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Expert [1376]
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Sorry to offend the morons, but only moron would blame the
Dec 1, 2013, 9:50 AM
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coaches, whether it be playcalling or toughness, for this sequence of events:
- Clemson effectively and efficiently moves ball to the #### 34. Fumble
- Clemson defense holds. Punt fumbled at our 31-yard line.
- 3 plays complete w/ trick play by cockz. TD.
- Very next Clemson offensive play, INT.
- Three Clemson plays later, INT.
This game wasn't lost due playcalling or toughness, or superior athletes or better coaching on the other side. This sequence of 10 or so plays is the primary reason we lost.
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110%er [7831]
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The first offensive series we move the ball
Dec 1, 2013, 9:56 AM
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Coaches call cutesy trick play..... Interception..... It is as much coaching as anything else
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: The first offensive series we move the ball
Dec 1, 2013, 10:02 AM
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Right on, that was a stupid call at that time of the game especially when Tajh seemed to be on the money on the drive.
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Expert [1376]
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Please explain what made it "stupid" or "risky"?
Dec 1, 2013, 10:05 AM
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You can fumble or throw an interception just as easy or maybe even easier on a more "traditional" play.
The slow release and high arc are the only reason there were any #### defenders in the same ballpark.
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Team Captain [499]
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Re: Please explain what made it "stupid" or "risky"?
Dec 1, 2013, 11:01 AM
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Uhm... No. Sammy Watkins is 2-5 with one TD and one interception for his career. Did you see the way he threw the ball? It had way too much air under it, which allowed the safety to drift over and make the pick.
Clemson's offense is no joke. They proved they could score on South Carolina. They proved trick plays weren't needed. To me, this is on par with pulling Merriweather. It was a case of ignoring what was happening on the field and trying to outthink the defense.
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Expert [1376]
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So you're saying he was 2 of 3 with a TD and 0 INT before
Dec 1, 2013, 10:46 PM
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this season?
Humphries was wide open. I'm sure they practiced the play and I'm sure it worked every time. I'm sure every time it worked, Sammy Watkins didn't delay the throw or throw a rainbow, otherwise any safety on our roster could have ran to it, and they would have coached Sammy to not do it again. Fact is, he must have demonstrated an ability to throw the ball on time and effectively, or we wouldn't have called the play. Did we have to run it? No, not really. Does that make it a poor play call or one that was any riskier than any other play call. No again.
And by the way, trying to compare that one play call to yanking Merriweather when he was singlehandedly driving us for a winning score, well, there really isn't any comparison at all.
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Expert [1376]
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Getting "cute" on the first drive...
Dec 1, 2013, 10:03 AM
[ in reply to The first offensive series we move the ball ] |
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You do realize that most every play run in today's offensive schemes has some element of misdirection or similar attempt to confuse the opposing team? In that sense most every play is a "trick" play. The play we ran wasn't some sort of triple-reverse flea flicker. It was a simple WR option pass. Make the defense come up on the play, then throw over the top. Not risky or really cute at all. Just another version of misdirection so to speak.
Did you see Auburn beat Alabama yesterday? Nearly every single play they call has guys running in all sorts of directions, clearly meant to confuse and "trick" the defense. There is nothing wrong with using today's athletes to run an offense in this manner.
The "cute" play was a perfectly good call. Humphries was wide open. The safety was nowhere in sight. It should have been an easy touchdown, but we held the ball about 2 seconds too long then put entirely too much arc on it when we did throw it. That's what allowed the safety to get anywhere in the same time zone.
It wasn't "risky" at all either. You can fumble or throw an interception just as easily or maybe even easier on a more "traditional" play. If the safety made the correct read from the get-go, then throwing into coverage would have been risky. The play was as open as can be. Just poorly executed.
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110%er [7114]
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A "perfectly good call"
Dec 1, 2013, 10:06 AM
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Maybe... if it had been our QB throwing the ball to our best wide receiver. Instead, we have our best wide receiver throwing the INT to end a drive that could have set the tone for the entire game.
Inexplicable.
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Expert [1376]
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Not a thing wrong with the call or the player executing it.
Dec 1, 2013, 10:21 AM
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The player held the ball too long then obviously didn't see the safety desperately sprinting to get back in the picture. It was WIDE OPEN therefore a good call. Sammy has shown an ability to throw the ball before, but this one was all poor execution, not a risky or poor play call at all.
I suppose you think South Carolina's last TD was too cute too? It was a trick play; simple misdirection. If Cooper holds the ball a split second longer or puts just a tad too much loft on the ball, then either Shuey or Kearse recover and break it up or intercept. The end result was perfectly acceptable play call, combined with good execution.
Regardless, we fought back to tie the score late in the 3rd quarter. A series of about 10 plays swayed the outcome. The series of plays had nothing to do with playcalling or toughness. That was the point of the original post.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: A "perfectly good call"
Dec 1, 2013, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to A "perfectly good call" ] |
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great ppoint and totally correct
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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Expert [1376]
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Would Humphries been so wide open if Tahj rolled out there?
Dec 1, 2013, 10:54 AM
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Doubt it.
Is it a sure thing that Tahj wouldn't throw an INT? Obviously not.
The play was wide open. It was there for the taking with a guy who has demonstrated he can throw the ball and undoubtedly hit this particular pass several times in practice.
Again I submit, there was nothing wrong with the play call for the stated reasons. The play call wasn't risky and it didn't ultimately effect the outcome of the game.
