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110%er [8083]
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How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 8:36 AM
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How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" together in a union effect your marriage?
Why should the goverment only offer benefits to some couples based solely on their religious beliefs?
Here are a few rights afforded by the goverment to "married" couples that gays are fighting for
Tax Benefits
•Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
•Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
Estate Planning Benefits
•Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
•Receiving an exemption from both estate ta
xes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
•Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
•Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.
Government Benefits
•Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
•Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
•Receiving public assistance benefits.
Employment Benefits
•Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
•Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
•Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
•Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.
Medical Benefits
•Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
•Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
Death Benefits
•Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
•Making burial or other final arrangements.
Family Benefits
•Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
•Applying for joint foster care rights.
•Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
•Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
Housing Benefits
•Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
•Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
Consumer Benefits
•Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
•Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
•Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
Other Legal Benefits and Protections
•Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
•Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
•Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
•Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
•Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
•Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.
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CU Guru [1357]
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 8:38 AM
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Bingo. How is allowing the government to legislate people's personal lives even a conservative value?
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CU Guru [1123]
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too much logic for TNET
Aug 2, 2012, 8:38 AM
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nm
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All-TigerNet [10400]
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 8:47 AM
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If you can't recreate then F.U.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 10:27 AM
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What a well formed and thought out logical argument.
By the way, sterile people can't "recreate". So "F.U." to them too right?
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Virtuoso [670]
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and old people. and children. they can't PROcreate either.
Aug 2, 2012, 2:32 PM
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fuggem all.
seriously, if you want to screw over one person, the easiest way to do it is fall on the sword too and screw over everyone.
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110%er [8083]
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110%er [8083]
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If your marriage is based on the "Biblical Marriage".....
Aug 2, 2012, 8:50 AM
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Are you following through on what a biblical marriage is or are you goinng by what you feel is right for you?
Marriage in a biblical sense, please read the following passages below.
- Marriage consists of one man and one or more than one woman: Gen 4:19, 4:23, 26:34, 28:9, 29:26-30, 30:26, 31:17, 32:22, 36:2, 36:10, 37:2; Ex. 21:10; Judges 8:30; 1 Sam 1:2, 25:43, 27:3, 30:5, 30:18; 2 Sam 2:2, 3:2-5; 1 Chron. 3:1-3, 4:5, 8:8, 14:3; 2 Chron. 11:21, 13:2
1, 24:3
- Nothing prevents a man from taking on concubines, sexual slaves, or prostitutes, in addition to the wife or wives that he may already have or choose to have: Gen 25:6; Judges 8:31; 2 Sam 5:13; 1 Kings 11:3; 1 Chron. 3:9; 2 Chron. 11:21; Dan. 5:2-3
- A man may choose any woman he wants for his wife (Gen 6:2; Deut. 21:11), provided only that she is not already another man’s wife (Lev. 18:14-16; Deut. 22:30), or a relative (Lev. 18:11, 18:18, 20:14, 20:17). The concept of a woman giving her consent to being married is not in the Bible.
- If a woman cannot be proven to be a virgin at the time of marriage, she should be stoned to death: (Deut. 22:13-21)
- A rapist must marry his victim (Ex. 22:16; Deut. 22:28-29), unless she was already betrothed, in which case he should be put to death if he raped her in the country, but both of them killed if he raped her in the town (Deut. 22:23-27).
