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All-In [30593]
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You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:25 PM
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If you just did... then don't complain. Realignment is fluid until the ink dries. Things agreed on yesterday, may not be tomorrow. We'll see how it plays out...
Let's see if we can piece some things together and answer some questions. I'll try and do most of this in order, and give some thoughts and questions to ponder at the end.
1. Clemson and FSU have not been happy with the ACC for quite a while. Internally, there were meetings between the 2 about how to force the ACC's hand into showing more loyalty to it's top 2 football schools. The ACC made two strategically bad decisions that hurt both... they invited Pitt/Cuse over WVU and they went to the 9 game conf. schedule. Both CU and FSU were united in being opposed to the 9 game schedule and both wanted WVU.
2. The Big XII never intended to stay at 10 teams. Given the money involved, and the way the championship was heading, getting back to at least 12 has always been the goal.
3. Intermediaries between CU/FSU and the Big XII began talks late last year. I'll let you figure that out. I'm not giving that out.
4. The entire time, neither CU nor FSU "want" to leave the ACC. The details of the ACC contract begin to leak, and it's pretty bad. In a last ditch effort, CU and FSU ask the ACC to allow them to keep 50% of thier bowl revenue, as opposed to the current model. The ACC refuses.
5. By this time, talks are well underway with the Big XII, via intermediaries, and the ACC's unwillingness to support CU and FSU are seen as the "last straw".
6. In the meantime, the Big XII and SEC know what is coming down the pipe with the "plus 1 model", and they know the benefits of relegating the ACC to "non-existent". They announce the "Champions Bowl". They do not announce many details, b/c they are bluffing the ACC into uneasiness. It works. The TV deal, combined with rumors of CU/FSU, combined with the announcement of the SEC/BigXII working together causes ACC schools to get on the phones to other conferences. The dismembering of the ACC has begun.
7. The "Champions Bowl", combined with the existing alliance of Pac12/B1G, furthers speculation of the four team playoff and ACC being left out.
8. CU's BOT meets to discuss "tuition". "Tuition" equals Big XII. An argument is presented on both sides, and it's pretty intense. In the end, the CUBOT realizes there is only "one choice". Wilkins comments after obviously leave the door open.
9. The Big XII meetings commence. Outwardly, denials, happy at 10, no desire to expand. Inwardly, CU and FSU are both "very much involved" in the meetings, and I don't mean just being discussed. Again, I will have to leave it at that.
10. Calculated leaks begin to take place heading up to June 15 (Bowlsby takes over), June 20 (BCS meetings), and Aug. 15 (last day for team to withdraw from ACC for the year). Example: Forbes article
- When will things go down officially?
Could be anytime after June 15. I doubt it happens before the BCS meetings. Although, keep in mind what comes out of Tally could force Clemson's hand.
- Anything Dodds at UT says is on purpose to throw the media off and make it not look like they're "poaching".
- I don't see the Big XII going past 12 teams right now unless ND is involved. They will make thier intentions known to the Big XII shortly, but they will likely want to join in Olympic sports first, and football later (NBC contract)
- UM and GT have been told "no thanks right now". That could change with ND though (at least for GT).
- Word is leaking out if you ask in the right places, even around Clemson.
- Divisional alignments have already begun to be discussed with a 12 team Big XII that includes both CU and FSU.
- $24 - $27 mil, per team, including the BigXII championship game, are the numbers being thrown around. This does not include the Champions Bowl.
- As the details of the ACC's TV deals, including Raycom, are leaked... the ACC may not have much room for legal posturing. As a matter of fact, CU and FSU may have a case for damages (or no exit fee at the least).
- Why would the Big XII and SEC announce their "alignment" when they did? It's all about timing. No ACC means stronger SEC and Big XII and more opportuntity for money.
- As more teams WITH VALUE are added, TV contracts are redone... so don't say "that just means they split it 12 or 14 ways now".
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Fan [79]
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Divisions
Jun 5, 2012, 3:36 PM
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What divisional alignments seem to have the most support?
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1st Rounder [603]
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TX schools + OU \ everybody else- (we be in everybody else)***
Jun 5, 2012, 3:53 PM
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Fan [79]
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Your opinion or has it been leaked?***
Jun 5, 2012, 4:10 PM
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1st Rounder [603]
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common consensus among people with no "official" comments***
Jun 5, 2012, 4:41 PM
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MVP [548]
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Re: common consensus among people with no "official" comments***
Jun 5, 2012, 4:54 PM
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Divisons leaked
West East
UT FSU
OU Clemson
OKL St WVU
Texas Tech Iowa ST
Kansas TCU
Kansas St Baylor
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Fan [79]
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Leaked from where?***
Jun 5, 2012, 5:02 PM
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Orange Blooded [3311]
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Mangus***
Jun 6, 2012, 8:24 AM
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All-In [49613]
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And you don't have to read this reply...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:38 PM
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Thanks!
