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Replies: 49
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All-In [40100]
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I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 11, 2022, 2:01 PM
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But the timing may be debatable. Should we have done it 2-3 years ago or now?
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All-TigerNet [11472]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 11, 2022, 2:08 PM
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They actually probably should have done it after the NIT 1st round loss to Oakland at home. Now, they made the sweet sixteen the next season, so that put it off for the next time they don't go to the NCAAT for two years straight. That probably will be after this season...
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 11, 2022, 3:16 PM
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Totally agree. If not then, the home loss to BC and the entire 2021-22 season should have been enough t get him fired.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Legend [19686]
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We have 4 seniors starting
Dec 11, 2022, 2:11 PM
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2 of them 5th year guys. Yes, a couple can take a Covid year. If we can somehow make the tourney, unless he leaves of his own accord, we won't move on.
If not, we likely lose 4 starters, and PJ could move on as well. After 13 years, there would be no better time
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CU Medallion [57090]
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As if he would ever move on of his own accord.
Dec 11, 2022, 2:17 PM
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And do what? He can’t coach at the P5 level, so what’s he going to do? Knit?
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Legend [19686]
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Agreed, but we don't move on if the team does
Dec 12, 2022, 8:19 AM
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make the tournament either. If they don't, we lose a ton. New coach can start from scratch, especially with the portal
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All-In [40100]
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Legend [16058]
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Legend [19686]
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5 years ago we made the Sweet 16
Dec 12, 2022, 8:20 AM
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it wasn't happening then
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Legend [16134]
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Do you have a source on PJ transferring out? You keep
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Dec 12, 2022, 1:57 AM
[ in reply to We have 4 seniors starting ] |
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bringing it up, went as far as to say it was more likely than not...But you wouldn't put a subscription on it...oddly enough
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Do you have a source on PJ transferring out? You keep
Dec 12, 2022, 2:01 AM
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Maybe just go Pro even if its International?
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Legend [16134]
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No, he has specifically mentioned PJ transferring out in
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Dec 12, 2022, 2:02 AM
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previous posts
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Legend [19686]
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Nope, just speculation. Logical speculation
Dec 12, 2022, 8:26 AM
[ in reply to Do you have a source on PJ transferring out? You keep ] |
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That's why I say could. PJ has pro aspirations. Next year he'd be surrounded likely by 4 new starters. In preparation for the next level, is he better off here fighting through that adjustment, and the inconsistencies that surely come with it, or basically having his pick of where he would play his final year? I personally don't think he's pro ready yet, but he has pro ability. Where could that best be developed? Here, or surrounded by established talent at a name program?
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All-In [44044]
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PJ needs to get healthy.
Dec 12, 2022, 10:04 AM
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That's his problem. He needs to be able to practice regularly while continuing to increase his game minutes.
He's not nearly back to 100%. He's still tentative sometimes. His touch around the basket isn't back. And his defense leaves a lot to be desired overall.
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Legend [19686]
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Agree
Dec 12, 2022, 12:17 PM
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I'm not sure if he does get fully 100% this year though. Brad pointed out where it really hurt his development over the summer, rebounding and defense. Both are tied to health even now to a certain extent. Not physically able to do things as well as he could have without the knee injury. His athleticism is not where it would have been, natural with a serious knee injury
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Legend [16134]
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He hasn't regained lateral movement yet so he has a wider
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Dec 12, 2022, 10:42 PM
[ in reply to PJ needs to get healthy. ] |
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stance now and has to gather himself to go vertical
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: We have 4 seniors starting
Dec 12, 2022, 2:27 AM
[ in reply to We have 4 seniors starting ] |
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So what at this point?? Seriously! We can sing the definition of insanity every year. Who knows, players may love the new coach. We are a turnover team basically every year now anyway.
Do you realize that fans can't fall in love with this team because they don't always know who the starters are. I have heard this many times. This year we do have Hall, Tyson, Hunter which have been around for 3yrs, this is a little unusual. But you would expect our team to be even better with older players playing as a team. But yet we still choke to a 4-5team Loyola.
Seriously, we could get exactly the same quality coach for the money but at least it would show the fans that Clemson cares.
But what if we hired a coach that was better? We would have more fans and we would win more games. But this routine of wash and repeat is idiotic!!! Clemson deserves better than a team ranked about 100.
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110%er [7831]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 11, 2022, 2:36 PM
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Past time
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Heisman Winner [111575]
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I'd be fine with him staying
Dec 11, 2022, 2:40 PM
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if Neff worked a clause into his contract requiring that he give some of his own money to the football program for every loss. I think this could be a win-win for both Brownell and Football.
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All-In [44044]
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I think it depends on how serious Clemson is about basketball.
