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Replies: 24
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Was Dabo Right?
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Nov 2, 2025, 8:56 AM
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We know that there is something off about this team. We should not have the talent we have, and this record. We can't say it is a depth issue, because our first quarters for each game have been bad, except the first quarter vs UNC (without that game, we have been outscored in the first quarter 58-20). If it was a depth issue, we would not have bad first quarters, right? And we know that the only real coaching change from last year was hiring Allen, which was lauded as the best hire in years for Dabo!
We also know that our defense is loaded with talent. And that our defense is much worse than last year! So, this aspect of our team is the most suspect of the cause of our downfall. Over 40 points a game given up in the last two HOME games?
We also know that the OL has not done much with the talent on it. We had our best running game of the year yesterday, and that was 175 yds! The benchmark for winning games was 200 yards running each game, remember? Sacks against us are up. Does this mean that Matt Luke is not doing his job? But, from most posts here, they say Luke is the only coach that needs to be kept!
We all know that Dabo put off hitting the portal as long as possible. We also know that ALL OF OUR RECRUITS before last season came to Clemson KNOWING that if they did GOOD (played to their potential), they would play and not be pushed out by transfers coming in from the portal.
So, maybe the problem with the team is the fact that Dabo brought in transfers last season, and played them over guys who were already here? We can rest assured that is what happened to FSU last year, and those players came in knowing that they could be replaced. But our players this year just appear to have lost one step in each play (not "playing bad", but not playing good either). Many of them appear to be going through the motions without emotions.
Is this what Dabo was trying to tell us the last few years about trust of the players? Is this why our de-commit rate has gone up the last two years? Something has changed, and the only real change that has definitely happened is the use of the portal, at last! If this is what the problem is, nobody would be talking about it, right?
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Oculus Spirit [43626]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:06 AM
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I get your point but it’s not like we went “All In” to the portal. We really just dipped our toes and seems they are fitting in well. Doesn’t explain poor coverage in secondary, poor tackling, poor OL play. I think mostly unrelated.
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:13 AM
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But, notice that the things you pointed to are things on the defense...and with the same players, and what everyone here thinks is a better defensive coordinator, the drop in defensevie play is unexplainable, right?
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Gridiron Giant [15619]
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I can argue that the offense has regressed as well
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:30 AM
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Our line, which showed some improvement last year, has floundered this year against moderate competition. Cade was tight/lost to start the season. Wide receivers struggled as well. Smith did not play to start out.
We will more than likely never truly know what has happened this year.
When your staff headcount has grown at a fast rate, making sure the "message" translates up and down the ranks is a challenge and takes time, adjustment and training. When adversity hits, cracks and staff divisions form much easier. This is only magnified if your new staff have little to no management experience.
I think what we are seeing on the field is a result of a lot of conflicting voices coming from the coaching heirarchy. Hence the confusion. Conn vs Allen yesterday was just an example.
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Paw Warrior [4919]
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Re: I can argue that the offense has regressed as well
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Nov 2, 2025, 12:07 PM
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You hit on the central issue to me, and that is staff bloat. We have created a juggernaut of head count and payroll with goodness knows how many internal politics issues and conflicting goals and missions. We are still trying to run a factory producing educated, morally sound young men that also play football and other teams are converting to revolving-door sports clubs that do not get so involved in the personal lives of players.
I want to believe there is a middle ground but we are clearly far to the wrong side of that right now.
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Orange Blooded [2281]
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Everyone criticizing Dabo wants him to fire a lot of coaches and hire new ones
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Nov 2, 2025, 10:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: Was Dabo Right? ] |
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But we hired a great coach in Tom Allen and the word on the street was that he implemented his system and simplified everything … which could be a great thing.
But playing instinctively in that new system takes time to become the de facto reaction even for great players during a real game with live bullies flying.
Having a new “lighter” system sounds good and we’re hearing that it looks great in practice. However, playing an official game is completely different from practice and players can’t just forget all their former tendencies and do everything at top level in their new scheme overnight.
When the pressure is on and there are being-bang plays, players instincts take over and their multiple years of doing things like they did in the old scheme are more likely to emerge, which may no longer match the less than 1 season schemes we’re playing now.
It takes time to turn a ship … and fans need to recognize and accept that fact.
And Dabo could fire half the coaches, and some fans would love that, but they certainly would slam Dabo and say he’s lost it when playing in the new schemes introduced by the new coaches didn’t gel immediately.
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CU Guru [1520]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: Was Dabo Right? ] |
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Our Defense is worse than it was last year but our defense was still pretty bad last year..gave up 200 rushing yards in 4 times…Wes rightly got the boot!
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Gridiron Giant [15619]
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Interesting thesis
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:15 AM
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From all accounts, teammates have really embraced the transfers, particularly their work ethic. If there were 10-20 transfers, perhaps. The only portal transfer with significant reps before yesterday was Heldt. I agree that something is significantly off, but do not believe it is because of 3 portal players.
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Orange Beast [6559]
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Held and Brown are only 2 guys
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:25 AM
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Who are playing with any kind of intensity and energy… some may add Woodaz, but he’s out of control and makes WAY too many mistakes.
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Heisman Winner [83828]
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Heldt.
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:22 PM
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His name is Heldt..
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Re: Interesting thesis
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Interesting thesis ] |
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But, it would not matter how many were brought in, just that Dabo started doing it, after the players did not expect it. And, the one that actually became a starter would exacerbate the problem, since there were "good" players here in that position...
