Replies: 58
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Zealot [868]
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Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 12:59 PM
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will not attract the players we need to take the program to the next level.
Good players don't want to play tough defense, then walk it up the court and pass it 10 times trying to get an easy look.
Our football recruiting hit another level once Chad Morris got here and we started showcasing players like Tajh and Sammy in a high powered offense.
We need that even more so for a basketball program that doesn't have a rich tradition.
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All-In [48078]
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I think it depends
Mar 19, 2015, 1:01 PM
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Look at Wisconsin and Mich State. I just don't the CBB is a good enough recruiter.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 1:01 PM
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1) Our incoming class has great offers....
2) Our Football recruiting didnt take off until the WEZ was completed.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 1:18 PM
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I think if we ran a smash mouth offense we wouldn't be landing players like DW, Ray Ray, Cain........the list goes on.......no matter how nice our facilities are.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 1:21 PM
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Yea we see how much Bama and LSU struggle in recruiting.
Also doesnt change the fact that recruiting picked up with the completion of the WEZ.
Even when Rich Rod was here and we were tossing the ball around like no other our recruiting was not on this level.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 1:42 PM
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Alabama and LSU have been among the best programs in the country for a while.
Clemson has not.
You gonna sit here and tell me we would have landed the players I mentioned before if we didn't run the HUNH?
You're more delusional than I thought.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 1:45 PM
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So you have no rebuttal to the fact that we have run HUHN before and not recruited great.
That is what I figured.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 2:04 PM
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Just answer this question-
Would players like DW, Ray Ray Mcloud, Deon Cain, Artavis Scott have signed with Clemson if we didn't run the type of offense we do?
I realize there are other great things about Clemson that attract players but the main attraction is the opportunity to play in our offense.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 2:30 PM
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What does that have to do with my post?
Clemson ran the HUHN with Woody here and our recruiting was not great. Clemson's recruiting did not start to turn the corner until the WEZ was completed.
That is a fact.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 2:40 PM
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OP was able to recruit the right players for his system with the same facilities Brownell has.
Now what?
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 2:55 PM
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Are you unable to stay on topic? I guess I would attempt to derail after being shown I was full of #### also.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:06 PM
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You're the one that is ignoring the point of this post, and that is that Brownell has not and can not recruit the type of players he needs to be successful.
Your excuse is the facilities, so I say again:
OP was able to bring in better athletes with the same limitations.
What's changed?
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:11 PM
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No that is not your argument at all.
You are saying his style is the reason for it. You tried to say the reason Clemson Football recruits well is the HUHN... I proved that to be false. Now you are trying to deflect again.
Basically I have found debating with you easy once again. It always is when the competition is not very intelligent.
Have a wonderful day I am giong to enjoy the tournament. My work here is done.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:15 PM
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Lol. How did you prove that to be false?
Do you really believe when high school athletes see the touches and exposure our playmakers get in our offense that doesn't factor in to them choosing Clemson?
OP's style is what made him successful at Clemson. If not then what was it?
Again, the facilities and tradition was no different than it is now.
Actually it is worse, but that's Brownell's fault.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:30 PM
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LOL try to keep up, he proved that our football recruiting was not as good as it currently is while running HUNH under Rich Rod.
You are attempting to make the point that recruiting is better while running a certain style so lets take a look at that.
According to Rivals:
OP recruited - 2 2*s, 21 3*s, 2 4*s, and 1 5* during his time in tiger town. an average of 3.07*s
Brownell has recruited - 13 3*s, 2 4*s and 1 not ranked due to being CC(djambo) an average of 3.13*s not including djambo. 2.93*s if you include a 0 for djambo.
Seems to me recruiting overall is about the same. So this belief that you have that scheme equals better recruits is simply NOT true.
HTH
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Oculus Spirit [96873]
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"due to being CC(djambo)"...
Mar 19, 2015, 3:39 PM
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was this a rassist comment?
