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110%er [9949]
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null [30]
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Gathering at the Paw***
Jul 19, 2004, 5:48 PM
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null [30]
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Sorry
Jul 19, 2004, 5:53 PM
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I am a student at Clemson and I think that Gathering at the Paw SUCKS! Put in new goal posts, fine, but don't act like every other administration and make a crappy post-game ritual. I've come to games since I was a little kid, and I loved kicking field goals and throwing on the field for 45 minutes after every game. In my opinion, it is a microchosm of our new administraition making Clemson less of what it was made to be--an ag and military school--and trying to make it gay like Duke. Sorry for the rant
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null [2861]
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Re: Sorry
Jul 19, 2004, 7:05 PM
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You still can come onto the field and kick field goals and throw the ball... I saw kids doing it after every game this last year. I am a big fan of "gathering at the paw" because now there is more of a chance of players staying on the field after the game.
Let's be honest, you probably are a student donor to IPTAY, and that's 30 a year. Field goal posts cost 10,000 dollars. I know I'd rather have my 30 dollars go to giving someone a scholarship rather than tearing down a goalpost. Yea, they deserved to come down for the biggest upset in Clemson history and winning the 100th game, but a mob can be fickle and a mob full of students might storm the field and tear down the goal posts for something worthless (ie. USC's New Mexico State).
Also, don't ever compare our football program or football program traditons to lame ol dookie.
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null [30]
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Re: Sorry
Jul 19, 2004, 7:14 PM
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Not the football program, TreyBeck, but the the university administration--namely, Barker and his crew. I think we're on the wrong track, and I've heard a lot of other students say it too. They want us to be modeled after a school like Duke or Vandy academically and socially. In 10-20 years, don't be surprised if Clemson is full of a bunch of high school douchebags, just like Duke.
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Legend [18069]
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Anyone that believes that President Barker
Jul 19, 2004, 7:16 PM
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is leading Clemson into the wrong direction is either uneducated or a complete and total idiot.
President Barker is exactly what this University needs. If you would take the time and look at what he is doing for us, you would realize that.
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null [30]
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We'll see if you say that in 10 years***
Jul 19, 2004, 7:18 PM
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Legend [18069]
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I believe I will
Jul 19, 2004, 7:20 PM
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If Barker's plan succeeds, we will be a top 20 university focusing on research and education. If you don't see that as a step in the right direction, then what is?
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null [30]
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What if the plan doesn't succeed?
Jul 19, 2004, 7:35 PM
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We've thrown a helluva of a lot of money to stay ahead of the rat race that is Academia, and we've failed. I love Clemson, and the greatest decision of my life was to become a Tiger.
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Rock Defender [54]
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We've failed?
Jul 19, 2004, 7:58 PM
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We are consistently a top value per dollar, even with rising tuition costs, we have climbed in the academic rankings, the average incoming freshman at Clemson is more accomplished than any other at any time in our history.
I also have to disagree with where you feel Barker is leading the University "Socially and academically."
Barker has always made a point about making Clemson, "distinctly Clemson." We are not about imitation. We are about We are about innovation. Barker seems to exude that.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Sorry about the typo.***
Jul 19, 2004, 7:59 PM
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null [2861]
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curious
Jul 19, 2004, 7:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sorry ] |
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What was their basis that Barker has them on the wrong track?
Was it the #1 public college by Time Magazine, The highest SAT scores for SC's public universities, was it the nationally acreddited Graphic Communications, Packaging Science, Architecture, or Engineering programs. Was it the fact that the avg. SAT score of incoming freshman classes has increased just about every year for the last 5 years?
Maybe we can flip to the athletic side of the coin, which is mostly Terry Don Phillips and see our most recent basketball hire, maybe a top 20 football finish, and maybe even the ACC titles and national rankings most all of our programs ended with.
Also, let's be honest, would you mind having Duke's academics and/or basketball program?
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Legend [18069]
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Good post.***
Jul 19, 2004, 7:21 PM
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null [30]
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Re: curious
Jul 19, 2004, 7:31 PM
[ in reply to curious ] |
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Well, I guess I'm getting ganged up on, so here goes...
