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All-In [26968]
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Free advice
Oct 13, 2021, 8:09 AM
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Never say anything personally negative about anybody, in public or private. Let your speech be always with grace.
This would significantly decrease your chances of facing negative consequences for offensive comments in the present or the future.
I feel bad for people who face negative consequences for things that happened perhaps at a different time in their life, but I rarely take the stance that the consequences are unjustified, especially if it's for someone in a leadership position. It's a lesson to us all...your words can hurt. Not only others, but yourself. And never count on anything being private.
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Lot o points [155991]
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The Lord loves a workin man and don't trust whitey.***
Oct 13, 2021, 8:11 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Society at large transitioning to a prison-like culture will
Oct 13, 2021, 10:10 AM
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be awesome for everyone, I'm sure.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know what that means in the context of my post.***
Oct 13, 2021, 10:16 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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What you are describing is basically prison culture
Oct 13, 2021, 10:17 AM
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Best watch what you say!! Or else...
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All-In [46843]
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OP says be careful what you say or it could come back to
Oct 13, 2021, 10:20 AM
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bite you later, especially racist and homophobic stuff
Lakebum:
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Watch what you say, never count on anything being private,
Oct 13, 2021, 10:26 AM
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consequences are justified....Sounds like the general overview of prison culture to me. I don't expect you to have the intelligence to foresee the long term ramifications of this type of mindset being common place.
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All-In [34114]
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In a sense, we're just returning to an earlier time.
Oct 13, 2021, 10:34 AM
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In small villages, you'd watch what you say because everyone knows everyone, word travels fast, and no one's life is truly private because you're not a stranger. This has a major impact on the role of one's reputation.
The internet has resurrected the importance of reputation in a world that has gone global and is full of strangers.
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110%er [5696]
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All-In [34114]
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I've heard of it but it sounds awful.***
Oct 13, 2021, 10:58 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Of course, there was also a closer sense of community
Oct 13, 2021, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to In a sense, we're just returning to an earlier time. ] |
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And you actually knew your neighbor, people largely weren't total strangers hiding in their house attacking people in anonymity for things that were done/said decades ago. The importance of reputation never needed to be resurrected, and anyone digging through peoples past to find fault are not contributing to the betterment of society. Quite the opposite.
Creating a Stalinist like society of social paranoia won't exactly lead to prosperity.
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All-In [34114]
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The other difference
Oct 13, 2021, 11:00 AM
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is that now a person's reputation is attacked by people whose own reputations tend to be unimportant because they're virtually anonymous and/or they're in a tribe who likes what they're doing.
You no longer have the same symmetry that you'd have in the small village.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Completely agree***
Oct 13, 2021, 11:01 AM
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All-In [26968]
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The mindset I was describing was everybody always
Oct 13, 2021, 10:35 AM
[ in reply to Watch what you say, never count on anything being private, ] |
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speaking in a graceful way to and about each other. If that is bad, then I dunno, I guess it'll just be bad. Seems like a good thing to me. And the Bible says that's how we should do it.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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If only we lived in a perfect world***
Oct 13, 2021, 11:15 AM
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All-In [26968]
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We don't of course, but we can, individually,
Oct 13, 2021, 11:18 AM
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strive to choose grace with our words. It's a conscious decision, an active effort. But it can be done.
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Orange Blooded [4021]
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All-In [26968]
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Legend [15749]
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Yes but the issue of the day relates to external forces.***
Oct 13, 2021, 12:10 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Not sure what to say to that.
Oct 13, 2021, 1:08 PM
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I'm replying to my post in the context of what my post is about. There are other threads specifically about "the issue of the day".
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Legend [15749]
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But it is unreasonable to expect people on a
Oct 13, 2021, 1:27 PM
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Political message board to take advice as benign as “don’t say things you wouldn’t want others to see” and NOT put it into the context of the current topics. Even for your approach to the board.
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All-In [26968]
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Sure, people can do that.
Oct 13, 2021, 1:33 PM
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No problem. The issue is when words are put in my mouth about the "current issue," when I didn't necessarily intend to address it thusly.
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Orange Blooded [2694]
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but that's not the American way
Oct 13, 2021, 10:27 AM
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we have survived 245 years because we are a brash, uncouth, in-your-face culture of alphas forcing you to deal with the reality that you suck, you need to improve yourself and others around you, #### your hyper-sensitive, petulant feelings.
Y'all need to take your medicine and get with the program or else we're gonna be run by a bunch of commies with skirts.
