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17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
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Legend [19694]
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17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 9:03 AM
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overachieve, or come up about right? Preseason ACC media pegged us for 11th, so they were about right. I personally feel this team underachieved. Hall became more than an adequate replacement of Simms and is honestly the best player we've had under Brad. Collins was an upgrade over Trapp. Tyson continued his year by year improvement in spite of the games missed. Hunter made big strides. We won 4 in a row without Hall. My personal opinion is we had better talent than a 10th place finish. We struggled to close games out. This was a veteran team, that should not have been the case.
I think Brad remains coach. I think next year is yet another NCAA or bust year for his career here. He's had a few of those. Depending on what Tyson does, we'll be young at SF and PF next year. Can we surround Hall with enough complimentary talent to make the tourney? Make a run in the tourney? Finish top 6 in the ACC? My opinion is no right now. So are we just postponing the inevitable with Brad?
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All-TigerNet [12876]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 9:07 AM
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Slightly underachieved...
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Starter [394]
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Underachieved
Mar 10, 2022, 9:14 AM
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by a mile, they were a veteran team, in the worst season that the ACC has ever and will ever experience, and our veteran coach led us to a 8-12 record with more. Time to go Brad!!!!
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All-In [38124]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 9:22 AM
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I don't know if they were better, worse, or as expected, but another overall .500 season and sub .500 conference season is certainly what I expect every year under Brad. I am pleasantly surprised when they have a 20 win season and .500 conference season.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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If everyone is content...
Mar 10, 2022, 9:25 AM
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with mediocre basketball and only making the tournament three times every twelve years, then Brad Brownell is probably your guy. Otherwise, it's time to move on in a different direction.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Nobody expected one of his worst teams in 12 years here.
Mar 10, 2022, 9:28 AM
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I think Coach Brownell thought this team would be much better than they turned out to be with the only real loss being Simms and the experience returning on the perimeter with Dawes and Hunter and the addition of two grad students in Naz Bohannon and David Collins and the development of PJ Hall. Hall played well, but Dawes, Hunter, Bohannon and Collins were so inconsistent.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Dawes and Honor.
Mar 10, 2022, 9:35 AM
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Though I like Chase Hunter, I meant to list Honor as returning perimeter experience.
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All-In [31313]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 9:40 AM
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I would say underachieve especially with the current state of the ACC.
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110%er [9726]
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I think they underachieved.
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Mar 10, 2022, 9:47 AM
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I do agree with you that Brad very likely will return next season.
And yes, that will be postponing the inevitable.
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CU Guru [1492]
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Big time Underachievement
Mar 10, 2022, 9:59 AM
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The ACC was terrible and Clemson was a veteran team with an all-ACC caliber player leading the way. We blew more leads than I can count, partly due to bad coaching down the stretch. The team fought hard the last few games.
Just no excuse for a losing record in the ACC's worst season in years. Especially with the talent we have. Brownell has only made the tournament 20% of the time the last decade. No excuse.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 10:41 AM
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I think we underachieved, not so much in the final record, but with the actual in game performances .Losing last night at the buzzer was just an example when you compare it to at least 3 games this year where if we had hit a buzzer beater we would have won.
And how do you manage to lose a 23 point lead at home to Boston College, or win by 17 at Virginia, then lose a week later by 5 at home or go to Ga. Tech and lose by 5 then beat them at Littlejohn by 3.Explain those games.
And that is not even mentioning the 6 game losing streak we had before winning 5 in a row .And two of those losses were to a FSU team that was in a 4 game losing streak with 3 starters out or Louisville ,which was mired in a 6 game losing streak and had an interim Head Coach. REALLY! If that is not underachieving I don't know what is.
Just my opinion, just way too many inconsistencies. And those inconsistencies have been a part of this program since day 1.
At first we couldn't make free throws. We correct that ,and we then go into 5-7 scoring droughts, or commit more turnovers than our leading scorer has points, or play good defense only to allow that last minute score to beat us because of a lapse in that defense.