What I meant has nothing to do with athletics. Athletically, we are advancing in the right direction, but we're not there yet and Terry Don knows that, as well as Tommy and Oliver.
Academically, I do like that our Test scores for incoming freshmen are better, and that we were the #1 public U a couple years ago. However, I feel that in many respects we are getting away from Thomas Green Clemson's vision of being a different institution of higher learning than the one in Columbia. Clemson began as an agriculture school. We don't have measure our value and worth as a University against a Duke, Virginia, Vanderbilt, etc., because that is not what we were founded upon. I think that we have gotten away from some of the traditional aspects of our university which made it so great and unique.
And the reason Duke's academics are so great is half the student body is in the library on Fall Saturdays. Trust me, I've been there. It sucks.
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null [1511]
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This is what is wrong with the state of South Carolina.
Jul 19, 2004, 10:09 PM
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A small portion of the population does not understand that the state operates within a national economy, fighting for jobs, federal money, and the general wellfare of the residents. All of this generally tends to rise and lower based on the education level of a states population.
You want the school to go back and be an agricultural school? Do you think that it is the best way to help our state and its people compete in the national and global economy?
If you do, maybe I should start smoking what you are smoking.
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null [30]
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Try this
Jul 19, 2004, 10:12 PM
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It's called marajuana. And it makes me pretty high. I'm done arguing. Time to smoke some more. Ya'll got good stuff in AZ?
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null [30]
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And yeah, I spelled it wrong--to make you think I was high***
Jul 19, 2004, 10:13 PM
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All-TigerNet [11640]
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Screw that..............
Jul 19, 2004, 6:19 PM
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I say when we beat another top 10 and the posts come down with "a push of a button" we pick them and haul them out of the stadium anyways. Then cut them up. I could use another piece for my collection.
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Savant [454]
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Re: Screw that..............
Jul 19, 2004, 6:25 PM
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I'm with you on that! I could also use a piece of the goalpost...all I got from the FSU game was the orange streamer flag on top of the goalpost.
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Commissioner [995]
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Leave the old posts...
Jul 19, 2004, 6:35 PM
[ in reply to Screw that.............. ] |
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... this is ridiculous. We're Clemson and we're better than that. Everyone on the field after the games is one of the things (along with the hill) which makes the Valley such a special place. As for the posts... something just chimes wrong about it. We've taken the posts down, what, 3 times in our history? Maybe 4? It's not a problem, as was proven at the FSU game. It was only a problem at the USC game (although you don't tear down posts when you beat a 5-7 team) because of idiot cops spraying people in the face w/pepper spray and futily trying to control a happy but massive crowd of thousands. I just don't like these subtle steps softening the Clemson football program. Keep it special, unique, and keep the Valley intimidating.
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null [30]
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Great Post
Jul 19, 2004, 6:39 PM
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TexTownTiger,
That was a great post. I totally agree with you. But I don't think it is a softening of the football program. Instead it is a clear example of the University trying to conform to standards set by other "Top Twenty" Universities. We should be our own school, like we have been for so long. Like you said--"Keep it special, unique, and keep the Valley intimidating."
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Legend [18069]
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Guys as much fun as it is to take the posts down...
Jul 19, 2004, 6:43 PM
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this is a positive, proactive step by the Athletic Dept. to prevent future incidents. People shouldn't have to worry about being injured at a football game. If you want to keep the goalposts, then you will have to get rid of the Gathering at the Paw. There are hundreds of innocent children on the field when the goalposts come down and no one, I mean no one, wants to see innocent children get hurt.
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Enthusiast [100]
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Re: Guys as much fun as it is to take the posts down...
Jul 19, 2004, 6:48 PM
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I do.
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Enthusiast [100]
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Re: Guys as much fun as it is to take the posts down...
Jul 19, 2004, 6:48 PM
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I mean.. uhhh i dont!
