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Topic: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game
Replies: 36   Last Post: Sep 14, 2018 9:59 PM by: Pj3355
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TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 8:57 AM
 

WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game

YouTube user fiveyorks performed a video analysis of the fumble in the Clemson - Texas A&M game that was ruled a touchback. According to this analysis, the call Read Update »



I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam

[3]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:14 AM
 

It was evident that some portion of the ball flew directly over the pylon from that angle. But crazier things have happened so you can't rely on video evidence sometimes.


Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam

[2]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:31 AM
 

EXACTLY!!! I've seen a number of people say "the pylon cam proves the ball was out of bounds before going into the endzone" - I called BS on those people right from the beginning. The pylon cam clearly showed the ball going directly above it, which would mean the ball was still in play (similar to a ball going above the upright on a FG resulting in a made attempt). It was cut and dry to me, even while watching the live broadcast.


Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 11:38 AM
 

A ball that goes directly over an upright is not a successful field goal attempt. The ball, in its entirety, has to be completely inside both uprights (or the vertical plane extending above them).

Similarly, if the ball goes directly over the pylon, it, like the pylon itself, is out of bounds. A player who touches the ball on the inside the pylon (typically on a diving play running towards the front corner of the end zone) is considered to have broken the vertical plane established by the goal line. The ball hits that plane (the edge of the end zone line that is closest to the field of play) before it hits the pylon itself, therefore, it is a touchdown.

This video, if the angles and math work is true and the ball actually did go directly over the pylon, proves the call on the field was wrong.

Regardless, they didn't have video evidence to 100% prove the call on the field wrong...so I will take it. Just wanted to clarify those rule interpretations.


Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam

[3]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:16 PM
 

Can you find definitive language about the pylon and what is in and out of bounds? I looked and found language on touchbacks, etc. but no details on what is or is not in bounds.

Extrapolating the field goal rule to the pylon is obviously not correct...

If a ball in any way touches the pylon while in the hands of a player who has not gone out of bounds it is a TD. Does not have to be the inside of the pylon - could be the top, outside, inside, middle, etc. The pylon and 100% of its surfaces are in bounds.


Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam

[3]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:37 PM
 

For once and for all the pylon is in bounds. PERIOD
It is just like the foul pole in baseball. If you hit it with the ball it is fair. I don't know where all you people get part of the pylon is in play and part is not. It is ALL in play.

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Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 7:20 PM
 

Correct!


You are missing the critical point...

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 4:25 PM
 

The pylon is NOT out of bounds- it is in bounds. If a player carrying the ball touches any part of the ball to any part of the pylon, the ball is deemed to be in bounds when it breaks the plane of the goal line. The rest of your statement is correct: "the ball passed over the pylon." The only thing wrong was your conclusion, because you incorrectly stated that the pylon was OB.

this video analysis is the best thing I've seen, but it's unnecessary... the call on the field STANDS.

If you want to rationalize from aTm's standpoint, just conclude that it was a "make-up" for the 20+ offensive holding penalties against the aTm tackles that went UNCALLED.

2018 orange level member

Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 4:37 PM
 

This is completely wrong.
A ball that goes directly over the uprights would, if lower, hit the upright and not go thru them
Therefore - no good

A ball that goes directly over the pylon would, if lower, hit the pylon, and it you touch the pylon with the ball it's considered crossing the plane. Good.


You cannot equate the pylon with the uprights of the goal


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 4:54 PM
 

posts. The goal posts and the pylon are two different entities. The goal posts do not define a boundary. The rule on a field goal (or extra point) is that the ball must pass "between" the uprights. If the ball strikes an upright and "bounces back" or "bounces away" then the ball does not pass between the uprights. Regarding the pylon, the ball does not have to pass "between" the pylon and the sideline... it simply needs to "contact" the sideline inbounds.

2018 orange level member

Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 6:11 PM
 

Tiger TV said:

A ball that goes directly over an upright is not a successful field goal attempt. The ball, in its entirety, has to be completely inside both uprights (or the vertical plane extending above them).

Similarly, if the ball goes directly over the pylon, it, like the pylon itself, is out of bounds. A player who touches the ball on the inside the pylon (typically on a diving play running towards the front corner of the end zone) is considered to have broken the vertical plane established by the goal line. The ball hits that plane (the edge of the end zone line that is closest to the field of play) before it hits the pylon itself, therefore, it is a touchdown.

This video, if the angles and math work is true and the ball actually did go directly over the pylon, proves the call on the field was wrong.

