the be-headings carried out by others? I agree with all dogs and all humans, but I think that argument loses water when you get into specific breeds of all animals, us included.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Head Coach [781]
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The fact is that most Pit Bull owners are seedy individuals
Mar 11, 2015, 3:10 PM
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Gangbangers, meth lab chemist, Napoleon complex type, etc. You can judge a neighborhood by the number of pit bulls chained in the yard. Go in one of these homes and changes are youre going to find a bunch of unregistered firearms and narcotics. I like to see the percentage of pit bull owners that are high school drop outs and/or felons.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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That simply isn't true
Mar 11, 2015, 3:26 PM
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That would be like saying, "most handgun owners are seedy individuals, so we should ban handguns."
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: German Shepherds, Doberman's, Rots
Mar 11, 2015, 4:08 PM
[ in reply to German Shepherds, Doberman's, Rots ] |
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I'm also willing to say that German Shepherds, Rotts, Doberman and the like are more predispositioned towards aggression and attacks. Yes, pits are a hot topic with media and they get the majority of the blame for dog attacks even when it's undeserved sometimes. But there's no need for pit owners/lovers and/or dog fans to obscure that reality by going too far the other way.
It's not the thugs and trailer park people I worry about. But the otherwise "good" (trains, loves, cuddles with the pet) pitbull owners who have this idea that their dog's are just precious and are willing to leave it around strangers, other dogs, kids unattended. The story doesn't end the same way every time, but we've seen a similar ending many times.
I've been around both types of pit owners. The yuppie who thinks they're doing the right thing via rescue and the redneck who only likes the dog because the dog likes to fight and he and the dog have that in common. Neither are usually any more fit for it.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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You should never leave any dog unattended with a kid
Mar 11, 2015, 5:16 PM
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I have a 14 year old small corgi/shepherd mix. She is a great dog, but she will bite you (or at least threaten to bite you) if you cause her physical pain or if strangers get in her face. I can't even count the number of times she has nipped the neighbor's 8 year old for being obnoxious (she doesn't actually bite him, but will snap close to him). We keep trying to tell him to stop grabbing her, and that she is not like his 3 year old golden, but he still doesn't listen. If we left those two alone together something bad would probably happen.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: German Shepherds, Doberman's, Rots
Mar 11, 2015, 6:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: German Shepherds, Doberman's, Rots ] |
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> I'm also willing to say that German Shepherds, Rotts, > Doberman and the like are more predispositioned > towards aggression and attacks. Yes, pits are a hot > topic with media and they get the majority of the > blame for dog attacks even when it's undeserved > sometimes. But there's no need for pit owners/lovers > and/or dog fans to obscure that reality by going too > far the other way. > > It's not the thugs and trailer park people I worry > about. But the otherwise "good" (trains, loves, > cuddles with the pet) pitbull owners who have this > idea that their dog's are just precious and are > willing to leave it around strangers, other dogs, > kids unattended. The story doesn't end the same way > every time, but we've seen a similar ending many > times. > > I've been around both types of pit owners. The yuppie > who thinks they're doing the right thing via rescue > and the redneck who only likes the dog because the > dog likes to fight and he and the dog have that in > common. Neither are usually any more fit for it.
This^^^ I'd be willing to bet the house that an overwhelming majority of dog bites were from dogs of owners that claimed "my dog would never do that. He is sooo sweet," or something similar.
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Zealot [868]
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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It's really not
Mar 11, 2015, 5:09 PM
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but thumbs up on knowing what an analogy is, honestly, I'm impressed.
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Zealot [868]
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Man you're so smart...
Mar 11, 2015, 5:17 PM
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remember when you used to ##### about Dabo all the time? How'd that work out for you?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Please to be finding me ######## about Dabo
Mar 11, 2015, 5:20 PM
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Other than the one thread where I stated that I wish we could win more "big" regular season games. I have a very high opinion of Dabo and his coaching now that he has figured out how to delegate. You should have just stuck with your original title and left it at that because I am so smart.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Please to be finding me ######## about Dabo
Mar 11, 2015, 5:31 PM
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Lol. Yea you're a genius.
I might be mistaken but I seem to remember you being one of the ring leaders of the fire Dabo camp back in 2010.
But it's ok, don't get your panties in a wad. We all make mistakes.
Your analogy was terrible though considering a dog has emotions and a mind of it's own.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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2010, yes, I believe I didn't like Dabo in 2010
Mar 11, 2015, 5:35 PM
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But to be fair, we were 6-7, and our head coach and OC were fighting over who was calling the plays while our DC was still trying to figure out how to stop the option. At that point we had a WR coach trying to be a head coach and an offensive coordinator and it just wasn't working. Dabo figured it out when he started delegating and focussed his efforts on recruiting. I think you can actually find some of my 2011 and 2012 posts that state as much.
