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Orange Immortal [65756]
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$15.00 min wage advocates . . .
Jul 26, 2015, 1:15 PM
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When high school kids and people with zero experience or training enter the workforce at $15.00 per hour, what happens to all of the people, many with years and years in the workforce, many college educated, who currently make less than or just above $15.00/hr? There may be a warehouse worker who has been with a company for 15 years who now makes $15.00/hr. How does a company fairly compensate him when workers with zero experience or time on the job start coming in at the same pay? What about someone with a college degree and a few years on the job who is at $18.00/hr? Right now they are making at least double entry level; suddenly entry level employees will be making almost as much as them. This will be the case in many industries, and certainly many government jobs. If these people do get huge raises to maintain some scale of equity and fairness, then what about their managers and higher paid employees who will suddenly be making relatively less? Where would the wage escalation end?
The question for advocates of a $15.00 min wage then becomes, do wages go up dramatically across the board, at every level, or does everyone pretty much get screwed except for the entry level worker?
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Clemson Icon [24233]
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It's emotional idealism. That's it.
Jul 26, 2015, 1:22 PM
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People who are only thinking about making sure everyone has enough money to comfortably live are not as concerned with what is good for the system. Practical arguments that show how more people will be better off don't tug on the heart strings.
Classic trees over the forest situation.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108925]
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Minimum wage is $25/hr in Switzerland.
Jul 26, 2015, 8:43 PM
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The cost of a Big Mac in Switzerland is $7.54.
The cost of a Big Mac in the US is $4.80.
Guess who sits atop the Big Mac index? Yup. Money is a zero sum game really. McDonalds is already going broke (losing money) keeping their Big Mac at $4.80 today with a $7.25 minimum wage in the US.
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National Champion [7763]
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They also pay 40% income tax. So there's that.***
Jul 27, 2015, 3:36 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [35140]
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Corporate rate in Switzerland is not 40%...
Jul 27, 2015, 8:01 PM
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I don't remember exactly what it is, but the company I looked at doing a joint venture with out of Switzerland was paying a lower corporate tax rate than we were in the US.
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National Champion [7763]
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It's 17.9%, I was talking about individuals.***
Jul 28, 2015, 8:54 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [35140]
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Ahh..thought you were talking about the rate McD's would....
Jul 28, 2015, 9:11 AM
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pay.
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National Champion [7763]
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So it's all relative I guess..
Jul 28, 2015, 9:35 AM
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Yeah.. you get $25 an hour, but the government gets $10 of it...
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Oculus Spirit [43176]
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they all get a raise to $15/hr too!
Jul 26, 2015, 2:31 PM
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just like that we will bring up all the poor people to a living wage and we will win the war on poverty!
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Your questions show just how brainwashed you are...
Jul 26, 2015, 2:59 PM
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Somebody "with years and years in the workforce, many college educated, who currently make less than or just above $15.00/hr"... Is that how you think it should be, stagnant wage increases and subsistence level employment after years of working for someone? 15 years and making $15.00/ hr. ? I guess that guy in management with the shirt/tie and the A/C office who's getting the regular increases and yearly bonuses was WAY more valuable to the operation than anybody in that warehouse... BS. The proposal for $15/hr. pay scale is to phase it in over several years and would only be applicable to full-time (40+hrs./wk.) employees. "Huge raises...?" The standard wage scale for labor nationally against inflation hasn't risen since the '80s... As to managers, maybe it's their turn to see what all the 'labor' has been living under for the last 30 years instead of thinking they're part of the CEO clique who's AXX they've been kissing...
Your last question is all-telling..."What about me...?" Why don't you question the CEO stock options and annual bonuses vs. questioning a raise for the least appreciated in labor? It's simple...Don't make waves for the 'brass' or it could be your 'a$$'....
Message was edited by: SOLOS®
Message was edited by: SOLOS®
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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You're the one who's brainwashed.
Jul 26, 2015, 4:53 PM
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In a perfect, make believe world, everybody should have everything they could possibly want. Why stop at $15.00/hr if we are dreaming? Why not $16.00, or $17.00, or $20.00? ####, we'd all be better off if we made more than we do now, so why not make it a law? Why not make it a law that everybody gets $100,000.00, or a million? Just wave that magic wand and make it so!
That still doesn't answer my question though: If the guy who's got years on the job now makes $15.00/hr (twice entry level), is he going to continue to make twice entry level and go up to $30.00/hr when min wage is increased to $15.00/hr? Will all employees up the line get the equivalent of $15.00/hr raises, or will the ware house worker simply make as much as the manager or the VP?
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Well I can't fix stupid.... and I did answer your question.***
Jul 26, 2015, 5:11 PM
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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I disagree - there is still hope for you.***
Jul 26, 2015, 5:29 PM
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Maybe if you saw my portfolio and bank account you would
Jul 26, 2015, 5:37 PM
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know... I'm GOOD! I'm more worried about my son and his contemporaries than the wife and me. You make it sound like someone is stepping on your toes when they question the status quo... You that good?