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All-American [591]
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:39 PM
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Thanks. Very interesting read.
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Orange Blooded [2220]
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thanks...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:41 PM
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interesting....
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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If you consider an economic model where...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:43 PM
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there is a fixed amount of college football revenues and everybody is greedy this entire scenario makes sense. If you live in a dream world where no greed nor competition exist you can ignore it.
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CU Guru [1263]
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No offense, but who are you and why should I believe you?
Jun 5, 2012, 3:43 PM
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I'm not trying to be an ####. I've read several of your posts. They are well put together and sound credible, but why should I believe you?
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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Legend [19586]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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And we wonder why people are so easy to fool.
Jun 5, 2012, 3:55 PM
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I'm not saying york_tiger is wrong, I'm just saying it is generally a bad idea to believe anything with no specific reason beyond speculation.
In this case it won't hurt anyone, but many people screw up all the time because they are bad at falling for things.
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Rock Defender [54]
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no specific reason?
Jun 5, 2012, 4:01 PM
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there's PLENTY of reason and when you're getting burned, your belief about the fire is not speculation.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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There is a specific reason to speculate. There is no
Jun 5, 2012, 4:10 PM
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specific reason to believe that this post is based on inside information.
That is a huge difference which too many people overlook.
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Rock Defender [54]
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And sometimes, a husband has no reason to speculate
Jun 5, 2012, 4:31 PM
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that his wife is cheating but everyone on the block knows its happening.
The signs are there. You can choose to accept them and understand them or you can choose to ignore them. But they're there, nonetheless.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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That doesn't really make much sense in this discussion.***
Jun 5, 2012, 5:06 PM
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CU Medallion [53842]
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It makes a lot of sense.***
Jun 5, 2012, 5:21 PM
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110%er [8009]
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Believing or not believing is entirely up to the reader.
Jun 5, 2012, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to No offense, but who are you and why should I believe you? ] |
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You read as much as you can and try to decide for yourself which posts have value and which are BS. If you read enough, keep an open mind, and read between the lines when officials like the CU BOT Chair and TDP speak, it's not too difficult to figure out where we are heading.
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All-In [27194]
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Treat it as an editorial. Dissect it however you want and
Jun 5, 2012, 3:55 PM
[ in reply to No offense, but who are you and why should I believe you? ] |
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draw your own conclusions. I would expect more of these Forbes-type articles to leak out as we get closer to June 15th. If I had to guess, the next "leak" will come from FSU. By the 15th, it will be abundantly clear to everyone that a decision has to be made, one way or the other. The ACC is reaping what it sowed.
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CU Medallion [55434]
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Re: Treat it as an editorial. Dissect it however you want and
Jun 5, 2012, 5:01 PM
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And that is absolutely nothing for a long time now....
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Rock Defender [54]
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110%er [7971]
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:43 PM
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Thanks again!
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110%er [8009]
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With the changes coming and everything that has happened...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:44 PM
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staying in the ACC would greatly limit Clemson's (or any other football school for that matter) ability to compete. I think we HAVE to move to the Big 12 IF the SEC is not a possibility.
But I would certainly feel better about the Big 12 if they went to 16 with ND and a few more southeastern schools (GaT, NCST, VaT, Miami, etc.).
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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That would be nice for Clemson's traveling fans and the...
Jun 5, 2012, 3:47 PM
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Big 12's electronic footprint too.
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CU Medallion [55434]
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Amateur [43]
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Why is Clemson so interested in ACC showing loyalty to FSU..
Jun 5, 2012, 4:24 PM
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and Virgina Tech? Those are the ACC's top two football schools.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Why is Clemson so interested in ACC showing loyalty to FSU..
Jun 5, 2012, 5:18 PM
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hey look an obsessed loser of a USC fan posting on Clemson's site.
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Orange Blooded [4761]
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And where is USC in the SEC's list of top football schools?
Jun 6, 2012, 7:08 AM
[ in reply to Why is Clemson so interested in ACC showing loyalty to FSU.. ] |
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Tenth? Eleventh? Even Ole Miss and Mississippi State have more football tradition than you. The only team you could arguably move ahead of from 11th to 10th place is Kentucky (we all know Vandy is dead last).
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110%er [7913]
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Great read...thanks for sharing***
Jun 5, 2012, 4:24 PM
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Orange Blooded [3442]
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 4:37 PM
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Thanks, would be interesting to know how much or what discussion the BOT had regarding the Raycom part of the deal and its relation to Swofford and his son. Hard to believe most of the other ACC schools haven't raised he!! about it.
