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Replies: 33
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Walk-On [120]
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Some would say that Tommy B is the chaplain for the football
Apr 4, 2007, 7:44 AM
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team but I know it's not true. On a more serious note, does Clemson have a sports chaplain for football and other sports teams? Anyone know??
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null [216]
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Re: Some would say that Tommy B is the chaplain for the football
Apr 4, 2007, 7:58 AM
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As a state-funded institution, I would hope not. I would hope, though, that CU would have some sort of crisis or non-crisis counselor who would have a long list of pastoral counselors open for referrals.
Go Tigers!
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Legend [17143]
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Yeah, heaven forbid a coach promote the positive ideals
Apr 4, 2007, 8:07 AM
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and beliefs of Christianity to his players because of the state.
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null [216]
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Typical response
Apr 4, 2007, 8:10 AM
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Why is it that so many so-called followers of a religion that is supposed to be based upon love express so much disdain and animosity towards a free-will concept?
State endorsed religion is not free will. If you are truly dedicated to the faith of Jesus Christ, why would you want the state endorsing it?
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CU Medallion [63034]
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Tolerance - it works both ways***
Apr 4, 2007, 8:12 AM
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null [216]
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I've shown the tolerance
Apr 4, 2007, 8:18 AM
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Look back at my reply. I advocated referrals to pastoral counselors. That way it doesn't matter if it's Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, whatever.
My second reply was to a sarcastic answer, an answer that unfortunately has been, in my experience, typical.
And to end any specualation about my faith or lack thereof, let me state it here: I was raised Baptist. At Clemson, I attended Holy Trinity and became Episcopalian. Three years ago, I began attending Unitarian-Universalist services.
None of that changes the anti-establishment language of the Bill of Rights.
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All-TigerNet [11024]
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Which is Congress shall make no law.********
Apr 4, 2007, 8:30 AM
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null [216]
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de facto counts as does de jure
Apr 4, 2007, 8:39 AM
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All-Pro [651]
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Legend [16071]
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Typically recieve a reply defending Christianity in a...
Apr 4, 2007, 8:54 AM
[ in reply to I've shown the tolerance ] |
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country founded on Christian ideals and morals?
Its almost as if a majority of people believe in this stuff. As if a majority of the football players and coaches at Clemson are Christians.
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null [216]
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but it isn't defending Christianity...
Apr 4, 2007, 9:07 AM
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The "typical" response I referred to is not one that defends Christianity. It is one that wants that faith held up above all others. Now, on a church level or personal level, if that is what brings a person some sense of security, so be it.
BUT, when that spills over into the public sector, it's another story. That is forcing some who may not hold the same belief to accept it. Where's the ethic of the Golden Rule in that?
This particular thread--at least my involvement in it--revolves on two issues.
1--Clemson = state funded institution. To use taxpayer $$ to fund an endorsement of one faith over another is wrong.
2--When did I attack Christianity? In order to defend something, it must be attacked.
We'll save the "Founding Fathers" debate for another day. Let's not cloud the issue, please.
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Legend [16071]
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Easy to put off the main issue. America was built....
Apr 4, 2007, 10:21 AM
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"under God." There is plenty of historical evidence to prove so. Really isn't much of a debate.
Now should it have been? That's open for debate.
As far as Clemson is concerned though, our coach is a Christian, he preaches Christian morals and beliefs, and has hired a full-time Christian chaplain/counselor for our team. And apparently it isn't a problem because its been that way since Tommy Bowden got here.
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null [216]
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Actually, no...
Apr 4, 2007, 12:55 PM
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Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and many others bent over backwards to avoid the kind of theocracy that some in this nation today would like to have. The historical record is clear, except for when the fundamentalists try to revise and distort.
Theocracy...if you like the idea religion in government, you should love the Taliban.
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CU Medallion [51584]
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Doesn't Tommy make them go to church?
Apr 4, 2007, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to I've shown the tolerance ] |
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There is nothing wrong with that.
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null [216]
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nothing wrong with that????
Apr 4, 2007, 12:57 PM
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Forget the play calling, if Tommy Bowden tried to force the players to go to church, he should be fired immediately.
This is America. Freedom of (and from) religion...
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Hall of Famer [22456]
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To indoctrinate the young and impressionable?***
Apr 4, 2007, 8:15 AM
[ in reply to Typical response ] |
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All-In [39020]
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Gotta get 'em while they're young.
Apr 4, 2007, 8:38 AM
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Otherwise they see through the charade.
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Hall of Famer [24295]
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You are in my prayers***
Apr 4, 2007, 9:26 AM
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All-In [39020]
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Thanks, I guess***
Apr 4, 2007, 9:38 AM
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Zealot [749]
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But, a coach providing a chaplain for players
Apr 4, 2007, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to Typical response ] |
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that voluntarily choose to meet with him and listen to him would not be state endorsed religion. Yes, if Tommy required every player to attend chapel services, that would be the case, but providing a chaplain for players that wanted to participate is not state endorsed religion.
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null [216]
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I think we're on the same page...
Apr 4, 2007, 8:37 AM
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My original point was to make referrals to pastoral counselors. That would be voluntary.
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Orange Blooded [2763]
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null [216]
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or a Rabbi, Imam, Shaman, etc.
Apr 4, 2007, 9:41 AM
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Your point is well taken. When the state pays, we are bound by law to provide for all.
Let it be off campus and voluntary.
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Orange Blooded [3139]
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Chaplains don't have to be Christian
Apr 4, 2007, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to Yeah, heaven forbid a coach promote the positive ideals ] |
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In fact, my battalion's chaplain is one of the coolest guys I know, but he really doesn't spend alot (any) time trying to convert people. Just offers advice.
I say this, because a chaplain for Clemson sports shouldn't be promoting "ideals and beliefs of Christianity" to the players.
Who said Christians had a exclusive right to tell people to treat others like you'd want to be treated? These ideals do not require a preacher.
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CU Medallion [63034]
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Yes, he has spoken at our church; although, I can't recall
Apr 4, 2007, 8:08 AM
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his name at this time.
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Team Captain [481]
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tony eubanks, fca***
Apr 4, 2007, 8:10 AM
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null [5]
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Tony is a great guy.....
Apr 4, 2007, 9:21 AM
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that really invests in the lives of those football players. He spoke a few weeks ago here and everyone loved him.
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All-In [34874]
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yes they do***
Apr 4, 2007, 8:43 AM
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Orange Blooded [4662]
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State, or school for that matter, does not pay the chaplain.
Apr 4, 2007, 8:55 AM
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FCA sponsors this important function.
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null [216]
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That's a great solution!***
Apr 4, 2007, 9:07 AM
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Orange Blooded [4662]
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It works like that a many or most state schools.***
Apr 4, 2007, 9:08 AM
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CU Guru [1010]
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funny, a coot pretending to be a Tiger in TAC last night is
Apr 4, 2007, 9:32 AM
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the only person I've heard call TB a chaplain
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All-Pro [651]
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Re: Some would say that Tommy B is the chaplain for the football
Apr 4, 2007, 10:33 AM
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Yes, but not sure of his name. Very dynamic speaker from what I hear.
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null [468]
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Yes
Apr 4, 2007, 10:45 AM
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Toney Eubanks is team chaplain, I don't think that's his official title, but that's what he is. However, the players are not required to attend pregame chapel and Bowden does a pretty good job of not trying to stuff Christianity down his players throats.
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