Replies: 38
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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The Day Clemson BBall died – Final chance {part 11}
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May 25, 2023, 9:09 AM
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And they were singin', bye-bye, Miss American Pie Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry And them good ol’ boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye Singin', "This'll be the day that I die This'll be the day that I die." ------- fr. American Pie (1971)
…so, the Brownell sycophants have nothing left to argue now. Nevermore.
what you know / synopsis
What you know: The improbability of Clemson not making the NCAAT in 2014 was astronomical. And the last sequence of the 2023 Pitt game lays the responsibility purely at Brownell’s own feet. Neither Brownell nor the Clemson Admin ever acknowledged this responsibility, nor acknowledged how KJ McDaniels and his teammates had been let down.
Simply put, Clemson no longer has the goal of making the NCAA Tournament.
What you don’t know: Nuance. Preparation.
Synopsis: Clearly, Don McLean was so very much more prescient than the rest of us.
le fin
Clemson’s 2014 team had one final chance to garner an NCAA invite after the pivotal Pitt game, but they fell to Duke, 63-62, in the 1st round of the ACCT. Trailing by 1 with 3.8 seconds to traverse the full-length court, Brownell sent Rod Hall off on a 1-on-3 dash that ended with the ball poked harmlessly away in the lane. That Hall lay prone beyond the baseline afterwards seemed to call to the Faithful that yet again Clemson had been wrongly denied by the referees. “Controversial” was the term routinely offered up in both conversation and web reporting about the ending.
Not a single one of the contemporary Clemson commenters noted however that Hall had traveled on the play. He had picked the ball off the dribble before his left foot hit the 3-point line. He then re-planted the left foot again on the edge of the paint with his 3rd illegal step, just immediately prior the Duke player reaching in. It’s not a Euro-step. It’s traveling.
In any case, since Rod Hall’s back is turned to the camera, you can’t actually see if Hall is physically contacted. What you can determine is that Hall’s left hand (on the defender’s side) stays to his front and out of sight of camera angle throughout the entire sequence. It isn’t pulled behind him, or in the direction of the defender. Thus, when the ball pops both forward and right into another defender, it appears that there was no grabbing or physically downward blow. It appears that the poke from visual left to right was at least reasonably clean.
KJ McDaniels stands helplessly open at the right wing.
***ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ4JcUIU3p8
nuance
That ending ironically reminds this author of another NCAAT game barely two years later. Villanova sat at the far baseline then too, with something more than 4 seconds left to wrest a Championship from UNC. Head Coach Jay Wright authored a less direct plan than Hall and Brownell, one that had his driving guard kick the ball back to an unobtrusively trailing shooter, who in turn was stealthily using the point guard as an effective moving screen. Laughably, Kris Jenkins’ amazingly open, straight-assassin’s 3 might be remembered as much for the “cryin’ Michael Jordan” meme as for the sainted hardware it won. Notably, that was only the first of two Natties that the recently retired Wright won in his 21 seasons at Nova, nuance and preparation earning their hallowed due.
***ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FFJUz0tdo
*********
sad, repeating refrain – bye, bye
Unfortunately for Clemson, 2014 wasn’t a lone occurrence.
In the ten full years since, Clemson has only received two (2) NCAAT invites, fewer than all but three (3) of the other fourteen (14) ACC schools. As each unsuccessful year passes, it feels more and more like the Green Mile, for the day where it can all finally, mercifully die never actually arrives. For the day we can move on from Brad Brownell is never here. Until then, we’re all just good ol’ boys condemned to helpless, unending "overtime” of Hades.
*********
acknowledgement
As for “American Pie”, poet and songwriter Don McLean was only 25 when it was released in 1971. The rolling, catchy, yet haunting tune would easily become his signature piece. It topped the US charts for 4 weeks, making it to #1 in record time. Ultimately, it was named the #5 song in all the 20th century by the RIAA. It has been alternatively interpreted as an ode to either the original King of Rock and Roll, Buddy Holly, or possibly to McLean’s own Father, both sadly taken too young.