Also, you're correct, I am a genius. Thanks for noticing.
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CU Medallion [58427]
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I'm not for outlawing them, but I don't understand why
Mar 11, 2015, 12:53 PM
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people get them, given all of the other fantastic breeds to choose from that are much less likely to maim or kill somebody. Well, I take that back - I do understand that a lot of people get them because they think it's "badass" or projects a tough image. Other than that, I don't understand it.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I'm not for outlawing them, but I don't understand why
Mar 11, 2015, 1:05 PM
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That's what's really frustrating.
I'm not an expert on dog genetics, but is all the work we're doing to socialize pitbulls not being offset by the owners who continue to ACTIVELY select for aggressive and lethal traits?
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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They aren't smart enough to select for traits
Mar 11, 2015, 1:11 PM
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I can take almost any dog and make it aggressive, not just Pit Bulls. I can neglect it, scare it frequently, beat it, starve it, and make it untrustworthy of other humans and dogs easily. It's not that they'd be bad dogs, they'd just be permanently stuck in Fight-or-Flight mode when interacting with other dogs/humans.
There's no selection involved there. Just idiotic owners doing awful things to their dogs.
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All-In [25008]
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Pit Bull isn't an actual breed
Mar 11, 2015, 1:21 PM
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It's an umbrella teen for a style of dog under several breeds like the Staffordshire Terrier
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CU Guru [1606]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 1:26 PM
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There were over 16,000 homicides in America last year alone. Maybe we should exterminate humanity as well. Obviously just killers posing as citizens.
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110%er [9032]
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great chain yanker for the football board. I can certainly
Mar 11, 2015, 1:51 PM
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see how pit bulls and Clemson FB are related......
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110%er [5809]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 3:30 PM
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Best dog I ever owned was a pink nose pit. That dog looked like it would tear you apart but was the biggest sissy I ever had. Sweetest dog ever. Caesar Milan swears that is the best breed of dog. I know it has a lot to do with how they are raised. You keep any dog on a chain or in a small fence and don't spend any time with it it'll be mean.
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1st Rounder [630]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 3:35 PM
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It's not the dog it's the stupid owners
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Legend [16158]
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In most cases. it's the owner....They might need to be
Mar 11, 2015, 3:38 PM
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regulated, but I'd say the same thing about children
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110%er [8866]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 3:39 PM
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I know several people that have these dogs and they are extremely sweet and well behaved around other dogs and children. I believe it is, like any other breed, how they are raised and trained
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All-In [40936]
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When collies attack! Wicked mean collies...beagles too***
Mar 11, 2015, 6:24 PM
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Heisman Winner [140588]
TigerPulse: 100%
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How could anyone outlaw something with a face like this?***
Mar 11, 2015, 3:51 PM
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In all honesty, they do make me feel uneasy.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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MVP [508]
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 5:31 PM
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I'm a 43 yo white male bank VP that's owned a 6 yo pit mix that I reluctantly adopted as a rescue when it was a 6 week old puppy. I've previously owned labs, golden retrievers, beagles, jack russels and numerous other "muts" and can 100% honestly say that my pit is BY FAR the least aggressive of all of them. Not once has it ever growled, snapped or even barked aggressively at a child. In fact, it rarely even barks aggresively at strangers and at first sign that that they are not a threat he instantly goes into play mode.
Is my dog the exception? Perhaps...But to say an entire breed of dog needs to be outlawed or exterminated is just stupid. Fact is, all dogs have some level of natural aggression. The difference is that larger, more powerful breeds can do more damage should they choose to use that aggression in a negative way. It's up to the owners to know their dogs and use common sense.
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All-In [40936]
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Joined: 11/30/98
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why do you have so many dogs?
Mar 11, 2015, 6:23 PM
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I've had dogs my whole life. I'm on dog 5. Most live to about 10-15 years.
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MVP [508]
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Joined: 4/5/13
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Re: why do you have so many dogs?
Mar 11, 2015, 7:16 PM
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I lived on a farm growing up and it wasn't uncommon to own several dogs at a time.
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Legend [16158]
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How many of those farm dogs make it 15 years?***
Mar 11, 2015, 7:20 PM
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CU Guru [1482]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 2011
Joined: 3/4/11
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Re: Is there any legitimate reason why we don't outlaw Pit Bulls
Mar 11, 2015, 6:49 PM
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If you want honest, well-researched data, go to the Canine Research Council.
http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/
The facts are dogs are dogs, and owners are owners.
As far as bites, male dogs that aren't neutered are a HUGE problem, not any specific breed. Second to that, little kids unsupervised with large dogs are a problem, not any specific breed. Tertiary to that, dogs that are constantly tethered and not exercised/played with are a problem, not any specific breed.
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