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Replies: 40
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Just so everyone is clear on SOS
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:16 PM
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I see the negative folks railing on our top 10 in wins during the slide from the elite, saying, “but the ACC blah blah blah”.
Truth is, our SOS isn’t too bad. Our top 10 in wins since 2021 in addition to one of two teams with 9+ wins over the last 14 years is fully justified.
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other?date=2021-01-12
SOS -
2024: 18th
2023: 21st
2022: 21st
2021: 11th
Avg = 17.75
Some guys just try too hard, trying to find fault, but the facts are clear. No, we haven’t been elite but we’re among the top 10 in the country all things considered.
Now let’s fix the defense and get back on the mountaintop.
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110%er [3749]
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why did we give up from being elite?...
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:21 PM
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there was no reason to stop, yet here we are.
Hopefully Dabo has learned from all the mistakes he made the last 5 years. If so I think they can be elite again.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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It hasnt been 5 years, and we were an elite QB away from
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:24 PM
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being elite the 3 seasons prior to this one, and a defense away from a bye on season 4.
Nobody has “given up”. The offense is there, just need vast improvement on defense. IMO there are changes coming.
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110%er [3749]
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you can't admit that Dabo made poor decisions over the last 5 years
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:32 PM
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that have been detrimental to keeping Clemson football where is was. That's ok.
1) hiring several unqualified coaches and friends in positions that they would not have been in otherwise.
2) Not using the NIL in recruiting HS. Now we find out a month ago, we are going to do a 180 and finally compete with the rest of the country.
3) Not using the portal when it should have been used, b/c we didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings on the team and create conflict.
The top 2 being the most destructive to the program.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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All coaches hire and fire assistants. Dabo is not immune.
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:45 PM
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But
A) Roster is fine. Need to shore up the defensive coaching. Offense returns everyone and Davidson may have the impact of ETN in addition to the returning guys.
B) if by “portal” you’re talking about replacing DJ then okay. Obviously DJ was far from elite, and an elite QB makes the ENTIRE offense better. Cade was developing in 2023, but the defense was 8th.
I don’t agree with your glass half full approach and I maintain the facts back me up.
Fix the defense. That’s where we’re at. Not NEARLY as far off as your imagining.
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110%er [3749]
TigerPulse: 64%
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I'm assuming you are in politics for a living?...
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:54 PM
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listen, I get your spin, and I appreciate it... you and Francis Marion...
I agree, if changes are made in line with my first 2 issues, then there is no doubt that Dabo and Clemson can get back to being elite.
Dabo got fat, happy, and complacent after winning #2 and that mostly lead to where we are now.
It can be fixed. But for those of us that were pointing these things out years ago and were criticized by people like yourself...
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Another swing and a miss..
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:08 PM
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Obviously you’re either not reading my replies or you’re conveniently ignoring them to fit your distorted sense of reality.
Top 10 isn’t good enough for a crowd used to being on top, but things are not NEARLY as bad as you’re convincing yourself. It makes no sense how hard you’re trying, but then again, you refuse to listen to reason and facts.
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Dynasty Maker [3156]
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If youre cool with losing to each SEC we played this year
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:34 PM
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And nobody Louisville at our house, then yes, everything is still peachy rainbows. I won’t even mention losing to the coots the last 2/3 years.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Nobody is *cool* with that. Not at all.
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:55 PM
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The grown folks in the room understand every game we lost this year was due to a defense that has dudes, but they must play with better technique and especially intensity. Not sure where you’re getting your take, but no one is “cool” as you say.
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Top TigerNet [28430]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: All coaches hire and fire assistants. Dabo is not immune.
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:50 PM
[ in reply to All coaches hire and fire assistants. Dabo is not immune. ] |
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I still think we have depth issues in the trenches, at linebacker and the secondary. When the starters got tired is when we got exposed the most. Losing all of those commits was painful. We have talent across the board but I feel like we are still going to suffer from some depth issues.
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Campus Hero [13396]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: All coaches hire and fire assistants. Dabo is not immune.
