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Ring of Honor [21202]
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Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:37 AM
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He also promptly lost in each appearance, never getting over the hump. Whatever the real story is of him leaving, is not a good one...lest you all forget he bolted, left the cupboard bare and the program in shambles.
Just want to make sure all the people referencing OP are not hanging their hat on the 4 Tourney appearances and forgetting all the rest. Because that's what I'm reading on the board.
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Orange Elite [5455]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:40 AM
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OP was pushed outta town..He got tired of waiting on the athletic department to more emphasis on the basketball program and this fan base got way to greedy and started calling for his head for some reason...
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110%er [7719]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:41 AM
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OP was not pushed out of town...
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Ring of Honor [21202]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:43 AM
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Who cares what happened. He left suddenly and left us with nothing but an angry and impatient fanbase.
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110%er [7719]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:45 AM
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I ####### care. Stop glossing over a man who left in the middle of the night without the guts to even tell his players. They found out through the news.
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Ring of Honor [21202]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 11:47 AM
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I'm on your side man. That's what I'm saying. But my point wasn't the reason he left. It was that he left us with nothing and people seem to have forgotten everything but the fact that he made a few tourneys.
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Varsity [203]
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Ring of Honor [22313]
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Paw Warrior [5074]
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Re: Who exactly was calling for OP's head?
Jan 20, 2017, 1:14 PM
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His job probably wasn't in question with those with the power to actually fire him, but I do recall seeing many fans calling for his head because he couldn't win a tournament game. I couldn't believe it at the time because of our lack of tradition in basketball, but many fans wanted a new guy because they felt he choked in big games. I'm not saying that it had anything to do with him leaving, but it was stupid that people felt that way. Many of those same people are now making excuses for Brownell by saying it's really hard to win here in basketball.
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Orange Blooded [2474]
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Mrs. OP was calling for his head.
Jan 20, 2017, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Who exactly was calling for OP's head? ] |
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OP couldn't keep it in his pants. Really tired of hearing folks say that the reason he left was because Clemson wouldn't pony up more dough. It wasn't a pretty situation.
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Asst Coach [824]
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I wouldn't exactly say he left the cupboard bare...
Jan 20, 2017, 11:43 AM
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since that's the only team that Brownell has taken to the NCAA tournament during his tenure at Clemson. If Purnell left the cupboard bare, then where are we at now?
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Varsity [203]
TigerPulse: 92%
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He left a good group of starters but hadn't recruited behind
Jan 20, 2017, 11:44 AM
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them. That's the cupboard, and it was bare.
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Ring of Honor [21202]
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Ring of Honor [22313]
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The team he left had talent-he left no recruiting class however
Jan 20, 2017, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to I wouldn't exactly say he left the cupboard bare... ] |
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Missing an entire class sets you back. No excuse for where we are in year 7 of Brad, but a true statement
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Ring of Honor [21202]
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Re: The team he left had talent-he left no recruiting class however
Jan 20, 2017, 11:48 AM
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I will agree Brad has had some time, and the restlessness of the fanbase is expected.
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Asst Coach [824]
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Dabo could say the same thing about recruiting following
Jan 20, 2017, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to The team he left had talent-he left no recruiting class however ] |
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his hire. That first recruiting class was super thin. It didn't seem to hinder his ability to lead the team on to bigger and better things.
Much like the OP I see this same cupboard was bare type of statement in reference to Purnell's departure and frankly see it as an excuse for Brownell. It really shouldn't be though...Brownell understood the situation and should've been busting his tail to fill that cabinet while at the same time coaching up the players that were there.
And in the end your last point is the most obvious one, in year 7 of a coaching tenure what does it really matter how things looked roster-wise 7 years ago?
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110%er [7719]
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Re: Dabo could say the same thing about recruiting following
Jan 20, 2017, 11:52 AM
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Basketball and Football are two completely different animals.