For a generation of young listeners though, its repetitive “bye, bye Miss American Pie” perfectly fit various ‘failed coming of age’ themes, and was co-opted even to the Vietnam War, may they never be forgotten. One hopes the estimable Mr. McLean will forgive this “author” for using his words as allusion to Clemson Basketball, who likewise “never got to Dance”.
***ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRpiBpDy7MQ
*********
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Ring of Honor [22500]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Are you channeling
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May 25, 2023, 9:11 AM
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Tolstoy...Faulkner...Michener? Jeebus!
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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I'll stop writing when they fire that A-Hole***
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May 25, 2023, 9:21 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3449]
TigerPulse: 70%
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Unlike You
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May 25, 2023, 9:24 AM
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CBB represents Clemson in a great way. I am sure you have never met him and would never call him that to his face. Loser.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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I represent Clemson in the Business world every dang day
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May 25, 2023, 9:33 AM
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If I sucked at my job as badly as Brownell does, they wouldn't let me do it even one more day.
Brownell is a Political appointee only, who has abused the notion of competition ever since the day he stepped on campus, as well as the kids he supposedly guides. He knows nothing about Basketball and is an absolute disgrace to the amount of money he has grifted from our School and our State.
That people like you and Mountaineer support him only shows that there was support for people like Adolph Hitler at one time too. People who don't understand Leadership are doomed to follow bad "leaders", and quite frankly, look ridiculous doing it.
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Clemson Icon [25720]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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this is LOL stupid...
May 25, 2023, 7:52 PM
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when you're writing on the Internet, you know nothing about the recipients: what historical figures they know by name, what background they have, what race or ethnicities they represent, which side of global arguments they fall on, what History classes they took, etc. etc. So you have to use as Global examples as you can find to make that point.
I didn't use the name to demonize Brownell - his coaching does that all by itself.
I simply pointed out that it didn't matter how bad (as opposed to evil) of a Leader a person was (i.e. Hitler), someone, somewhere was going to support that Leader even still. You have your Vichy France's wherever you go.
Brownell has his supporters; most are terribly ill-informed. They have their opinions, but they're uneducated (in basketball) opinions. But some people keep supporting the Peter Principled Leader no matter how bad things get, if for no other reason that their own ego can't accept being wrong.
Given his full track record at Clemson, and especially what happened in 2014, you'd have to be a person of supremely low IQ to actually somehow believe that Brownell is a "Good" basketball Coach comparative to what else exists in the ACC. It just ain't real. So most people who are still supporting him do so because they either like him personally, or because they don't want to be wrong. You have to believe that Eva Braun was in something of the same situation as well.
but hey, jmho
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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as above since you replied
May 25, 2023, 7:53 PM
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tigerdave2®
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Clemson Icon [25720]
TigerPulse: 100%
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whoever made the comparison loses the debate
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May 25, 2023, 11:25 PM
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"For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law."
Surely you can make your Brownell argument without invoking a Hitler reference. There's plenty of sound arguments against him. However, the fact that you couldn't argue it without mentioning Hitler speaks more to your IQ than the others challenging you in the thread.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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dear, dear Dave, so just because you and this
May 26, 2023, 10:52 AM
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other guy get together and say that no comparisons can be made to Hitler, then my IQ is low?
LOL.... Just when I think you Liberal control freaks can't come up with something more idiotic than the last, well, you show me just how arrogant you really are.
And by the by, when the day comes you want to meet and do dueling IQ tests, well you can count me in. Just T-Mail me, and we'll set something up. Happy to oblige.
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Clemson Icon [25720]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
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Bro, you brought up the low IQ mention
May 26, 2023, 7:03 PM
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Why so sensitive? We going to compare bank accounts next too?
I trust you’re smart enough to use valid Brownell arguments and avoid Hitler comparisons in your next round. That was laughable.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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You distort why and how I used the example
May 26, 2023, 9:49 PM
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based on a "wikipedia" blurb, then you say to me that it reflects upon my IQ. How could it reflect upon my IQ when you've got my intent all wrong?
