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Topic: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City
Replies: 28   Last Post: Jun 17, 2019 4:40 PM by: Harley®
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Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City

[1]
Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:18 PM
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Of Clemson zoning board is allowing apartment developers to destroy Clemson. If they don’t stop it soon in 10 years the city will be just apartments and have the look and feel of a shopping mall, in my opinion it’s already gone too far.





Check out this article from Independent Mail:

354-bed apartment building could replace Blue Heron, other businesses in Clemson

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/06/14/373-bedrooms-could-replace-blue-heron-others-clemson-college-avenue/1454673001/



Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:20 PM
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Supply vs Demand


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City

[2]
Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:25 PM
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There is also this thing called controlled growth and zoning, Clemson doesn’t appear to have either and the city is staring to look like one big apartment complex in Atlanta.


If you enforce controlled growth with zoning


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:28 PM
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then real estate developers will threaten lawsuits and the city council will give in. Powdersville is a prime example of that.

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Re: If you enforce controlled growth with zoning


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:33 PM
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So some more $900/mo student housing?


Re: If you enforce controlled growth with zoning


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:52 PM
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Financed by the Department of Education in the form of a student loan.


Everyone graduates with 90k in student loans these days***

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019 10:21 AM
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There's something in these hills.


Re: If you enforce controlled growth with zoning


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:33 PM
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Just do what we did in Fort Mill and pass a $19500 impact fee for single family and something like $11500 per unit for multi family. Sure, the developers just pass the cost along but maybe it will slow things some. Even if not, at least you’ll have some funds for roads and infrastructure. Has held up legally so far.


have you seen downtown Greenville in the last 2/3 years?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 8:51 AM
    Reply

it happens fast. And if there's money to be made development will find a way. No matter how hard you push against it. you may be able to tamp it down for a little bit but you'll find its just a waste of your time b/c it will eventually go through.


Re: have you seen downtown Greenville in the last 2/3 years?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 9:44 AM
    Reply

Oh yeah, Greenville has gotten horrific. Literally thousands of apartments and that bunch on the corner of Main and Stone are an abomination to the eye. Look like post-war Germany. What a color combo, grey and baby pooh!


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:33 PM
    Reply

I will guess this growth/ upgrades are somewhat related to the success Clemson has had (and expected to have) in football.


No, it’s all driven by student loan money!

[3]
Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:49 PM
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Student loans include money for living expenses, students are going into huge debt to live in them. Financing living expenses is the stupidest thing our government has ever done and we’re going to have an educational bubble burst soon.


Re: No, it’s all driven by student loan money!


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 8:45 AM
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Thanks to hope and change!

2019 purple level member


What is this nonsense?


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 2:28 PM
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The loan company doesn't make you take out the maximum loan amount. They don't care where you stay or what you use the money on.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 10:56 PM
    Reply

This somewhat reminds me of when I attended in the late 60's. If you were wealthy enough, and maybe not a freshman, then you could possibly get into the high-priced high-rise dorms. Others like me had to settle for Johnstone. Now some of Johnstone actually had A/C, but it cost more, so those with less money had to settle for the hot dorms. I think there were even some cheaper housing on campus, but were for married couples (not sure). And of course, if you were not a freshman, you could live off campus if you could afford that housing.

So it just boiled down to the old supply/demand thing that one poster mentioned. The point is, the idea is still the same, but is just changing the paint a little. Those who have the funds might typically demand the better places. Nothing has changed IMO.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 11:04 PM
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The issue is it’s being driven by student loan debt and that system is out of control.


I was there 68-72, and the high-rises weren't very expensive


Posted: Jun 16, 2019 11:04 PM
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Only about $150 more per semester than the tin cans! And they had AC and phones!

2019 white level member

$150 was a lot back then ...***


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 12:30 PM
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Equivalent of about $1,000 today.

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Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019 7:30 AM
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Clemson's student population has exploded (14000 undergrads in 2008; over 19,000 in 2018), but the on-campus housing availability has remained stagnant. At some point it becomes a space issue--if you build more dorms, you also have to build more parking lots, and both will be increasingly distant from campus.