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All-In [40941]
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The Big 12 is happy at 10, didn't you read the article?
Jun 5, 2012, 4:37 PM
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signed,
penutcrazy
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Varsity [209]
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Slam dunk assessment! Goodbye ACC!***
Jun 5, 2012, 5:06 PM
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MVP [548]
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Leaked from where?
Jun 5, 2012, 5:08 PM
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It was found in a bathroom stall after the big12 meetings last week.
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All-American [551]
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 5:11 PM
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thank you for the info YORK....i appreciate it!
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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YES I DO! I am hooked on BigXII rumors.
Jun 5, 2012, 5:14 PM
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Thank you for posting.
Even if you're totally making it up, it all sounds plausible so I am soaking it in. But you are also consistent with DudeofWVU who was the first on this last Fall.
Keep it up.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Thanks for the post York.***
Jun 5, 2012, 5:41 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: You da man, york!!***
Jun 5, 2012, 6:38 PM
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Legend [17626]
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The basic premise of this
Jun 5, 2012, 7:32 PM
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is that Clemson really cares about athletic success. God I hope that's true.
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Does this mean we'll be playing some tough-nosed football in
Jun 5, 2012, 7:50 PM
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other parts of the country..and not at Durham, Winston-Salem or College Park any more?!
Go TiGERs!
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Legend [17626]
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I live in Raleigh and try to take in as many of those
Jun 5, 2012, 8:09 PM
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Durham and Winston Salem games as I can, but won't miss them as long as we're in a conference that's football relevant.
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Rock Defender [54]
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If Mickey's blog about David Wilkins is correct, h3ll yeah!***
Jun 5, 2012, 8:05 PM
[ in reply to The basic premise of this ] |
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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Varsity [211]
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A few things don't add up though.....
Jun 5, 2012, 8:16 PM
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1. Big12 hasn't signed its TV deal. The bloggers said this would happen by/at the B12 meetings last week, but didn't happen. The B12 TV deal was never reduced when they lost 4 teams then they added 2, but now they are splitting a 12 team deal 10 ways, which lends credence to the "happy at 10" talk. Speculation on some boards is the B12 isn't getting much more, if anything, to add 11 & 12. B12 bloggers (the Dude) have consistently said #13 is when the escalations kick in.
2. Big12 hasn't signed the Grant of Rights deal, tied to TV deal above. TX AD indicated all are not completely on board yet, but said they remain enthusiastic. This is the MAIN thing that makes the B12 stable, but its not done.
3. Bowlsby isn't taking the reins June 15, although that is his annoucement date. Nienas is staying on through June as the sole Commissioner, and now, he is staying through July as co-acting Commish while Bowlsby attends to his USOC duties. It is widely conceded in B12 blogger land that Neinas wants nothing to do with expansion on his watch due having an external consulting/headhunter firm serving NCAA clients. All agree it is Bowlsby who would want his stamp on expansion, yet he won't be around till August.
4. Playoff timeline, like each of the items above, seems to be moving to the right. Delaney indicated this week that the system will not be settled June 20. The conferences seem like they have a lot of ground to close and even when the Commish's agree it needs to go to the President's Committee for approval. Oh yeah, that committee is chaired by the Va Tech Prez - I'm sure he'll sign-off on any deal that significantly limits VPI.
These are some facts, not "I know a guy" stuff, and they are routinely ignored in all the "done deal" speculation. Yet, we hear all of this will be done and CU out of the ACC by the Aug 15 deadline. That seems highly optimistic.
Wouldn't CU/FSU want to see a signed B12 TV deal prior to jumping; wouldn't they INSIST on the GOR being signed by UT & OU; wouldn't they want to be SURE what the playoff system is or isn't going to be?
We may end up jumping and so be it - but I'd want the decision based on facts not emotions.
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All-In [30593]
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Big 12 currently has 6 year GOR...
Jun 5, 2012, 8:34 PM
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CU has seen a copy of the proposed TV contract at 12 teams.
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Varsity [211]
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It's the 13 yr GOR CU cares about & it's a problem!***
Jun 5, 2012, 8:56 PM
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Rooter [200]
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Re: It's the 13 yr GOR CU cares about & it's a problem!***
Jun 6, 2012, 4:32 PM
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The Big 12 TV contract has not been signed, no. You can speculate as you did as to why, but most believe it is because they know they are expanding soon and do not want to get locked into a deal that may be more if two are added. Why sign a contract right now if you know you are expanding in say, 2 months?
The 13 year GoR will be signed by every member. There is not a debate about this. WHere you heard that other crap is a mystery.