Then you want to say that I'm sensitive? Well at least I'm not presumptive and arrogant beyond measure.
So is there any context in which you can speak without being manipulative? I doubt it.
This is why I DESPISE Liberals. Truly hate them for who they are, "human beings" or not. They have no respect for the truth in any way. They seek only their own "glory" by manipulating others. It's what the Snake did to Eve in the Garden. One should take note.
I repeat again, I used the example only because it cannot be argued by any sane person. If you want to spin it for your purposes or the purposes of some pseudo psychological hack, well you are who you are: wrong, manipulative, and not nearly as smart as you pretend.
Now get the hail off my yard with your BS. You bore me with your liberal crap.
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Clemson Icon [25720]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
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Another sign of low IQ is bringing politics into a discussion
May 27, 2023, 4:49 PM
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That’s not about politics.
Just accept your L like Brownell also does and move along to somebody else that cares about your tears.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Like I said, "I'll meet you any day"... just T-mail me, lady***
May 28, 2023, 2:42 AM
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Clemson Icon [25720]
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Re: Like I said, "I'll meet you any day"... just T-mail me, lady***
May 28, 2023, 1:13 PM
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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There's Clover65, and there's little Internet S*H*I*T's like
May 28, 2023, 1:29 PM
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you, Dave.
Who do you think that I worry about in my spare time? Whose opinion do you think that I value? Who do you think that I pray for at the end of the day, and think about almost first thing the next? Whose comment stream do you think that I go back and re-read when time permits?
Who do you think is valuable to the rest of us, Dave?
You made a disparaging comment. You attacked my intent, and then my validity.
I gave you an option. That option sits in front of you every day from now on.
Unlike Clover65, and all of his buddies, you won't even have the courage to get up and take a plss when the time comes.
I don't call out Clover65's name because he validates me somehow; he may not even like me. I call it out because, unlike you, he clearly has honor, and courage, while you do not. Take a walk, pumpkin.
clover65®
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Legend [6933]
TigerPulse: 99%
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This is his most talented team if Hall comes back
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May 25, 2023, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Unlike You ] |
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Please refrain from your hate, unless he fails this year! Talking to rhe original poster and all the haters here!
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Hall of Famer [9034]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Unless he fails THIS year? What about the previous 13??
May 26, 2023, 8:17 AM
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some of you people are literally insane.
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Heisman Winner [85969]
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Re: Are you channeling
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May 25, 2023, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to Are you channeling ] |
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I'm just glad that it maybe, finally, is over?
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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I didn't make you read one line. Not one. It cost you $0.
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May 25, 2023, 9:57 AM
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Clemson, in turn, forced you to put up with Brad Brownell for 13+ years, all the while he grifted your IPTAY donations to the tune of Tens of Millions of dollars.
Is your attention span so small that it cannot come to grips with that reality?
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Dynasty Maker [3449]
TigerPulse: 70%
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Thank God this is over
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May 25, 2023, 9:22 AM
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Please return to the Lunatic Fringe Clubhouse immediately
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Why don't you return to the Basketball Trophy case room
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May 25, 2023, 9:34 AM
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oh wait....
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Hall of Famer [9034]
TigerPulse: 97%
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The irony of your post is, undoubtedly, lost on you
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May 25, 2023, 10:07 AM
[ in reply to Thank God this is over ] |
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You do understand that, there are literally only a handful of you mindless twits that dont want Clownell gone, right? And most of those are likely all the same person......
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Clemson Icon [24210]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2003
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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After 13 YEARS and I write 11 posts?
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May 25, 2023, 11:43 AM
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I think the word you were looking for is
"NO LONGER PAYING DUES TO IPTAY OR ANY OTHER CLEMSON PROGRAM SO LONG AS Brad Brownell IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO STEAL FROM THE UNIVERSITY".
