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All-TigerNet [12245]
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I expected us to compete. This is just demoralizing as a
Mar 30, 2013, 8:36 PM
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program. Hate to see this program fall to this level. I understand UNC is very good this season. I just expect to send out a team who can at least have a chance to win against top level ACC teams. Before we even stepped on the field we were out of our league. We are no longer in that discussion as a top tier ACC team.
Rage.
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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Dude
Mar 30, 2013, 8:38 PM
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Shut up!
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: Dude
Mar 30, 2013, 8:42 PM
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Nah. Just don't read it. You'll be ok. Just sit back and enjoy the #### show
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110%er [7191]
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Re: Dude
Mar 30, 2013, 11:17 PM
[ in reply to Dude ] |
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Sorry,but I have to agree with palmettoson!
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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well of course you do leftie..coots stick together no matter
Mar 31, 2013, 10:35 PM
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how pathetic they are
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Bingo!!! Can't help themselves.***
Mar 31, 2013, 11:26 PM
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Legend [19352]
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110%er [6864]
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110%er [6697]
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At least there is one Leggett doing good at Clemson - Jordan***
Mar 30, 2013, 8:42 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Sucks getting pounded, but let's see how the series closes
Mar 30, 2013, 8:44 PM
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out before the b!tchin' and bellyaching gets too out of control. You can do it man.
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: I expected us to compete. This is just demoralizing as a
Mar 30, 2013, 8:51 PM
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Again, we're a middle-of-the-road ACC program. It really sucks to come to that realization but it's true.
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CU Guru [1400]
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That doesn't matter
Mar 30, 2013, 9:01 PM
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We have a Hall of Fame coach.
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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Why do you watch the games ?
Mar 30, 2013, 9:05 PM
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They obviously get your little panties in a knot
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Rock Defender [54]
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I think roberts covered that above.
Mar 30, 2013, 9:07 PM
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Apparently palmetto is in his zone when he's miserable.
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CU Guru [1400]
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If that's the case
Mar 30, 2013, 9:08 PM
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then shouldn't he be like y'all and fighting to keep Leggett?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Dang man that's too philosophical for a sports message board
Mar 30, 2013, 9:14 PM
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I'm sure there will be something else to take it's place in the event Jack is let go. Just in some guys' nature.
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CU Guru [1400]
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Nah
Mar 31, 2013, 10:51 PM
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I just see it as someone like me who is passionate about Clemson baseball who has a lot of legitimate concerns that seemingly go unanswered. Well, except for the fact we get told several times a week that Jack is a Hall of Fame coach.
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All-TigerNet [14511]
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: I think roberts covered that above.
Mar 30, 2013, 9:26 PM
[ in reply to I think roberts covered that above. ] |
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Your honestly ok with all of this Cogan? What the #### of all ##### does my attitude have to do with any ####### thing about this program. Maybe my attitude toward this baseball program has a little to do with the #### poor product we have been putting on the diamond.
Just makes too much sense.
Odd you never see this post when I am posting about the football program. Maybe because the football program is actually doing what they are supposed to be doing. Working hard and getting better every day.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I'm not sure why you're so confused?
Mar 31, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Where in tarnation did I say I was happy with anything? Please find the quotes that would lead you to believe that.
I'm not sure exactly what else you said because there are so many ###'s, but your attitude is pathetic. You come on here after every loss whining and complaining like a spoiled baby. I completely understand why anyone would be unhappy, in fact, I've said so myself in so many words. But your attitude and actions (a grown man, I assume?) are like that of a child's. It's one thing to vent a little after a loss, but it's a completely different thing to make post after post after post, cussing and spitting and endlessly arguing the same thing you said the last 500 times you posted on it.
THE bottom line is, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING.
If we don't do any better, then we will need to address it at the end of the season. At least I think so. But taking to the internet in mid-season and acting like a fool is an absurd waste of hot air. Only at season's end will an in-depth analysis be completed.
And here you are, back at it again today. God help us if we lose again today. You're gonna pop an artery.You really should try to get a grip on yourself.
