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All-In [44054]
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I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 12:01 AM
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not winning the Heisman is complete horse$h!t.
He literally checks all of the boxes:
-best player in college football -led his team to conference championship and playoff berth -team leader on and off the field
PLUS, in this crazy year, he was a major reason why there was even a season. He also played a leadership role in the racial issues that took center stage. Heck, he even HAD COVID, recovered from it, and continued to lead his team.
How anyone else could win is beyond me.
Deshaun was robbed, and Trevor was robbed even more considering the situation.
I feel like we say it every year now, but the Heisman has become a joke.
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All-In [26036]
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Re: I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 12:14 AM
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Amen
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All-In [40353]
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Awoman***
Jan 6, 2021, 6:47 AM
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CU Medallion [53829]
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Amoran......***
Jan 6, 2021, 9:21 AM
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CU Medallion [52463]
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Re: I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 12:22 AM
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Maybe he should have asked OSU how to use COVID to his advantage.
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CU Guru [1150]
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Re: I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 12:35 AM
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They should rename it the ESPN trophy.
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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Agree...and we actually have some geniuses on here who think
Jan 6, 2021, 2:51 AM
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Smith should have gotten it.
If you polled every college coach in the country, asked them to pick one player who played this year, to lead their team for the coming season, 95 per cent of them would pick Trevor!
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All-In [27344]
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Re: Agree...and we actually have some geniuses on here who think
Jan 6, 2021, 6:52 AM
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And that’s your major problem. The vote no longer lies in the ones who matter. Heck I bet if you polled just the Heisman winners TL would have won. Too many media votes. Too much bias
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CU Guru [1236]
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It's simple
Jan 6, 2021, 7:23 AM
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how many games would Alabama have lost without Smith? The answer is none. They would have been just fine without him. How many games would Clemson have lost without Trevor? The answer is one, the biggest one on the schedule, and how do we know? Because when we played them again, with Trevor, we SMOKED them. So there ya go.
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CU Guru [1236]
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Also...
Jan 6, 2021, 7:29 AM
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eSECpn didn't even try to be subtle about it, I mean the 2 Alabama guys were sitting with the trophy between them during the whole show and Smith had a huge room full of people watching him virtually. None of the other ones had a trophy sitting there just in case they happened to win. They obviously already knew ahead of time and had been given a heads up. What a crock of crap.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Also...
Jan 6, 2021, 8:24 AM
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You wanted them to mail a trophy to the other 3 guys and make them send it back afterwards?
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CU Guru [1236]
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No, and I know this is crazy, but
Jan 6, 2021, 2:16 PM
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maybe they could have not displayed the trophy until the winner was announced, insane suggestion, right???
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Legend [17918]
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Well, I agree but this is partly Dabo's fault as well
Jan 6, 2021, 7:35 AM
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pulling Trevor out of games early and not allowing him to run up the stats hurt him for sure this year. Now, I agree with getting other players time to play - preparing them for the day they will be leading the team. But it hurt Trevor this year. That is the biggest elephant in the room.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Well, I agree but this is partly Dabo's fault as well
Jan 6, 2021, 8:45 AM
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I actually don't think that was much of a factor this year. If you go back and look, there was really only a couple games where he didn't play into at least the first part of the 4th. He ended up attempting only 23 fewer passes this season than Mac Jones for instance.
I think Lawrence still got a ton of respect from the voters. He attempted 23 more passes than Jones, but had nearly 900 fewer yards, and 12 fewer touchdowns(5 fewer if you include rushing touchdowns). That's with Jones playing in 2 more games than Lawrence. So on one hand the two additional games helped Jones in the amount of yards and touchdowns, but the fact that Lawrence still ended up attempting more passes goes against the whole "his stats aren't as high because he left games early" narrative.
Unless you can show that Smith was commonly still in games with under 5 minutes to go with Bama up by 3+ scores then I don't see taking Lawrence out early in blowouts as a factor.
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CU Medallion [64593]
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The bottom line is...
Jan 6, 2021, 7:43 AM
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the Heisman voters punished TL for missing two games due to COVID.
It's just that simple.
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All-In [48371]
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Re: The bottom line is...
Jan 6, 2021, 8:10 AM
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I respect all your post, you and hunt's point above, I disagree. I don't think it mattered what his numbers were. I honestly believe if devonte had split his numbers, the all out push would have been for Jones...
Could have been an argument had he played and won the first ND game and we'd been undefeated but I still think they'd latched onto someone else.
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CU Medallion [64593]
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TL was the Heisman frontrunner until his positive COVID test
Jan 6, 2021, 8:14 AM
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As a result, he missed two games and fell to third or fourth on the list.
Pretty compelling evidence IMO.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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Thanks to FSU, he actually missed three games.***
Jan 6, 2021, 8:48 AM
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CU Medallion [64593]
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Good point. I actually kinda forgot about that one***
Jan 6, 2021, 8:52 AM
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All-In [48371]
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Re: Good point. I actually kinda forgot about that one***
Jan 6, 2021, 9:11 AM
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Ok, point taken. Won me over on that argument. Although, I did go back and check and Jones and Smith along with trask were in the blowout games late into the 4th qtr.
