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Replies: 74
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CU Guru [1490]
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Why does Perry Noble get so much attention in here?
Sep 25, 2013, 11:26 AM
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nm
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Rock Defender [53]
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some people (not me) are obsessed with him.
Sep 25, 2013, 11:28 AM
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I once was, but Cam delivered me.
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All-In [30193]
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Re: Why does Perry Noble get so much attention in here?
Sep 25, 2013, 11:30 AM
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All-In [30193]
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Or
Sep 25, 2013, 11:31 AM
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CU Medallion [67844]
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CU Medallion [67844]
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Re: meant above not below
Sep 25, 2013, 11:55 AM
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sorry
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Historian [3859]
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Thats what she said! HAHAHAHAHA
Sep 25, 2013, 12:48 PM
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....................___________________
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Oculus Spirit [83121]
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Heisman Winner [105590]
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He is my spirit animal, the dead horse.
Sep 25, 2013, 11:31 AM
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Here in the Jounge, we beat #### into the ground. He just happens to be one of those things. TehClone is NOT obsessed with him in any way. Alot of times, we bring him up just to get the Thumbs Down from the resident Newspringer.
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Heisman Winner [135609]
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Re: He is my spirit animal, the dead horse.
Sep 25, 2013, 11:39 AM
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All-In [28802]
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Re: Why does Perry Noble get so much attention in here?
Sep 25, 2013, 11:32 AM
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Probably because he's the flamboyant pastor of a large church in the upstate, so he attracts a lot of attention. Why we need multiple posts about him every day with the same people making the same comments in every thread where he's mentioned, I don't know.
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Heisman Winner [135609]
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Can you commission a study?***
Sep 25, 2013, 11:38 AM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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All-In [28802]
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I just don't see how you can call the guy...
Sep 25, 2013, 1:18 PM
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a "blatant con" unless you've just got it out for him from the start, which many of you seem to. Every church has to teach tithing and finances, and every church needs money to survive. It's not like they're different in that way from any other church, with the exception that, as a non- denominational church, they've got to finance everything they do on their own instead of relying on money from a central church body. That, and I suppose, non- denominational churches face bigger financial obstacles because they've usually got a lot more casual attendees who move around than more traditional churches do, where people have grown up going to the same church.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Oh, they're doing just fine in the financial department
Sep 25, 2013, 3:54 PM
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They're far from just surviving off of their tithes, they're thriving...And that's a big part of the criticism...where is the money coming from and where is it going? From what I've read and seen, very little is going to charity and the like.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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Building fund.
Sep 25, 2013, 4:19 PM
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Expand the empire.
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All-In [28802]
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I went and listened to his sermon on tithing...
Sep 25, 2013, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to Oh, they're doing just fine in the financial department ] |
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just to see what they were actually saying, and according to what he said less than 10% of people are tithing.
He also made a point of saying that if people just thought New Spring was trying to take their money, then they should go and give their tithe to another church. And for the people who think New Spring is a cult trying to separate themselves from the Church, he continually identified New Spring with the Christian Church at large.
Honestly, the only thing I was uncomfortable with was his suggestion that there might be financial blessings when we give our lives (our finances being a part of our lives) to God. However, the first blessings that he mentioned were spiritual blessings, and financial blessings were just one of the types of blessings he mentioned. I suppose you could call that legalistic, but the whole point of the sermon was giving everything to God because God can't be outgiven.
Finally, he specifically preached against the prosperity gospel: "I don't believe in prosperity theology, because here's what prosperity theology teaches: you give to God, in order to make him give back to you... The motivation is wrong. We don't give to God just so he'll start giving to us. We should give to God even if he didn't give back to us."
Message was edited by: camcgee®
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Heisman Winner [135609]
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That should help keep the riffraff out of heaven.***
Sep 25, 2013, 4:27 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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All-In [28802]
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I don't know about millions, but...
Sep 25, 2013, 4:46 PM
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they have like 25,000 members, so it would take many of them tithing or a few people offering larger amounts to have a big budget.
I looked through their annual report, and it looks like a large majority of their income comes from tithes and offerings. Apparently they also spend about 10% less on staffing than the average church with more than 10,000 (but, for those who don't care for large churches, this may not be a big deal).
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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110%er [6272]
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would you say that Christ was "flamboyant"?
Sep 25, 2013, 1:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why does Perry Noble get so much attention in here? ] |
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probably not right?
a rebel? yes.
a dissenter? definitely
busted on the religious establishment? bingo
flamboyant? not at all.
he preached humility as much as anything.
we are all missing the mark. but as a pastor of a great following, flamboyant should not be something you would use to describe that leader.
juss sayin'
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All-In [28802]
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John the Baptist was certainly flamboyant...