I thought this is what I've said all along? Where are you getting that I'm "ok with all of this"
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Die-Hard [8977]
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You did not expect Clemson to compete...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:14 PM
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you expect Clemson to fail because you've given up. You see nothing but negatives with the program. I believe they mentioned on the broadcast that Collin Moran came down to Clemson and UNC when he was picking a school. I'd venture to guess that UNC's superior facilities had something to do with his decision. Of course, he's from New York, so I guess some Clemson fans are glad he's not here.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I was waiting on the facility excuse.***
Mar 30, 2013, 9:17 PM
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Die-Hard [8977]
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It's not an excuse...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:18 PM
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ask Dabo Swinney.
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CU Guru [1400]
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So what you are saying is...
Mar 30, 2013, 11:13 PM
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....we pump a bunch of new money into the baseball program.
If the facilities are the sole problem then where were the championships when we had at minimum Top 10 facilities in the 1990's?
But keep throwing it out there. It makes a great red herring to keep the people who don't know any better satisfied.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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CU Guru [1400]
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Never said we didn't need to invest in facilities.....
Mar 31, 2013, 8:21 PM
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but unlike you I refuse to use facilities as a crutch. I refuse to talk in circles like you do.
In one post you claim he can't recruit top talent because of facilities, then you will turn right around and talk about how great recruiting was in the last class and the upcoming one. Pick a story and stick with it.
And I noticed you conveniently ignored the question about what kind of proof can you have that we need to pour a bunch of money into facilities when Jack couldn't win championships when he had at minimum Top 10 facilities in the country, and probably closer to Top 5 in the 1990's. What was the problem then, and what reason does one have to expect it will not be the exact same story this time around when we give him the same advantage.
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All-TigerNet [14511]
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Re: I was waiting on the facility excuse.***
Mar 30, 2013, 9:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: I was waiting on the facility excuse.*** ] |
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facilities mean nothing. the west zone was absolutely no help in our recent recruiting success. the kids should just come because it is clemson and coach leggett.
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CU Guru [1400]
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Might be a valid comparison
Mar 30, 2013, 10:21 PM
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if our baseball facilities were as bad as our football facilities were. They are, so it isn't.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: You did not expect Clemson to compete...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to You did not expect Clemson to compete... ] |
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I see what is shown out on the field of play
I see a once proud program getting their teeth kicked in
I see losses to terrible teams
I see a coaching staff getting out worked and out recruited
I see a program slowly becoming irrelevant
I used to see an elite program that nobody wanted to play
I used to see a team that put fear into the ACC and nation
I used to see a roster full of talent year in and year out
I used to see coaches who worked 24/7
I used to see a full Doug Kingsmore
The day I give up is the day you never hear me talk about it again. If it reaches that point.....you won't be worrying about what I am saying. Nobody will care. Don't think you want to reach that point.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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You see what you want to see...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:25 PM
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you have some kind of vendetta against Jack Leggett and it influences everything you say. You are completetly incapable of being objective. Teams lose to "inferior" teams every day. It's called baseball. Clemson lost to "terrible teams" when Bill Wilhelm was the coach.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: You see what you want to see...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:28 PM
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Your correct. Teams lose to inferior teams everyday. Those teams are usually destroyed when that happens. Us on the other hand. We have reached that point where it is ok and actually expected.
I can still remember leaving Fluor Field one or two years ago after PC beat us. I remember the look on the fans faces. It wasn't disappointment. It was as if they expected it. Thats right.....the PC Blue Hose.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Only you expects to lose to inferior teams...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:32 PM
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no one on the team nor the coaching staff does. They do, however, understand that it isn't the end of the world. Do you want Jack Leggett to go before the media and talk about how horrible his players are and how they don't deserve to wear a Clemson uniform? Talk about making them play tight.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: Only you expects to lose to inferior teams...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:46 PM
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lmao baseball fan. Of course nobody on the team expects to lose. No coach or player is ever going to come out and say we are going to get our tails whipped. Doesn't change the outcomes of the games. Doesn't take away the growing number of ### losses. Jack can believe he is Joe Torre for all I care. It doesn't matter what they think. The only thing that matters is where your program is at. Right now we are not close to elite. We are middle tier and heading lower.