- If a man dies childless, his brother must marry the widow: Gen. 38:6-10; Deut. 25:5-10; Mark 12:19; Luke 20:28
- Women must marry the man of their father’s choosing: Gen. 24:4; Josh. 15:16-17; Judges 1:12-13, 12:9, 21:1; 1 Sam. 17:25, 18:19; 1 Kings 2:21; 1 Chron. 2:35; Jer. 29:6; Dan. 11:17
- Women are the property of their fathers until married and the property of their husbands thereafter: Ex. 20:17, 22:17; Deut. 22:24; Mat. 22:25
- The value of a woman might be approximately seven years’ work: Gen. 29:14-30
- Inter-faith marriages are prohibited. Gen. 24:3, 28:1, 28:6; Num. 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh. 10:30; 2 Cor. 6:14
- Divorce is forbidden: Deut. 22:19; Mat. 5:32, 19:9; Mark 10:9-12; Luke 16:18; Rom. 7:2; 1 Cor. 7:10-11, 7:39
- It is better to not get married at all – although marriage is not a sin: Mat. 19:10; 1 Cor. 7:1, 7:27-28, 7:32-34, 7:38
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Orange Blooded [3909]
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Oh you just hush yo'MOUF!***
Aug 2, 2012, 8:52 AM
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Legend [19586]
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Re: If your marriage is based on the "Biblical Marriage".....
Aug 2, 2012, 8:53 AM
[ in reply to If your marriage is based on the "Biblical Marriage"..... ] |
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Only verse relative today is the las two. All the others are from the old covenant...I don't get why modern Christians can't understand that the old law is gone....
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Orange Blooded [3909]
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So it's ok to throw the old one away now?
Aug 2, 2012, 8:55 AM
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LOL....who says?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: So it's ok to throw the old one away now?
Aug 2, 2012, 9:00 AM
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You oviously don't understand the fundamentals of Christianity and the Bible. There's a new convenant. That old covenant went away after the crucifixion. Go read your Bible buddy.
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Orange Blooded [3909]
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Hmmmm...let's not get personal here big boy.
Aug 2, 2012, 9:05 AM
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We obviously have a difference in opinion.
So your church obviously doesn't 'use' the old testament anymore. Curious on the version of the NT you do use.
In the NT did Jesus not say he came to fulfill the old testament? Not abolish it? The scriptures all pointed to Him?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to know quite a bit.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Hmmmm...let's not get personal here big boy.
Aug 2, 2012, 9:17 AM
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Churches should use the old covenant. And they do. It tells the story of where we are now.
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CU Guru [1723]
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BIG Difference
Aug 2, 2012, 9:20 AM
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In being informed by the old covenant and being held to it. Jesus came to fulfill the old covenant because we could not. As Paul said, all the law can do it point out my sin (paraphrased), not save.
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Orange Blooded [3909]
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OK...right...but alas that's not really the argument...
Aug 2, 2012, 9:22 AM
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...the other dude made.
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110%er [8083]
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That old covenant is what
Aug 2, 2012, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: So it's ok to throw the old one away now? ] |
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That old covenant is what most christians use against gays. Are you saying you can pick and choose what parts of the old covenant you want to follow?
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Rooter [222]
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Re: That old covenant is what
Aug 2, 2012, 9:11 AM
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No my friend, it isn`t what most christians use. Read the book of Romans. That is where God makes it clear what his view of the subject is.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: That old covenant is what
Aug 2, 2012, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to That old covenant is what ] |
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"you shouldn't follow the laws of the old covenant...Even Jesus directed as so....go read your Bible..."
I need to edit what I said here. It came out the wrong way. You SHOULD follow the COMMANDMENTS of the old testament, but the way to salvation has changed. The LAWS are gone! There is now free will...no "laws" to abide by but commandments, personal commandments....
The old covenant was made up of laws and the only way to forgiveness was through sacrifice and blood. Now, after the cruxifiction, Jesus' blood has forgiven all sins. People have free will to continue to sin or follow God's commandments and repent, accepting the sacrifice....
My point is, pushing govt to make laws against the sins you don't like is a contridicition of the cruxifiction.
Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®
Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®
Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®
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CU Guru [1263]
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Re: That old covenant is what
Aug 2, 2012, 10:02 AM
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"My point is, pushing govt to make laws against the sins you don't like is a contridicition of the cruxifiction."