It sounded like a rassist comment.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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nope trying to designate he was coming out of community
Mar 19, 2015, 3:41 PM
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college.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's style of play.... ] |
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I never said OP recruited highly rated players.
What I said was he recruited better ATHLETES to run his system.
You gonna sit here and tell me those tournament teams under OP werent much more talented that what we have now?
And guess what?
THE FACILITIES WERE THE SAME THEN AS THEY ARE NOW.
Those players were attracted to the up and down style of play.
Spin it however you want, Brownie had ran this program into the mud.
Year 5 we're sitting at the house watching post season play.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:47 PM
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You're arguing with yourself.....
Why bring up our exceptional football recruiting if you aren't trying to make that point?
"Would players like DW, Ray Ray Mcloud, Deon Cain, Artavis Scott have signed with Clemson if we didn't run the type of offense we do?"
All you've done is name 4 and 5* top notch recruits to try to make your point and then say that wasn't your point to begin with???
Can't keep changing your "story" every time someone DESTROYS your logic or lack there of.
Also, Guess who recruited the BEST player and ATHLETE in recent Clemson basketball history.....Brownell with KJ.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 4:17 PM
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Maybe you should educate yourself a little bit and go look at the types of players OP recruited and then get back to me.
They weren't great "basketball" players, but they were great athletes and that gave us a chance to be successful and guess what?
WE WERE VERY SUCCESSFUL.
Are we now?
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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What does that have to do with my post?
Mar 19, 2015, 4:22 PM
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LOL, called out again and you refuse to rebuttal. Doesn't surprise me though.
You said and I quote
"Good players don't want to play tough defense, then walk it up the court and pass it 10 times trying to get an easy look."
What constitutes a good player?
Keep in mind you pointed out that OP left Brownell with the best Clemson class ever so that leads us to believe that you equate * rankings with "good players"
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's style of play.... ] |
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You also conveniently left out the fact that Brownell inherited the best class in Clemson bball history.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:50 PM
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Care to explain how I left that out?
I put that down as an OP class you DA.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's style of play.... ] |
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"You also conveniently left out the fact that Brownell inherited the best class in Clemson bball history."
Holy ####..... wow
You think a class whos star player was Milton Jennings was the best class in program history....
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:52 PM
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But he's referring to "ATHLETES" not * ratings....
What an idiot.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 4:21 PM
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Yea I'm an idiot.
Lol. Apparently you just started watching Clemson basketball the last couple years.
You're in a no win situation anyway considering the fact that OP was successful and Brownie has not been.
Either OP was able to get better players or he was able to coach them up.
Either way you and your boy lose.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 4:22 PM
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"Yea I'm an idiot. "
First correct thing you have said in this thread....
A class with Milton Jennings as the star is the best ever...
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 4:54 PM
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A 5 star mcdonalds all american, 2 4 stars and a 3 star.
That's the terrible situation he was left with.
Can't help he couldn't keep the class intact or coach up the ones he kept.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's style of play.... ] |
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Care to explain how I lose?
Your premise is extremely flawed and you keep talking yourself in circles.
Anytime anyone proves you wrong, you attempt to take your "argument" in a different direction.
Nice try but your colors are showing.
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Zealot [868]
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Let's try this again....
Mar 19, 2015, 4:58 PM
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Brownell needs "basketball" players for his style to be effective. We're not getting those recruiting against Duke and UNC and the rest of the ACC.
With OP's style he was able to attract better athletes that gave us an edge.
If you think a renovated basketball arena is suddenly going to allow Brownell to bring in the players we need to compete night in and night out then more power to you, but it aint happening.
I called 5 years ago and was flamed, and now there's still a few of you hanging on.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Let's try this again....
Mar 19, 2015, 6:33 PM
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Again with talking in circles....this has nothing to do with your original post where you were equating a high powered offense with better recruiting which I proved is not the case. Since you seem to think op had a high powered offense. His recruiting over his tenure here is no better than what brownell has done.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's style of play.... ] |
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Thats a da statement - When has LSU and Bama run a HUNH offense?!?