I don't want Jack Leggett to talk at all. I want him to do his freaking job and go out and get the players needed to win. Recruit to a traditional baseball power that shouldn't be that freaking hard to recruit to. And yes I know we have a craptastic players lounge. That players lounge is no excuse for the span of classes that were not very good. DK is a great stadium. Considered top 15 in the nation by many.
Jack used to have guys who recruited for him in Corbin and Sully. When he lost those guys he had to do the work. He didn't want to. That is where we are. Now Lecroy is trying his best to dig us out of this hole. I am sorry....if your a head coach at D1 baseball school and you suck that bad at recruiting you shouldn't be coaching at this level.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: Plus, he has a Ken Hatfield personality.***
Mar 30, 2013, 9:55 PM
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Die-Hard [8977]
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How do you KNOW all this...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Only you expects to lose to inferior teams... ] |
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or are you just making assumptions? Sully regularly lost 3 or 4 incoming freshmen to the draft every year and thought that was fine. Well, it happened to him last summer and look where he is now. I wonder if he thinks it's so great any more. You love Tim Corbin, but what has he done at Vanderbilt? Gone to Omaha once in a decade? With all the talent he's recruited, he certainly hasn't done much with it. Who considers Doug Kingsmore a "top 15" stadium? It had the number one playing surface a few years ago, but it is nowhere NEAR top 15 any more.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: You see what you want to see...
Mar 30, 2013, 9:30 PM
[ in reply to You see what you want to see... ] |
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and Bill built this program into a national title contender. He had every right to lose to one of those teams on his way to the top. Leggett took over this well oiled machine and now has turned it into a freaking clunker nobody can sell
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110%er [6697]
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Unfortunately I agree, hope we are wrong and Tigers win the
Mar 30, 2013, 9:50 PM
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next two and most of rest of games, but that was our best pitcher today!
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Die-Hard [8977]
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And UNC came into the game 23-1...
Mar 30, 2013, 10:07 PM
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and averaging 9 runs a game.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I guess the superior facilities for the Heels put them
Mar 30, 2013, 10:17 PM
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in that position. Give him another year, and everyone will have passed him.
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CU Guru [1400]
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Can't speak for PS
Mar 30, 2013, 10:12 PM
[ in reply to You see what you want to see... ] |
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but the only vendetta I have against Jack Leggett is the fact that he has presided over at worst a steady decline in our program where we allowed programs we compete with both within and outside out conference to surpass us, or at best he has failed to advance our program from where it was when he took over and allowed teams from within and outside our conference to surpass us. There is no way measurable you can say with an honest answer that this baseball program is better today than it was when he took over.
I readily admit it's high time that we spend some real money on facilities for baseball, but I also readily admit that the facilities are nowhere near the doom and gloom that you and others try to make them out to be. The list of programs out there that would kill to have the facilities that we have is 10 times larger than the one of the programs that wouldn't touch ours with a 10 foot pole.
Recruiting has been at the root of our steady decline/malaise and that falls right square in Jack's lap. For far too long he concentrated on getting commitments from the big names that were never going to see the practice field at Clemson because everybody and their brother knew that they wee going to sign a pro contract, and it put us in the hole we are in this year where we are so dependent on first year players. I find it hard to accept swallowing the excuse "We are young" when the big reason we are in the shape we are in is because of the recruiting approach of the man in charge. If you are going to use the "We are young" crutch, then at least be man enough to admit the reason we need the crutch is because Leggett and his staff are the ones who put a bullet in the foot that requires us to use the crutch.
Add into the fact that the way he over the years completely and totally disregarded recruiting SC players over pursuing out of state talent means he has an uphill climb in the majority of recruiting battles within our our own state because the majority of the high school coaches here simply do not like him or his attitude. News flash for you here as well...the few times he has interacted with youth coaches he's pissed them off as well, including ones like me who bleed orange.
The Clemson baseball program is broken, and it's nowhere near close to being fixed any time soon. We have sat back and allowed too many other programs around us who do get what it takes to win to not only pass us, but in most cases lap us. We are sitting here just before the midway point talking about how the easy part of the schedule is coming up just so we can get to a regional. We are seriously looking at out 3rd road regional in the past four years. We are .500 in conference play, and will have to pull a gigantic horseshoe out our #### cavity to avoid being two games under .500 in conference play come Monday.
