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Freshman [-79]
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Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:35 PM
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We were winning the entire game up until 10:54 left in the game when the chickens kicked their FG to go up 31-30.
Not time to panic. Plenty of time left to muster a scoring drive.
The Tigers only had 3 more possessions after that, needing only a FG to go ahead or win the game.
Possession 1:
3 plays
DJ run for 3 yds.
DJ incomplete pass
DJ incompete pass
Ball at our 28 yd line, 10:10 left.
Okay, not a great drive but still tons of time left and down just one. Punt.
Coots went 5 plays for 19 yards. 7:06 left. Punt.
Possession 2:
Ball downed at our 2 yd line.
2 plays.
Shipley 7 yards + facemask.
1st down.
In a tendency breaker, DJ drops back to throw. Overthrows wide open WR. Int coots. 6:37 left. Plenty of time.
Coots went 3 plays, -1 yd and out. Punt. 4:19 left.
Possession 3:
Ball downed at our 3.
DJ back in.
Coots playing run, Shipley 2 yds to the 5.
Coots stacking box on 2 and 8, so we throw to cross them up. Shipley gets in the flat and is tripped up after 3 yards.
3rd down and 5.
DJ pass, Interference on coots. 1st down. 3:02 left.
DJ pass incomplete
DJ pass incomplete
DJ pass incomplete.
Missed open guys on all 3, especially an open WR on 3rd down that would have taken across midfield.
Punt. 2:39 left. We need a stop
Coots take over from their 16.
Lloyd 4 yds.
Rattler -1 yd.
Rattler incomplete pass.
4th down. Coots punting from their 19 with 2:05 left. Should get the ball in great field position with over two minutes.
Antonio William returns the punt to the our 44 and we're looking great. But, fumble. Coots ball. Get 1st down.
Ballgame.
So, we had 3 possessions after the only lead the coots took.
1st possession. Obviously we were winning, and in spite of a poor completion %, DJ has managed the game with the lead until then. No need to take him out down only 1.
2nd possession. DJ with horrible INT.
3rd possession. DJ back out with just over 3 minutes. Again, only down one and plenty of time. I don't think you throw the true freshman out there in that scenario.
DJ 3 incompleteness.
Williams fumble. Game.
So I ask, why would we have replaced the QB who was winning the game with under 10 minutes left in the game? Down 1, needing only a FG, we kept DJ in. Makes sense.
With the 2nd last possession, still time for DJ down 1. The INT would have had him benched, at least for a series or two, HAD THEIR BEEN MORE TIME IN THE GAME. That's what I think anyway. But with the time left and all things considered, you try to ride the horse that brought you. The final possession obviously was not the time to insert the not-yet-ready true freshman either.
Bottom line is, there was no reason during the game to bench the QB who was winning the game. Then with time running out, it was not the best idea to insert Cade under that pressure. Plus we were buried deep on our end for the last 3 possessions, and even if Dabo lost his mind and chucked Cade out there, then fans would be griping about inserting Cade deep in our territory under all that pressure. So yeah, we didn't chuck him out there.
I just don't see where we could have / should have put Cade out there. Don't say "when wee were winning" and don't say "deep in our territory, under pressure".
Let's go Tigers. Finish strong! Still a ton of accomplishment to play for...
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:39 PM
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After the Syracuse game? *shrugs*
But specifically in this game I would say after he got dinged on his hip. He wasn't going to be a threat to run the ball after that and by then we knew which DJ we had and he WASN'T winning that game with his arm.
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Legend [16259]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:53 PM
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That seemed like a great opportunity last night at that stage of the game to run CK out for a stretch. Not as much of a pressure point and would likely have been run heavy, which we did really well with throughout. But alas.
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 9:02 PM
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Their handling of the QB position this year has been truly baffling.
They don't get Cade in when they could to get him some work (like the third series of a game in a planned manner), then put him in at the 6 yard line against ND when we're down 14 in the 4th quarter?
Put him in vs. Syracuse but only let him throw twice? And that 2 pt. conversion he had was a top notch throw so it's not like he can't do it.
I don't know what's going on, but it ain't all welding together true.
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Freshman [-79]
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I'm with you
Nov 28, 2022, 12:45 AM
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I do think though there must have been a reason they didn't let him throw more against Cuse, but I do remember a near INT when they did. They shut him down after that. The 2-pt pass was a thing of beauty, but then there was that near INT, then the decision against Notre Dame. Throwing late, across his body, and over the middle was not the playcall.
So I dont know, maybe that stuff formed some future decisions after that?
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All-American [557]
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Freshman [-79]
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I can see some reasoning for both sides of the coin.
Nov 28, 2022, 12:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Should DJ have been replaced?.. ] |
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Yeah, I think it would have been nice to play Cade at some point earlier, but easier for me to say that in hindsight.
Thing is, even if Cade did play earlier, I'm pretty sure with 10 minutes left and losing the lead for the first time, DJ would have been the 1st choice to lead the team to a score. Just a field goal (dangit!)
I don't know about you, but I felt confident we would go win that game.
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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Re: I can see some reasoning for both sides of the coin.
Nov 28, 2022, 7:55 AM
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I had no confidence we would go win the game.
I'm pretty black-pilled on this offense. I thought MAYBE if they had sense and ran the ball right when it looked like we got the return to midfield (of course then there was the fumble)... but the previous two or three drives? Nah, as soon as I saw DJ trot out there over and over again I knew we weren't going to flip a switch and have a functioning offense.
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Freshman [-79]
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I mean Cade did a great job handing off against Syracuse.