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Ring of Honor [22313]
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Asst Coach [824]
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I don't disagree with that at all
Jan 20, 2017, 11:56 AM
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But is it a good reason to STILL be struggling?
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110%er [7719]
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Re: I don't disagree with that at all
Jan 20, 2017, 11:57 AM
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Dude he literally said in his post..."No excuse for where we are in year 7 of Brad, but a true statement "
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Asst Coach [824]
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I saw that, thank you***
Jan 20, 2017, 12:00 PM
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Dabo had half a class, OP left no one
Jan 20, 2017, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to Dabo had half a class, OP left no one ] |
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Factually incorrect. We had 2 scholarships that year. OP had Marcus Thornton, GA's Mr. Basketball, signed and was rolling the other over to next year. Brownell failed to keep Thornton committed. Thornton ended up being fairly good (8 and 6, 12 and 7) once he got His attitude adjusted.
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Ring of Honor [22313]
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And decommitted before Brad even became coach
Jan 20, 2017, 1:30 PM
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He had no chance to keep him, leaving him with zero
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Ring of Honor [21202]
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Re: And decommitted before Brad even became coach
Jan 20, 2017, 1:35 PM
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It's like people have Alzheimer's or something. Was I sleeping when OP was a great coach at Clemson?
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Orange Blooded [2457]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: And decommitted before Brad even became coach
Jan 20, 2017, 1:59 PM
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I guess you missed us being during parts of 4 straight seasons, 3 NCAA Tournaments, an ACC Title Game appearance, 6 straight years of post season play, and 2009 where we were ranked for the entire span of ACC play.
No one is saying Purnell was Coach K. He was just a lot better than his successor.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: And decommitted before Brad even became coach
Jan 20, 2017, 2:00 PM
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*us being ranked during parts of 4 straight seasons
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Ring of Honor [22313]
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Among the best we've had
Jan 20, 2017, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: And decommitted before Brad even became coach ] |
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And I think I speak for most in that no one wanted him to leave, or expected it.
Wound up career suicide on his part. Too bad, he could have had the court named after him
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Orange Blooded [2457]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: And decommitted before Brad even became coach
Jan 20, 2017, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to And decommitted before Brad even became coach ] |
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OP left him a recruit. That is all I was refuting from your post. Brownell failed to keep him.
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Ring of Honor [22313]
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How can you keep someone who decommits before you arrive?
Jan 20, 2017, 2:04 PM
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He was gone before Brad got here
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: How can you keep someone who decommits before you arrive?
Jan 20, 2017, 2:13 PM
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Brownell still had a visit with him and couldn't keep him. OP kept Vernon Hamilton after Shyatt left so it has been done before here. All I'm saying is OP left him a recruit who was signed to the program and not a "empty class"
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Ring of Honor [22313]
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Decomitted means he wasn't left
Jan 20, 2017, 2:31 PM
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He walked away from his NLI
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CU Medallion [20860]
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A special talent like Demontez Stitt will make any coach
Jan 20, 2017, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to I wouldn't exactly say he left the cupboard bare... ] |
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look good. FWIW he led all four of those tourney teams, 3 with OP and Brad's first. Before, and after, we've been a mostly stagnant program.
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Varsity [104]
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Loved Stitt
Jan 20, 2017, 12:29 PM
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Never gave in. Fantastic player.......RIP
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Paw Warrior [5074]
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Re: A special talent like Demontez Stitt will make any coach
Jan 20, 2017, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to A special talent like Demontez Stitt will make any coach ] |
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Stitt was great, but I don't think it's really fair to give him the most credit for all 4 of those years. During his Freshman season he averaged 8.8 points and 3.0 assists per game. The next season he averaged 8.7 points and 3.8 assists per game. In fact, for his career he averaged 10.8 points and 3.3 assists per game. I'm not saying that's all there is to a players game, and I'm not saying those are bad stats, or that he wasn't a key player. I'm just saying that those numbers don't jump off the page to where you'd say he made any coach look better than they actually were or that he was the one to lead those 4 NCAA appearances.