I had never thought about it in those terms. I "abstained" from the NC vote earlier this year because I don't agree with the government ruling how anyone chooses to live their private lives, but also, as a Christian, I couldn't cast a vote in support of something I don't agree with. Had I thought about it in the manner you just I may have actually voted.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: That old covenant is what
Aug 2, 2012, 10:10 AM
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My political views in terms of laws are always based on "what is best for society and/or what prohibits the liberty of another"...
For example, I'm morally against gay marriage, but if two people want to marry and an organization is ok with holding it, it isn't my business, God have mercy on them.
If someone wants to drugs they are an idiot but it isn't my business or anyone else's. Doesn't affect anyone else, only them (simple act of doing drugs). Shouldn't be illegal.
etc.
Jesus commanded us to spread the gospel, witness and love the sinner. Not call them homos and make laws forcing them to be "good Christians".
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Both the Old and New Testaments condemn homosexualality.
Aug 2, 2012, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to That old covenant is what ] |
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At least in my Bible.
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Rooter [222]
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Re: So it's ok to throw the old one away now?
Aug 2, 2012, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: So it's ok to throw the old one away now? ] |
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Now, you know that reading the bible and pulling out scriptures is just to easy. Obama said I don`t own my house. That`s what he said. His exact words you know. Oh, wait ..... context, darn!!!
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Fan [94]
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110%er [8083]
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Im sorry, I didnt mean to make you question your marriage **
Aug 2, 2012, 9:00 AM
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.....
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CU Guru [1723]
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Nice copy and paste...not very intelligent though...
Aug 2, 2012, 9:22 AM
[ in reply to If your marriage is based on the "Biblical Marriage"..... ] |
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Just taking something from a pro-gay marriage website without vetting and posting it is probably not smart, but maybe it makes you feel that way.
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All-TigerNet [10169]
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Have you vetted it??? If so which one isn't correct since
Aug 2, 2012, 4:38 PM
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you spoke out about it...
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Asst Coach [721]
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All-TigerNet [10169]
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Whic one was taken out of context?? And I don't mean your
Aug 2, 2012, 4:39 PM
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version of it..
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CU Guru [1277]
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Most of those passages don't mean what you state they do
Aug 2, 2012, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to If your marriage is based on the "Biblical Marriage"..... ] |
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Seek the TRUTH; not what you want to believe. Look at all that Scripture again and ask God with a sincere heart what He is saying, and you will see and know the Living God. Consider for a moment that when the Bible says someone did something, such as taking a concubine or another wife that it is not saying that is good. It's telling you what someone did or describing a norm of that culture. The man after God's own heart, David, did much evil, which gives me hope cause I'm just as messed up. Unless God says he approves or dissaproves of something we must be very careful when we attempt to read God's mind.
Some of your conclusions are correct. A believer should not be yoked to an unbeliever. I would say marriage is as close as we can get to being yoked  . God hates divorce, and it's a shame and dissappointment that it's so common with Christians. I came as close as you can get to it happening me to me, but God changed hearts and preserved my family to which I am ever thankful.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 8:51 AM
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Marriage is a religious entity and government shouldn't acknowledge marriage at all. The only reason they do is for tax purposes, which I'm against anyway.
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110%er [8083]
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 8:57 AM
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If true, then the goveremnt should change it to a "civil union" between two people thus allowing the benefits to all.
Marriages could then be controlled through the church without any benefits from the goverment.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 9:00 AM
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government shouldn't "change" it to anything. Government should stay out of it.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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I don't need a church or a goverment to ratify my marriage
Aug 2, 2012, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" ....... ] |
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They are just largely ceremonial events anyway.
I'd be with the same woman today if we had a vegas elvis marry us rather than our preacher in our church. We obviously chose a church to affirm our committment but we could have done that with any venue and witnesses.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Exactly. Government has voluntarily over time given benefits
Aug 2, 2012, 9:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" ....... ] |
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to married people and families because government benefits from a stable and predictable tax base. Every benefit couples/families have is either common sense or Constitutional or was given freely. I know of none that were lobbied for or gained at the harm of others.