As others have posted in other threads. Our supporting cast around out two best players were not exactly what I'd call exceptional.
Perhaps David hale recent article has some merit.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: Good point. I actually kinda forgot about that one***
Jan 6, 2021, 9:39 AM
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What games were Jones and Smith in deep into the 4th quarter in blowouts? How does that compare to how many games Lawrence played into the 2nd half of the 4th?
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All-In [27374]
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Re: The bottom line is...
Jan 6, 2021, 9:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: The bottom line is... ] |
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The bottom line to me is ...... I suspect that many who are on the voting committee put very little, if any thought into their vote I suspect that many just look at the numbers and vote accordingly. At best some may watch the tv guys and base their votes on what they hear. I am not sure how many actually vote but I suspect that there are hundreds.
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CU Medallion [64593]
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There are 870 Heisman voters in addition to
Jan 6, 2021, 9:19 AM
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the 56 living Heisman winners who also vote.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I think this is probably true. Whether intentional or not
Jan 6, 2021, 8:16 AM
[ in reply to The bottom line is... ] |
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i think his absence (missing the ND game in particular) did play a factor in the voting.
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All-In [48371]
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Re: I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 7:50 AM
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Well stated and laid out. And blackriver as others have pointed out too, who would have lost etc. I know this is a same year trophy but there's no way you cannot take his entire body of work into account.
it's totally underestimated how much his "we want to play" movement did for college football. Yes, I know a lot of players were calling for change, player insurance, different things that really stalled (Pac 10) stuff. It wasn't until Trevor and his Clemson brothers started a movement that had realistic goals. I mean, did Devonte get a frickin call from the POTUS? A call from the POTUS supporting your cause should alone win you something. That ultimately lead to the b1g and the p12 even having short seasons...
So yea Justin, you got ur revenge on us this year but you wouldn't had the opportunity had it not been for Trevor.
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CU Guru [1237]
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Re: I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 8:04 AM
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Why did all of you watch the show?
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All-In [48371]
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Re: I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 8:14 AM
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Can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't watch a minute of it. Too busy watching my tigers ball out on the court!
I posted 3 weeks ago that ds won.
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110%er [5264]
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All-In [44054]
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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if DW4 had numbers like Lamar in 2016 and didn't get it.....
Jan 6, 2021, 8:19 AM
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then we'd be screamin' horse$#it as well
if Gallman had numbers like Henry in 2015 and didn't get it we'd do the same.
Smith deserved it, TL missed 2 games that likely cost him. TL also had his playoff game to make one final pitch for himself and regardless of the reasons he didn't do what smith was able to do.
it sounds like sour grapes, plus it's funny how "the heisman is a sham" when our player doesn't win it, but yet we want it so bad for our players.
Honestly, the #1 REASON why we haven't had a Heisman winner over the last 5ish years is b/c Dabo pulls our starters early, it is what it is. It's a statistical award and always has been.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Lamar was absolutely a worthy Heisman winner
Jan 6, 2021, 8:36 AM
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He put up ridiculous numbers that year and put that entire offense on his back for 2 seasons. He was in the top 10 nationally in rushing yards as a quarterback while averaging 6 yards per carry (keep in mind that sack yardage is deducted from a QBs rushing yardage and YPC in college). Oh and he also put up passing numbers that, effiency-wise, were very close to Watson's.
I'm not sure i agree about Derrick Henry though. I think i would've voted him 3rd in 2015 behind McCaffery and Watson. Henry had great stat accumulation in 2015 because he carried the ball 395 times which is completely ridiculous and borderline irresponsible by Nick Saban and company. Durability is and has always been Henry's best attribute as a player.
But if you dig a little deeper you will see that McCaffery had 2000 rushing yards (just 200 behind Henry) while averaging more YPC than Henry, and also added 600 yards receiving and 1100 yards as a returner. Henry only ran the ball. He returned 0 kicks and caught 11 passes all season. McCaffery was the better player in 2015.
Also that year Watson had 4100 yards passing and 1100 yards rushing and was very efficient at both. 2015 Watson > 2016 Watson. It should have been Watson vs McCaffery for the Heisman that year.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I can buy that.....
Jan 6, 2021, 8:43 AM
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main point being there were other very worthy candidates in those years. Seeing fans act like our player deserves the heisman just because they play at clemson is asinine.
The bottom-line to me is if DABO keeps his starters in a little longer, then we have a couple of winners already, but he's stated many times that's not the goal and he's not going to do it.
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All-In [44054]
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Lawrence doesn’t deserve it because he plays for Clemson.
Jan 6, 2021, 4:06 PM
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He deserves it because he is the best player in college football. Isn’t that what the Heisman is for?
If you’re starting a team from scratch, and you can choose any of the Heisman finalists this year, who do you choose? You choose Trevor, and so would any coach in college football, including Saban.
Do you have a different criteria?
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110%er [5264]
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CU Medallion [64593]
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He also ...