I think you are correct. Brad gets another year but I hope our new AD has the [basket] balls to tell him he needs to make the dance or go find another partner.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 12:32 PM
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It's lack of talent.
Good players are consistent.
Not so good players are inconsistent.
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Legend [16259]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 10:44 AM
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One of the main reasons that we seem to often place higher at year end in conference than pre-season polls is simply that most ACC beat reporters don't really take the time to get to know our program. We are largely off most people's radar from a buzz or notoriety standpoint, and our placement there reflects that. It's more a symptom of our program's overall malaise than anything. We're not really worth the time and effort to deep dive on.
As for this season, even the staunchest of Brownell pumpers was on here early in the season touting the strength of our roster and the promise it offered ahead, and asking people not to give up on them. One win over .500 and season over after the ACCT does not reflect that promise.
For this season, we simply performed at the milquetoast level that has defined this current era - no more, no less. This is Clemson basketball, and our record backs that up.
I would say that if our 12-year record was shared in a blind fashion with any D1 basketball fan outside of Clemson, and the question posed of whether or not that record was successful or unsuccessful for a basketball program, we all know what those answers would be.
Last season's extension was designed to allow a more affordable buyout this year than we've seen in any of the prior six plus years heading in. To me, this signifies that a heightened expectation was in place to show legitimate progress. I believe the door is open at this point in time. We will know soon enough.
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Orange Blooded [4448]
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Underachieved.
Mar 10, 2022, 10:55 AM
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The ACC was / is absolutely horrible this year. Under a normal ACC year we would have been worse.
It’s time for Brownell to be let go.
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110%er [8538]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 11:09 AM
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Had Tyson and Hall not been hurt, we might have won a game or 2 more but this was not a quality team that could win the ACC.
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CU Medallion [58419]
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If the question is "should we have finished 7th or 8th
Mar 10, 2022, 12:05 PM
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instead of 10th?", it's a question I'm not interested in, and it only reinforces my certainty that a change is needed. Think about it - It's a preposterous conversation. The conversation should be "This is ########! I know we aren't Duke or UNC, and we can't expect to be among the ACC basketball elite most years, but to be 'okay' with 10th place in any way is unacceptable. Especially in year 12, no way Brownell gets a pass.".
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Orange Blooded [4559]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 12:21 PM
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This team has done exactly what a Brad Brownell team does virtually every season, which is finish at or slightly above .500. At this point it’s a matter of whether you’re willing to be OK with being mediocre, or if you are willing to risk being better, even if means possibly being worse than the status quo of .500. At this point it is what it is. My give a d@mn busted regarding the Brad Brownell regime years ago. I still root for them because I love Clemson, but I’ve learned to expect nothing.
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All-TigerNet [11486]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 12:24 PM
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I say undeachieve. But I also, if Brad comes back, makes the NCAAT next season, and in two years he ends up 17-16 again, does he comes back then?
Eventually you have to end Groundhog day and make a change. Why not now?
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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underachieve, YES
Mar 10, 2022, 12:40 PM
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Was the worst ACC in decades and maybe ever. Then Clemson had the most talented team in many years. We have a great player in Hall. (While he definitely got better - think about if only BB had played him more last year).
With all that - and winning the late season games against the bottom of the ACC, we still finished 10th.
Starting the season, we lost to st Bonny- who ended up 4th in their league. And we lost to West Virginia - who ended up last in their conference.
So, yes, underachieve.
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110%er [6075]
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This was the worst the ACC has ever been and we still weren't competitive
Mar 10, 2022, 12:46 PM
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After 12 years, that is unacceptable.
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All-In [27342]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 12:49 PM
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The team at the end of the year beat expectations of the team at the beginning. However the end result was pretty spot on.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: 17-16, 8-12, 10th place. Did this team underachieve,
Mar 10, 2022, 3:49 PM
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Grossly underachieved. There were at least 7 games he choked away, the most obvious being BC at home. Last night, our shortest defender on one of Tech's best 3-point shooters and no defensive pressure bringing the ball up? You could see it coming. BB has to go unless you love mediocrity and an overall losing record in the ACC. Clemson can do better.
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