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Dec 25, 2024, 9:53 PM
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I th8nk the secondary issues if 2024 won’t be as bad as they were in 2024, despite that our new recruiting class (as it currently stands) has only 1 DB in it.
We brought aboard several DBs in each of the 2023 and 2024 classes.
CBs: Aveion Terrell, Ashton Hampton, Shelton Lewis (all three currently CBs of proven significance, although Lewis is the only one among backups from this field-tested bunch). Corian Gipson and Tavon Feagin are well regarded CB prospects that were RS’s this year). We also have Jaydean Lukas at CB, although I wonder if he’ll stick around for 2025 (I hope so). That all equates to both starter quality + depth at CB position for 2025 season.
Safeties: This is the position in the secondary that concerns me the most, despite plentiful numbers of scholarship + two high skill walk-ons (T.Venables & Patrick Nix). Kylon Griffin is, IMO, a quality backup safety; he’s not a starter grade guy on a high end defense. Nevertheless, T.Venables, P.Nix, and K.Griffin represent quality backup safeties, although Griffin might end up as first team unless one or more of the following RS’es or limited action true FR safeties from this year show that they are ready and able to step up. Rob Billings, Ricardo Jones, and Ronan Hanifin are big safeties, Jones and Hanifin got a few snaps this year; both are fast. Kylon Webb (I think I got his name, and another guy (whose name I forget) represent scholarship safety candidates; who knows? At the worst, they’ll be competing and may turn out to be good. Finally, Joe Wilkinson (I know, he’s a low rated recruit from 2024 class) and the sole safety recruit in 2025 class (I also forget his name) are also competing. This is a big number of guys who we could afford to keep in the bench because R.J. Mickens stayed around and had a terrific final year. Sure, we must get a starter established (ideally two new starters), but the raw materials and numbers are in place.
Nickel: Khalil Barnes is established here. I wish Barnes were faster, but he has superior play-recognition skills and gets that half step advantage to atone for mediocre speed because of his fast recognition of what the offense is trying to do.
LB: Woodaz and Sammy Brown are both sure starters. Kobe McCloud (remember he had season ending injury early in the year) was already getting snaps as 2nd team LB despite his short stature and modest bulk (~220 lb). But McCloud, like his older brother Ray Ray, is fast (for a LB … he’s of course not as fast as Ray Ray). He might be a worthy starter in 3 LB alignments in 2025. After that, LB depth is a big concern. We really need for Baby Woodaz to be something reasonably close to Big Brother Woodaz if we are to have a vestige of quality depth. The incoming Fr LB from AL (Fyffe) tore his ACL in November. I can’t imagine that he’ll be able to play meaningful snaps in 2025.
LB is where we really need a high end portal transfer.
DT is good as long as Tre Williams takes advantage of his 6th year of eligibility.
DE is good even though we only got one true starter quality guy (Heldt) tore his ACL accompany our other existing true quality DE starter (Parker). I believe that both Lawson and Hoeffler will improve to the point where they’ll be good second stringers next year. RS Fr D.Mayo and incoming true FR Watford? Who knows? At the least, both were highly regarded as HS players. Maybe Denhoff will improve some more, although we’re in trouble if he doesn’t improve some more and we still need him to play a lot.
OK, enjoy what’s left of Christmas!
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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110%er [3749]
TigerPulse: 64%
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Mickey Conn
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:59 PM
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and I can go back and look for others...
and Goodwin not hired as a position coach... but the D COORDINATOR OF THE ENTIRE TEAM. With no qualified experience.
For a program that WAS in the top 5, that is inexcusable.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Swing and a miss buddy.
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:05 PM
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Conn has been around for a long time and there’s nothing wrong with that position over the years.
Goodwin was a gamble, but yet again, head coaches fire guys they hired every single season.
Yet again, roster is fine. Offense could/should be elite. Fix the defense or return to 8th, and we’re elite again.
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110%er [3749]
TigerPulse: 64%
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Conn has been around a "long time"...
