Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
Legend [16027]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7665
Joined: 12/4/06
|
I may get hammered because of this post but one the best HC’s
Sep 16, 2018, 12:34 AM
|
|
at Arkansas was Kenny Hatfield. Compare him to other coaches of his time and his record was up their with Danny Ford’s record. I stand by my post.
I hope the Arkansas fans will give Chad Morris the time he needs to build a winning program. I believe he can accomplish some really good things at Arkansas.
|
|
|
|
All-In [30873]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22896
Joined: 11/1/03
|
Hatfield's teams at Arkansas were beasts.
Sep 16, 2018, 1:03 AM
|
|
The 1988 game at Miami is one of the best games I've ever watched. Back then, nobody thought winning at Miami was possible and Arkansas very nearly pulled it off. I believe they were in the middle of a 58 game home winning streak then.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16027]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7665
Joined: 12/4/06
|
Re: Hatfield's teams at Arkansas were beasts.
Sep 16, 2018, 1:07 AM
|
|
That was a great game. Hatfield finished his last 4 seasons at Arkansas with 10 win 4 consecutive years.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9736]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 9422
Joined: 1/18/17
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58448]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46333
Joined: 4/23/00
|
You are correct.***
Sep 16, 2018, 1:26 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40100]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18284
Joined: 10/28/15
|
I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark
Sep 16, 2018, 7:47 AM
|
|
But sucked at Clemson. Ford was great at Clemson but sucked at Arkansas. I live in Arkansas now and when people talk about Ford it is very similar to the way we talk about Hatfield. It’s interesting. If I may extrapolate, I think Dabo is a perfect fit for Clemson but I’m not sure he would be at Alabama.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17805]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16678
Joined: 9/1/12
|
Coaches often can not replicate success
Sep 16, 2018, 8:07 AM
|
|
Just like CEOs that have monster success at one company but then cannot replicate that success.
A lot if things need to come together for success as well - a coach can only control so much.
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark
Sep 16, 2018, 8:17 AM
[ in reply to I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark ] |
|
I can't argue that Ford sucked at Arky, but IMO his players played with "fire in their belly" and gave teams all they wanted. I enjoyed watching Arky when Ford was there. They played like I think players should play.
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10640]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9267
Joined: 12/29/06
|
Re: I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark
Sep 16, 2018, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark ] |
|
I never felt like Ford was fully committed at Arkansas. I know he still had his farm here and I am not sure that his family moved to Arkansas. I may be wrong about that, but regardless just never felt he was totally into it. I think Hatfield was pretty much the same way here. His record here was not bad, but he just never seemed to want to fit in and give everything he had.
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44055]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32968
Joined: 2/22/03
|
I feel like Hatfield lacked the support he needed at Clemson.
Sep 16, 2018, 9:56 AM
|
|
Unfortunately, a segment of our fan base was still mad about Danny not being our coach, and didn’t support Hatfield or truly want him to succeed. The stories about our own fans and boosters undermining his efforts are numerous, including telling recruits that they shouldn’t come to Clemson.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16186]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8525
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: I feel like Hatfield lacked the support he needed at Clemson.
Sep 16, 2018, 10:48 AM
|
|
Hatfield had great support at Clemson. We were all mad at Lennon but Hatfield got good fan support at the games, in personal interactions and the money kept pouring into Clemson.
But Hatfield took over a perennial 10 game winner and took us to 7th place in the ACC in 3 short years. We played bad bad football his last two years and that had nothing to do with lack of fan support.
Message was edited by: Harley®
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44055]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32968
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Hatfield himself was certainly part of the problem.
Sep 16, 2018, 11:12 AM
|
|
He wasn’t as likable as Danny, and wasn’t as good of a coach as Danny. But he was a good coach, and didn’t deserve some of the stuff he had to deal with at Clemson, including some fans who didn’t want him to succeed.
It’s interesting how, in the 25 years since that era, Danny is portrayed as better than he was, and Hatfield is portrayed as worse than he was.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16186]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8525
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Hatfield himself was certainly part of the problem.
Sep 16, 2018, 12:53 PM
|
|
I don't try to portray Hatfield in a bad light. He was a good gameday coach. I do get defensive when the story gets warped to make Hatfield's poor performance to have been caused by lack of Clemson fan support.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5436]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11913
Joined: 9/23/01
|
Re: Hatfield himself was certainly part of the problem.
Sep 16, 2018, 7:25 PM
|
|
A good game day coach ? Remember gtech at gtech. UVA at clemson. UVA At uva.
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [976]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 1836
Joined: 10/13/00
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2140]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 1393
Joined: 8/15/06
|
Re: Hatfield himself was certainly part of the problem.
Sep 16, 2018, 8:59 PM
[ in reply to Hatfield himself was certainly part of the problem. ] |
|
Hatfield didn't help himself with fan support at all when he was here. I lived at Clemson House in 1990 and he used to eat breakfast there quite often. I would walk by and say "good morning coach" and he would just scowl at me and keep eating never saying a word. Never understood why.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16877]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9377
Joined: 11/1/14
|
Re: I feel like Hatfield lacked the support he needed at Clemson.
Sep 16, 2018, 7:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: I feel like Hatfield lacked the support he needed at Clemson. ] |
|
^^This! I liked Hatfield just fine...but the combo of him and Lennon! Yuck! I actually stopped following the program after '92...simply didn't care about it or the school. Just lived my life...
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5436]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 11913
Joined: 9/23/01
|
Re: I feel like Hatfield lacked the support he needed at Clemson.