Dec 11, 2022, 2:50 PM
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If it’s going to continue to be an afterthought and we keep supporting it like a mid-bottom level ACC program, then I’d rather keep Brad since he outperforms that level of support.
If we are suddenly “all in” on basketball, and willing to step up our support to that of the upper third of the ACC (which would mean a substantial increase in funding for the program) then I’d still like to see how Brad does with a more level playing field.
But if we are moving on from Brad, it must be with a better commitment to basketball by the administration and fans. Otherwise, we are unlikely to see the kind of success some of you seem to (unrealistically) expect.
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All-In [40100]
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Unrealistic. That’s exactly your problem. It’s unrealistic to
Dec 11, 2022, 3:12 PM
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Think we could be more successful at basketball? There has been no growth. You show me a little of passion, a touch of success and he’d get more support then more support begets more success which begets more support. You don’t dump an investment in someone who has shown no growth. He has a boring tired product and in fact underachieves. You have yourself hitched to a sinking ship.
Message was edited by: lovingit®
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110%er [5496]
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Re: Unrealistic. That’s exactly your problem. It’s unrealistic we to
Dec 11, 2022, 3:21 PM
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WAY OVERDUE. Don’t let him coach another game.
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All-In [44044]
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Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations
Dec 11, 2022, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to Unrealistic. That’s exactly your problem. It’s unrealistic to ] |
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when it comes to Clemson basketball.
We are arguably the worst basketball program in ACC history. Zero ACC Tournament championships. Zero Final Four appearances. We are a football school that historically finds basketball to be silly and a waste of athletic department resources. That attitude goes back generations.
We finish middle of the pack with Brad, in a conference filled with basketball powers who care about basketball success way more than we do, and our fans act like he’s the worst coach ever. We set the record a couple of years ago for most wins over NCAA Tournament teams, and none of you seemed to care. We had a Sweet 16 team a few years ago, one of our best teams ever, and we did it without arguably our best player, and it was crickets.
It seems that some of you are unable to view things in context. Brad is our winningest basketball coach in program history. He has the best winning percentage against the ACC. He’s taken us to a third of our NCAA Tournament appearances. On top of that, he runs a clean program and graduates his players.
He has done this with one of the lowest basketball budgets in the conference, playing in front of one of the worst home court advantages in the ACC.
He isn’t perfect, but man, we could do a LOT worse. Plus, he loves Clemson and doesn’t view it as the stepping stone job many others do.
If Brad is ever let go, I hope he goes out like Tommy West did at Memphis.
https://youtu.be/eLk06dQlyAE
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Freshman [-97]
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Re: Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations
Dec 11, 2022, 5:00 PM
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when it comes to Clemson basketball. We are arguably the worst basketball program in ACC history. Zero ACC Tournament championships. Zero Final Four appearances. We are a football school that historically finds basketball to be silly and a waste of athletic department resources. That attitude goes back generations. We finish middle of the pack with Brad, in a conference filled with basketball powers who care about basketball success way more than we do, and our fans act like he’s the worst coach ever. We set the record a couple of years ago for most wins over NCAA Tournament teams, and none of you seemed to care. We had a Sweet 16 team a few years ago, one of our best teams ever, and we did it without arguably our best player, and it was crickets. It seems that some of you are unable to view things in context. Brad is our winningest basketball coach in program history. He has the best winning percentage against the ACC. He’s taken us to a third of our NCAA Tournament appearances. On top of that, he runs a clean program and graduates his players. He has done this with one of the lowest basketball budgets in the conference, playing in front of one of the worst home court advantages in the ACC. He isn’t perfect, but man, we could do a LOT worse. Plus, he loves Clemson and doesn’t view it as the stepping stone job many others do. If Brad is ever let go, I hope he goes out like Tommy West did at Memphis. https://youtu.be/eLk06dQlyAE
I have to disagree with Clemson being the worst in ACC: Boston College, Virginia Tech or Pitt
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All-TigerNet [11472]
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Re: Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations
Dec 11, 2022, 6:11 PM
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Uh, Virginia Tech is 10-1 and has a net ranking about 32. Probably going to be ranked next week. Dont think that is worse. Pitt has actually started playing a lot better since their PF came back from injury.
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All-TigerNet [13481]
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Re: Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations
Dec 11, 2022, 5:13 PM
[ in reply to Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations ] |
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Help me understand what investments we need to make that will actually make a difference. We've upgraded our facilities and we've funded the coaches BB wanted as far as I know. I genuinely don't know what else we can do that will make a tangible difference. Maybe some additional marketing and something to attract recruits?
