Replies: 116
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Rock Defender [54]
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Let me sum up why I hate the Hokies.
Sep 26, 2011, 1:54 PM
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In 2007, when we were hosting the Hokies in Death Valley, as a sign of respect for the Va Tech shooting victims, our band played their alma mater. You could have heard a pin drop as everyone in the stadium was silent.
Immediately afterwards while our alma mater was being played, their entire visitor section erupted in a chorus of yells and boos.
Screw these redneck P's OS and I hope to God we run up the score.
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Enthusiast [121]
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I'm not sure why you call us rednecks...
Sep 26, 2011, 1:56 PM
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I'm the complete opposite of a redneck. Most VT people would think people in South Carolina are rednecks.
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Rock Defender [54]
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It's not geographic, it's behaviorial. Common mistake.
Sep 26, 2011, 1:57 PM
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There are rednecks in North Dakota.
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Enthusiast [121]
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touché***
Sep 26, 2011, 2:02 PM
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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That's because the rest of the nation is ignorant about the
Sep 26, 2011, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure why you call us rednecks... ] |
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deep south. Ironic, I know. You can thank Family Guy, the media for cherry picking interviewees and cliche southern jokes for your incorrect perception.
Also, please note that Clemson is a more highly thought-of academic institution than Virginia Tech. Not that Virginia Tech isn't a good school... it most certainly is, but when you think about Clemson people please don't forget our alums are coming from an elite institution.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: That's because the rest of the nation is ignorant about the
Sep 26, 2011, 4:49 PM
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That's a nice thought, but not entirely accurate. Depends on what program you're interested in and who you ask. Some CU programs are ranked higher, other VT programs are ranked higher. For example, VT engineering school is ranked higher (by most sources) than CU.
Both are good schools. Neither is "elite," despite what Barker would have you believe. > Also, please note that Clemson is a more highly > thought-of academic institution than Virginia Tech. > Not that Virginia Tech isn't a good school... it most > certainly is, but when you think about Clemson people > please don't forget our alums are coming from an > elite institution.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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The Federal government sees Clemson as an elite institution
Sep 26, 2011, 8:18 PM
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when it looks at education on resumes.
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Letterman [281]
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Re: The Federal government sees Clemson as an elite institution
Sep 27, 2011, 9:17 AM
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So when they want someone to suck the government ### they hire a CU kid? That's damning with faint praise.
>Re: The Federal government sees Clemson as an elite institution > when it looks at education on resumes.
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Hall of Famer [21652]
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Joined: 8/16/03
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Whatever man, working for the State Department or the
Sep 27, 2011, 5:20 PM
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Department of Defense would be a pretty cool job. If you would rather suck up to a corporate teet then go right ahead.
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Zealot [785]
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null [null]
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110%er [7980]
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would you say they are red neck and neck?***
Sep 27, 2011, 1:51 PM
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Enthusiast [103]
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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All-In [25140]
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Re: inbreds in izods...
Sep 26, 2011, 2:23 PM
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Dat's fuuuunny. +1
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CU Guru [1336]
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Athletic Dir [872]
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A perfect representation of the gentlemen and scholars...
Sep 26, 2011, 11:16 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure why you call us rednecks... ] |
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...I found during my last trip to Blacksburg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDo1_is8GaU
I know the old 'everybody has 'em' adage...it's just that this was the only type I came across during the course of my day/night at your fine institution. VT has some of the worst (by worst, I'm referring to mindlessly vulgar, sloppy, crass jagoffs) fans I've ever come across. If it weren't for Maryland, you people would be the scourge of the Mid-Atlantic.
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Scout Team [177]
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Re: I'm not sure why you call us rednecks...
Sep 27, 2011, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to I'm not sure why you call us rednecks... ] |
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You are an idiot if you'd think Clemson is in a more redneck area than VT. Blacksburg is in the middle of absolute nowhere with nothing around it. People starting fires in trashcans in the tailgating lots is a routine thing in Blacksburg. Clemson is a southern school but we aren't near the redneck school people claim us to be.
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Amateur [47]
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i think maybe you've got us confused with WVU
Sep 27, 2011, 11:46 AM
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i've been to nearly every home VT game for the last 10 years and i haven't seen people setting trash cans on fire even once. "routine"? how many VT games have you been to?
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Devotee [326]
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Re: i think maybe you've got us confused with WVU
Sep 27, 2011, 1:16 PM
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No, WVU fans are pure class compared to Tech fans.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: I'm not sure why you call us rednecks...