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Legend [17630]
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Orange Blooded [2404]
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Expert [1376]
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Exactly. Not related to the play call.***
Dec 1, 2013, 10:55 AM
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Asst Coach [713]
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Re: Sorry to offend the morons, but only moron would blame the
Dec 1, 2013, 10:06 AM
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Truth
Sammy throws that in there tight and that DB never gets over there
Fact
Sammy and the rest of the O was worried about the D line and he took an extra second to peek and make sure not to get crushed which ended up being a duck giving the DV time to get over there and get an Int
Against Maryland, BC, NC St that is a TD 99 out of 100
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Expert [1376]
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"took an extra second to peek and ... not to get crushed"
Dec 1, 2013, 10:13 AM
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"[Sammy] took an extra second to peek and make sure not to get crushed which ended up being a duck".
I don't think that's the case, at all. To my recollection, Sammy's delay wasn't due to looking back at any pursuing D-linemen. Are you sure you're not making that up?
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Sorry to offend the morons, but only moron would blame the
Dec 1, 2013, 10:08 AM
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you left out the Sammy pass which set the tone.
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Orange Blooded [3469]
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I guess I'm a moron if I
Dec 1, 2013, 10:16 AM
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believe coaches are responsible for turnovers. I thougth it was their job to prepare the players not to do those things. I'm a moron becasue turnovers have been the major issue in the last 5 games vs SC, with diffrent players but the same story, the only name not to change is Dabo, but its not his fault. Next year with diffrent players and still more turnovers, and we lose again, it will not be Dabo's fault. in five years with even diffrent players and still turnovers, it will not be Dabo fault. Coaches arn't expected to teach players not to turn the ball over. Funny how you never see Shaw, M. DAvis, Garcia, Thompson, Roland, Jeffries, Bruce Ellington, Lattimore, Miles, and the other Gamecock players turn the ball over that much i these big games these past 5 years. Guess Spurrier is just lucky.
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Expert [1376]
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Yep. the 15-3 turnover disparity in the last 5 is a big
Dec 1, 2013, 10:26 AM
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reason why we've lost 5, but to suggest Tajh Boyd, Sammy Watkins, or Adam Humphries are poorly coached, well yeah, you might be a moron if...
The turnover disparity in this game has been bizarre, but it doesn't reflect the whole body of work under this coaching staff's watch.
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Orange Blooded [3469]
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Your right
Dec 1, 2013, 10:41 AM
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Thse guys were coached so well. I must be a moron. Best coaching I ever seen. Lookig forward to the next 5 years of awesome coaching. Perhaps 20 more turnovers worth of great coaching.
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Expert [1376]
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Well, it's respectable of you to admit it.
Dec 1, 2013, 10:50 AM
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15-3 is an anomaly, not coaching. We've won 31+ games in 3 years, is that coaching or just dumb luck?
Fact is, we are in one of the most successful periods in Clemson history. It could turn into the best ever.
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Zealot [751]
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Negative ghost rider- letting Connor Shaw run rampant?
Dec 1, 2013, 10:36 AM
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Coaching. Calling the trick play? Coaching. Letting A Hump continue to return punts? Coaching. Not running to ball more? Coaching. The last two picks are a player trying to make a play.
It's not just this game btw, it's how it goes in every big game. We turn the ball over, get beat physically, etc. that's coaching.
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Associate AD [844]
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^bingo***
Dec 1, 2013, 10:44 AM
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Expert [1376]
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So whenever a great athlete from the opposing team makes
Dec 1, 2013, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Negative ghost rider- letting Connor Shaw run rampant? ] |
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great plays, it the coaches fault? Not coaching.
There was nothing wrong with the "trick" play. It was a WIDE OPEN, tremendous call to set the tone, and it had no true bearing on the outcome of the game (http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=14717866#14717866). Not coaching at all.
Putting a guy in there who has been EXTREMELY consistent in fielding punts, plus considering he was hit by his own player on the first turnover? Not coaching at all.
We ran the ball 29 times and passed 28 times. We drove with balanced running and passing. We drove to the #### 34 before all hell broke loose. The ensuing hell had nothing to do with coaching.
- Clemson effectively and efficiently moves ball to the #### 34. Fumble
- Clemson defense holds. Punt fumbled at our 31-yard line.
- 3 plays complete w/ trick play by cockz. TD.
- Very next Clemson offensive play, INT.
- Three Clemson plays later, INT.
I'm sorry but you "gotta blame coaches no matter what" monkeys are a sad lot.
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Sorry to offend the morons, but only moron would blame the
Dec 1, 2013, 11:04 AM
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sorry to say but you are wrong. PLEASE let me ex[plain. The last 2 INT's are after the game is basically over so no need to explain them. please tell me why Humphries was back returning punts? He is too small, not tough enough and has the deer in the headlights syndrome. Don't we have other players capable of catching the darn ball?That is coaching. please explain why one would have WR throw a trick pass in the first quarter when we were taking it to them on the ground and with short possession type passes? Please explain how a DC cannot stop a basic QB draw and was given upwards of 10 tries to stop the kid? Please explain why a guy jumps off sides when it was very obvious they were going to punt? Di d the DC tell his players not to move until it was snapped or not? Where were the throws to Bryant and Sammy to take advantage of size/speed over their DB's? We ran 1 delay draw and it went for 20 or so. Why not again? Where were the wheel routes to OB's? When we all saw that Tajh was "pulling a Tajh" why was he not taken out for one series to regain his composure? Please answer these as they are specific cases not generalities. Yes, we fumbled it, INT's BUT there were more opportunities for the coaches to change the tone of the game and they chose not to do so. Dabo stays, the other 2 are way over their heads and clueless! Perfect case of the ole Peter Principle
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Athletic Dir [864]
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Re: Sorry to offend the morons, but only moron would blame the
Dec 1, 2013, 11:05 AM
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Agree to some extent. The first drive call where they had sammy throw to humphries and he threw an interception was a stupid call...this isn't high school.
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Replies: 26
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