Regardless, they didn't have video evidence to 100% prove the call on the field wrong...so I will take it. Just wanted to clarify those rule interpretations.


Talk about double talk-----You are correct about the goal posts but incorrect about the pylon. The vertical plane goes from the outer edges of both pylons across the field, thus making the call correct.The play was pretty obvious that the ball crossed the pylon and landed out of bounds, if the replay crew(SEC) could have reversed it --they would have.


I’m not the smartest man in the world but

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:42 AM
 

you simply cannot tell at which point the ball goes out of bounds when your camera angle is offset of the sideline. Same thing with N.C. St a couple of years ago. In both instances I initially thought the calls may have been bad because of the viewing angle we were give and once I saw the best viewing angles later I agreed with the refs in both instances. Once I saw the pylon cam Saturday I was sure the refs made the right call simply because it was much easier to see the trajectory on the ball but at the end of the day people still see what they want to see no matter how much evidence is given to them.

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Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 8:44 PM
 

Another angle.. from the many photographers in that corner. In any case, this game was not won or lost on one play.


Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 8:56 PM
 

Lmao, that is the most pathetic shot anyone could try using. Notice that shot is after the players have already toppled the pylon with their bodies? Unless the ball magically floated backwards, I believe the ball is way past the pylon by that freeze frame... Since it was way in front of both of them and knocked forward. Smdh.


Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:49 PM
 

I think what the picture demonstrates is the path of the ball relative to the pylon.


Re: I thought it was conclusive after seeing the pylon cam


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:59 PM
 

Maybe this is a better angle for you, with pre toppled pylon.


Any idea what this guy predicts about joining the big 12?***

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:16 AM
 



military_donation.jpg

Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:35 AM
 

Also interesting to see that K-von Wallace (#12) is immediately telling the ref the ball went out of the endzone........AND....look at Wallace's unobstructed "head/eye view" over the ball carrier's shoulder when the ball is in air and crossing the pylon. He had the perfect view and was already confronting the Ref about a Touchback !!!!


Crump, why are y’all so sensitive about this play?


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 9:46 AM
 

We won the game, move on.

2018 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 10:09 AM
 

There’s always a good chance of an excuse or controversy from “SEC fans” any time we beat an SEC team. Which is pretty much every time we play one.


2 games in and I’m already wearing this out

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 10:23 AM
 

https://youtu.be/so49WpSj9bo


You got my vote for best TigerNet post


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 11:12 AM
 

EVER!

2018 orange level member

He also has an interesting version of Eye of the Tiger.


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 2:08 PM
 

And the Sultans of Swing is pretty funny.


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 11:02 AM
 

I believed after seeing the pylon cam that when it left the screen, the trajectory took it over the pylon, which is considered in-bounds and therefore through the endzone. We are analyzing this after many times watching this. The referees did so in an few moments. The thing that made this work was the initial call being for us so the room for error had to be clear to reverse it. We won we go on. Didn't hurt that when the guy was reaching for the end zone it moved more into the playing field when it was released and no other force was acting on the ball after that.


Whine all you want SEC fans, we win you LOSE!!!


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 11:39 AM
 

If the ball goes directly over the pylon, it, like the pylon itself, is out of bounds. A player who touches the ball on the inside the pylon (typically on a diving play running towards the front corner of the end zone) is considered to have broken the vertical plane established by the goal line. The ball hits that plane (the edge of the end zone line that is closest to the field of play) before it hits the pylon itself, therefore, it is a touchdown.

This video, if the angles and math work is true and the ball actually did go directly over the pylon, proves the call on the field was wrong.

Regardless, like you said, they didn't have video evidence to 100% prove the call on the field wrong...so I will take it. Just wanted to clarify those rule interpretations.


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game

[1]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:02 PM
 

From what I just read it seems that it is considered out-of-bounds and regardless of the location of the ball is considered to be IN the endzone. So out-of-bounds and in the endzone would be a touchback. Correct?


Tiger TV .....you don’t know squat


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:33 PM
 

When the pylons are placed on the field for play, they are placed with one edge inside the end zone and the other edge in bounds.

You might be too young to remember before pylons we had a red flag on a spring that was 3-4 inches in the ground inside a cylinder. Same situation, it was considered inside the end zone.

Take your case to the SEC Network.


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:54 PM
 

https://247sports.com/college/texas-tech/Article/NCAA-Rule-Changes-Part-3-104823076/


Goal Line Plane Extension changed.

