Replies: 47
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CU Medallion [55790]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Ha Ha. That whack job chick cost NYC the Amazon HQ.
Feb 15, 2019, 7:52 AM
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The thing is, they are happy that Amazon isn't going there. They got their wish. I don't know the issue, but she and her crew celebrated the news.
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All-In [42203]
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Re: Ha Ha. That whack job chick cost NYC the Amazon HQ.
Feb 15, 2019, 8:03 AM
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It's definitely a head-scratcher. They don't want... more jobs?
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110%er [7013]
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When you run the numbers, these things usually do not
Feb 15, 2019, 8:09 AM
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pay off. All the tax right-offs and cash incentives take forever to recoupe. This competition Amazon initiated began a mighty race to the bottom. NYC and Arlington won.
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CU Medallion [60063]
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Re: When you run the numbers, these things usually do not
Feb 15, 2019, 8:10 AM
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an influx of 40,000 jobs is a big deal. if you do not think so, you are a 1%er and dont get it.
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Heisman Winner [138009]
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If everything else was equal, that's a no-brainer.
Feb 15, 2019, 8:56 AM
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There's a LOT more that goes into the equation, not the least of which is the tax breaks these megacorps demand for the favor of building their job-bringing business there.
"You're worth a trillion dollars," New York City Council Speaker Corey Johnson told the company. "Why do you need our $3 billion when we have crumbling subways, crumbling public housing, people without health care, public schools that are overcrowded?"
These decisions can't ever be boiled down to a single statistic or sentence, like "40,000 jobs, we must do it!"
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Lot o points [155984]
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One of her primary concerns expressed was not wanting home
Feb 15, 2019, 9:21 AM
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Values in Queens to spike due to the development and influx of high paying jobs.
Probably pizzzing in the wind around NYC, but I might be ok with her bringing a little of that anti-progress mindset to Clemson. AOC vs Tom Winkopp. I’d pay to watch that.
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All-In [33418]
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Lot o points [155984]
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Solyndra says “who needs city/state breaks?”***
Feb 15, 2019, 9:52 AM
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Heisman Winner [111733]
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ask Raytheon, Boeing, Northrup...***
Feb 15, 2019, 11:03 AM
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I mean that is where our priorities are when it comes to government picking winners...
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Lot o points [155984]
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In fairness, those three actually make a tangible product,
Feb 15, 2019, 11:05 AM
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versus unicorn dust and fairy tears.
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Heisman Winner [111733]
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Re: In fairness, those three actually make a tangible product,
Feb 15, 2019, 11:08 AM
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exactly. why should we invest our hard earned government R&D dollars into clean energy and infrastructure when we can just go blow sh>it up instead. We really are a remarkably stupid species.
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Lot o points [155984]
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why stop there? Why invest into clean energy R&D when
Feb 15, 2019, 11:21 AM
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we can invest billions in a hip-sounding ponzi scheme?
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Heisman Winner [111733]
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Re: why stop there? Why invest into clean energy R&D when
Feb 15, 2019, 11:24 AM
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if you had ever told me to remind you when you do that thing, this is one of those times.
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Lot o points [155984]
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"That thing"----reach the point in the discussion where
Feb 15, 2019, 11:52 AM
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you're out of replies?
Apologies, but it was gonna happen when the debate moderator gave you the "Defend Solyndra" assignment. Go in Christ, bruh.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: In fairness, those three actually make a tangible product,
Feb 21, 2019, 8:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: In fairness, those three actually make a tangible product, ] |
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Tigerbalm1®
Providing for a strong military is a constitutional duty. Providing more efficient energy sources is the duty of private industry, not the government.
Read the constitution you ####### idiot.
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Legend [15749]
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This is mind boggling. Does Corey Johnson realize that there is no $3 billion?
Feb 15, 2019, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to If everything else was equal, that's a no-brainer. ] |
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The $3 billion includes over a billion from the state and is tied to tax refunds based on hitting both employment and office space thresholds over the next ten years?
I agree that not all incentive deals are smart and “tax revenue” shouldn’t be the only consideration. But this was a steal for NYC, and she blew it for them. Unreal. If they re-elect her they are complete morons. This “win” for her will hurt NYC for years to come. What corporation is going to want to invest significantly in the area when they know they could be attacked by its leaders?
It’s not like Bezos is a hard right-winger.
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Lot o points [155984]
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That’s AOC’s new line too...positioning this as if she
Feb 15, 2019, 10:00 AM
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Saved the city $3B from this pullout. Ummm, no, not collecting $3B from someone when they are there is a net zero to not collecting $3B from someone because they AREN’T there.
