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Legend [15748]
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On Zion Williamson’s decision
Jan 26, 2018, 1:40 PM
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I know we’ve moved past this but I was thinking about it and wanted to add a couple thoughts...
First, good for him. He will do fine at Duke and in the NBA. No decision for him, in my opinion, would have worked out poorly.
But the comments he made...I’m not sure I’d agree with.
He said two things that I’d argue against:
I) that there is some sort of Duke Brotherhood that he will benefit from. This appears to be nothing more than marketing. All schools could argue that they have this.
2) That going to Duke will help him create a brand for the next 20 years.
This is marvelous recruiting by K. What a great job of understanding the mindset of the one and done athlete. But is there any reason to think it’s true? Think of all the amazing players that have come though Duke. And yet a google search of the top paid NBA players shows that there isn’t a single one in the top 25. There’s only one in the top ten that I can see for biggest endorsement compensation.
These are some of the greatest players to come through college, playing for one of the most famous coaches in one of the most famous programs. Where is this brand creation that coach K is touting?
Someone earlier in the week posted a tweet from someone pointing out how many more followers Duke has on Twitter than Clemson basketball. But based on the endorsement numbers it does not appear like any of them care about the NBA.
And if he is already thinking about brand creation, how much brand are you really creating by being the third of three top three players going to the same program at the same time? Sharing time with all those other blue chippers? Wouldn’t a more interesting brand be “the kid who stayed in state and took it to the blood bloods”? Maybe even “the guy who broke the streak in Chapel Hill”? If he is concerned about Brandy, this decision just feels like being branded as “the guy who plays it safe”.
Like I said, I bear him no ill will. Duke is obviously a great basketball program, and coach K is a great coach. He’ll do fine. I just question some of the rationale for the decision.
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Oculus Spirit [96831]
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Pigs of Brandy?***
Jan 26, 2018, 1:41 PM
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110%er [6692]
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My main issue with it, and with Coach K using it,
Jan 26, 2018, 1:49 PM
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is that Zion already has a brand that he has built himself. Spartanburg Day didn't build the brand, he did. Coach K is not going to be able to add a remarkable difference in his brand in less than one year.
I mean, Drake wore a replica of his high school jersey in an Instagram post and he is a huge Kentucky fan. So why not go to Kentucky where Cal can help "build your brand" and you get a rapper to help out with your brand as well?
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Legend [15748]
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Yeah, like I said, I think this was masterful
Jan 26, 2018, 2:27 PM
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recruiting by K. He knew what Zion was looking for and he fed it to him. And maybe K even means it and will be able to deliver, but when you consider what a storied program Duke is, and compare it to the money it’s players get in the NBA, I have to wonder what branding Coach K thinks he can do for a one and done kid.
Like you said, Zion is building his own brand. My completely biased opinion is that he would have benefitted more from being *the* man at his instate school. If you are savvy enough to be thinking of brand building at this stage, what does it say about your personal brand when you go to a school for one year based on a promise by the coach to build your brand moving forward? Does that resonate with NBA fans? Wouldn’t showing the “courage” to be “the man” at Clemson resonate more? Wouldn’t putting the local team on your back resonate more? Going up against the blue bloods? Taking down the Tar Heels in Chapel Hill? How about potentially attaching THAT to your brand? But instead, he’s #2, sharing the ball with #1 and #3...playing it safe.
Again...he’ll be fine. Just seems to me like he liked what Coach K said but didn’t think through the whole “branding” thing.
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CU Medallion [50704]
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Clemson doesn't play in Chapel Hill next year
Jan 27, 2018, 10:37 AM
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do they? So if he is one-and-done and came to Clemson ....
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Orange Blooded [2644]
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Re: On Zion Williamson’s decision
Jan 26, 2018, 2:23 PM
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Who?
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110%er [8273]
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He's going there for the Divinity school
Jan 26, 2018, 2:25 PM
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Zion. helloooooo
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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We don't have a Divinity school?
Jan 26, 2018, 2:30 PM
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Does Dabo know that?