Sep 25, 2013, 4:10 PM
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as have been many a prophet or pastor since then. And I would say that Christ was pretty flamboyant at times, or at least he probably seemed that way at the time.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [38191]
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I don't trust TV preachers that charge redemption for a
Sep 25, 2013, 11:43 AM
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soul.
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Rock Defender [53]
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money back guarantee brah.
Sep 25, 2013, 11:46 AM
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http://newspring.cc/give/challenge/
"We commit to you that if you tithe for three months and God doesn’t hold true to His promises of blessings, we will refund 100% of your tithe. No questions asked."
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110%er [5156]
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That is unreal.****
Sep 25, 2013, 11:48 AM
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All-In [26968]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Remember the sweet "blessing" life the apostles had?
Sep 25, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Especially Paul...man, that guy had it EASY!
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All-In [26968]
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I'm usually rather disinterested on this topic...but that
Sep 25, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Is bad. Bargaining with God's "blessings"? That is pathetic, and sad that people are falling for it all over the country.
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All-In [29036]
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Couldn't agree more
Sep 25, 2013, 12:03 PM
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I've heard the concept used before and in the right context it makes for an interesting conversation that allows for the explanation and discussion of what exactly is a blessing from God and that they are often (primarily) non-financial.
However, put it in black and white in that form and it sounds nothing short of the prosperity-gospel run amok.
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All-In [26968]
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They are putting themselves on a higher level than God
Sep 25, 2013, 12:07 PM
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When it comes to his money. Give your tithe to the Lord, and we'll decided whether he gets to keep it or not.
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All-In [26968]
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Conversation between Noble and God?
Sep 25, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Noble: Now, God...I've noticed you've been a little slack on your blessing this month. I'm gonna have to reduce your allowance until it picks up.
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All-In [28802]
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Another more charitable interpretation...
Sep 25, 2013, 12:37 PM
[ in reply to They are putting themselves on a higher level than God ] |
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and, I think, the one more consistent with what New Spring seems to be trying to do there, is that they're letting their church members see for themselves how their discipleship is deepened when they tithe, and for those who see no point to it, they're fine with give their money back. Not knowing exactly the context this is in, I can't say for sure, but simply noting that "blessing" will come when we make financial lives doesn't mean they're promising people that they'll get rich and be happy. In fact, in the proper mindset, the sacrifice is itself transformed into a blessing.
However, something like this certainly could encourage the bargaining mindset you mentioned, and that particular page on their website doesn't really discourage it. They are edging a little too close to the "prosperity gospel" heresy of people like Joel Osteen.
For those of you who don't care about this point of theology, though, I would think the fact that they will refund money they're given would convince you that they're not just trying to take people's money.
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Rock Defender [53]
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We live in America. We've had 30 years of pervasive
Sep 25, 2013, 12:44 PM
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TV preaching...more specifically name it and claim it, or prosperity gospel.
What do you think is the connotation that most would see in the word "blessing?"
Even beyond monetary..."blessing" is good things happening to you.
when the gospel simply does not bear that out. The blessing IS Christ...and though he slay me, yet I'll serve him. HE is our blessing.
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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Yeah, I'd be interested to see who actually got their money
Sep 25, 2013, 1:09 PM
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back.
I'd be willing to bet no one
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Rock Defender [53]
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"they say" that no one even asked.
Sep 25, 2013, 1:14 PM
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Cam probably thinks I'm making that up and I didn't hear it first hand from NS leadership.
whatevs.
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All-In [28802]
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I would hope nobody would ask for their money back
Sep 25, 2013, 1:14 PM
[ in reply to Yeah, I'd be interested to see who actually got their money ] |
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But I don't see how they could expect to not give people's money back when they told them they could have it back if they wanted it back and not expect to be publicly exposed.
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All-In [28802]
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All-In [28802]
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110%er [9096]
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Heisman Winner [105590]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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lulz, if that's not a massive red flag for people, I don't
Sep 25, 2013, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to money back guarantee brah. ] |
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know what is. Suckers gonna suck
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All-In [28802]
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Re: lulz, if that's not a massive red flag for people, I don't
Sep 25, 2013, 12:40 PM
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I know the theological red flag that goes up for me when I see something like that, but what's the flag that you're talking about? If you just think these people are in it to make money, wouldn't them saying they'll give you your money back actually tell you differently?