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Legend [16158]
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Yeah....Bama would get much better players if they weren't
Mar 19, 2015, 1:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brownell's style of play.... ] |
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hamstrung by their scheme...oh wait...
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Yeah....Bama would get much better players if they weren't
Mar 19, 2015, 2:01 PM
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Clemson ain't Alabama.
Thanks for helping my point.
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All-In [35206]
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Yea.... look at all those recruits now flocking to SMU....
Mar 19, 2015, 2:07 PM
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So our hoops team needs to be more offensive? Ok, but who's going to be those said scorers? I mean Belmont loves to shoot all day long but what high profile recruits dissed Duke or Kentucky to go to Belmont for their style of play? And remember we beat Belmont last year using a defensive style of play....
But hey it could be worse. Our baseball team can't play defense or offense.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Legend [18708]
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We can't even make a layup, much less hotdog it !***
Mar 19, 2015, 1:02 PM
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Heisman Winner [111697]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 1:03 PM
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he got the point guard he wanted in this class. With all due respect to Rod Hall, the position has has been our weakness.
defensively we are as good as any team in the country.
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CU Medallion [64593]
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Brown needs to hire himself a Chad Morris type OC***
Mar 19, 2015, 1:06 PM
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Commissioner [974]
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Re: Brownell's style of play....
Mar 19, 2015, 1:22 PM
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You are not comparing apples to apples. Football is totally different.In basketball you have to have players buy in to your defensive philosophy because those same offensive players have to play defense as well. It's not like you can sub defense for offense between every possession. He can win you just have to shoot the ball better. Look at UVA.
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CU Medallion [58432]
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Here's what you're missing . . .
Mar 19, 2015, 1:27 PM
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Good players don't want to play tough defense, then walk it up the court and pass it 10 times trying to get an easy look.
Passing it 10 times before getting (hopefully) an open look has very little to do with Brownell's "style", and everything to do with the fact that we don't have players capable of getting or creating good looks. It's a talent/recruiting issue more than anything else.
Our football recruiting hit another level once Chad Morris got here and we started showcasing players like Tajh and Sammy in a high powered offense.
We don't have any basketball players like Tajh and Sammy in football to showcase. Not even close. We had McDaniels last year, but showcasing him would have been like trying to showcase Sammy without a Tajh. Again, it's a talent/recruiting issue, not a "style" problem.
First, it's a mistake to see our terrible offense and lack of shooting/scoring and assume that that is "Brownell's style". We look that way because we don't have players capable of shooting and scoring and creating offense. We HAVE to play great defense to have a chance. I guarantee we would play much faster and score more and more often if we had better players, and Brownell's style would be perceived much differently and would not be questioned. Secondly, many, many great, very successful coaches stress defense. Great defense does not have to come at the expense of the offense; almost all good teams have both, but of course, almost all good teams have multiple players that can shoot and score.
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Commissioner [974]
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Re: Here's what you're missing . . .
Mar 19, 2015, 1:29 PM
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Well said.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Here's what you're missing . . .
Mar 19, 2015, 1:50 PM
[ in reply to Here's what you're missing . . . ] |
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The problem you fellas that defend Brownell and claim he's such a great coach always run into (although it doesn't seem to hold you back) is that the guy we had before was able to recruit better athletes with the same limitations Brownell has now.
The type of players Brownell needs to be successful aren't looking at Clemson, they are looking at Duke and UNC. OP was able to get better athletes (not necessarily better basketball players) because of the up tempo style of play.
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CU Medallion [58432]
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Ultimately, Brownell is as good or bad as his record.