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CU Medallion [20860]
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I just recall too many instances where he was the man that
Jan 20, 2017, 4:30 PM
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was getting it done in tight games when we needed a floor leader. You're right his stats didn't scream "superstar", but in a sport that has so many close finishes on a regular basis, having a closer on your roster at guard is invaluable. I posted at the time he graduated that our team would suffer until it found another player like him. Whether that was a right or wrong assessment of the situation, we sure haven't achieved that level of finishing since.
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National Champion [7564]
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How many years should BB get to take us to were OP did?***
Jan 20, 2017, 12:04 PM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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27***
Jan 20, 2017, 12:07 PM
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110%er [7719]
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Re: 27***
Jan 20, 2017, 12:09 PM
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Dude most people have said starting two years ago this year was NCAA T or bust. You continue to only show up when things are going bad and quite frankly it is sad and says a lot about you as a fan.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I'm sorry......have a snickers
Jan 20, 2017, 12:23 PM
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you turn into a little ##### when you are hungry
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110%er [7719]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I'm sorry......have a snickers
Jan 20, 2017, 12:29 PM
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another quality post from you... sad.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I'm know all my post are quality.
Jan 20, 2017, 12:37 PM
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Quality like Zlatan!
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Clemson Icon [24728]
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That's a straw man. That is not what you are reading on the
Jan 20, 2017, 12:20 PM
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board.
Regardless of what any of us felt about OP, his accomplishments in succeeding Larry Shyatt are far far far greater than those of Brad Brownell in the exact same amount of time with less to work with. It is not the standard or the ceiling for this program, but the floor of accomplishment that we know is possible and that we should demand at a minimum. It also serves as a factual counter to those who say that we have no right to expect anything more than what we are getting.
That's what I have been reading on the board.
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Clemson Icon [24728]
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clarification: OP had less to work with in following Larry
Jan 20, 2017, 12:22 PM
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Shyatt than Brownell had in following OP.
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Asst Coach [824]
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Varsity [203]
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Clemson Icon [24728]
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I credit OP with brownell's first Tournament bid.
Jan 20, 2017, 12:31 PM
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so, that means i was one short on the "fars." 
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Standout [315]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 12:31 PM
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He also couldn't get the money or resources he needed and asked for because the AD and administration didn't care about basketball (apparently still don't).
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Varsity [203]
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"apparently still don't"
Jan 20, 2017, 12:47 PM
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Please explain.
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Orange Immortal [64047]
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OP still live on the lake?
Jan 20, 2017, 12:32 PM
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lost track of what he's doing now.
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TigerNet Immortal [173081]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 1:03 PM
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when OP left it shocked the heck out of me. I have/had faith in BB but I'm a patient person and I losing it with BB. I thought this was going to be the year we might have made some noise but the only noise I'm hearing is rustling from the Clemson faithful.
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TigerNet Immortal [176590]
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OP was ultimately 7 seasons of nothingness.
Jan 20, 2017, 1:04 PM
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Barnes used the Slab 5's physical, grinding style because it was all he had, and adapted his style as he started getting players in who fit what he wanted. Got us to the sweet 16 doing just that.
OP introduced and kept his gimmicky 40 minute full court press style for 7 seasons because it was all he had---he was a one trick pony. It didn't lend itself to consistent recruiting of high caliber players (certainly there were exceptions), but it resulted in a team that was completely worn out by season's end and easy pickings for NCAA tournament-caliber teams.
We might as well have kept Shyatt for 7 more years for all the good it did us.
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Clemson Icon [24728]
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What does that say about Brad Brownell?
Jan 20, 2017, 1:34 PM
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Trickless Pony?
Although, it's impossible to argue with any credibility that 7 straight seasons with postseason play is the same as what we experienced under Shyatt.
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TigerNet Immortal [176590]
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Trickless Pony? That's harsh.