Personally, if we are serious about the future I would invest heavily in buying a name coach who has a successful record of turning around programs and recruiting top talent. Get a coach kids want to come play for. Get a coach with good NBA connections since these kids mainly want an opportunity to get to the next level. Go find your Deion Sanders of basketball coaches to breathe some life into the program and someone who wants to take on that challenge like he is doing at Colorado.
If you get that kind of coach, people will be more interested to invest their hard-earned money in a program they can believe in.
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MVP [519]
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Re: Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations
Dec 11, 2022, 5:31 PM
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VaTech is 10-1 and won the ACC last year. Something we have only finished 2nd in all-time twice I believe. If VaTech can do it with no money and no base how come Clemson cant? Not looking for every year just maybe once.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations
Dec 11, 2022, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, many of our fans here have very unrealistic expectations ] |
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Perhaps Brad should give his Tommy West speech now. Lay out to us-IPTAY supporters exactly what he needs to produce a better product.
The program has not been on a steady upward trajectory. Recruiting doesn’t appear to have improved despite renovating Littlejohn and having great academic support for the players.
I don’t think throwing more money for more bells and whistles is going to improve Brad’s recruiting prowess or coaching ability.
Jimmys and Joes make coaches much better. Brad does not have the personality to compete in recruiting and that isn’t going to change.
I like the man as a person, but I’ve been ready for at least 2 years to hire a young dynamic coach that I believe could recruit and bring excitement back to what is a very stale product.
Regardless, I’ll be back in Littlejohn on the 30th pulling very hard for the team and Brad to be successful against NCSU.
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CU Medallion [65422]
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Lovingit, You had to know when you posted, that what you
Dec 12, 2022, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to Unrealistic. That’s exactly your problem. It’s unrealistic to ] |
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really meant was that "All Clemson fans except Judge Keller" are ready to move on from Brad Brownell.
(And, whatever Bailiff and Clerk of Court Scoks the Judge may have hanging around the court-room, of course.)
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Lovingit, You had to know when you posted, that what you
Dec 12, 2022, 1:02 PM
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Judge Keller is not a Clemson fan. He's a Brownell fan, apologist, and friend.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Unrealistic. That’s exactly your problem. It’s unrealistic to
Dec 12, 2022, 8:50 AM
[ in reply to Unrealistic. That’s exactly your problem. It’s unrealistic to ] |
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1. Brad brownell is very passionate about this team and coaching position.
2. We have had more than "a touch of success" over the last 6 years.
What would you consider a "touch of success"
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All-In [44044]
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No.
Dec 12, 2022, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to Unrealistic. That’s exactly your problem. It’s unrealistic to ] |
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It's unrealistic to expect more success in basketball while continuing to support basketball poorly at Clemson.
I'd love to see us have big goals for basketball, but just wishing and hoping and dreaming for it without taking appropriate action isn't going to get it done. Simply hiring a new coach isn't going to get it done without better investment in the program.
I don't understand why you have concluded that Brownell is the problem when he's overachieved here given the circumstances. Talk about misplaced blame!
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Legend [16252]
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It's tough, but Brad simply isn't the person you can count
Dec 12, 2022, 11:22 AM
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on to parlay additional investment into success here, if that's the only solution out there to compete for championships. The $65 Million Littlejohn and program facilities upgrades that Brad helped orchestrate apparently were a bust, a waste of resources that even his fiercest supporters on here lambaste as inadequate and a joke. Why would we feel that doubling down even further with that same leadership would prompt some kind of miraculous turnaround in our fortunes? It doesn't add up.
Brad is as disconnected with the students and fans as ever, attendance continues on a downward trajectory, and program enthusiasm and our prospects are as weak as they've been since the Shyatt years. I wish it were different, but the current regime just doesn't inspire confidence for additional outlays, at least none of any significance, not at this stage of the game.
Brad has been granted ample chances to deliver on the promises he offered when he signed on in 2010. He has as good an opportunity as ever this year to prove his value, with veteran leadership and a few solid recruiting classes under his belt to back that up. No excuses on the talent, no excuses on his hand picked assistant staff, no excuses on the facilities as they don't negatively factor on his ability to gameplan, lead practices, or coach for two hours in the box.
It would be great to see this roster have a solid season. They're quality kids and have put in the work and effort to succeed. I hope Brad can deliver for them and lead them to post-season success. That's been rare over his years here, though, but hey - that's why they play the games. We have 21 games ahead still to show out, so we still firmly control our own destiny from here.
Go Tigers.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: I think it depends on how serious Clemson is about basketball.
Dec 12, 2022, 2:05 AM
[ in reply to I think it depends on how serious Clemson is about basketball. ] |
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JK, this is likely the best post you have made in regards to CBB.
We have spent millions on upgrades to facilities in the last 3yrs. We haven't invested in our staff, it's time to show the recruits ans fans we want to be a player!