Mar 19, 2015, 2:04 PM
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I do like Brownell, and I think he's a good coach, but I'm only invested in him to the extent he builds the program and wins. He has underachieved in my mind, so far at least, and will have to do better quickly if he is gonna stay. So, I'm not trying to "defend" him, I'm just pointing out the facts as I see them. It's funny that you use Duke as an example, because coach K has always been a defense first guy and illustrates my point perfectly. The reason his teams are better on offense and score more is simply because he has better players. His style is very similar, if not identical to Brownell's.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Ultimately, Brownell is as good or bad as his record.
Mar 19, 2015, 2:08 PM
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I never said defense wasn't important but if it's so important that our offense is stagnant........
Duke is far from stagnant on offense- 4th in points per game.
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All-In [35206]
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^^calls someone out for bringin up Bama, then brings up Duke
Mar 19, 2015, 2:13 PM
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Contradictory are we?
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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CU Medallion [58432]
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Reading skills are under rated . . .
Mar 19, 2015, 2:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ultimately, Brownell is as good or bad as his record. ] |
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"Great defense does not have to come at the expense of the offense; almost all good teams have both, but of course, almost all good teams have multiple players that can shoot and score. "
From my response to your original post.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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Re: Here's what you're missing . . .
Mar 19, 2015, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here's what you're missing . . . ] |
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what sense does that make? He recruited "not better bb players". Whats the point of that argument?
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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The Chad did not recruit Tajh, Sammy, Tay B or Peake....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to Here's what you're missing . . . ] |
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I think you got the cart before the horse on this one.
Of course in terms of a KNEE-JERK argument about Brownell, this is a popular one,
so I'm sure you got extra feel-good lemming points from the TNET "Fire a Coach A Day" crew.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: The Chad did not recruit Tajh, Sammy, Tay B or Peake....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:18 PM
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Never said he did.
What I said was when Chad Morris got here and the offense became one of the best in the country that's when our recruiting reached a new level.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: The Chad did not recruit Tajh, Sammy, Tay B or Peake....
Mar 19, 2015, 3:22 PM
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3 years before he arrived we had the second ranked class in the country....
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Orange Blooded [3820]
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so you're saying our recruiting reached another level AFTER
Mar 19, 2015, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Chad did not recruit Tajh, Sammy, Tay B or Peake.... ] |
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we got Sammy, Tajh, Peake, Spiller, Stephone Anthony, Tony Steward, Dwayne Allen, et al?
Dude, not even "moronic" covers that post.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: so you're saying our recruiting reached another level AFTER
Mar 19, 2015, 5:02 PM
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We've had some good classes over the years, but we've never been as consistent as we are now.
And I still haven't received and answer from any of you dipshits.
Would we be pulling in players like DW and Ray Ray Mccloud running a power running game offense?
No we would not.
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: so you're saying our recruiting reached another level AFTER
Mar 19, 2015, 5:50 PM
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> We've had some good classes over the years, but we've > never been as consistent as we are now. > > And I still haven't received and answer from any of > you dipshits. > > Would we be pulling in players like DW and Ray Ray > Mccloud running a power running game offense? > > No we would not.
Completely flawed argument. We wouldn't NEED those players if we were running a power offense. We would instead be heavy on star Rbs and OL and a pro style qb. You have to have players to fit the system you run. Hard to recruit 10 wr when you play 2 at most at one time.
And mentality comes into play too. Would have to recruit hard nosed tough kids and not finesse athletes. Wouldn't hold up to the daily pounding of those practices.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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Tell 'em coot
Mar 19, 2015, 2:12 PM
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fno.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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Posts: 12314
Joined: 3/28/06
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Football recruiting really picked up when we did the
Mar 19, 2015, 2:23 PM
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facilities upgrades.
Say what you will about BB and recruiting but it's undeniable that facilities upgrades have played a big part in our recruiting resurgence.
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Orange Blooded [2609]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6653
Joined: 9/1/11
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But you failed to mention Coac V and the Defense
Mar 19, 2015, 2:59 PM
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selective I see
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