Jan 20, 2017, 1:54 PM
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I prefer "no-trick pony". Sounds so much nicer.
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Clemson Icon [24728]
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That was my initial choice.
Jan 20, 2017, 1:57 PM
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But, for some reason, I went with Trickless.
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Paw Warrior [5074]
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Re: OP was ultimately 7 seasons of nothingness.
Jan 20, 2017, 1:47 PM
[ in reply to OP was ultimately 7 seasons of nothingness. ] |
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7 season's of nothingness? What exactly would be your definition of something then? Gimmick or not, at least it made us competitive. We have never, and will likely never recruit talent in basketball that is on the level of other teams in our conference such as Duke, UNC, Louisville, Syracuse, etc... and when you're at a large disadvantage in talent why would you play in a traditional way? The gimmick at least took teams out of the comfort zone and helped level the playing field a bit.
I also don't think our team really showed signs of wearing down late in the season during that run either. In the 2007-2008 year we went 7-3 over our final 10 games before the NCAA tournament which included making a run to the ACC Championship game where we lost to #1 UNC by 5 points after we beat #9 Duke in the game before that. The next season we did sort of fall apart near the end of the season, and the year after that we went 6-4 down the stretch. Those are all ACC games however where we traditionally have finished with a losing or near .500 record anyway so I'm not sure I'd blame that on our team getting worn out. Just as a comparison, we also went 6-4 in our last 10 regular season games in Brownell's first season. We then went 5-5 in our last 10 of his 2nd year, 1-9 the year after that, 6-4 the next, 3-7, and then 4-6 last season.
If you'd rather compare that to Barnes then his team went 6-4 during the final 10 regular season games in 1997-1998 and lost in the first round of the NCAAA tournament. In the sweet sixteen season of 1996-1998 we went 5-5 over the final 10 prior to the tournament. Yes we did win the two NCAA tournament games, but they were also over Miami Ohio and Tulsa. We also went 5-5 over our final 10 games in the 1995-1996 season before losing in the first round of the NCAA tournament.
My point is that I don't see anything in the results to suggest that our teams were exhausted at the end of the season under Purnell. Just because we lost in the first round those 3 years doesn't mean there was some sort of reason behind it other than we simply lost.
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Clemson Icon [24728]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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I forgot about the ACC Championship run to the title game
Jan 20, 2017, 1:56 PM
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under Purnell. That was a fun ### weekend! Would love to experience that again!
But, alas, that does not seem likely.
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TigerNet Immortal [176590]
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I'm quite sure I couldn't find it now, but I've read quotes
Jan 20, 2017, 1:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: OP was ultimately 7 seasons of nothingness. ] |
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from former players during the era that as much as admitted that they were pretty pooped by tourney time.
And as for the reason we lost---it was absolutely the press. Preparing for playing OP-led Clemson was like prepping to play a Paul Johnson-led Georgia Tech. The right coach with the right horses can beat it all day long, and those are exactly the teams and coaches that make it to the tourney.
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Trainer [47]
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Re: Yes, OP took us to 4 NCAA's...3 straight to end his tenure.
Jan 20, 2017, 2:58 PM
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OP was a better a coach than Brad Brownell, and he also wasn't on the hot seat. He left on his own and rumored to be due to things off the court.
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Top TigerNet [30013]
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4 is better than 1***
Jan 20, 2017, 3:12 PM
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110%er [3821]
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in "program terms", no, it's not....
Jan 20, 2017, 4:10 PM
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and that's why people like you don't get it.
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Top TigerNet [30013]
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I don't get the bending over backward
Jan 20, 2017, 4:19 PM
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and sideways and every which way to defend an unsuccessful coach. So now the argument is that 1 tournament appearance is better than 4? What's next?
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110%er [3821]
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like these jerks really care about facts...
Jan 20, 2017, 4:08 PM
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but I gave you a TU for trying.
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