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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How "good" you and I are is irrelevant, but congrats all the
Jul 26, 2015, 7:12 PM
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same on being really GOOD. Just be sure not to keep more of it than you need to live.
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Gridiron Giant [15546]
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Re: How "good" you and I are is irrelevant, but congrats all the
Jul 26, 2015, 7:33 PM
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The CEO of Starbucks has said a one size fits all minimum wage isn't good.
The far left likes to focus on the big bad billionaires and wall street types while ignoring many of these minimum wage jobs are in businesses with small profit margins. I know many that own small grocery stores, florists, small warehouses that aren't exactly wealthy.
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Gridiron Giant [15546]
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Re: How "good" you and I are is irrelevant, but congrats all the
Jul 26, 2015, 7:42 PM
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There is no doubt that many businesses can afford to pay a little more.
Example being a McDonald's located at Times Square but what about that independent McDonald's located in a low traffic area in South Carolina that gets a 10th of the business the one in Times Square gets?
What happens? Does that independent owner decide to shut down? Decides he isn't investing in any more low traffic areas therefore less jobs?
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Maybe he could move to Canada and be closer to the HQ...***
Jul 26, 2015, 7:44 PM
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Gridiron Giant [15546]
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Re: Maybe he could move to Canada and be closer to the HQ...***
Jul 26, 2015, 7:46 PM
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Whatever it is, it doesn't change the fact that not all business owners are billionaires or wall street, etc.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Don't I know... but 0.1 % have as much as the bottom 90%.
Jul 26, 2015, 7:55 PM
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That capitalist pyramid is getting sharply pointed at the top....
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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Gridiron Giant [15546]
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Re: Apparently that franchisee is expected to make less money
Jul 26, 2015, 8:04 PM
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Yep. But some of them barely turn a profit now.
I know a man that runs a small local IGA store. We've become good friends over the years so I've seen some things to know that he barely earns much more than me per year.
And he works about twice the hours week after week then I do. If he isn't at the store, sometimes he is at "home" writing/ drawing up the ad for the following weeks.
I couldn't do it.
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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Of course - and what effect would a $15.00 min wage have
Jul 26, 2015, 8:34 PM
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on his business?
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Tiger Titan [50675]
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your answer is no
Jul 26, 2015, 5:51 PM
[ in reply to You're the one who's brainwashed. ] |
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those on the job for years are screwed
it's already happening
not at $15 but at $10
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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+1... and 'Feel the Bern'.***
Jul 26, 2015, 6:02 PM
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110%er [3609]
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Increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.***
Jul 26, 2015, 5:57 PM
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Just the reverse. It puts more expendable income into the
Jul 26, 2015, 6:05 PM
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market and creates MORE jobs... I guess you think that Billionaire with his PAPER WORTH makes a difference...? Keep sucking up.
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110%er [3609]
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So labor does not obey the laws of supply and demand. Those
Jul 26, 2015, 6:12 PM
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laws apply to everything else in the economy except labor.
Take your argument to its logical conclusion. If paying higher wages puts expendable income into the market and creates jobs, all the government has to do is to legislate high wages. Pass a law and it's done. We all live in prosperity because the government said so.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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...or corporations which enjoyed subsidies, developed
Jul 26, 2015, 6:19 PM
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their products here utilizing our infrastructure, market their products here, and most of their Board members reside here, can off-shore their jobs, off-shore their profits, not pay taxes, reward their execs exorbitantly 'internationally', and continue to buy politicians to enact "those laws"... Labor only obeys the laws of survival.
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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Yep - $15.00 min wage will fix that.
Jul 26, 2015, 6:57 PM
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While Jack Welch certainly could do with a few billion less to insure his workers got a min of $15.00/hr, the impact will be much different for smaller, privately owned businesses. I've worked for larger corporations (including GE) as well as smaller, privately owned businesses. It's a completely different ballgame. I know of many smaller businesses that for a fact, right or wrong, will simply hire fewer people if the min goes to $15.00. Some may even let people go.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Ya, that's been GE's argument from the start. Actually,
Jul 26, 2015, 7:41 PM
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the $15/hr. proposed would be phased in over several years and only apply to full-time (40+hrs./wk) workers... There would be time for both adjustment and assessment... Taxing the Jack Welches of the world should be the priority...
Message was edited by: SOLOS®
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of GE workers
Jul 26, 2015, 8:06 PM
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already make $15.00/hr, even entry level, so I'm not sure GE is a good example for your argument for a $15.00 min wage. Now, if your ticked because Jack Welch and other CEOs make so much, then that's a different argument altogether. I see an increase of the min wage as having little impact on that.
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Gridiron Giant [15546]
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Re: I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of GE workers
Jul 26, 2015, 8:11 PM
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Average salary for GE employees is well above $15 per hour.
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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I know it is, and I'm pretty sure that even what is
Jul 26, 2015, 8:36 PM
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considered entry level is even more than $15.00.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Yea, those open-end government contracts, subsidies, and
Jul 26, 2015, 8:42 PM
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not having to pay taxes allow for that... You rail against government when GE is one of, if not the largest, pup suckling the Fed teet. Of course, let's not discuss the waste and corruption... Instead, let's deflect about the 'small business owner'... Broken frickin' record.