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Legend [15749]
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I’m no expert but as I read it, there is no way to say she
Feb 15, 2019, 11:25 AM
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did not just cost NYC money. The vast majority of the incentive was tied to hitting enormous office space and employment goals that would have easily paid for the $3 billion in taxes of the 25,000 alone, not even counting the thousands of support jobs it would have created. Plus $1 billion at least (I think more like $1.5 billion) came from the state. Now, you might object to that too, but the state can take that money and invest it anywhere, and since NYC just puked all over the deal they made, I’m sure they will move that funding to some more appreciative part of the state, that won’t make them look bad.
Amazing. I thought AOC was a harmless moron, but in less than two months she has already done more damage to NYC than I thought any Congress Person could do in an entire career.
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Legend [15749]
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And I understand the concerns about real estate values.
Feb 15, 2019, 11:33 AM
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I think that warrants concern and monitoring. Not blowing up a huge deal for the city.
But as for concern for poorer people in the area, 4 million square feet of office space requires a lot of cleaning, maintenance, landscaping, etc. The restaurants and shops that would sprout up around this complex would need a lot of cooks, waiters and retail employees.
The stupidity of this woman overwhelms me. I cannot imagine being a serious public servant in that city and state and having months of great work undone by her mindless rhetoric.
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Lot o points [155984]
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Again, it's not about the cost of getting their business.
Feb 15, 2019, 11:42 AM
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Her primary concern was keeping the cost of housing in Queens affordable. Maybe an admirable goal on the surface, but this was a massively stupid and costly way of achieving the goal.
It's the typical Not in My Backyard mindset so common of politicians....these whacky green dreams she has have to be paid for by someone, with corporations like Amazon being a big part of it, but she'd rather them not come into Queens and impact the housing cost.
It really points out the extreme juxtaposition between what the social democrats want, and how they intend to get there.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Heisman Winner [138009]
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Legend [15749]
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Yes. Lulz. People don’t need jobs.
Feb 15, 2019, 10:06 AM
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NYC isn’t invincible. This was a big loss. We’ll see how it plays out.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: Lulz. Yes, the most economically thriving city
Feb 15, 2019, 6:59 PM
[ in reply to Lulz. Yes, the most economically thriving city ] |
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Have you taken a drive through the 5 boroughs lately? NYC is a shatt hole. 40,000 jobs in one metropolitan area plus all the other support and service positions is huge even for NYC. Occasional Cortex is a nightmare come true for Conservatives.
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110%er [7013]
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40k jobs in an area already recording very low
Feb 19, 2019, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: When you run the numbers, these things usually do not ] |
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unemployment. If you already live there, get ready for a major tax bump to pay for new infrastructure (schools, water, sewer, police, fire) because the new guys do not have to.
Booms usually lead to busts.
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All-In [48078]
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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...???***
Feb 15, 2019, 8:08 AM
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110%er [9101]
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Re: Ha Ha. That whack job chick cost NYC the Amazon HQ.
Feb 15, 2019, 8:08 AM
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How about those amzn employees who bought property before the announcement and now they are stuck with it
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Ha Ha. That whack job chick cost NYC the Amazon HQ.
Feb 15, 2019, 9:12 AM
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The deal should have angered conservatives too (and some did express concern, especially about the part where the state promised to use eminent domain).
I think the people upset over today's decision are mostly having a knee jerk reaction to seeing who has come out in support.
Clemson actually did an economic development study a few years back that showed it cost Alabama several hundred thousand dollars for each resident hired by Toyota. These aren't always good deals for taxpayers.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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LOL, please, please link to that study***
Feb 15, 2019, 9:24 AM
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: LOL, please, please link to that study***
Feb 15, 2019, 9:37 AM
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It was done by the Thurmond Institute back in the early part of this decade, back when Dr. Watt was still there, I believe.
Don't know where to link it from, but I guess you can call them if you care that much.
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Heisman Winner [111733]
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Re: LOL, please, please link to that study***
Feb 15, 2019, 11:07 AM
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this reminds me of Cobb county residents eagerly footing the bill for a new baseball stadium when the Atlanta Braces organization is worth 20 billion. I am sure all those new bus stops and seasonal service jobs were worth it though...
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Because auto manufacturing has the same economic impact
Feb 15, 2019, 11:15 AM
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as a baseball stadium does.
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Mind if I jump in?
Feb 15, 2019, 9:50 AM
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And the study done at Clemson focused on the original incentives given to build the plant in the first place, which was likely more. Also, one problem Alabama faced was how many of the new jobs were filled by people Toyota moved into the area, so they didn't go to Alabamans.