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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those reasons and the desire for stable nuclear families.***
Aug 2, 2012, 8:31 PM
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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sorry...nucular.***
Aug 2, 2012, 9:34 PM
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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With the right paperwork you can do most of those things
Aug 2, 2012, 8:53 AM
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Employment benefits are often given to same sex couples, estate planning can be done with same sex couples with the right wills and trusts, with a medical power of attorney you can have same sex couples make key medical decisions, consumer benefits are granted by the companies not by the goverment, family, housing and other benefits as well.
Sounds to me that if the IRS would just fix their tax code and Social Security would fix their benefits the problem would be largly solved other than arguing about the defintion of a word.
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Hall of Famer [24777]
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Oh, please. Quit with being LOGICAL. I can't stand it.***
Aug 2, 2012, 2:41 PM
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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CU Medallion [51535]
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Give them all of that, but call it something different.
Aug 2, 2012, 8:54 AM
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Because two dudes doesn't equal a marriage.
Marriage: The union of a man and a woman.
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All-In [47841]
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The Lounge is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>***
Aug 2, 2012, 9:02 AM
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110%er [8083]
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This thread was posted in The Amphitheatre NOT
Aug 2, 2012, 9:09 AM
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This thread was posted in The Amphitheatre NOT Tiger Boards!
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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excuse me but I believe your soapbox belongs somewhere
Aug 2, 2012, 9:09 AM
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else...please
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110%er [8083]
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The Amphitheatre Discuss non-sports related Clemson Topics
Aug 2, 2012, 9:13 AM
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This topic was posted in The Amphitheatre. if you do not like the subject matter, then stay out!
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Rock Defender [53]
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You keep creating new threads to argue the same dead horse***
Aug 2, 2012, 9:49 AM
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110%er [8083]
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You keep responding, so whats your point? *******
Aug 2, 2012, 10:12 AM
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.....
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Rock Defender [53]
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110%er [8083]
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Nope, hes a Bible Thumper ***
Aug 2, 2012, 2:51 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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I'm agnostic, this is about free speech and 1st amend to me***
Aug 2, 2012, 2:53 PM
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Athletic Dir [880]
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 9:28 AM
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Marry your dog if you'd like.
We all with have to answer to the almighty one someday. You make your decisions and you have to live with the consequences.
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110%er [8083]
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Typical mainstream christian response
Aug 2, 2012, 9:38 AM
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No one is asking to marry a dog. Why do mainstream christians keep tossing that around in response to fellow humans requesting equal rights?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Why do liberals continue to call privileges rights?***
Aug 2, 2012, 9:50 AM
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Why do liberals continue to call privileges rights?***
Aug 2, 2012, 9:57 AM
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Marriage isn't a privelege nor a right....it is a religious or personal contract between two human beings.....
Why do you guys continue with this garbage that marriage is something "granted" by govt or everyone else?
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Rock Defender [53]
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As long as it requires a marriage license it is a government
Aug 2, 2012, 2:45 PM
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based privilege.
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Standout [313]
TigerPulse: 91%
Posts: 735
Joined: 10/6/06
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Re: As long as it requires a marriage license it is a government
Aug 2, 2012, 3:02 PM
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So your contention is that that since it's a "privilege" that the government doesn't have to grant it equally to all citizens? Incidentally, driving is a privilege not a right. Would you be ok, for instance, with government regulations banning driving? What about banning driving for certain groups, say middle aged people of, let's say, Polish descent. We all know they're bad drivers (I am obviously kidding here). Surely they don't deserve driver's licenses.