But I guess in your eyes everything is OK because we have a Hall of Fame coach.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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He didn't allow other programs to pass Clemson...
Mar 30, 2013, 10:27 PM
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the responsibility for that lies in the lap of the administration. As for recruiting, the last few years have seem far fewer incoming freshmen sign pro contracts than the years that Kevin O'Sullivan was the recruiting coordinator. He was the one that thought it was so great to sign the big names that got away. It finally bit him in the you-know-what this year. Daniel Norris told everybody up until the last minute that he was so determined to go to Clemson and then took half of what he had said it would take for him to sign with the Blue Jays. That certainly isn't Jack Leggett's fault. Madison Younginer (a South Carolinina no less) did basically the same thing. Clate Schmidt was widely regarded as a first round draft pick last summer but was determined to go to Clemson. Fortunately he showed up.
Why are some of you so obsessed with in-state talent? I want him to sign the best talent he can find, regardless of where somebody goes to HS. Daniel Moskos and Herman Demmink are two "out-of-staters" whose parents (at least one) attended Clemson. Should he have ignored them because they didn't go to HS in South Carolina? It's past time to get over the state of legal residence crap.
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CU Guru [1400]
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When you have alienated
Mar 30, 2013, 10:35 PM
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yourself from a significant portion of your own backyard because of your antics and your attitude there is a problem.
If money is as big of a problem as you seem to harp on then it makes a whole lot more sense to recruit in your backyard where you can drive and see far more players than fly and see one. June Raines used to have a love affair with out of state talent too. One of the first things Ray Tanner did when he got to Columbia was to repair those fences. How did that work out for him?
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Die-Hard [8977]
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If he's alienated so many people in his "back yard"...
Mar 30, 2013, 10:42 PM
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then why are there more South Carolinians on the roster than any other state? Half of the roster is from SC and GA. Twenty eight of the 34 are from SC, GA, NC and FL. Things worked a lot better for Ray Tanner after the school spent 30 million on a new facility. And he brought in plenty of out-of-state players too. He especially liked Florida JUCO kids.
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CU Guru [1400]
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There is no "If" about it.
Mar 30, 2013, 10:47 PM
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It's pretty much common knowledge in the SC HS baseball world.
And if Jack's system is so much better than Tanner's explain why Jack's got just two ACC titles to compare to Tanner's two CWS titles.
You need to change you name from baseball fan to leggett fan, as it is beyond clear your dedication is more to the coach than the actual program.
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Die-Hard [8977]
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Show me how it's "common knowledge...
Mar 30, 2013, 10:52 PM
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in the SC HS baseball world". Because like I said, there are more kids from SC than from any other state on the roster. The facts don't back up your opinion. Ray Tanner's 2010 team had a large number of out-of-state players. He particularly likes Florida JUCOs. That's just a fact. Look at his roster if you don't believe me.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: Show me how it's "common knowledge...
Mar 30, 2013, 11:08 PM
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I have talked to high school coaches and showcase team coaches who don't care for Leggett. I know you won't believe me. I don't expect you too. I have seen his own people get pissed off at him for being a complete tool bag at practices. I have friends who have worked within the CUAD who have told me the same.
I don't expect you to believe me. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. What I post means nothing. What he does on the field means everything.
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CU Guru [1464]
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CU Guru [1203]
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Clemson's done more without winning the ACC in baseball***
Mar 30, 2013, 9:55 PM
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110%er [7913]
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what was the score of the game?***
Mar 30, 2013, 9:57 PM
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: what was the score of the game?***
Mar 30, 2013, 10:00 PM
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UNC 10
CU 3 (2 runs actually scored in top 9 was 10-1)
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110%er [7913]
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thank you sir***
Mar 30, 2013, 10:01 PM
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All-TigerNet [12552]
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Our baseball program has gone the way of our soccer program***
Mar 30, 2013, 10:08 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I expected us to compete. This is just demoralizing as a
Mar 30, 2013, 10:19 PM
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good lowered, where were you when dook beat us 13-1 a week ago???? Isn't losing less to a better team a MORAL VICTORY??? I keeeed. 