Jan 6, 2021, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to Lamar was absolutely a worthy Heisman winner ] |
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lost the head-to-head match-up against Watson during that 2016 season and had a major meltdown toward the end of the season that resulted in Lamarville losing their last three games, while Watson was leading Clemson to a Conference and a National Championship.
There is absolutely no question as far as I am concerned. Watson was the best player in college football that year.
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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You are absolutely right! I would not have minded one bit if
Jan 7, 2021, 8:52 PM
[ in reply to Lamar was absolutely a worthy Heisman winner ] |
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McCaffery had won it, but there is no way Henry should've finished higher than third!
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All-In [44054]
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I don’t have a problem with Lamar Jackson winning it.
Jan 6, 2021, 4:10 PM
[ in reply to if DW4 had numbers like Lamar in 2016 and didn't get it..... ] |
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He had a great year. One could argue that his team didn’t have the kind of success typically seen for a Heisman winner, but a fair argument can be made that he was the best player in college football that year.
Also, Trevor’s playoff game had nothing to do with it. Votes were due before Christmas. Nice try though.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I don't completely agree with this logic
Jan 6, 2021, 8:22 AM
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Best and most deserving are not the same thing. We hear about this all the time with the team rankings, and the vast majority of Tigernet posters are usually on the "most deserving" side. Was Trevor Lawrence the best player in CFB this year? I really believe so. Does that mean he should automatically win the Heisman? No it does not.
It's basically the same argument that everyone here was making against Ohio State being in the playoff. There was never any doubt in my mind this year that OSU was one of the four best teams. I think that would've been true whether they played 13 games or 1 game. The issue was whether or not they deserved to be in the playoff, and it's not the same argument.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: I don't completely agree with this logic
Jan 6, 2021, 8:27 AM
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Agreed. It’s like some people want the Heisman to go to whoever ends up being the #1 pick in the draft every year.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Ladies and Gentlemen please welcome 2013 Heisman Trophy
Jan 6, 2021, 8:39 AM
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winner Eric Fisher!
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All-In [44054]
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No, I don’t care who the #1 pick in the draft will be.
Jan 6, 2021, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: I don't completely agree with this logic ] |
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I feel that the Heisman should go to the best player who also displays the proper work ethic and leadership. That’s what the trophy purports to do.
I’m not saying that stats don’t matter, because they do and they should. But seasons should also be looked at in context. Trevor missing time because his had already led his team to a dominant win by the third quarter shouldn’t be held against him. Neither should being held out due to COVID.
It’s not like his stats were bad. He didn’t have a low completion percentage or throw a lot of interceptions.
If it’s supposed to be based on stats, then they need to redefine that as the goal of the award. And if they are going to do that, then they should stop making team success a criteria. Right?!?
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CU Medallion [65537]
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Why Judge, such flowery language one minute into the new
Jan 6, 2021, 8:31 AM
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day! But, you echoed my sentiments exactly. If you were looking for the best player in college football, which is what the Heisman started out doing, Trevor, as you said, checks every on field and off field box. But, modern sportswriters don't like to have to think, so they just fall back on stats, and don't look at the whole picture. If they did, Peyton Manning, Deshaun Watson, and Trevor Lawrence would all have Heismans. I am sure that Trevor, just as Deshaun did, will win some of the major QB awards. Deshaun won nearly all of them EXCEPT the Heisman, the year that Lemeur Jackson won it. But, it still won't satisfy.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: I’m sure this has already been posted, but Trevor Lawrence
Jan 6, 2021, 8:58 AM
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To me it's tricky. We're obviously huge Clemson fans, and huge fans of Lawrence as a result. I think we can all agree that Lawrence is great, and very likely the best player in the country. On the other hand, the best player doesn't always end up winning the Heisman award, or the MVP award in other sports each year. I look at the Heisman as the college football version of the MVP award. If the award always went to the best player in the sport then Lebron James would win the MVP every year in the NBA.
I get that it could be broken down into concentrating on the "most valuable" part of the equation, but the actual results have to matter as well. We're all upset now, but imagine if Rodgers put up the season Smith did, and that Lawrence played for another team. Imagine the reaction here in that situation if Lawrence won the award based purely on his performance in past years coupled with him being considered the best player in college football based largely on his upcoming draft status.
I find it hard to believe that the reaction on here to that situation would be agreeing with the decision. People complain of bias, but it seems those same people are upset that bias didn't allow Lawrence to win the award for him even though his stats didn't match up to the others. It stinks he missed the two games because of COVID, and then a 3rd game due to FSU, but you can't argue that Ohio State didn't belong in the CFP because playing games matters, and then argue that Lawrence shouldn't be punished for fewer stats due to missing games.
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Oculus Spirit [83131]
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All 4 candidates deserved it.***
Jan 6, 2021, 9:19 AM
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110%er [5264]
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Good ruling , Judge.....the Heisman Committee
Jan 6, 2021, 9:27 AM
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lost me the year when they did not even invite CJ to attend , then the whole Deshawn fiasco , and now this with trevor...he was the face of college football, and he did not seek it..
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All-TigerNet [11067]
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Heisman doesn't want tuna with great taste...***
Jan 6, 2021, 9:47 AM
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