Sep 27, 2011, 5:36 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure why you call us rednecks... ] |
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see my post below!rednecks are poorly behaved people that should know better
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110%er [5915]
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Re: I'm not sure why you call us rednecks...
Sep 27, 2011, 5:58 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure why you call us rednecks... ] |
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The vast majority of VPI&SU people are not rednecks.
Good people, very similar to Clemson folks.
I think the problem is you are too close to WVU and Maryland.
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110%er [6224]
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CU Guru [1476]
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Get off our Board!
Sep 28, 2011, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to I'm not sure why you call us rednecks... ] |
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Why do we have Hokies on hear?
Are yall feeling your false confidence from your weak schedule already?
Man, we owe you a little something and its coming on Saturday.
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CU Medallion [73570]
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Here is why i hate the hokies
Sep 26, 2011, 1:56 PM
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living in Va, they went from fans you would never see in the streets to the most obnoxious fanbase around. I want this game more than any other this yr.
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Walk-On [110]
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Re: Here is why i hate the hokies
Sep 26, 2011, 2:07 PM
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My hatred of this man carries over to all other Hokie sports!!
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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They renamed the NIT the Seth Greenberg Invitational***
Sep 26, 2011, 2:13 PM
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Oculus Spirit [82106]
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You can hear him cuss out his players half way up the
Sep 26, 2011, 2:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here is why i hate the hokies ] |
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bleachers in LittleJohn. Not to mention he cries everytime they go to the NIT.
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Orange Blooded [3456]
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After the Babalola/Ford one-two punch in '05
Sep 27, 2011, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here is why i hate the hokies ] |
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The very first thing that doucheb says is he'd like to see if Olu's foot was behind the 3-point line. Yeah, by like, 2 feet. You lost. Shut up.
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CU Guru [1263]
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Zealot [785]
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Orange Blooded [4444]
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I couldn't agree more, and it is a point that I have brought
Sep 26, 2011, 1:59 PM
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up time and time again with these turkeys who have found their way onto our board over the last 2 weeks.
I hate them
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All-In [40977]
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The rednecks go to VT, the classy kids go to UVa***
Sep 26, 2011, 2:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [2837]
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Hipster ######### = Classy :)***
Sep 27, 2011, 11:53 AM
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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All-In [27366]
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Our 'Necks are better than your necks...
Sep 26, 2011, 2:16 PM
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WAY better.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Plus Clemson even let VT run down the hill!***
Sep 26, 2011, 2:22 PM
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All-In [26364]
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We were going to let them run down THE HILL!!!
Sep 26, 2011, 2:23 PM
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Commissioner [991]
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I had almost forgotten about that, that was the most
Sep 26, 2011, 5:01 PM
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disrespectful display of behavior I have witnessed at Clemson. I couldnt believe how rude they were just after a gracious display of sportsmanship shown to them.
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Varsity [207]
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Re: I had almost forgotten about that, that was the most
Sep 26, 2011, 5:36 PM
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I live in VA and I need to clarify something. The Hokies aren't that bad, it's those uppidy snobs at UVA that I can't stand. Most Hokies fans I have gotten to know are similar to most Clemson fans. Hey, we all have a little camo in our closets, ok? But God forbid you upset a UVA fan, they would probably try to slap a lawsuit on you or something. Or throw their bowtie at you.
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Rookie [13]
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*sigh*. I was there...and Hokie fans did not realize that
Sep 26, 2011, 10:46 PM
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alma mater playing is part of your pre-game. Our alma mater does not hold anywhere near the importance that I understand it does at other schools. We had no idea that's what was going on.
We were just cheering, getting juiced for the beginning of the game.
No disrespect intended whatsoever, we just didn't realize what was going on.
At Lane this Saturday, you will see OUR pre-game ritual...the 2 bands, the leading in of the Corp of Cadets, Hokies Respect announcement by a former player...on and on. I don't expect you to know what OUR ritual is...you can't expect visiting fans to know yours.
I've been to every ACC and Big East (blech) stadium for at least one VT away game. Most of the time we do our own thing right from the beginning. Don't fault us for being rowdy and enthusiastic - Lord knows the ACC needs MORE of that, not less.
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All-American [583]
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Re: *sigh*. I was there...and Hokie fans did not realize that
Sep 26, 2011, 10:56 PM
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I was there in my seat with my Hokie cousins. They all wondered what the heck the fans in the corner were doing and weren't really happy with their fanbase. That was truly disrespectful and unless you are blind, deaf, or absolutely hammered you would have known what was going on in the stadium.
All the following fan bases have gotten it, Auburn, UGA, A&M, Marshall, TCU, plus I am sure that i have missed a few. Only the turkeys couldn't quite understand what was going on at the time.