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:11 PM
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and therefore justifies the position. Ok... Clay, or Will, or Chris
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Are you okay man?
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:15 PM
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The secondary has been consistent and has produced NFL guys since Conn has been in charge. The secondary hasn’t cost us losses this year or any other year during our stretch of TOP 10.
Again, you’re just trying too hard bud. Creepy really.
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Dynasty Maker [3156]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Dude we are flagged for DPI every time were defending a pass
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:36 PM
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in the secondary. It’s embarrassing
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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LOL!!
Dec 25, 2024, 10:56 PM
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You’re lost buddy. Just lost.
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110%er [3749]
TigerPulse: 64%
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Im sorry you have trouble with facts and reason
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:22 PM
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That’s too bad. Strange really.
BTW, Mickey Conn… read it.
https://clemsontigers.com/coaches/mickey-conn/
Like I said, swing and a miss. Indicative of your entire approach in this thread.
Take care. Go Tigers!
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Game Changer [1658]
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Re: you can't admit that Dabo made poor decisions over the last 5 years
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Dec 25, 2024, 9:50 PM
[ in reply to you can't admit that Dabo made poor decisions over the last 5 years ] |
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To Dabo's credit he made Jeff Scott and Tony Elliot co offensive coordinators. That worked out pretty well. Neither had been an OC before that time. He tried the same thing again it just didn't work out as well. Especially on defense. Some people have short memories. Going after Riley showed he was able to adjust and went out of our program. I expect we will see something similar on defense now. He gave Goodwin a shot, nothing wrong with that. It unfortunately just hasn't worked out. But he isn't actively trying to not be elite. That's just silly talk.
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Ultimate Tiger [38709]
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Re: why did we give up from being elite?...
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:52 PM
[ in reply to why did we give up from being elite?... ] |
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Man, I guess some of you mortals have never made a mistake. Good on you, mate. Cut Dabo a little slack.
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Orange Immortal [64690]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: why did we give up from being elite?...
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:25 PM
[ in reply to why did we give up from being elite?... ] |
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I don't think there was ever any intention to stop being elite. We fell from the elite status bc Dabo thought that he could grow our replacement staff within from an analyst position and that was his first biggest mistake as our HC IMO.
IMO it would be really hard to do that even with coaches that previously had coaching experience that got out of coaching for whatever reason but come to work with Dabo as an analyst bc the game changes so much and so quick that if a coach that had experience but hasn't been involved with on the field coaching for a while, even they would have a hard time getting back into on the field coaching but that isn't what happened.
Dabo took friends or friends of friends that had no actual on the field coaching experience and put them in an analyst position with a promise that when an opening was available he would bring them down on the field as a position coach, and that's what he done with a couple of them with the exception of Goodwin. Goodwin had previously had an assistant coach job with an NFL team where he didn't coach on the field, he was an analyst for an NFL HC until Dabo brought him in as an analyst and when our DC job come open, and Dabo knew that Goodwin was well equipped with defensive smarts and he thought that would be enough for Goodwin to get his wet with on the field coaching that has failed Goodwin and mainly bc he hasn't has a shred of on the field coaching anywhere and that part of the DC job has been more for even a person with Goodwin's Inteligent's/smarts than he has been able to work through. It's a fact that as soon as Goodwin started losing a lot of the elite talent that was left behind by BV, Goodwin could no longer learn as he goes from BV's players, and that's when the lack of on the field coaching and the scheming that DC's are responsible for has become a lot more than Goodwin ever imagined it could be and we have seen steady decline every season since he become our DC.
It won't get any better or easier for Goodwin until he has had the chance to get the on the field experience needed by starting at a lower level school and start learning about on the field coaching. I'm sure somewhere in all of this Dabo thought that he could help him along but we all know that Dabo is best fitted as a CEO more so than he is at coaching even though he do have some on the field coaching experience, and don't think for a second that Terry Don Phillips didn't know what Dabo would be more suitable for bc he did know, and that's the reason he made Dabo the HC over our Clemson Tigers, and he done great with good coaches that already had lots of coaching experience up until he was in a position where he needed to replace several really good coaches at once, and that's when and where the chit hit the fan and scattered that stink all over the defensive side of the ball.