Now the Goal line plane runs between the pylons, and includes the entire pylon. The plane no longer exists beyond the pylons except in two specific cases: (a) When a ball carrier touches the pylon, and (b) when the ball carrier touches the ground in the end zone.

https://rulebook.github.io/en/interpretations/rules/8/
RULE 8 - Scoring :: NCAA Football Rules Online


I. Team A’s fumble strikes the pylon at the intersection of Team B’s goal line and sideline. RULING: Touchback. Team B’s ball at the 20-yard line (Rules 7-2-4-c and 4-2-3-b). They will consider going over the pylon the same as striking the pylon. Only its height in the air affects it not striking it.


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 4:32 PM
 

As my previous post said, if you start with a bad assumption (that the pylon is OB) then you arrive at a bad conclusion (that the ball going over the pylon was OB). Nice try, but the pylon is 100% IN BOUNDS.

Tigers win!

2018 orange level member

Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 4:45 PM
 

As my previous post said, if you start with a bad assumption (that the pylon is OB) then you arrive at a bad conclusion (that the ball going over the pylon was OB). Nice try, but the pylon is 100% IN BOUNDS.

Tigers win!

2018 orange level member

This is dragging out longer than Serena's hissy fit.***


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 1:56 PM
 




CK1

Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game

[2]
Posted: Sep 14, 2018 2:11 PM
 

For what it’s worth, I was at the game standing in the same end zone but opposite side and from my vantage point I thought it the play was a touchback. A&M replayed several angles which made the ball appear to have crossed over the pylon; however, the overhead camera replay showed a shot above where the ball clearly looked going out at the Clemson 1 1/2 yard line. When that video angle was played in front of 104,000 people, a huge roar from the TAMU fan base electrified Kyle Field and even I thought the refs were going to reverse the call. When the call stood, I let out a sigh of relief, as any lesser team would have been throwing debris on their field to protest the call. Bottom line is what Dabo said - kid holds onto to ball, no issue. TAMU was the classiest away game crowd I’ve ever experienced, and I hope that when they visit us next year at Death Valley, we’ll reciprocate just the same. Go Tigers!


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 5:27 PM
 

I don't know how many games you have been to in DV, but I have been to plenty, and I have never seen a visiting fan being mistreated, not even coot or UGA fans!!!

2018 white level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 3:17 PM
 

Several points...the call on the field was touchback, and IMO it was too close to overturn the call on the field.If called out on the field, it would have stood also. Second point is TA&M got the ball back and scored, but failed to score the 2 point conversion, which likely they do not if the call had been made that it went out prior to the goal line. The end result would have probably been the same. A final point needs to be made that Clemson should have never allowed the game to be so close that a referee call could influence the outcome in the first place. Clemson needs to quit admiring their SI covers and cowboy hats, and realize that the other team came to play. These kids are very subject to letting their press clippings make them think that they can phone in a win. Hope this serves as a wake-up call for the tigers, who should have dominated that game. If not, Clemson has 0 chance to beat Bama or UGA in the playoffs. It will require maximum effort to do so, and the weakness of the Clemson secondary was exposed in this game in a bad way. We got the win, but it sure does not make Clemson look like a #2 ranked team, not even a top 5 team. It mainly showed areas that need improvement. Even Dabo could see that, and said they were not a great team yet.


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 6:47 PM
 

I think everyone knows that the play was a --Play stands---call from the outset. As to your point about Clemson not letting the game be close enough to come down to one play---wake up, this was the 2nd game-1st road game and hostile environment. Kids in college react to momentum swings and turnovers, if we don't fumble on the one, different game. One other thing, Clemson's weakness was exposed by a lot of holding and allowing extra time--Simmons was dropping the QB as he flung a pass to the end zone for TD---a taller receiver out jumped triple coverage by 2 inches, TD, Wallace played a ball perfectly and it deflected to their receiver----all of this happened in favor of A&M. The biggest problem I have is on our final punt we did not produce, our punter has enough ability to get us a 40 plus punt in that situation---he kicked it short and out of bounds(which stopped the clock) this is where we need work.


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 4:50 PM
 

I hate it came down to a call, but that was the most helpful and convincing analysis I’ve seen. Thanks, fiveyorks.


Re: TNET: WATCH: Video analysis of touchback during Texas A&M game


Posted: Sep 14, 2018 6:14 PM
 

W for Clemson.

Go Tigers!!!

2018 white level member

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