And oh by the way, Completely Solid Buffoon, please tell me when the last time YOU came up with a statistical trend on the NCAAT that no one else had?
Yeah, thought not.
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Orange Phenom [14136]
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The best part about this series
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May 25, 2023, 10:06 AM
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Is it'll give the authorities a head start when they begin their investigation on what triggered olemike.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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13 long, tedious, boring, unsuccessful, monotonous,
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May 25, 2023, 11:46 AM
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laughable years hardly lends itself to "triggering" someone.
Killing that someone with the "Agony of Defeat" would be the more likely outcome.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Don McLean deserves a bump
May 25, 2023, 5:45 PM
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don’t ya think?
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Heisman Winner [79984]
TigerPulse: 100%
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No.
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May 25, 2023, 7:57 PM
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Everyone is tired of your Scok's rants.
Work some overtime or read your first book or something.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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I know that this must be difficult for an Einstein like you
May 25, 2023, 8:11 PM
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to comprehend,
but reading stuff on the Internet is voluntary-only. You don't have to read it if you don't want to.
That lack of self-will is purely on you.
So carry on, and find something with pictures next time. You'll enjoy it more.
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Heisman Winner [79984]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Laughing at you missing the forest for the trees again
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May 25, 2023, 11:40 PM
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never gets old.
Your one club bag routine isn't attractive, but do you, baldy.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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“Isn’t attractive”? LOFL
May 26, 2023, 3:15 AM
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Let’s put it this way BBO: you could die the most popular person on the planet, and there could be but three people at my funeral, and I still wouldn’t give a sailor’s bumpkins. Giving a ### about the way the world turns never made my list. Giving a ### about smartazz narcissists like you is even more laughable. So, no, “you do you”; if you think it works for you, then be all you can be. My path is well provided for, with or without your approval. Always will be.
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110%er [3666]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: The Day Clemson BBall died – Final chance {part 11}
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May 25, 2023, 8:21 PM
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Love me some McLean. I've got several LPs I listen to regularly.
However, I think your post has more in common with "Dredel" than "American Pie".
While Tiger basketball disappointment is both legendary and historic, your interpretation of history is not divine. Instead you remind me of Rachel Maddow "interpreting" current events, charlatan preachers omitting Scripture verses in a passage that contradict them, or ancient Egyptian magi using selected stars in the night sky to draw pictures of the gods they thought up.
Feel free to express your disappointment in whatever method floats your boat. Generally, unless you're simply a fascist at heart, great disappointment must find an outlet. I get that.
But please don't ever be so mind-numbed and un-American as to think that no one of good faith and intellect could possibly disagree with you. The day you have the capability of thinking for me, one of us isn't necessary. And my wife still prefers me, so I hope you can find meaning in life somewhere else.
Ciao.
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110%er [3666]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: The Day Clemson BBall died – Final chance {part 11}
May 25, 2023, 8:21 PM
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Love me some McLean. I've got several LPs I listen to regularly.
However, I think your post has more in common with "Dredel" than "American Pie".
While Tiger basketball disappointment is both legendary and historic, your interpretation of history is not divine. Instead you remind me of Rachel Maddow "interpreting" current events, charlatan preachers omitting Scripture verses in a passage that contradict them, or ancient Egyptian magi using selected stars in the night sky to draw pictures of the gods they thought up.
Feel free to express your disappointment in whatever method floats your boat. Generally, unless you're simply a fascist at heart, great disappointment must find an outlet. I get that.
But please don't ever be so mind-numbed and un-American as to think that no one of good faith and intellect could possibly disagree with you. The day you have the capability of thinking for me, one of us isn't necessary. And my wife still prefers me, so I hope you can find meaning in life somewhere else.
Ciao.
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Hall of Famer [8226]
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Re: The Day Clemson BBall died – Final chance {part 11}
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May 26, 2023, 7:18 AM
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For the handful of Brownell supporters that still remain the real loyalty is derived from the same reasons: 1. fear of change, fear than the next guy will be worse than the guy we have. 2. Direct monetary reward for being having Brad as coach. These are the same reasons to keep a bad leaders in power in politics and business.