Don't think for a second that Dabo hasn't learned from his mistake, he has and that's the reason he has let couple of coaches go and brought more in a little at a time. IMO, if it had of been me in that same situation, I think it would have been easier to cover his mistake by firing them all and just hire a new staff. The fans would've been more forgiving I think if that is what he had done...
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Heisman Winner [87656]
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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lol yeah a remember ESecPN pimping Bama as the best team ever that
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Dec 25, 2024, 7:32 PM
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year.
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Valley Legend [12782]
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we are 9-13 vs p4/p5teams that finish w/ 8 or more wins on the season since 2021
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:23 PM
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Worst part is......
we are 1-7 vs OOC P4/P5 teams w/ 8 or more wins
that is pathetic against teams with "a pulse" if you're trying to be "ELITE"
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Legend [6887]
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Re: we are 9-13 vs p4/p5teams that finish w/ 8 or more wins on the season since 2021
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:37 PM
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There is no way to debate these pumpers, they will spin every fact you show them, absolutely worse than liberals. They are rah-rah fans. Cultist vs. elitist ....
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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There is no debate. He has some solid facts and so do I.
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:40 PM
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He’s counting losses and I’m counting overall records one of these things is bigger than the other.
Feel free to debate the facts.
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Valley Legend [12782]
TigerPulse: 89%
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overall records don't mean much when you're playing sisters of the poor.......
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:50 PM
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therefore I pulled the record against teams that somewhat have a PULSE...........8+ win teams. Those are FACTS and how we've "fared" in 2021-2024...................and NO we weren't a "QB away" from a Natty in the 2021-2023 years.....our WRs and overall skill players on offense WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! We've seen what an ELITE Clemson team looks like and those teams weren't even CLOSE.
We've been insulated HEAVILY by our conference over the course of our downfall, hence the ATROCIOIUS record vs P4/5 OOC teams w/ a pulse.
we went 0-3 vs OOC P4/5 teams in 2022 AND 2024.
that being said. There seems to be a glimmer of hope if Dabo can replicate this portal thing he's got going w/ the 2 pickups recently and grab a few more in some BIGTIME NEED AREAS b/c it's not like his recruiting numbers are what they used to be either. It's a new world and Dabo has slowplayed making changes for so long that he FINALLY seems to be catching on.
KEEP the offensive skill we got (ie don't lose anybody)..........FIX the defense (ie players AND Coaches) then we could be on the path to rehabilitation to ELITE.
time will tell
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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The SOS was 17.75 since 2020.
Dec 25, 2024, 9:14 PM
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Sisters of the poor, not so much.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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Valley Legend [12782]
TigerPulse: 89%
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No we weren't......and the facts still remain that we are SUB .500......
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:21 PM
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vs P4/5 teams that finish w/ 8 or more wins from 2021-2024
and an astounding 1-7 OUT OF CONFERENCE playing those same caliber of teams.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Youre not making logical sense my man
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:47 PM
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We’re 6th or 7th in wins along with an SOS of 17.75. Thats in spite of and trumps the points you made. Put all the facts in the bucket and it remains 6th or 7th with an above average SOS. That defeats your sisters of the poor take. Not sure how and why you can’t understand this simple logic.
And yes, it is a clear fact that elite QBs improve the ENTIRE offense. We were an 8 for 27 day (or whatever it was) for DJ against the coots from making the 4 team playoffs, and the defense was the strength of the team during the DJ years. But no team could be elite with such mediocre QB play as DJ. Again, insert an elite QB like Trevor or Deshaun and it seems highly probable we’re elite those DJ years. And thing is, we could have had five Tee Higgins and it wouldn’t have changed DJs handicaps.