Personally I feel the administration has made a deal with the devil to outsource housing. It's a disturbing trend.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City

[1]
Posted: Jun 17, 2019 7:32 AM
    Reply

The old "College Town" appearance we once had has now disappeared. Traffic is a nightmare and will continue to get worse. The proposed development at the former Holiday Inn site would have a definite impact on the traffic flow on that stretch of US 123 & US 76. Because of the lake, there is not an easy solution to the construction of a bypass around the city. A further delay in a solution to the traffic problem will be impacted by the growth of housing developments, both family homes and apartment units, in the immediate area.

When discussing the number of units in an apartment complex, double that number for the number of people in each unit and that will give us a better idea of the impact of a 350 unit complex. Sewer capacity and other utilities create additional demands that add to long range planning.

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Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 7:51 AM
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Clemson urban planner here...

I am ok with this. It is better than what exists.

Back in the early 2000s both Clemson and Central kinda made a pact. They pushed large student development out of the "City of Clemson" and out towards Central. That also left some area in Clemson to allow developers to put in luxury condos for the football elite. The good thing is that it kinda preserved the 80/90 era of Clemson but at the same time it created....

TRAFFIC. Horrific traffic.

You now created thousands of students that had to commute via car multiple times a day and thus also needed parking. I know, I counted trips on CAT from the UV and Reserve and there was less than 100 trips a day but well over 1000+ folks in the UV, I forgot how many the Reserve had. That was before some of the other development too. You then took the area close to Clemson and only filled it 7 weeks of the year as there were huge "deadspots" during basketball season/class time/summer. Nice buildings, few folks in them with be the more prototypical student as if anything what Clemson needs are post-student housing/grad student housing. That is a market that was lacking as either the 20 something married/etc crowd was often price out of the 2 bedroom homes due to tailgaters or (naturally) did not want to live in those 4 bedroom undergrad "pay by the room" apartments.

Fast-forward 20 years and now Clemson is kinda trying reverse that trend. Still, this isn't really core student housing, this is more high-end student housing/tailgating spots. It might start creating a vacuum that might help.

That development needs to go as that was a generic usa of a shed of a block. Can't wait for the "save the stripmall of Clemson" movement. My guess is that the tenants here are the class of '65-'75 that want to move back to Clemson but do not want to mow the yard. Just a guess but that is my take.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 8:14 AM
    Reply

That is what I thought was happening but did not know about the "pact". You can see that UV is well under populated. I also know someone that owns a 2 bedroom condo at Tillman Place that was originally designed for 4 students but he has only been able to rent to 2 for several years because the trend is for each person to have their own bedroom. You're also right about the affordability - watch the demographics of the students walking to Village Green and to the apartments beyond the underpass.

What are solutions? I think the City and University need to work together to make it more desirable to live on campus and less desirable to live off campus:
* University dorms more like off campus apartments (for Sophomores and above) with comparable amenities (including a Pool) and where each student gets their own bathroom.
* More CAT routes and buses with a bus only lane where feasible.
* No more variances for construction.
* Revise requirements - including type of construction (no wood if over 2 stories) and required parking spots
* The city need to buy Keowee trail and expand the park
* Housing puts a lot more burden on the infrastructure than other businesses. The city needs to charge a hefty per bed or per bathroom fee on all new construction in the city. This will help raise the money for the infrastructure and encourage businesses like the Blue Heron vs. more condos/apartments.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 8:28 AM
    Reply

Yes, developing on campus housing would be the best solution. Expanding CAT... well, how about they stop subsidizing Seneca with student dollars...

As for the infrastructure. Putting a apt complex on College is likely less of a burden than elsewhere as I bet the city is geared for that development/taxbase and has been for the past 10 years. High density is cheaper than low density (such as Edgewood/Dogwood behind it)

As for the UV in particular, that is a bigger item. When those apartments came online, there was an exodus to them creating a housing vacuum along the older apartments on College. However, you could still walk to campus, had a easier transit trip, so International students without cars grabbed those spots. However, the UV does not have that location item, there are newer apts in the area that are closer. So thus much less demand. However, 50% occupancy at this time is a non-ssue for them as at 10+ years they are paid for and few people means less maint costs now.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 8:59 AM
    Reply

Edgewood/Dogwood is a residential area with single family homes and I certainly hope the city doesn't allow rezoning and killing the only true neighborhood left near downtown. I grew up in that area and my parents still live there. When they are out of town for more than 1-2 days they have to let the water run because of the dirt in it. They called the city about this and the guys from the water department came out but said the water pipes in that area are 30-40 years old and have numerous leaks that let in dirt. So much for a solid infrastructure.