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CU Medallion [54254]
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So, a correction is required. Ignorant Rednecks from VT.....***
Sep 26, 2011, 11:26 PM
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Rookie [13]
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Legend [16071]
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Auburn, FSU, GT, UGA and SCAR fans have no issues...
Sep 27, 2011, 10:32 AM
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with filling the corners of Death Valley to the brim. Aren't you guys supposed to be good travelers?
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Rookie [13]
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Um. I was in YOUR partial season ticket package seats...
Sep 27, 2011, 6:23 PM
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not the visitor section. Our allotment was completely sold out months prior (duh). So many of us Hokie fans do what we do in Hooville - we buy up those silly "3 packs" your ticket office peddles, then dump the other 2 games.
I'm sure you sold out against AU and FSU, but face it...it's been YEARS you sold out a game that was not a heavy game with a large traveling rep fanbase.
And as far as the big conspiracy theory on our collective effort (4k+ fans mind you) to purposely disrupt your alma mater???? REALLY??? Now that I remember correctly, the VT ticket office did put a note in our visitor tickets: "Ok, here goes, MAKE SURE you all boo during pre-game..no..wait..even better, make it specifically their alma mater. They HATE that....
Delusional.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Um, as far as disrupting our alma mater, you absolutley did.
Sep 27, 2011, 6:27 PM
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I don't understand you're argument over whether or not it was on purpose?
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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I'm also curious
Sep 27, 2011, 6:39 PM
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to know if they were equally as disrespectful to other fans as they went through the season and other universities sought to convey their condolences and empathy for VaTech's tragic loss..........or were they just freakin' rude to Clemson???
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Rooter [215]
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You can only make excuses for yourself
Sep 27, 2011, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to Get over yourselves. I was in the very very empty upper ] |
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Even if you are in the upper deck where I usually sit, the PA announcement clearly states 'please stand for the Clemson University alma mater'.
I doubt the same will happen this week but I can't speak for what other Tiger fans will do at Lane.
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Orange Blooded [3456]
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I was sitting in the West Zone
Sep 27, 2011, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to Get over yourselves. I was in the very very empty upper ] |
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right above and next to the Hokie contingent. While I'll accept that YOU may not have known what was going on, the folks in those sections sure did. There was nothing to boo (Clemson players coming on to field, etc.) other than our pregame ceremony. They were attempting to disrupt it, plain and simple.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: I was sitting in the West Zone
Sep 27, 2011, 5:41 PM
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I'm really surprised by all this. I really enjoyed my trip to Clemson and thought you had a great fanbase.
That said, I had no idea about this whole alma mater thing. I can guarantee nobody was trying to disrupt your alma mater because I was there with 10 Hokies and none of us knew about this alma mater thing before now, and we were certainly not too drunk to know what was happening.
This really just comes down to our pregame ritual of getting loud and excited before games. Nobody would try to ruin your own ritual in your own house. But I can assure you, of the 10 people I was with, not a single one of us knew you guys were doing something special.
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Legend [16233]
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Orange Blooded [4486]
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All-In [32751]
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What was the point of your post - to further support the
Sep 26, 2011, 11:19 PM
[ in reply to *sigh*. I was there...and Hokie fans did not realize that ] |
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thought process that your fans are ignorant wipes ?
We pretty much do our own thing from the beginning - then why weren't you all rowdy and being your own cool selves while your alma mater was playing - especially since it doesn't mean that much to you ?
MAYBE, just MAYBE, if you paid attention to what was going on around you, you might learn something or see some other cool stuff other than the same group of rednecks bouncing around doing their own thing every away game.
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All-In [27366]
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Orange Blooded [4781]
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That's no excuse.
Sep 27, 2011, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to *sigh*. I was there...and Hokie fans did not realize that ] |
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Unless VT is actually Virginia Tech School For The Deaf, there's a huge booming voice that comes over the PA system during pre-game that says "Please remain standing for the Clemson alma mater." Every single game.
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Legend [16207]
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Enthusiast [103]
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Clembert, their mascot is a turkey...
Sep 27, 2011, 2:22 PM
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You'll confuse them with logic.
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Freshman [5]
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That's terrible behavior, if true.