Nov 28, 2022, 12:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: Should DJ have been replaced?.. ] |
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But yep, if there were any good spots, that would have been the one. DJ did seem a little banged up at that point, but he seemed to shake it off fairly quickly.
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Head Coach [789]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:48 PM
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No DJ should not have been recruited.
Why would you recruit a quarterback that requires you to adjust the entire way you scheme. DJ is a round peg in a square hole.
This is part of the 2 year problem I don't understand.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:59 PM
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ksarrat Exactly. I don’t get why dabo putin insists on this guy and nobody will stray for the narrative. If he comes back next 2 years klubnick will transfer and we will have to deal w excuses every loss about how it isn’t Dj fault. Da o did it w Kelly Bryant genius move so what’s difference. If klubnick not the guy get someone
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Freshman [-79]
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:51 PM
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at 14 to nothing, Cade should have gotten a series.
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All-In [48330]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:54 PM
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He should have come in that first possession after scar went up. As you said, we had plenty of time at that point but dj had looked horrible and out of sync since the first half. Then the 3rd quarter, he looked lost.
Moreso than that, whoever was in, we should have gone with 21 or 22 personnel and kept pounding the ball. Cade faster runner and can get to the outside. If he scores great, if not dj can come back in like at ND.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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exactly even winning, we were giving coots all the momentum
Nov 27, 2022, 9:02 PM
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in the 2nd 1/2
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Freshman [-79]
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I honestly don't think we just throw him
Nov 28, 2022, 1:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: Should DJ have been replaced?.. ] |
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out there with the game on the line in a pressure cooker game. You give the most proven incumbent, the guy that got you there, and you give him the chance to go win it. That, and I think it was too risky at that point to insert the not-yet-ready true freshman.
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CU Guru [1363]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:55 PM
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Man you sound like Dabo. DJ was not winning that game at any point. Defensive scores and will Shipley were winning that game. What I’m the #### are you smoking?
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Orange Blooded [2371]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:55 PM
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I don't disagree with your logic, as far as it goes. However, you've taken it out of context, IMO. I would have replaced DJ in the 3rd quarter when he was totally ineffective (I think it was after the injury). At that point, The offense had been impotent for almost a full quarter. Put Cade in at that point and RUN THE D A M N ball. That's what was working, right? DJ is a hard runner, although somewhat slow and lumbering. Cade provides a different dynamic with his speed and moves. Just saying it was worth a try.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 8:58 PM
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I think all your facts you stated just answered your question….yes DJ’s butt should have been planted on the end of the bench because he deserved it…… just based on your facts here….no doubt about it!
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 9:00 PM
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Yes. I can see where you are finding a difficult time to put in Cade in the game beginning with 10:54 remaining in the game.
But remember it was 14 to zip. So, that means we got outscored 31 to 16 from near the end of the first quarter till 10:54 remaining in the game. That's a little over 2 quarters. Since the replacement of DJ didn't happen after the 4th quarter interception which would have been the opportune time, the only other time would have been sometime during that stretch where we got outscored 31 to 16 with DJ at the helm.
And remember 9 of Clemson's 30 points were scored by the defense. So, DJ was outscored by Rattler 31 points to 22 points in reality. My best guess to bench DJ would have been when he had that stretch where he had 8 incomplete passes in a row. There's no sports media personality or Clemson football fan or otherwise that would have given Dabo a hard time for benching DJ anytime midway through the third quarter. So, there would have been no controversy like when Bryant got benched for Lawrence. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see that DJ is not top tier power 5 QB. Anyone except Dabo that is.
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Trainer [34]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 9:03 PM
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I would have replaced DJ in the third quarter when we were ahead and it was obvious we could run the ball at will - especially on the edge. We were so much faster on the edge and Cade is such a huge threat comparatively that it was an obvious move at that point. I agree with you though, once you've ridden your QB into the 10 minute left mark, you are stuck finishing the game with him. But if the obvious switch was made when we were ahead, we knew we could run the ball at will, and the offense was a disaster otherwise ... Would have probably been a 10 point win.
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Standout [342]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 27, 2022, 9:16 PM
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Cade should have been put in second series of third quarter. No defense fears DJ passing and DJ isn't accurate. Stop being stupid and play Cade.
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Orange Blooded [3568]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 28, 2022, 1:53 AM
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Once DJ took the hit to the hip he should have been replaced, he couldnt do the only thing he was doing well anymore.....run the ball effectively. They could have won that game the same way they did against Cuse, pounding the rock.
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Legend [18851]
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Re: Should DJ have been replaced?..
Nov 28, 2022, 8:05 AM
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He literally had almost 25% completion rate and 50 yards passing without the one play to Collins. I would have taken Helms at QB at that point. When DJ is bad, he is really bad. When he is on, he is an average QB.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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No . . . that's predicated on a false assumption . . .
Nov 28, 2022, 9:32 AM
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. . . "try to ride the horse that brought you," isn't an accurate assessment of things. This reduces to the simplistic assumption that b/c DJ was the QB while we were ahead, that he, ergo, "brought us" t that point. Obviously that's not the case though. A QB isn't somehow mystically "responsible" for the entirety of the score and game situation just b/c he's been in during that time. He's responsible for what HE did, not simply everything that went on. The D spotted us 9 points. We were ahead, and DJ contributed to some of that, but he wasn't **simply** to credit.
Besides, the trajectory of the offensive lack of production was clear, and DJ continued to whiff down the stretch. There was every reason to replace him and none not too.
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