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Varsity [211]
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Your B12 Daddy, DeLoss said it. Not all on board w/ GOR!
Jun 6, 2012, 8:25 PM
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If the TV contract is written how all the B12 bloggers state - then it already has the escalatation clauses. That was supposed to be the big selling point to ACC teams - the $$ just waiting for expansion teams. If that's the case, it shouldn't matter to current B12 that they sign the deal. However, if they really aren't on board with the 13 year GOR THAT would be an explanation as to not sign.
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Orange Blooded [2929]
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 9:03 PM
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Epic.
York Tiger for Heisman.
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Scout Team [163]
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 9:11 PM
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Makes sense to me. Thanks!
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110%er [8244]
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 5, 2012, 9:33 PM
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Thanks--point
keep digging
some will not believe even when shirts are being sold
with Clemson Tigers Big 12 on them
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Varsity [211]
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He's not digging - this was all posted on WVU board days ago
Jun 5, 2012, 10:07 PM
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In fact, the OP has been identified as "lifted" from the crazed WVU "insider" who has already been busted on their board for having multiple handles to agree with himself and verify the info. See below:
Posted: Today 5:29 PM
Re: Interesting post @ Clemson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Mountie. Interesting you would happen to find this and link it. Very interesting indeed.
Clemson "Insider" = Black
Mounty "Insider Info" = Red
When will things go down officially?
Could be anytime after June 15. I doubt it happens before the BCS meetings. Although, keep in mind what comes out of Tally could force Clemson's hand.
Look for things to really break and invitations to be issued sometime after June 15. I've been told July is most likely for this to go down.
- Anything Dodds at UT says is on purpose to throw the media off and make it not look like they're "poaching".
I was told that anything official that comes out of the Big 12 meetings will be misinformation and misdirection. (two sources)
- I don't see the Big XII going past 12 teams right now unless ND is involved. They will make thier intentions known to the Big XII shortly, but they will likely want to join in Olympic sports first, and football later (NBC contract)
The only way the Big 12 goes to 14-16 at this time is with Notre Dame. There is no disagreement on who 11 and 12 are. Texas is very adamant about not moving beyond 12 without Notre Dame. (three sources)
- UM and GT have been told "no thanks right now". That could change with ND though (at least for GT).
Georgia Tech was told "Thanks, but not right now". (one source)
Miami called shortly before their statement of support for the ACC and was told they weren't a candidate. Despite what has been reported, they did come around and wanted to explore options.
- Word is leaking out if you ask in the right places, even around Clemson.
Leaks will begin to emerge from both FSU and Clemson sometime after the Big 12 meetings (could be weeks, though). They will both take the lead in this, and the Big 12 will "be very happy" that they have "become available". (three sources)
- Divisional alignments have already begun to be discussed with a 12 team Big XII that includes both CU and FSU.
A lot of talk yesterday about divisional alignments.FSU is keen on a "North/South" setup, with them sharing a division with Clemson and the Texas schools. OU, OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, and WVU prefer an "East/West" setup, because it easily allows for future expansion in the South, Atlantic, and Midwest. (one source)
- $24 - $27 mil, per team, including the BigXII championship game, are the numbers being thrown around. This does not include the Champions Bowl.
All signs point to $24-$26 million per team with FSU/Clemson and a Big 12 CCG in the mix. This doesn't include the Champions Bowl payouts.
What another amazing coincidence!
Last edited Today 5:31 PM by Section137
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All-In [30593]
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don't know anyone on a WVU board...
Jun 5, 2012, 11:25 PM
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but we may have some of the same contacts...
What I post is gathered from multiple contacts.
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110%er [8095]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10945
Joined: 2/10/11
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Any word on CU getting around ACC exit fee? especially
Jun 5, 2012, 10:13 PM
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now that we know about Swofford and the Raycom deal that cheated us out of $$$?
Is Clemson ready to lawyer-up on that issue?
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110%er [8095]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10945
Joined: 2/10/11
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I missed the line where you addressed this.
Jun 5, 2012, 10:22 PM
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I hope CU is lawyering-up. Not having to pay an exit fee would be great.
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Scout Team [196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 320
Joined: 3/13/07
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Re: You don't have to open this...
Jun 6, 2012, 7:23 AM
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thanks York - I pray that this is true!
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Heisman Winner [112363]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 61263
Joined: 8/22/01
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I think you have to much time on your hands. And..........
Jun 6, 2012, 3:50 PM
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nothing personal, but I hope you are dead wrong on the Big 12 crap.
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CU Medallion [50635]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43019
Joined: 12/3/98
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coot***
Jun 6, 2012, 4:02 PM
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