Sep 27, 2011, 12:45 PM
[ in reply to *sigh*. I was there...and Hokie fans did not realize that ] |
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I wasn't there so I can't speak specifically to whether or not the VT fans in attendance knew that Clemson's alma mater was playing or if they were booing. What I can say is that if the VT fans in attendance booed during Clemson's alma mater imediately after the Clemson band finished playing the VT alma mater,then that behavior is really embarrassing. I'm sorry that happened. No wonder many on here have a negative perception of VT and its fans. I can say with 100% certainty that most of those who actually attend the game in Blacksburg will have a much different opinion when they leave.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Thanks.***
Sep 27, 2011, 1:16 PM
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Freshman [0]
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Re: That's terrible behavior, if true.
Sep 27, 2011, 5:43 PM
[ in reply to That's terrible behavior, if true. ] |
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I understand why Clemson fans are upset, but I would've noticed if everyone around me was booing. It's more likely we were just making noise to get pumped up than booing.
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110%er [7831]
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Freshman [5]
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Re: When we win, how many car windows will be broken?***
Sep 27, 2011, 11:15 PM
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Spoken like someone who hasn't won in Lane Stadium in a long time...
No, seriously. Your car will be fine. Let's not get melodramatic.
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Enthusiast [103]
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Orange Blooded [3121]
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Legend [16233]
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Devotee [313]
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I was in tigerband and on the field for this...
Sep 27, 2011, 3:16 AM
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And I lost all respect for VA Tech after this.
Heck, we are showing them respect and they want to act like coots.
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Enthusiast [103]
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Coots. Turkeys. Birds of a feather.***
Sep 27, 2011, 2:17 PM
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Rookie [11]
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VT fan here- we had no idea you were playing your alma mater
Sep 27, 2011, 10:24 AM
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I dont think I have ever heard our band play our alma mater. I wasnt even aware that we had one let alone realize your band played ours. And I certainly didnt know when your band was playing yours. Sorry for disrupting your tradition but it wasnt a sign of disrespect.
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Legend [16071]
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How do you not know your alma mater?....
Sep 27, 2011, 10:35 AM
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No disrespect intended but that just baffles me. What song does your school raise its banner to? What song do you rally around? What song signifies your schools identity if your alma mater isn't important? The Hokie Pokie?
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Legend [16207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13076
Joined: 11/30/98
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Dueling banjos***
Sep 27, 2011, 10:56 AM
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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Real funny considering that was filmed in Oconee County***
Sep 28, 2011, 12:43 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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No response just a thumbs down
Sep 28, 2011, 12:50 PM
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truth hurt??
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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You could always go somewhere else to spread your joy
Sep 28, 2011, 1:30 PM
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Troll...
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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Do you not see the irony of someone who is right there
Sep 28, 2011, 1:55 PM
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where something was filmed referencing it as an insult to someone else.
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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No, I just see your pathetic a$$ trying to stir more #### on
Sep 28, 2011, 2:20 PM
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a Clemson message board when you "really" pull for Ark/Woff/Citadel...
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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No...I see right through it...Pepper your flames with praise
Sep 28, 2011, 2:22 PM
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doesn't help...Your obsession with Clemson is sad...
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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your stalking is sad***
Sep 28, 2011, 2:37 PM
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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As sad as yours?***
Sep 28, 2011, 3:12 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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No, not quite***
Sep 28, 2011, 3:41 PM
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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At least you can admit THAT...It is a start...***
Sep 28, 2011, 5:06 PM
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CU Guru [1838]
TigerPulse: 59%
Posts: 6249
Joined: 12/17/06
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It is the first step***
Sep 28, 2011, 5:14 PM
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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The next will be finding another board to enlighten with
Sep 28, 2011, 5:34 PM
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your Devil's advocacy...I have already suggested several...
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Legend [16207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13076
Joined: 11/30/98
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110%er [7831]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20489
Joined: 10/9/04
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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I went to Rabun Gap in the late 80's. During my interview
Sep 28, 2011, 7:32 PM
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the Dean of Admissions told me "they filmed Deliverance not far from here", to which I replied "is that a Selling Point?".
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110%er [7831]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20489
Joined: 10/9/04
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I met the banjo boy in the late 80's
Sep 28, 2011, 8:30 PM
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I was playing in a country/rock band up in clayton. Even in his 30's it was no denying who he was.
Had a blast with those folks.....and btw....they hate that movie and the song dueling banjos. Play that song up there and risk being lynched.
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110%er [7831]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20489
Joined: 10/9/04
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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I don't think you know how he works...***
Sep 28, 2011, 7:33 PM
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Rookie [13]
TigerPulse: 20%
Posts: 8
Joined: 10/22/06
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Because, it isn't our tradition. Period. Where is your
Sep 27, 2011, 6:26 PM
[ in reply to How do you not know your alma mater?.... ] |
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Corp of Cadets and 2 marching bands? What? You don't have that? How can you identify CU then. Sheesh!