Sep 16, 2018, 7:26 PM
|
|
Then stay away
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2939]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3187
Joined: 5/10/05
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1761]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2022
Joined: 8/22/99
|
|
|
|
|
1st Rounder [640]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 498
Joined: 11/19/07
|
Re: I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark
Sep 16, 2018, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark ] |
|
Hatfield was hamstrung by then Clemson President Max Lennon, who became very anti-athletic department and had a special disdain for the football program after the last round of NCAA issues and Danny Ford.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16027]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7665
Joined: 12/4/06
|
Re: I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark
Sep 17, 2018, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to I still find it interesting that Hatfield was great at Ark ] |
|
IMO Hatfield did a great job under adverse circumstances. He came in after the very popular Danny Ford exited under the worst of circumstances and suspicions. Hatfield was never made to feel welcome by the core Clemson fan base. Let’s at least have the Guts to admit we treated Kenny Hatfield pretty bad.
He also had some players who resented that he was replacing their beloved HC DF. Ken Hatfield was not like DF. He could not excite crowds like Danny, but KH was a good coach an even better man. People say he was a loser, but history shows he was a winner. He was 32-13-1 at Clemson. Not bad for a coach who quite never won over the fans at Clemson. His recruiting was sabotaged by Clemson people as well as used by other schools to use the toxic situation at Clemson to negatively recruit against us. Yes KH was the first CU HC to lose to UVA, but who is to say Danny would not have lost that game. UVA was pretty good in the early 90’s. KH had success wherever he was the HC. Even at Rice where he had 2 or 3 winning seasons at a school where winning a game in a season was difficult. He won Arkansas’s last Conference Title and had many successful seasons their.
Before some of you go nuts about this post , try to remember I loved it when DF was the HC at Clemson. But he had sub par at years CU too. He was just a football coach, a man with faults like the rest of us.
Before harshly judging KH, do your research on Hatfield, put yourself in his shoes, try to think how he felt while at Clemson. Think what it was like for him going to work everyday knowing that many fans did not want him at Clemson. Try to see things from his perspective. Learn some of the things that were said about him and his family and some of the negative treatment he received on game days. Especially when Clemson lost.
One of the most embarrassing times for me as a diehard CU fan was when so childish immature fan or fans paid to have a plane fly over the stadium during games pulling a sign with “Fire Hatfield, bring back Danny” or “ Fire Hatfield, Come Home Danny”.To me that was a very embarrassing and a very low point in Clemson’s great athletic history.
When DF left CU, At that time Kenny Hatfield was exactly what Clemson needed to reel in the football program, address NCAA violations and bring stability to the overall situation. It’s unfortunate that DF departure was batched so bad by the President, BOT’s and the AD. But that was not Ken Hatfield’s fault, but sure was given some of the blame.
I think DF did a great job at Clemson but IMO the turn around with Clemson football during the 70’s started with Red Parker then under Charlie Pell. Danny was able to take it up a few notches. DF gave us some great memories while at Clemson. Maybe when he took the Razorbacks HC’s position his heart was never in the Arkansas job. I think his heart was always back in Clemson. IMO DF bleed Orange like all diehard Clemson fans.
They say you can never go back home again and things will be the same. I believe that to be true. DF was at Arkansas but his heart was in Clemson. He wanted to come home but it just never would have been like the 80’s.
I think Dabo could make adjustments and fit in any situation.!Would he have Saban type success at Bama. I don’t think so because Dabo sale out to win football games. I agree Clemson is the perfect fit for Dabo.
We can thank TB for bringing Dabo and Brad Scott to Clemson. We can thank KH for coming in during the darkest days in Clemson History and making a situation better.
Many fans may disagree with this post, but I think KH and TB deserve much better from Clemson fans and the Administration than what they have received.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2218]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 5870
Joined: 1/28/12
|
Lou Holtz did the best job there***
Sep 16, 2018, 9:31 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: I may get hammered because of this post but one the best HC’s
Sep 16, 2018, 10:53 AM
|
|
I think he needs 3 to 5 years to turn that program around. He will keep recruiting better and better.
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6099]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13248
Joined: 11/10/00
|
Remember Clemson’s 93 team? “Good record” but that team
Sep 16, 2018, 10:58 AM
|
|
was not good. Hatfield’s Arkansas teams feed off weak schedules, similar to 93 Clemson. When Arkansas played a real team, they got beat.
Hatfield handled the post Ford situation about as well as a coach could. He was greeted with boos, which was shameful. He was a “good” coach, but was never going to be a great coach
Message was edited by: tigertrain®
Message was edited by: tigertrain®
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3327
Joined: 8/23/02
|
That was why I was really optimistic when we hired Hatfield
Sep 16, 2018, 12:58 PM
|
|
I like him at Ark, and thought he would fit well here.
He didn't, and mostly bc he couldn't recruit. He inherited a championship roster, and left with a barely-make-a-bowl roster. I saw it first hand(those were my 4 seasons as a student) and could tell by looking at the guys in the weight room. WE had monsters in there in 1990, but only slightly bigger than average in 1994.
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16733]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16764
Joined: 8/19/04
|
Re: That was why I was really optimistic when we hired Hatfield
Sep 16, 2018, 7:02 PM
|
|
I second what you are saying. I took my kids to their first CU football games right after we hire tommy west mid 90’s. I was shocked how small our players were. My daughter cheered at a kids cheer day on the field. I had to go on the field to get her after she cheered at halftime. I passed the entire football team on the way to the field and most were smaller than me. I am 6’2” and 185 lbs.
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2939]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3187
Joined: 5/10/05
|
Hatfield did a great job at Arkansas and we would've
Sep 17, 2018, 9:45 AM
|
|
probably been better off during the West years with Hatfield at the helm instead. I understood the Hatfield hire better than the West hire by far. No doubt TW did try his best
|
|
|
|
Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
|
|