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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What do subsidies and corruption have to do with the
Jul 26, 2015, 8:48 PM
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min wage and the impact it will have?
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Heisman Winner [81180]
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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I don't see how the $15.00 impacts the billionaires
Jul 26, 2015, 8:46 PM
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significantly, but I do see how it negatively impacts small businesses and the ability of unskilled workers to enter the workforce. We can raise the min wage, and Jack Welch will still be a billionaire. He won't care.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102991]
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Putting it to the hardworking 'RICH,' is the goal of this...
Jul 26, 2015, 7:16 PM
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ridiculous proposal.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Yeah, don't think of taxing those Banksters with their
Jul 26, 2015, 7:52 PM
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warehouses full of servers running algorithms to manipulate trades in thousandths of a second... That doesn't affect 401Ks or IRAs or pension funds or bonds, at least not as much as the Pyramid scheme that they pulled in 2007 and got bailed out for...
Message was edited by: SOLOS®
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108925]
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It's a catch 22 for a lot of comapnies
Jul 26, 2015, 8:35 PM
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Raise the minimum wage to $15 and you naturally want to reduce the work force. Do that, though, and you will have to increase hours. Increase hours, then you run smack into Obamacare. Most companies will do a combination of laying off workers, if they can keep the hours down for those left, and/or raise prices to the consumer. A mix of all the above will happen to different degrees at most companies.
It does really suck for the person who started 20 years ago at $4.25 an hour, worked his way up to $20-$25 an hour, only to have snot-nosed kids coming in now with zero experience making what it took you a decade to earn. Companies, I would imagine, would want to keep their more experienced workers onboard and happy. To do that they will have to give them some kind of raise, at the expense of eliminating some entry level jobs. Most of the experienced workers already are full time and paid for and are full time (40hr/wk), so they will also be getting longer hours because they already are stuck for health insurance and have to find some way to pay for it.
All together, this just increases the wealth of the established worker and makes it that much harder to enter the job market as a kid and climb the ladder.
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Orange Immortal [65756]
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Either way, it's a cost to the business, and unless somebody
Jul 26, 2015, 8:41 PM
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can figure out how increasing costs alone without increasing productivity or efficiency will result in the same or greater profit . . .
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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They've been increasing productivity while keeping wages
Jul 26, 2015, 8:47 PM
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stagnant and reducing benefits for the last 3 decades... and increasing profit. We can't let anybody get in the way of 'progress'....especially not some lowly wage workers. "What about my annual raise, bonus, stock options...?"
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108925]
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Sure...
Jul 26, 2015, 10:38 PM
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Message was edited by: Tiggity®
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Wall Street and their balloon economies... Quick money...
Jul 27, 2015, 2:45 PM
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The high-tech boom and the mortgage boom... It's easy pickings when you set it up and then short it ahead of the public in general. Your point...?
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All-In [10760]
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The new Walmart is already laying people off.
Jul 27, 2015, 7:30 AM
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Two primary hospitals near me, one if laying off again... this time 400.
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110%er [3609]
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In our economy,
Jul 27, 2015, 7:55 AM
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prices for a company's products are determined in the market.
A company's costs determine whether or not it participates in that market.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108925]
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Not so if you're really, really big
Jul 27, 2015, 10:11 AM
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Then it's determined by stock prices or even the export/import bank, or with corn by billions of dollars a year in ethanol subsidies, etc.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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... or the latest, greatest weapons system. F-35... whoa....***
Jul 27, 2015, 2:47 PM
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110%er [3609]
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That would be the gov't buying from itself.***
Jul 27, 2015, 4:47 PM
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Lockheed and those ex-generals don't have anything to do
Jul 28, 2015, 12:20 AM
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with it...
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110%er [3609]
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Let me ask you something, SOLOS.
Jul 28, 2015, 7:55 AM
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There is no question that gov't is enormous, inefficient, intrusive, and wasteful. That is why Conservatives want as little as practical. However, without a strong defense, we wouldn't exist. So, what is your alternative? Do you have one, or are you just throwing stones? Tell me what country on the planet does not want our defensive capabilities. And the next war we have, instead of the best fighter jet we can produce that helps ensure the survival of the pilot, you can go to war in a Sopwith Camel.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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You need to do a little research on the F-35 debacle...***
Jul 28, 2015, 8:43 AM
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110%er [3609]
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I didn't think you wanted to go there.***
Jul 28, 2015, 9:31 AM
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110%er [3609]
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Tiger Spirit [9265]
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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What a joke... If they published it,.... fish wrapper.***
Jul 28, 2015, 12:18 AM
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Trainer [46]
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Re: $15.00 min wage advocates . . .***
Jul 28, 2015, 9:59 AM
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Trainer [46]
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Re: $15.00 min wage advocates . . .***
Jul 28, 2015, 10:02 AM
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Wait til welfare folks find out that $15 an hour will cut their benefits on welfare. They will want less hours. When democrats push programs just wait for unintended consequences. Ha
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