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Oculus Spirit [96831]
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Well yeah, it's called
Jan 26, 2018, 2:48 PM
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New Spring
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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I thought so.***
Jan 26, 2018, 3:05 PM
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110%er [6280]
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Re: On Zion Williamson’s decision
Jan 26, 2018, 2:46 PM
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If he does well at Duke he will be talked about way more than if he did well at Clemson. He doesn't need help with his brand that is for sure tho. He just wants to join the other 2 best players in this class and go win a natty. I do not blame him. Duke brand is way way larger than Clemson in basketball tho. I don't think being good in the NBA has anything to do with where you went to college for one year.
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Legend [15748]
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“If he does well at duke he’ll be talked about more...”
Jan 26, 2018, 3:23 PM
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Not over the next 20 years.
Arguably not even next year. He could be the star at Clemson. He’ll arguably be “one of the amazing 2018 class” on Duke’s roster.
Keep in mind that they don’t just have the top three recruits and the #8 recruit all calling for the ball...and I don’t know how many of the four 5-Star freshman they currently have on the roster return, but I assume they’ll want the ball occasionally too. And of course, then there’s the rare kid who actually sticks around and develops...you know, the lowly upperclassman four star.
Bottom line is that I don’t see his reasoning aligning with his decision. But I certainly wish him well.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: “If he does well at duke he’ll be talked about more...”
Jan 26, 2018, 3:50 PM
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Yes over the next 20 years. Duke will always get talked about more than Clemson in basketball. He did not take the easy route that is for sure. Maybe he is tired of being the only person on his team.
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Legend [15748]
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Veeeeery good. Agree to disagree.
Jan 26, 2018, 4:00 PM
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The numbers don’t support your argument. Duke players don’t get any lift that I can discern from being Duke players. And I’m not sure what route would be easier than surrounding yourself with blue chippers for the one year you play college ball, unless you think he is going to Duke expecting to be featured over everyone else. I don’t think that’s the case, and like I said, even if it was, I’m focusing on the reason he specifically provided.
Anyway, we can revisit in 20 years. We’ll see if his one year at Duke is the difference.
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All-TigerNet [10632]
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Re: Veeeeery good. Agree to disagree.
Jan 27, 2018, 9:23 AM
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Swarley ----- you are right on the money. I'm not disappointed that he didn't come to Clemson because I think it may have been more disruptive than beneficial to the team. But as far a publicity, building a brand, and being the focus, he would have had a lot more impact at Clemson ..... or Wofford ..... or practically anywhere other than Duke. He really took the easy route, but I hope it works out well as he seems like a very nice young man.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Veeeeery good. Agree to disagree.
Jan 27, 2018, 10:40 AM
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How is Duke the easy route?
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Legend [15748]
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Oh and your comment about Duke being talked
Jan 26, 2018, 4:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: “If he does well at duke he’ll be talked about more...” ] |
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about more than Clemson is in my opinion supportive of my argument. No one is saying Duke’s brand isn’t bigger than Clemson’s in basketball. That is, again, not what Zion said. He said they would invest in HIS brand.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Oh and your comment about Duke being talked
Jan 26, 2018, 6:08 PM
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Well I believe his reason is because Duke and coach K are the best choice for basketball and he will be along side other great players. I don't think any school could make his brand bigger than it already is. Regardless I do believe he made the best decision for himself. That said if players from this year come back he may not even start lol. Tho most say he could play on the NBA today.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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He will be another player on a team of HS All-Americans
Jan 26, 2018, 8:26 PM
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instead of THE player on the Clemson team. Build his brand? Can someone list some of the brands over the last 5 years at Duke?
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110%er [6280]
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Re: He will be another player on a team of HS All-Americans
Jan 27, 2018, 10:08 AM
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Can you list some brands over the last 5 years from any college?
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CU Guru [1806]
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Duke has recent history with successful one-and-dones
Jan 26, 2018, 2:55 PM
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in the NBA. Kyrie Irving the most notable. I see Zion feeling like following in their footsteps would have been a good move for him.
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Legend [15748]
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Thats fine. But that’s not what he said. And the logic of
Jan 26, 2018, 3:09 PM
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the reasoning that HE said is what I am attempting to explore.
If he had said “I chose Duke because I intend to go to the NBA after one year and Duke has shown that they have a good prices in place for me to do that.” Then fine. I would argue that they are able to do one and done because kids who can go pro after one season go there, but at least he’d be right that they have a bit of a track record.