Single families and the university ought to be able to co-exist. When all the single families are pushed out of the core of Clemson it will truly collapse as there will be no one left to care.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 10:38 AM
    Reply

If it’s any consolation this is the norm around many college campuses. I live near Boone and Appalachian State is doing the same thing as Clemson. There is a constant building spree within the town of Boone and has been for years.

A lot of families choose to buy a condo to house their children while they are students and sell them once the kids have moved on. It is a good investment if you have the funds available to make the initial purchase. Parking is certainly the big issue around Clemson and this is only going to get worse as growth increases. Large parking garages are probably just around the corner. The university is growing by leaps and bounds and with this expansion comes major problems. I would hate to have the job of trying to improve the parking and traffic flow around campus!
Game day is a problem now and you know that will not improve quickly. The highway patrol does an amazing job on football Saturdays.


Re: Does Clemson University not offer student housing? The City


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 10:50 AM
    Reply

Yeah, that neighborhood used to be "Planner's row" as much of the city and regional planning faculty lived there. Otherwise, many of the Deans, etc consumed that housing area. I was just using it as an example that likely the city recoups less from the taxbase to provide city services of that area as compared to the condos on College Ave. So yeah, I see the city being slow to replace stuff as it takes longer to cover the cost based on the taxes. Shrug.


Those kids need to get smart and Airbnb their place at games


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 1:32 PM
    Reply

As a college kid, I would have happily crashed at a friend's place on weekends to make a few bucks renting out my room for gameday. I'm sure their contract doesn't allow it, but seems to be an untapped market with the large # of gameday travelers and limited hotel rooms.

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I doubt the opportunity cost of building more student...


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 2:36 PM
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housing facilities is anywhere close to the real opportunity of taking all that loan money from kids lusting for quality educations.

There's half a dozen other economic issues with CU trying to house future generations of students too.

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Growth, development, changes


Posted: Jun 17, 2019 4:37 PM
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I graduated from Clemson is 1972 so the town and city where I went to school are long gone. Such is progress. Clemson University has gotten bigger and better since my days as a student. The downtown has changed radically since I was a student and nostalgia being what it is, it's easy for me to say I liked it better then than now. But now is pretty nice. Alumni are moving back, buying houses nearby and paying a good deal to live near Clemson. That was not happening much in 1970.

Given the economic realities of a growing institution and a growing economy, I like the fact the private landowners near the school have been able to make money because they owned a valuable asset near a place to which people are drawn.

I dislike the idea of too much government and too many people with no real stake in the place dictating what the City of Clemson should look like and what sort of development is good and what sort is bad. To me that sounds like too much central planning and I don't see that as the mark of a free economy. I am glad there are decent motels, restaurants, and so forth in and near Clemson now. If enough alumni want to own a condo overlooking Bowman Field, it's fine with me if private industry builds the condos and the owners of that land benefit from the growth.

There are a lot of small towns across South Carolina that are clearly in the process of dying. I'm glad Clemson is not such a town. I think the development near Clemson is a lot like development near any place with a robust economy. Trying to halt robust growth seems a bad idea to me.

I am no expert on student debt load. The websites that track such indebtedness seem to say that the student population at Clemson is holding their debt down better than most places. I live in Charlotte and the hordes of people moving here looking for good jobs and comfortable places to live are NOT financing their condos with government assisted student debt. FWIW, the apartments being built for the private sector in Charlotte look a whole lot like those going up in Clemson. That makes me suspicious of the idea student debt is funding the growth in Clemson. There is a market in Clemson for condos and apartments. Demand creates supply. And even if some of the growth is funded by student debt, it's a bit big brother-ish to try to tell other people how to live their lives, isn't it?

So mark me down as pro-growth, pro-development and of the opinion most of America including Clemson is better today than it was 50 years ago.

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