You are way over exaggerating things and missing simple logic. Yes, we need to be better against the best, but that’s exactly what being elite means. Everyone can agree we haven’t been elite, but being 6th or 7th with an SOS of 18th is far from the doom and gloom guys like you try to hard to portray.
Just the facts, yours included.
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Campus Hero [13396]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: overall records don't mean much when you're playing sisters of the poor.......
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:12 PM
[ in reply to overall records don't mean much when you're playing sisters of the poor....... ] |
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Our offense was poor in 2022 and 2023. Our defense was poor in 2024. It’s not as if our coaches planned it this way.
In 2025, our offense will be terrific. I believe that our defense, now that we have two top quality starter DEs and another year of development for Lawson and Hoeffler as second stringers, that our biggest problem of our defense (as far as personnel) will be fixed for the 2025 season. LB depth is a true concern, but Kobe McCloud’s recovery, if indeed he’s all the way back, will provide a high quality backup / OK starter (because he’s very fast). We need for Drew Woodaz to be ready as a credible backup LB from the start of the 2025 season.
D-back has plenty of bodies at both CB and Safety. We’ve got 2 established starters (very good players) at CB and a few young backup CBs with excellent credentials. Khalil Barnes is our nickel back. Safety our most experienced player is Kylon Griffin; we really need one from among our numerous safeties to step up and start so that Griffin can be a quality depth player. C.Nix and T.Venables are experienced depth. We really need one from among Rob Billings, Ricardo Jones, or Ronan Hannifin to step up and become a starter. From what I’ve seen of Hanifin since his early season change from WR to Safety, he looks fast and tackles well. Fingers crossed here.
Summary: I think our defense has the personnel to potentially be very good. Maybe even better than very good. Biggest worry is depth at LB and coaching on fundamentals such tackling, and gap assignment.
We do need a LB transfer from the portal. If we get just that one player to join us (he’s got to be good), then we’ll be set as far as personnel to have the quality D to complement our terrific Offense.
2025 has our best chance to return to 2019 season elite status since, well, 2019.
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Playmaker [389]
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Re: overall records don't mean much when you're playing sisters of the poor.......
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Dec 26, 2024, 12:15 PM
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Are you forgetting Jamal Anderson at LB
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Ring of Honor [22104]
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Re: Just so everyone is clear on SOS
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Dec 25, 2024, 8:47 PM
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Just win. Don’t lose to Loserville. Don’t lose to the coots. Don’t lose to Jawga. I’m ok with the Texas loss because we showed up. On offense anyway. Talking heads gonna talk. Just take care of business. Shut them up by beating the teams we aren’t supposed to (in their eyes!)
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TigerNet Elite [70787]
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Re: Just so everyone is clear on SOS
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Dec 25, 2024, 9:36 PM
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Gots to agree with Jedi. Just win baby!!!
. But at some point in the dead period, I'd love to have a chat with you and others on how the hail we lost to Tejas when Cade went off on em. It's why I was stoked when we got that draw. Was there for the taking. Oh well. Another day.
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Orange Elite [5572]
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0-3 against the SEC this year.***
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Dec 25, 2024, 10:54 PM
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Rival Killer [2873]
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Yes, our SOS was pumped up from the teams we
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Dec 25, 2024, 11:37 PM
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lost to. Looking at the teams we beat, it’s SMU and then a bunch of middling to bad teams.
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Dynasty Maker [3495]
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USuC and Louisville ?? Not so much.
Dec 26, 2024, 12:36 PM
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Everyone’s SOS and wins and losses is derived the same way. Were no different.
Plus, I looked at 4 years combined, where we’re 6th or 7th in wins. Again. Our numbers are derived no differently than anyone else.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [104989]
TigerPulse: 100%
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SOS is a construct spun from a popularity pagent.
Dec 26, 2024, 5:39 AM
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The SOS metric is influenced by preseason polls and that influence dominates future SOS again and again. SOS is self serving and self perpetuating.
Look who we elect for president and other offices to represent us. How the flock are we expected to manufacture a preseason poll which serves justice, fairness and trust?
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