Yeah - you should have figured this one out when we lost to Winthrop. You're waaaaayyy behind the curve my man. This team is in the crapper, and has been since day one. I only gave them the benefit of the doubt until the Winthrop game before I wrote them off.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: I expected us to compete. This is just demoralizing as a
Mar 31, 2013, 12:25 AM
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Good lord at the excuses in this thread.
Its a shame some of you pull for a coach over Clemson.
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Legend [16959]
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Re: I expected us to compete. This is just demoralizing as a
Mar 31, 2013, 1:20 AM
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Did Leggett give up 8 runs in 3 innings to effectively knock us out of the game? Or do you think Gossett, a pitcher who would be a weekend starter for any program in college baseball, isn't good enough and is indicative of Leggett's lack of interest in recruiting? Or do you think Leggett made Gossett too "tight" even though he successfully got him to the point in the season with a sub-2 era against one of the 10 hardest schedules in college baseball (at least according to RPI as of last week).
Please explain it to me. I'm well aware you've been against Leggett for years. But tell me what that actually has to do with what happened today. Gossett gave up 8 runs in 3 innings. Explain how that indicates anything about the overall state of the program. If you can't - without trying to tie it into some bigger picture/past history - then you are simply reveling in a Clemson loss to fuel your agenda. You say "fall to this level." Clemson didn't fall to any level. They lost a baseball game. If you think having a kid like Gossett on the mound says bad things about this program then you should find something else to do with your time. Gossett, and the rest of the team, need a fan base that rallies behind them. The only thing demoralizing is fans that would rather use it as an opportunity to pounce on the team.
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Orange Blooded [3292]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6515
Joined: 1/13/04
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Re: I expected us to compete. This is just demoralizing as a
Apr 1, 2013, 11:06 AM
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I think what it says about our program is our #1 starter wasn't good enough Saturday night to stop the Tar Holes and our offense is not strong enough against their #1 to match them in offensive output. Daniel Gossett is a very good pitcher and next June will be signing a big paycheck with a major league club. Sometimes, offense is just better than the pitcher on a given day (see our performance against Rodon at NCST).
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Member [21]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 35
Joined: 7/28/99
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Sadly leggett is done
Mar 31, 2013, 8:57 PM
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The results don't lie. He has progressively led us to mediocrity. What was once the premier ACC program is now middle of the road and getting worse. He was successful when he had Corbin and Sully. Now his recruiting is 2nd tier and since 2006 he has been owned by our rival. He is visibly tight under pressure sd the players play the same. Cant win the big ones like that. This is the same coach who took a pass on Roth and Wingo because they couldn't play at Clemson and we all know how that turned out. It's time for jack to retire. 0-4 in CWS agains the chickens, 1-6 against them in post season play in last decade. We expect more. And he's just reached the end. 10 years ago UNC and UVA barely could spell baseball. Now they dominate Clemson. That shouldn't be. We are recruiting poorly compared to others and need to call a spade a spade. Clemson is a place that winning the CWS is an expectation. It just won't happen under jack.
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Orange Blooded [3292]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6515
Joined: 1/13/04
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Re: Sadly leggett is done
Apr 1, 2013, 11:02 AM
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Why is "winning the CWS an expectation?" How many times has Clemson won the CWS? I mean seriously people you guys act like we are freaking Southern Cal. Clemson's baseball program is not where it was in the 90's, but to say winning the CWS is an expectation is an awfully lofty expectation for a program that has NEVER won the darn thing. We have been to the CWS only 12 times (1958, 1959, 1976, 1977, 1980, 1991, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2002, 2006, 2010) and never won it. Does it suck that USuC has bypassed us? Heck yes. Does it suck that UNCheat has bypassed? Heck yes. But those of you yearning for times passed of Clemson winning the CWS are seriously misremembering.
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All-TigerNet [14511]
TigerPulse: 79%
Posts: 22946
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Sadly leggett is done
Apr 1, 2013, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Sadly leggett is done ] |
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Sometimes it is just very laughable some of the total bs spewed on this board. Unbelievable.
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Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 22266
Joined: 4/25/04
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Re: Sadly leggett is done
Apr 1, 2013, 11:22 AM
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What in that was BS?
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Orange Blooded [2609]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6653
Joined: 9/1/11
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You're so transparent***
Mar 31, 2013, 10:34 PM
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