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Legend [19933]
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Enthusiast [100]
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Actually, I was down there during the 2002 USC postgame
Jul 19, 2004, 6:55 PM
[ in reply to Guys as much fun as it is to take the posts down... ] |
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Romp, and its not the first time i've seen the Police abusing their power by using mace on college kids. This is ridiculous! I understand the danger argument about the goalposts, but to mace the students of the university you are working for?! To worsen the situation, we all know college aged kids drink before/during/after football games. So suppose you are a police officer who happens to be manning the goalpost right beneath the hill and you see 5000 semi-drunk crazed happy fans (who just celebrated a Clemson victory) coming towards you. Do you start to mace and let the mob take control and put your body in danger or do you get the F out of dodge and let them take the goalpost?
As a side note, The Anderson Police pulled their Clemson Football game security last year, in response to the 2002 Injury(ies) I think personally this was a classless move on their part, as it seems to me that it was primarily their fault for the injuries by having their officers in places they should NOT have been.
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110%er [8083]
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Crenshaw told me one of the first things he is going to do..
Jul 19, 2004, 7:05 PM
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Crenshaw who is running for sheriff in Anderson told me a couple of months back that he felt the Anderson police dept was at fault. He said one of the first things he was planning on doing was to re-establish with Clemson. He also said he understood the Clemson tradition of coming on the field after every game but some changes need to be made to insure the safety of everyone.
By the way Crenshaw is very good buddies with Danny Ford, also attends all of Clemson home football games.
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Commissioner [995]
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Amen on all counts
Jul 19, 2004, 7:13 PM
[ in reply to Actually, I was down there during the 2002 USC postgame ] |
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While the cops should be given their props on all deserved counts, the behaviour I saw from the select few around the East End Zone post that game was abhorrent. There was absolutely NO malice or combative behaviour exhibited on the part of any of the students in that celebration -- just pure jubilation and exhuberance following a truly taxing and frustrating season. Once the officers had been displaced from their almighty position of guarding the post (and the situation was still entirely under control), their pride clearly injured, they started their pepper spray campaign against students sitting on the posts celebrating without malice. As they sprayed these students (who either covered up in pain or fell off) and others who tried to get on the posts, this did nothing but prolong the ordeal and cause the crowd to swell. The FSU game showed that the posts can go down w/out much aplomb.
I hope the Anderson police enjoyed their overhyped media-fueled moment in the sun. Now if only they could keep cars from getting stolen and houses from getting broken into in that crime-infested town.
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null [1511]
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If you are against using mace on students that attend the
Jul 19, 2004, 7:51 PM
[ in reply to Actually, I was down there during the 2002 USC postgame ] |
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University, shouldn't you also be against students damaging school property for absolutely no good reason?
If I threw a chair out of my finance class window after nailing a test to cause $2,000 worth of damage, I would be arrested.
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Legend [19933]
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GREAT ILLUSTRATION!
Jul 19, 2004, 7:58 PM
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Destruction of property is not an appropriate way to celebrate. Period.
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Commissioner [995]
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Re: Guys as much fun as it is to take the posts down...
Jul 19, 2004, 7:04 PM
[ in reply to Guys as much fun as it is to take the posts down... ] |
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Works for me. Posts stay, "gathering at the paw" goes and is replaced with the old on-the-field free for all. It worked fine.
As for the hundreds of innocent children, I'd hope they have hundreds of innocent parents. Let's not forget who has the primary responsibility for the childrens' safety. As a caveat, when the posts were going down at the end of the U$C game (an act that took 10 minutes rather than 20 seconds because of the cocky idiocy of a few peppy-spray happy, low-level metermaids), I didn't see any truly small or young children in the immediate viscinity of the posts (although it was pretty crowded), just mostly college aged kids.
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Legend [18069]
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Regardless of whether or not
Jul 19, 2004, 7:12 PM
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gathering at the paw goes, the fact is that there are children on the field. That is part of the tradition, as we all know.
As far as the parents...I know if I were a parent, I would like my child to be able to go onto the field and not have to worry about students tearing down the goalposts and putting them in danger. They should not even have to worry about the safety of their children...its a football game!