He said that Coach K said they could develop his brand not just for one year but for the next 20. I question that logic of this. Duke has had the best platform with the most famous coach and gets nothing but four and five star players, yet there’s not a single player in the NBA from Duke that makes top 25 money. I would argue that Coach K can do NOTHING for Zion’s brand unless they win the national championship, and that’s not guaranteed with superstar freshman. Zion is in more control of his brand, and I would (again, admittedly biased) argue that his brand is more compelling if he goes to the local school that isn’t a blue blood to stay in state, go where family went, go up against the blue bloods and have good success.
Just one man’s opinion.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: Thats fine. But that’s not what he said. And the logic of
Jan 26, 2018, 6:45 PM
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I do not completely disagree with you. I do think most Clemson fans already know of him and will(I know I will) pull for him in the NBA while there are many more Duke basketball fans around the nation and world that will pull for him because he went to Duke. That could expand his brand maybe. I also think coach K can teach him things that BB cannot. Coach K has coached the greatest athletes in the world in the Olympics and at Duke so he knows much more about a basketball players brand and how to improve themselves as basketball players and in the basketball world.
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CU Guru [1950]
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To me, it seems like he made the least logical choice.
Jan 26, 2018, 3:14 PM
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Duke has two other 6'7, 5-star prospects coming in next year who are just as good as he is. There's a > 0% chance that Zion ends up being a backup for Duke next season.
Don't get me wrong, he'll still get a chance to play, but if his goal is to showcase his talents next year and go as high as possible in the 2019 draft, why wouldn't he go to any other school in the country. 30 minutes per game isn't guaranteed at Duke like it would be anywhere else.
If he wanted to follow in other one-and-doners footsteps, Kentucky would have made tons of sense.
If he just wanted more exposure, UNC would have made tons of sense.
If he wanted tons of playing time and to be the leader of a team, either Clemson or South Carolina would have made tons of sense.
How does Duke make sense? They have Coach K, and they have great academics. The academics don't matter though because he'll be gone after 1 year. They also have a very polarizing brand, and a history of their school's draft picks underwhelming in the pros.
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Orange Blooded [2845]
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Re: To me, it seems like he made the least logical choice.
Jan 26, 2018, 6:37 PM
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It’s been awhile since a Duke player transcended Coach K and the Duke brand. Coach K is their brand. Grant Hill and Christian Laetner (maybe Bobby Hurly to a lesser extent) got out from under Coach K’s shadow because they stayed for 3 or 4 yrs and developed themselves as a player with the ACC and NCAA tournament exposure. Zion will be just another in a long line of Duke players that will only develop popularity if they succeed after their 9 months on the Duke roster.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: To me, it seems like he made the least logical choice.
Jan 26, 2018, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to To me, it seems like he made the least logical choice. ] |
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I think he is tired of being the man so much. He wants to play on a team and no disrespect to our guys but the talent around him will be greater at Duke.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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ncaa needs to make rules like baseball,go pro
Jan 26, 2018, 8:33 PM
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out of high school are stay 3
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CU Guru [1241]
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Re: ncaa needs to make rules like baseball,go pro
Jan 26, 2018, 8:46 PM
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several loopholes to that baseball "rule". would be interesting to see if basketball would close them if went that way. baseball kids can go juco and be drafted after their Fr and soph years. A kid can be drafted if he is 21 before the draft. that takes in mainly kids who RS, but a few others make it for various reasons. and a few kids have played a year at at a D1 school.. trans to a juco.. and then be drafted.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: ncaa needs to make rules like baseball,go pro
Jan 27, 2018, 10:10 AM
[ in reply to ncaa needs to make rules like baseball,go pro ] |
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Agreed. While some teams have won with one and dones it is pointless as a player and a coach. A year is just getting started learning each other, the school, how the coach wants you to play, and many other things. It is a waste of time.
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CU Guru [1485]
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Re: On Zion Williamson’s decision
Jan 27, 2018, 10:59 AM
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Let's see how much ZW believes in the "Dook brotherhood" after Coack K rains f -bombs on him during every practice.
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