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CU Guru [1998]
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Freshman [-97]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 11, 2022, 4:37 PM
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I know you want him gone it's obvious but what's stupid is all the craze after this loss. Like this loss made you go batshit crazy. I don't get it. So emotional.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 11, 2022, 6:14 PM
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8-10 years ago.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Neff told donors last week
Dec 11, 2022, 10:16 PM
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Brownell really needs to have a good year.
So ... there's that.
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All-In [44044]
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Good year doesn’t necessarily mean NCAA Tournament.
Dec 11, 2022, 10:42 PM
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HTH
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All-In [40100]
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Talk about reassessing our enthusiasm with why do you define
Dec 12, 2022, 1:12 AM
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As successful. If we haven’t made the NCAA 64, then imo we have failed.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [44044]
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I stand by what I said.***
Dec 12, 2022, 10:02 AM
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 11, 2022, 10:58 PM
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It is long past time.
Bill Foster got nine seasons.
Cliff Ellis got ten seasons.
Brad Brownell is in his thirteenth season of mediocrity. And he has not produced as much as either Foster or Ellis produced.
I don't think that "change for the sake of change" is necessarily good, but, like DJU, we know what the ceiling is with Brad Brownell.
I think what is most frustrating in this embrace of a culture of mediocrity is when you look at what other similar programs (lacking history) have done in recent years. I mean, Texas Tech has NO good basketball history. They hired Chris Beard, and made it to the NCAA finals in his THIRD season. We've given Brownell TEN MORE SEASONS than it took Beard to get to the finals.
I'm not sure what the solution is. I do know that I think (and I'm Class of '84) that Littlejohn is a garbage facility... though they have remade it twice since I graduated. It is too small to be a mighty home arena like the Dean Dome. But it is too large to be one of those small, intimidating places to play, like Cameron.
Beyond that... what the hell do you need to succeed in basketball? Recruit good players. Develop good players.
When I was a kid, we had Tree Rollins and Skip Wise. Bobby Conrad. Then we had Grayson Marshall. Horace Grant and Dale Davis. Elden Campbell. We can't seem to recruit ACC caliber players anymore. P.J. Hall has been the best in a while!
If Brad Brownell could get us to the level of his predecessors, we'd have seen it by now. It is long past time to move on. Don't keep him around because he'll get one or two surprise wins, because we know he'll get a half-dozen disappointing losses.
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All-In [44044]
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Brad hasn’t produced as much as Foster or Ellis?
Dec 12, 2022, 12:37 PM
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What is that based upon?
If your standard is Foster’s Elite Eight appearance, no argument there since that team went farther than any other Clemson team. However, Brad made a Sweet 16 and was close.
That Elite Eight team was Foster’s only NCAA appearance at Clemson.
In terms of NCAAs, Ellis has a first round loss and a second round loss on his Clemson resume. Brad has him here.
Brad has done better than both Foster and Ellis against ACC competition.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Brad hasn’t produced as much as Foster or Ellis?
Dec 12, 2022, 1:23 PM
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Cliff Ellis won a regular season ACC title. The only one in the program's history.
It was a smaller tournament when Bill Foster coached - back in the days when it also meant something to go to the NIT. So I certainly rate his performance higher.
Brownell took Oliver Purnell's players to the NCAA tournament in his first year (the fourth straight tournament for the team). Seven years later he got back to the tournament and made the Sweet Sixteen. Three years later he made the tournament. Brownell has missed post-season altogether in five of his twelve completed seasons - not counting the COVID year.
They are obviously not the only better coaches we've had than Brownell. Rick Barnes was the best we ever had. Oliver Purnell was unquestionably better - and if he is a guy who punched above his weight as a coach, he still came in and improved the team's record the first four seasons before making the tournament his last three. Oliver Purnell rebuilt the program after the Larry Shyatt disaster. And what did Brownell do with the program he inherited?
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Legend [17599]
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Eight years ago
Dec 11, 2022, 11:07 PM
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 12, 2022, 2:15 AM
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I think they agreed 5yrs ago.
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110%er [7987]
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Re: I think as Clemson Fans we all agree it’s time to move on from Brad.
Dec 12, 2022, 8:28 AM
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Part of the answer lies in what type of coach would we hire as a replacement. If our plan is to ###### a coach from the colonial league or similar with no other investment in the program then no thanks. But if like baseball we find a way to attract a quality coach who has seen success in P5 level ball then go for it
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110%er [7159]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10136
Joined: 6/27/07
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Recruiting should be 75% of what the next coach is good at
Dec 12, 2022, 12:28 PM
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we need the deion sanders of the college basketball ranks.
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Replies: 49
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