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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No, I've heard of drug dealers offering a money back
Sep 25, 2013, 11:45 AM
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guarantee, too. Offering one is nothing but a marketing gimmick...sure, you'll have a few people that will want their money back, but you'll have even more who don't want to deal with the hassle, and some who will be convinced it actually worked.
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CU Guru [1723]
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CU Guru [1935]
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WAIT. I have a better idea
Sep 25, 2013, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to money back guarantee brah. ] |
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The 100% tithe challenge.
Just have all of your pre-tax income forwarded directly from your employer to Newspring. Because Newspring is a Not For Profit (wink wink), we do not have to pay taxes, and your income will be tax free! I know what you’re thinking: how will I live and eat and support my family? Not to worry! Newspring will provide places for you and your family to live on our compound I MEAN campus. Newspring will provide food as well. Have a car payment to make? Have a mortgage payment? No worries, we will make it for you (just email ownershiptransfers@newspring.biz for details). What better way to give yourself 100% to Christ than to give 100% of your income?
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All-In [28802]
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that actually sounds closer to the early church***
Sep 25, 2013, 4:12 PM
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Heisman Winner [135609]
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All-In [28802]
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110%er [9096]
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Only God knows***
Sep 25, 2013, 11:57 AM
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All-In [29036]
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Charismatic leader of a large fellowship in the area
Sep 25, 2013, 12:04 PM
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where many of the folks here live and who often (intentionally) aims for publicity/notoriety based on the intentional acts of that fellowship.
Seems normal for it to be discussed.
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All-In [28802]
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Re: Charismatic leader of a large fellowship in the area
Sep 25, 2013, 12:07 PM
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Fine for it to be discussed, but most of the folks here don't seem interested in anything beyond lumping New Spring in with Joel Osteen or some sort of cult without knowing anything about what's being preached or done by the church. So it's not really being discussed so much as it's become another lunge meme.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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Only difference between Noble and Osteen is...
Sep 25, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Osteen doesn't dig through the hamper, to find something to wear.
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All-In [28802]
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that and Noble doesn't preach the prosperity gospel***
Sep 25, 2013, 12:38 PM
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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Rock Defender [53]
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Probably why you think I'm obsessed...
Sep 25, 2013, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Charismatic leader of a large fellowship in the area ] |
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I have family that throw what "Perry said" in my face every 10 minutes.
"Our church did this...our church does that"
Not to mention the never ending flow of bragging that comes about when they hit a new number of facebook or twitter.
Probably pretty easy to throw rocks at me instead from Chicago, saying I don't know what is going on or what is preached.
Whatever fits your reality, brah.
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All-In [29036]
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Out of curiosity
Sep 25, 2013, 12:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Charismatic leader of a large fellowship in the area ] |
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(and I'm genuinely interested in your response)
What do you see as the primary differences between Olsteen and Noble? Or more generally the differences between Newspring and Lakewood?
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Rock Defender [53]
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You didn't ask me, but I will take up for NS here
Sep 25, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Perry at least says Jesus is the way to the father.
Osteen seems to be doing everything he can to minimize your interaction with Jesus at all. More about positivity.
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All-In [29036]
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Oh, I agree
Sep 25, 2013, 12:27 PM
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But, I really have no interaction with either so I don't hear what is said from the pulpit (though I did attend a few Lakewood services while down in Houston just to experience the spectacle, they do put on a great show).
It is interesting how similar the doctrinal statements of both churches are though:
http://newspring.cc/newhere/beliefs/
http://www.lakewoodchurch.com/pages/new-here/what-we-believe.aspx
Now the general consensus is that Olsteen is moving farther and farther away from the church doctrine that is father had instilled at Lakewood as pastor.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I went to an Osteen "show" at Phillips Arena in 2005 or 6
Sep 25, 2013, 12:29 PM
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because I had enjoyed seeing him on TV.
Seeing the show, seeing it exalt Joel and his wife instead of Christ sealed the deal for me.
We left early.
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All-In [29036]
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I had a good friend in Houston
Sep 25, 2013, 12:32 PM
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Who used to run sound for the worship team at Lakewood back in 08/09 and the production values of the show were quite impressive.
But he always used to say it exactly that way. He was sad because it did become nothing but a show. It's a well run slick presentation of what no longer really resembles any sort of true spiritual experience/edification.
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All-In [26968]
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Ear tickler***
Sep 25, 2013, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to Oh, I agree ] |
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All-In [28802]
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well, the nature of heresy is...