---yours truly, Coach Gruden
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Lot o points [155991]
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I'm not gonna lie, that fired me up a little.***
Oct 13, 2021, 1:40 PM
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110%er [5696]
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Re: Free advice
Oct 13, 2021, 10:55 AM
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What a crock.
"Words can hurt," really. Words sent by Gruden in a 1-to-1 email can hurt? Who did they hurt? Not the person sending or receiving the email. Only when released to the public is there any possibility of anyone being "hurt," and if the dude with big lips is hurt by that, then he takes the opinions of others too seriously. What about the person releasing the hurtful email to the public - how much blame does that person have?
Are you against comedians making fun of people because it hurts? The truth hurts, and in many cases comedians are speaking the truth that the rest of us might be afraid to say.
I take it you don't support Dave Chappelle? His last Netflix show has great reviews.
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All-In [26968]
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I can't say what words hurt or don't hurt anyone,
Oct 13, 2021, 11:01 AM
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with the exception of myself.
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All-In [26968]
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Though my post wasn't about Gruden specifically,
Oct 13, 2021, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: Free advice ] |
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I think I can confidently say one person who was hurt by those words. Jon Gruden. That was really the point of my post.
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All-In [42239]
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Jesus...
Oct 13, 2021, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Free advice ] |
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Every time I think you can't top one of your stupid replies, you go and totally redeem yourself.
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Hall of Famer [24135]
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Re: Jesus...
Oct 13, 2021, 11:55 AM
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You think NCTiger is Jesus?
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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All-In [42239]
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Well, he has sacrificed himself to make us all...
Oct 13, 2021, 12:03 PM
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Look a lot smarter.
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All-TigerNet [12595]
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All-In [26968]
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Could be, but this appears to be a poor example, perhaps?
Oct 13, 2021, 12:59 PM
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I read the article, and don't really see where there was any impactful "outrage". According to the article, administration got complaints and advised him to apologize. And nothing else happened.
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All-In [31932]
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Professional death sentences for people that think or....
Oct 13, 2021, 1:30 PM
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speak with different opinions or beliefs is just plain un-American. Not un-Constitutional, but definitely un-American.
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All-In [26968]
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Anymore, I care less and less about what is considered
Oct 13, 2021, 1:35 PM
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properly "American". I don't really know what that means usually, and I also don't know if that's necessarily a good thing.
What I posted, I believe lines up with the Bible, which means I believe is right. If it's un-American, then I would say America is wrong.
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All-In [31932]
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hmm...where in the Bible does it teach that....
Oct 13, 2021, 1:57 PM
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mistakes should be met with swift professional consequences? Frankly, I would say the Bible, especially New Testament teaches more about forgiveness.
The above is a serious question...I respect your Biblical insights.
I think some of the founding principals of this country are important and I strongly believe freedom of expression is one of the foundational principals of our country.
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All-In [26968]
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I didn't say that. Please re-read my OP.***
Oct 13, 2021, 2:05 PM
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All-In [26968]
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Lot o points [155991]
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But how about
Oct 13, 2021, 2:11 PM
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“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
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All-In [26968]
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Yes, wonderful verses.***
Oct 13, 2021, 2:12 PM
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Lot o points [155991]
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Seems to be ok with vocalized negativity towards another
Oct 13, 2021, 2:27 PM
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If the party doing the speaking feels aggrieved.
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All-In [26968]
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"Vocalized negativity".
Oct 13, 2021, 2:30 PM
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I am not OK with speaking to anyone without grace, because the Bible commands otherwise.
That doesn't mean you can't speak in a negative way. Indeed, my parents, teachers, Pastors, bosses, etc., have had to speak to me in a negative way many times in my life. I can say that in most cases, it has been done properly with grace.
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Lot o points [155991]
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Ok, I was just trying to follow the "keep it literal" theme
Oct 13, 2021, 3:07 PM
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You said, "Never say anything personally negative about anybody, in public or private."
I pointed out that's not exactly a biblical command. You mentioned grace separately but if you intended them hand in hand, ok.
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All-In [26968]
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"personally" being the key word there.
Oct 13, 2021, 3:12 PM
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"Obed shouldn't have done that" is not personally negative. That's a criticism, and I would say it's said with grace.
"That idiot Obed shouldn't have done that."
"Obed is ugly."
"Obed is a loser for doing that."
Those are personally negative, and devoid of grace. That kind of thing is normally what gets people in trouble. Not always, but usually.