I know a few guys that graduated from other ACC schools, and they just laugh at Brad Brownell and wonder who he has pictures of. We Clemson fans feel the same. If you still want Brad as our coach and you are not being directly compensated by him or his people, I seriously question your intellect
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Varsity [131]
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Re: The Day Clemson BBall died – Final chance {part 11}
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May 26, 2023, 10:14 AM
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This is the most misleading post of all the anti Brownell posts I have ever seen.
I think Your point is clemson basketball died after losing to Duke in 2014? And it seems your stating that Brownell is at fault for Rod hall mishandling the ball as the clock ticked down.
So the program dies because clemson loses a neutral site game to the number 7 team in the nation by 1? That’s a very interesting claim. Not once did you meantion that Duke was a very good team. They were an elite 8 team that year.
3 years later Clemson played in the Sweet 16 so they obviously didn’t die that night. Why didn’t you address that when claiming Clemson Basketball was dead?
You said this game was in the first round off the ACC tournament. But that was a lie, it was the quarterfinals, Clemson had already won a tournament game. I wish I thought that was an honest mistake, but I’m pretty sure you knew that and just slid the “first round” comment in for effect. You seem to like that.
You pointed out that Rod Hall tried to be the hero and left KJ wide open waiting for a shot. We all know KJ was a great player and on the surface that sounds like a horrible blunder. But you didn’t mention that Rod Hall was Clemsons leading scorer that night. Not only that, but he was great in that second half. He was the “hot hand”. KJ on the other hand, was well below his season average that night. It was one of his worst scoring games of the season.
Come on dude, Just be honest.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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I'm sorry that you didn't read enough of my posts to truly
May 26, 2023, 9:52 PM
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understand what was being said.
I spent almost two complete posts talking about the specifics of the Pitt game, and another two posts talking about the implications of a win in the Pitt game. How could you then suggest that I was saying Clemson BBall died at the Duke game?
Suggestion: Read for content before trying to tell someone they're wrong.
Clovereagle64
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Rival Killer [2964]
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Interesting. And Credibility.
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May 27, 2023, 3:53 AM
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I’ve read all 11 of your posts. You raise a lot of interesting points and I especially liked the way you tied into “American Pie”.
When you write something like this you have to expect that you’re going to be challenged on parts of it. That’s just the way it is. But you lose credibility when you try to argue with every one who challenges you and you make it worse when you insult them. It says to the reader you’re not comfortable with what you’re saying. Let your writing stand for itself. The post becomes about the fight and loses its point.
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Standout [340]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Actually, I’d say my ire comes in large part because
May 27, 2023, 5:47 AM
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very few if any have argued the basis of the posts. Instead, I get the snark from Board egoists about how long the posts are ( as if I personally made them read anything), the dismissiveness of Brownell supporters who attack personally but not the points in the posts, and then finally, those like TigerDave, who join the fray as little more than political mercenaries supporting the other side. These last are purely personal attacks in that they’re intended to belittle me as part of a side argument and specifically not as part of review of the points of the posts.
Again, few if any have argued the statistics I have provided, nor the logic associated. Basically, it has just been the varied types of personal attacks by those who seek to limit the effectiveness of the message, but don’t have the supporting facts to argue the message.
This what the Left has been taught to do in modern America: if the message cannot be effectively limited, then attack the messenger. I tend to fight this method just on principle alone. That’s because the method is almost always counterproductive to the clarity of the issue at hand, and any possibility of real movement forward.
It seems it’s this last bit that you are making comment on, and while I appreciate the comment and the apparent intent, I will just politely disagree. I am indeed tired of supposed liberal “thinkers” winning the day, not because they have solid points, but instead simply because no one would take them on. The resultant farce is often equitable to having a Coach who personally blows his team’s chance for glory, instead of leading them to new heights. The stupidity of such is simply too much to let go unchallenged anymore. Best.
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