Then you have the fact that if Toyota hires someone from Company X to fill a job and Company X turns around and eliminates that position rather than hiring someone else, a new job was not created.
A lot goes into it and the taxpayers almost always get screwed.
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Legend [15749]
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But again, THIS deal looked like a major win
Feb 15, 2019, 10:04 AM
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from a financial perspective. I have no doubt that other cities threw more money at Amazon but Bezos wanted NYC.
$1.525 billion from the state IF they met the 25,000 job pledge and occupied 4 MILLION square feet of office space in the next TEN YEARS.
NYC gives $900 million in tax credits and $400 million in property tax credits OVER THE NEXT 25 YEARS.
25,000 employees making $150,000 per year is $3.75 billion a year in income being brought into NYC every year. PLUS all the other jobs that will spring up in support of those 25,000 new employees.
A complete F-up on the part of AOC and those who think like her. Terrible for NYC.
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Lot o points [155984]
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I don’t agree with any and all tax breaks,
Feb 15, 2019, 9:57 AM
[ in reply to Mind if I jump in? ] |
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But that’s quite a bit of cherry picking to position it that way. It’s not money given to the corporation, it’s money not collected from the corporation, in anticipation that gross receipts, monetary and otherwise, from the corporation’s presence will outweigh the money not collected.
I imagine Greenville feels they’ve gotten a pretty good ROI on breaks provided to BMW.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Do you really think it is that simple?
Feb 15, 2019, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to Mind if I jump in? ] |
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It worries me that some of you are so incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.
Do you realize how many niche industries just one of those facilities create to serve it? Hundreds, if not thousands of more jobs created in the surrounded area. And once those are in place, guess what happens? It makes it more appealing for more manufacturers to come in! Because the area already has a nice supply of stamping houses, automation machine builders, tooling suppliers, etc.
Mercedes, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota....All of those have major manufacturing facilities in Alabama. Do you think that's good or bad for the economy?
BMW's presence was a big reason South Carolina got the Volvo facility. And that Volvo facility is also bringing a ton of work to the Upstate. Business is booming, wages are up, labor is in high demand...Can you not connect these dots?
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Lot o points [155984]
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They’re ok and all
Feb 15, 2019, 10:06 AM
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If only they were unionized.
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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it's probably better for the people that live there
Feb 15, 2019, 9:37 AM
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the arrival of Amazon will jack up the cost of living
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CU Medallion [55790]
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Dude. It's NYC. It costs a fortune to breathe in that place.
Feb 15, 2019, 10:25 AM
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NYC ain't for poor people.
That's what New Jersey is for.
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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ok
Feb 15, 2019, 10:39 AM
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you're right
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CU Medallion [55790]
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Thank you. Understand this and life will be better for you.
Feb 15, 2019, 11:41 AM
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I'm right about Chris Robinson too.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Ha Ha. That whack job chick cost NYC the Amazon HQ.
Feb 15, 2019, 11:33 AM
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Have any of you guys stopped for a second and thought that the notion that a single member of Congress torpedoed a multi billion dollar development project sounds far fetched?
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Legend [15749]
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Fair point. I mean, I think everyone would acknowledge
Feb 15, 2019, 11:40 AM
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that several politicians were trying to create “for the little man” credentials by going toe-to-toe with Amazon, but AOC was the one with the biggest voice.
But you’re thinking something else blew up the deal and Amazon was using the push-back as an excuse? Possible, although I haven’t seen anyone suggest any trouble in paradise so far.
It’s a good thought but I don’t think it’s inconceivable for Amazon to cut bait if it sees the writing on the wall that its brand is about to become a non-stop punching bag for every social woe of NYC. And it’s not crazy to think that bringing 25,000 jobs to a town wasn’t going to get a huge backlash.
What do you think might be driving this besides what was said?
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CU Medallion [55790]
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It's just that she's cray cray enough to be vocal about it.
Feb 15, 2019, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ha Ha. That whack job chick cost NYC the Amazon HQ. ] |
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Of course it wasn't just her.
That's fine though. Funny how NYC loses (by some's reckoning) while Virginny, the home of acknowledged black-faced and alleged rapist Dems, benefits.
I guess being PC and Progressive doesn't always work out so well.
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CU Medallion [55790]
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And even some Liberals "get it":
Feb 15, 2019, 11:46 AM
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But New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo expressed disappointment and frustration over the failed deal on Thursday.
"Amazon chose to come to New York because we are the capital of the world and the best place to do business," he said in a statement. "However, a small group [of] politicians put their own narrow political interests above their community. ... They should be held accountable for this lost economic opportunity."
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Replies: 47
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