I had a roommate sprayed with pepper spray in that incident. I completely agree...that was ridiculous and should not have happened. Guess what? Now it wont. No innocent children will be put in harms way and no students will be sprayed like common criminals.
This is the solution. I feel that many other prominent football programs will be following right behind us.
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Commissioner [995]
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Re: Regardless of whether or not
Jul 19, 2004, 7:19 PM
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I really don't feel we're too far apart on this issue, but when you refer to other prominent football programs following behind us, I think that illustrates where we differ.
I don't care or much want other football programs to take our lead here. We are Clemson. We are different and that place is special. We can do things w/out problems that other schools (see WVU, NCST, UMD) cannot because that school and football stadium are so special. There is just something in those hills, and I firmly believe that rather than depriving a special and one-of-a-kind student body of a twice-per-decade (on average) expression of jubiliation, the police should just be instructed to let the posts come down in extraordinary circumstances. This isn't something that happens every game, and it isn't everygame that we beat FSU or the #3 ranked team in the country. I wouldn't want to change anything about that evening, and, for some reason, the thought of pushing a button and having the posts collapse just takes some of the luster off that night.
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null [1511]
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Lawsuits, lawsuits, lawsuits. If is a problem.
Jul 19, 2004, 7:49 PM
[ in reply to Leave the old posts... ] |
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On another note, why do we cost our school extra money when we get a big win? It just doesn't make sense to me.
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CU Guru [1609]
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Have yall heard of anyone getting hurt?
Jul 19, 2004, 7:53 PM
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I say we twist that sucker around until it snaps then parade its hydraulics around campus. How many people have yall heard of getting hurt doing this not counting the time they put the cops out there with pepper spray. Ironic that more people were injured when they tried to stop it with force. I know its money out of the university pocket but we arent SCU and tear it down for 6 wins in a row. It's great fun and a good way to get the student body pumped up after a huge win. You beat the #2 team in the nation, tear it down! Go tigers
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Legend [18069]
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Take away the ability of the goalposts to be torn down
Jul 19, 2004, 8:06 PM
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and you take people getting hurt out of the equation...for the most part. No students will be hurt b/c of police presence and no one else will be hurt by the posts coming down and the madness that ensues.
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CU Guru [1609]
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Re: Take away the ability of the goalposts to be torn down
Jul 19, 2004, 8:17 PM
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The point was, have you ever heard of anyone getting hurt in the process. I haven't.
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Enthusiast [100]
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Re: Have yall heard of anyone getting hurt?
Jul 19, 2004, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to Have yall heard of anyone getting hurt? ] |
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Yes, one of my fraternity brothers got maced and later when walking around with the goalpost got it slammed in his head on accident. He couldnt see well bc of the mace and thats why he walked into the stopped goalpost (being carried by students to the reflection pond), which game him two nasty shiners and a welt on his forehead. Take the mace and booze out of that equation and he'd have been fine.
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CU Medallion [53830]
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Gathering at the paw is silly...
Jul 19, 2004, 8:28 PM
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almost as bad that's another Carolina......First Down. When you have to orchestrate an after game function like that it takes all the spontaneity out of it.
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Legend [18069]
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Tell that to all of the kids who live and breathe
Jul 19, 2004, 10:27 PM
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Clemson football. Tell that to them when they get to go on the field and pat the players on the back and get them to sign the jersery they are wearing bearing their number. Its not silly to the kids.
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null [30]
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It's not silly to the kids.
Jul 19, 2004, 10:32 PM
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I did it for 15 years. What is silly though, is the administration forcing the singing of the alma mater and making the postgame celebration scripted. I got players autographs, wristbands, chinstraps, etc. long before the official "Gathering at the Paw" was initiated last season. I'm with everybody else who says it sucks.
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CU Guru [1609]
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Re: Death Valley's goal posts
Jul 20, 2004, 1:26 PM
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If they are that worried about it just make it out of 3/4" thick steel and anchor that sucker in the ground. Somebody gets up there and falls off, its there own dand fault and deserve every broken bone they get for not being able to hold on!
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