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All-In [26968]
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Because the negativity is ascribed to your *person*
Oct 13, 2021, 3:15 PM
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not your *action*. There's a big difference, and we miss the mark on that, so, so much.
I kid you not that, especially when I'm in anything resembling a debate here, I review the post before I post it, for the potential that I said something about the *person* and not their *argument* or their *behavior*. It's not easy at times. I do a good job here, but I'm not close to perfect at it in the real world, when I don't have the opportunity to read before posting.
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Lot o points [155991]
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The line can get blurred though.
Oct 13, 2021, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to "personally" being the key word there. ] |
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"Bravoprod made a really poor decision that cost me dearly and irritated me greatly" isn't exactly calling you a dolt, but isn't speaking highly of your decision making skills either, but it's not personal.
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All-In [26968]
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And though I may not like what you said, and may
Oct 13, 2021, 3:21 PM
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even take personal offense, from an objective point of view, I don't see anything wrong with your statement.
My decision was the negative thing. Not me. And you're right, the line can be blurry, in particular to the target of the criticism.
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All-In [26968]
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And I don't recall of someone being "cancelled"
Oct 13, 2021, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to The line can get blurred though. ] |
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For saying something that sounded like that. I'm sure there is an exception out there, but that's not usually it.
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Hall of Famer [24135]
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Re: But how about
Oct 13, 2021, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to But how about ] |
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Man, nobody likes the IRS
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All-In [26968]
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Let's reset here:
Oct 13, 2021, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to Professional death sentences for people that think or.... ] |
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Please tell me what you think I'm saying, then I can respond. I feel like something is being ascribed to me that is not true. Notice my OP didn't mention Jon Gruden, and it also didn't say anything about whether anyone should be fired for anything.
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All-In [31932]
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It seemed a reasonable leap to believe you...
Oct 13, 2021, 2:31 PM
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were speaking to issues of Gruden...or the like. If not, it's a heck of coincidence 
" but I rarely take the stance that the consequences are unjustified, especially if it's for someone in a leadership position."
That gave me the impression that you agree with people being punished (consequences) for their private speech/opinions.
Of course, I agree with the statement that something put out via internet can't be considered private.
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All-In [26968]
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It's not that I "agree".
Oct 13, 2021, 2:38 PM
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I said I rarely take the stance that it's unjustified. Like, if an employer thinks something compromises an employee's ability to do their job, or it compromises the company, then I can't really say otherwise here from my computer.
Another way of talking about it may be "would I fire him?" I'd like to think "No," but it's hard to say, when I can't put myself in their position of knowledge and responsibility.
So that's a lot of "I dunno". But what I do know, and I hope it was clear, is that I feel bad for people like Mr. Gruden, because I think usually the single action doesn't define their character. I don't hold any animus, and certainly no happiness, about the consequences.
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All-In [26968]
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But my *overall point*
Oct 13, 2021, 2:42 PM
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Which didn't get much play, and I guess that's not a surprise, was that we have the power to make it very unlikely to happen to us, and it's by following a principle that we should be following anyway, regardless of issues of consequence. Because it's the right way to behave.
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All-In [26968]
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I just thought of a way to say this better...
Oct 13, 2021, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to It seemed a reasonable leap to believe you... ] |
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And this is pretty much literally true, in terms of my gestures when I read this stuff.
When something comes across the news where someone is fired (or similar) for something they did in the past...
Some people's reaction is "SERVES HIM RIGHT!"
Some people's reaction is "WHAT?! THAT'S NOT FAIR!"
My reaction is like a pursing of the lips and shaking of the head. Similar to how I would react to reading about how someone died in a car accident or something. No judgments about right/wrong, just a sadness.
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All-In [31932]
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I'm not far off from that myself....
Oct 13, 2021, 3:05 PM
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what I don't care for is people celebrating the punishing of someone for saying something that they don't agree with. I think it's a dangerous trend.
I don't agree or buy into a lot of the cultural issues created now on the right to rally against, but I do believe there is a legit "cancel culture" that needs to be changed.
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All-TigerNet [13165]
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Re: Free advice
Oct 13, 2021, 2:52 PM
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was anyone really "hurt".
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All-In [26968]
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In Coach Gruden's case, I bet he would say that he was.
Oct 13, 2021, 3:02 PM
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Given he's out of a job he presumably enjoyed doing, and was paid very well for (I don't know if he'll get his money or not).
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