Well, the point is that the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection under the laws. That is to say, if the government extends a privilege to one group of people, but not to another it better have a good reason. Recently, the courts have begun to dismantle the supposed "good reasons" that the government has for limiting marriage to heterosexual couples, and rule that the government has been violating the 14th Amendment.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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States have been voting on this and most including Cali have
Aug 2, 2012, 3:07 PM
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voted NO. If and when it goes before the Supreme Court it will remain as is. A government sanctioned privilege.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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What planet and reality do you live in? The government has
Aug 2, 2012, 9:36 AM
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used policy to shape society from the start. That is the foundation of zoning and why certain tax laws are created. The government has always used subtle forms of discrimination or selective benefits to manipulate people.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3327
Joined: 8/23/02
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So, for the gheys it's all about the money.?***
Aug 2, 2012, 9:51 AM
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Legend [16908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10770
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" .......
Aug 2, 2012, 10:10 AM
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I continue to refute your notion that there is a tax benefit to marriage. This is pure folklore.
In the 2012 tax tables: An individual making $100,000 pays $21,460.50 in taxes. Two, non married individuals making $100,000 each would still each only pay $21460.50. A married couple earning $100,000 each would pay $21889.50 each whether filing jointly or not. That is a $429 marriage penalty - per person. The differential gets larger the more you earn. At lower levels, the tax rates are even - never advantageous to the married filer.
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Orange Blooded [3909]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7986
Joined: 11/30/98
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You need an accountant.***
Aug 2, 2012, 12:47 PM
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Legend [16908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10770
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: You need an accountant.***
Aug 2, 2012, 5:24 PM
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Can you explain where my numbers are wrong? This is pulled directly from the 2012 tax tables and was meant to be a simplistic example. Sorry it didn't conform to your worldview. I know full well few people make $100,000 w/o deductions. But apples to apples there is no benefit to a married filing. But feel free to be a smart ### without backing it up.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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I have a client that is a doctor his wife is a stay at home
Aug 2, 2012, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: How does granting everyone that wants to be "joined" ....... ] |
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mom. The house that she lived in before they got married is now a rental property. The house and note are in her name only. As a married couple they file a joint return, which allows him to take advantage of the losses on paper created by rental properties due to depreciation and liberal deductions. That saves him a lot of taxes as a doctor.
This is just 1 simple example. Leave taxes to those of us with business degrees.
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Legend [16908]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10770
Joined: 1/25/07
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Re: I have a client that is a doctor his wife is a stay at home
Aug 2, 2012, 5:21 PM
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You have no idea what degrees I have so shove your condescending attitude. Yippee, you know someone who took advantage of the tax code! I gave a very specific, cut and dry, apples to apples example that there is no automatic tax benefit to being married. You gave some vague accounting of what a friend did. Guess what, gay people can put their assets in their partners names too genius. They can also "gift" their partner up to a $1,000,000 tax free in a lifetime. Investment income, capital gains, rental income, dividends, etc... are taxed differently, change all the time, and do not offer any specific advantage to married filers.
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All-In [36409]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 21512
Joined: 10/27/03
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Give Them Those Rights But Don't Call it Marriage
Aug 2, 2012, 12:52 PM
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Give them their civil union or some other name and be done with it.
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Orange Blooded [4367]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2642
Joined: 7/14/11
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that's what I originally thought too, but
Aug 2, 2012, 5:33 PM
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Then I came to the conclusion that wasn't truly equal either.then I thought, why don't we just call everything civil unions, and let marriage be named by the individual. Then I talked with some people and they said they would be upset if their marriage (a normal marriage) was called a civil union by the government. They said it wouldn't be the same. Then I asked then if after saying that they understood why gay people didn't want that either.They got really quiet.
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Hall of Famer [24440]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26120
Joined: 9/9/03
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why should the gov't regulate marriage at all? why should
Aug 2, 2012, 8:17 PM
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gov't even be in the marriage business? if someone wants to marry 3 chicks and 2 dudes, who's to say that's wrong?
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COLLEGE: A three-year starter at strong safety for Clemson, finished his career with 234 tackles and 11 interceptions.