It is not like I was not glad Dabo brought in transfers...I said so in the first post with the comment of him "finally" hitting the portal...this is just a thought that came up when trying to find out why the players are not winning, when the coaching has not changed much, and realizing depth was not the problem due to first quarter results...
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Gridiron Giant [15619]
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I understand what you are saying
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:43 AM
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Each recruiting cycle before the portal involved bringing in players who would possibly start over players who had been in the program and paid their dues. Think about DW4 and TL16 taking over for players who were popular with their teammates.
I think the problem is staff related. There are too many competing, and not necessarily aligned voices, coming at the players. The confusion I see out on the field is mind numbing.
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Re: I understand what you are saying
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:57 AM
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I agree there is problems with the staff, but the biggest change on the staff was DC, and nobody seems to want to say that is the problem. To imply this coaching problem is worse this year would then point to Allen!?! DW4 and TL16 were much better players and the team knew it, so don't agree with that answer. Those are normal attrition problems, not portal problems.
In the past, our players would work above coaching problems...We have some great players on this team, and they are playing worse than last year.
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Gridiron Giant [15619]
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I am referring to all of the support staff
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Nov 2, 2025, 10:09 AM
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That room has grown significantly. There are more voices competing for attention with the players and I don't believe the voices are all aligned. The players are not exclusively coached by Allen, Riley, Luke, Conn, Boulware, etc. The Conn vs Allen episode is the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot below the waterline that is not good.
The players are pros now, and have been for a long time. If 3 portal players coming in has ruined chemistry, then I believe we have a much, much bigger problem. That would indicate that the players we have are not fit for top level competition and have very, very low ceilings.
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Gridiron Giant [15619]
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Re: BTW, I appreciate the civil discussion
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Nov 2, 2025, 6:32 PM
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Yes, thanks for the debate. Sorry about the delay...packed up the camper and boat and came to Lake Greenwood since the post. Just got in from a few minutes of fishing...Sure to have a good week at the campground! Always do, whether we catch fish or not!
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Asst Coach [859]
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I judge whether Dabo is right based on performance
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Nov 2, 2025, 9:26 AM
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On the field
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Orange Blooded [2281]
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IMO thats too simplistic a view
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Nov 2, 2025, 10:15 AM
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… and ignores the complexity of changing major components of our game … in this case, the entire defensive scheme.
Even great players like we have need time in a new scheme before it looks great in a game in all situations.
Venables’ defense didn’t become stellar overnight and we shouldn’t expect that to happen immediately with our new defensive coordinator either.
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Top TigerNet [28419]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
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Nov 2, 2025, 10:17 AM
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We’ve basically played one guy and I don’t think the receivers are upset about having TS in the room. So no, Dabo wasn’t right about this or much of anything else lately.
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
Nov 2, 2025, 6:36 PM
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It does not matter if they played or not, the simple fact that Dabo changed from no portal to portal, is enough to then tell others he is not loyal.
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Top TigerNet [28419]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
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Nov 2, 2025, 7:14 PM
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I think you are reaching for something that isn’t there. Don’t forget, we offered 3 linemen two years ago. We didn’t get any of them but we were in the market and that didn’t seem to upset anyone.
I don’t count those grad school QBs we took as really using the portal.
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
Nov 3, 2025, 12:34 AM
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I am only trying to find out why NFL caliber players like our first string, are not playing like they should. This was just one thing that crossed my mind. We know that it has affected other teams in this way, and while our numbers of portal players were much smaller, it was after having players that were recruited with the knowledge that Dabo was not using the portal (not at hardly any other school)...and Dabo saying for years you have to trust your recruits.
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Game Day Hero [4433]
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Re: Was Dabo Right?
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Nov 3, 2025, 12:40 AM
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I think this is the best post I’ve read on here today. These are great points. What Dabo needs to do is put the best 22 players he has on the field and that is his job. No more promises. His job is to win football games and he must tailor his beliefs to accomplish that sole objective. Otherwise I think he might fail and then he’s not any use to any of these young people.
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Game Day Hero [4192]
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A LOT of good points here and it paints a very bleak future for this program
Nov 3, 2025, 12:51 AM
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..I honestly feel that Clemson’s best option is to MOVE DOWN to DIVISION II.
Get OUT of this unregulated bidding war for players. It’s as exhausting for the fans as it is for the coaches.
I’d honestly enjoy watching Clemson play Division II more than watching the “death by a thousand cuts” for the program that we have loved most of our lives.
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Hall of Famer [8188]
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Re: A LOT of good points here and it paints a very bleak future for this program
Nov 3, 2025, 11:40 AM
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Some of us are old enough to remember the late 60s to 1970s, when we had two winning seasons out of 10 years, the best record was 7-4...no, we have not hit bottom, and no, we do not have a bleak future.
Our last losing season was 1998, at 3-8. That streak is definitely looking like it might end. But look where we got after that...Us old timers know seasons like this are always possible, and in today's paid player days, many teams go through this...Penn State is probably worse than us, and they were ranked at #2 coming in. The coots (#13), Fla (#15), Kansas St (#17) are all teams doing poorly, while some teams that have not been good are doing great (Indiana, for example).
Things are kooky for many teams. I blame the pay to play problems on this, and the team "psychic problems" due to portal and transfer rules. Players are more in control, but they don't have the ability to discern what is best for themselves.
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Replies: 24
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