Sep 25, 2013, 12:44 PM
[ in reply to Oh, I agree ] |
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that it takes a true doctrine of Christianity and twists it towards something other than Gospel. I would guess that most of what Lakewood teaches is going to be pretty consonant with what more orthodox evangelical and reformed churches teach, with the exception of the whole prosperity gospel thing. It's not like everything they're teaching is wrong, or like God can't use a heretical church to bring people to him. So it shouldn't be surprising at all that their doctrinal statements are similar.
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110%er [6272]
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respectfully
Sep 25, 2013, 1:32 PM
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you dont HAVE to respond.
why do feel compelled to defend it over and over?
like Steve Brown of Key Life says: "the truth just is, you dont have to defend it"
if you believe Perry Noble and what he preaches to be the truth, you really dont have to defend.
juss sayin'
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All-In [28802]
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Re: respectfully
Sep 25, 2013, 4:16 PM
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I feel compelled to defend them because I think they deserve it, and because nobody else here seems to have attended New Spring regularly. The critics don't just get to go unchallenged because they criticize frequently. I could just as equally say that if some of the people who feel the need to post about Noble every day really think he's some sort of con- man, they don't have to criticize.
Juss sayin.
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Hall of Famer [21258]
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Re: respectfully
Sep 25, 2013, 5:11 PM
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Ok Cam... Ill chime in. And I usually stay out of the Newspring conversations because I get fairly heated. I went for 2.5 years. Me and my wife. We were highly involved and my wife helped start the special needs program there. We constatnly brought up the concern that we did not feel like we were being descipled. Until at one point, Perry actually criticised people for complaining about not being descipled. I thought it was from the pulpit, but my wife said it was his blog, but he actually used the story of Christ casting Legion out of the man and the man trying to follow him and Jesus wouldnt let him as showing that Christ didnt want everyone to be desciples. Therefor, Newspring will not try to make desciples.
It really has become a huge cult. Everyone follows Perry and loves Perry and loves their 'church.' They do not love the church... the body of Christ, they love their gathering and the show that is put on and the 'craziness' that Perry will do next. Perry can not take any criticism and doesnt know what to do when confronted with the gospel and what Newspring is lacking so he bashes it.
I say this not lightly and as a Christian and one that went there for, like I said, 2.5 years. That gathering is a cult and Perry is going to be held greatly responsible for his flock that he has completely misled. That is if he is even a Christian. I have no way of arguing that and it is not my place to judge ones standing on their relationship with Christ, but he is elevating himself and his church above Christ. I can tell you that for sure.
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All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
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Re: respectfully
Sep 25, 2013, 6:15 PM
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I can accept that much more easily than some others' opinions. However, that's just not something I've seen either from him or from when I went to the church, or from sermons of his I've listened to.
One reason I wouldn't really want to go to a "seeker- friendly" mega- church like New Spring anymore is just the reason you mentioned: they're almost too large to engage in much deep discipleship since they're focused on drawing in people who are less mature believers. I don't think that somehow makes them a cult, though, and I don't see where anything they're teaching would lead anybody to believe that. A lot of this just sounds like personal squabbling.
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Enthusiast [118]
TigerPulse: 54%
Posts: 303
Joined: 5/23/13
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^^^ reads logical, well thought out reply
Sep 25, 2013, 6:49 PM
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simply dismisses it because he disagrees.
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All-In [34592]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 41421
Joined: 4/20/01
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he sends gay pron to his 'enemies'...hth***
Sep 25, 2013, 12:19 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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This is why luvdemtigers keeps criticizing him...
Sep 25, 2013, 12:21 PM
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HE WANTS DAT GHEY PORNS!
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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I've never criticized him once
Sep 25, 2013, 12:24 PM
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neither him nor god nor Dabbo, even though they all may in fact be the same person.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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You want that gay ####...just admit it.***
Sep 25, 2013, 12:24 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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RA'd
Sep 25, 2013, 12:25 PM
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THIS IS A PERRY NOBLE THREAD NOT A GAYPORN THREAD
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Amateur [40]
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Joined: 12/21/03
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Someone rang?***
Sep 25, 2013, 12:46 PM
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Hall of Famer [23693]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36824
Joined: 8/19/03
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Until you posted...
Sep 25, 2013, 1:23 PM
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there was nothing remotely entertaining about this thread.
#stuffwebeenoverandover
#Ihavenoopinionaboutpurrynobble
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Ring of Honor [32958]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 53106
Joined: 3/5/02
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Because he's an attention ####?***
Sep 25, 2013, 4:34 PM
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