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Legend [16071]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 24601
Joined: 5/14/02
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Uh...That isn't at all the same....
Sep 28, 2011, 4:25 AM
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Every school has an alma mater and it IS the song that represents your university weather VT fans care about theirs or not (Check out a dictionary). The alma mater isn't our tradition. Its EVERY school's tradition. What you listed is unique to the school. You have 2 marching bands (congrats?). We have Howard's Rock and The Hill. Not the same.
Point is, we showed a great sign of respect to VT, its alumni, and its students by having a (very obvious) moment of silence and playing your school's (apparently incredibly unimportant) alma mater and we were not shown the same respect.
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All-TigerNet [11894]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7595
Joined: 8/25/05
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No offense, and I'm glad that it was unintended on your
Sep 27, 2011, 1:30 PM
[ in reply to VT fan here- we had no idea you were playing your alma mater ] |
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part, but it seems that logic would tell you that when most of the fans in the stadium are standing and singing to something being played by the band, and the Nat'l Anthem has already been played, chances are it's the alma mater.
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Orange Blooded [3121]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 5113
Joined: 9/2/05
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Oculus Spirit [82106]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47148
Joined: 3/18/07
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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maybe their inbreeding distracted them...***
Sep 27, 2011, 6:31 PM
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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All-In [34823]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41036
Joined: 2/6/01
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Who won the game?
Sep 27, 2011, 11:00 AM
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Can't recall the score.
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Hall of Famer [24295]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 16478
Joined: 8/6/02
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65-39-4***
Sep 27, 2011, 11:04 AM
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Legend [16233]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26521
Joined: 11/18/03
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Can you remember the score of our game that year? Bet
Sep 27, 2011, 6:34 PM
[ in reply to Who won the game? ] |
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you can remember losing...
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Standout [328]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 759
Joined: 10/14/06
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Why I hate the Hokies.
Sep 27, 2011, 11:32 AM
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Apparently I wasn't good enough to get into their school, which happened to be my #1 choice. I guess I should thank them for making me a Tiger though!
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All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
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When I was a wee laddie, VPI was a joke. We would schedule
Sep 27, 2011, 1:49 PM
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them for homecoming for a sure-bet win.
Then they did what Miami did (and USuCk has tried to do) and hired winning coaches and puppy-killing degenerate players to take them to "the next level."
Of course, all things must come to an end, as Miami's dominance did.
I say it's time to put an end to Hokie dominance in this conference just as we did to FSU's.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 14500
Joined: 1/2/11
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What do you expect from Yankee's?***
Sep 27, 2011, 3:39 PM
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110%er [5375]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4039
Joined: 9/26/00
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Virginia....the only state in which...
Sep 27, 2011, 4:04 PM
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...one can get a divorce and still be legally considered brother and sister.
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All-In [48234]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30642
Joined: 11/15/99
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FWIW
Sep 27, 2011, 4:16 PM
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You misspelled West Virginia.
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All-In [27366]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26233
Joined: 9/19/11
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I think maybe he's right. In WV, bros. and sisters typically
Sep 28, 2011, 12:44 PM
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aren't.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 10336
Joined: 7/1/97
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Re: Let me sum up why I hate the Hokies.
Sep 27, 2011, 5:34 PM
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very true, I still remember that. hokie fan in front of us(in 2,800.00 IPTAY seats stood and yelled "go hokies" during the alma mater! they truely are POS!! !
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Orange Blooded [3350]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 7782
Joined: 11/6/03
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I kind of understand
Sep 27, 2011, 7:10 PM
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2007 I was abused and didn't want to go to jail for defending my team. I can't get revenge but this team can. Stop the run and have some fun. Hit the pass and kick some ###.
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Addict [426]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 206
Joined: 10/31/06
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I just have one reason...
Sep 27, 2011, 8:47 PM
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They're not Clemson
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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Haven't we already seen this post
Sep 29, 2011, 10:32 AM
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somewhere else?
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110%er [7831]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20489
Joined: 10/9/04
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BanHammer was not applied properly***
Sep 29, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Amateur [30]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8
Joined: 8/29/99
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Was at that game as well in upper deck and this is first i
Sep 28, 2011, 5:18 PM
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have heard of this. Usually the travelling fanbase are the "true" college football fans so im surprised to hear of this.
Its too bad, most people from Va tech really like Clemson and the fact that its very similar to VT(ag, engineering, miltary tradtion)
Hopefully, we make this up to you in the form of some great hospitality for those making the trip!
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