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Legend [15492]
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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His buddy Pooty-poot prolly suggested the other day
May 6, 2019, 9:49 AM
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when they were consulting on the "no collusion witch hunt". Only way Ruskies can raise state revenue is for gas prices to go up.
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Lot o points [155944]
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That's a really good theory, actually,
May 6, 2019, 4:41 PM
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if you completely ignore the fact that Russia and Iran are both military allies and trading partners.
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Heisman Winner [111631]
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Re: That's a really good theory, actually,
May 6, 2019, 8:22 PM
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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It's a great theory due to the fact I haven't ignored
May 7, 2019, 10:01 AM
[ in reply to That's a really good theory, actually, ] |
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that Putin would sell his own wife, mother, or children to stay in power. Put money in state coffers, increase economic stability, stay in power infinitum. He trades with Iran, but don't think for a minute he wouldn't shank them in a heartbeat for a shiny ruble. Plus, who are they gonna turn to? the US?
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Don't come waltzing in here with logic, reason and facts.
May 7, 2019, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to That's a really good theory, actually, ] |
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This is about criticizing Trump because he's a racist who hates everyone that isn't orange and white.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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You want logic '88? How about the opportunity for
May 7, 2019, 11:15 AM
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Putin to tell all his allies in the ME, "Look at these American warmongers, parking their navy and bomber group on your doorstep. I'll gladly sell you our out-of-date but still functional missile defense systems, airplanes, and helicopters for a great price."
Not to mention that Russia's percent of petroleum export revenue is nearly 70% of their economy, so any uptick in global gas prices makes Pooty poot a happy Rusky. They sell most of their oil to Europe and China, thus influencing their economies negatively while bolstering his.
Their goal is chaos and destabilization of any established Western economy and government. This is an easy way for him to do it.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Re: You want logic '88? So?
May 7, 2019, 1:47 PM
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Let them waste their money on antiquated weapons. That would help facilitate bringing the regime down.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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Your watching the point go by like
May 7, 2019, 3:17 PM
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Jimmy Johnson going through turn 3. Would you rather Russia/Putin have more or less influence and control over the middle east?
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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You just said Iran and Russia are buddies yet...
May 7, 2019, 3:34 PM
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you can claim leaving Iran's regime intact is the best way to limit Russian influence in that part of the world? What am I missing here?
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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Regime change is not even on the table, so why
May 7, 2019, 4:04 PM
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inject it into the conversation. Not to mention we have a miserable history with Iran on the subject.
Cutting off the flow of their oil and threatening Iran in no way helps us, it only serves Putin's interests, enriches Russia, and makes us look bad in the process.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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It is on the table. Ever since Bolton and Pompeo got in.***
May 7, 2019, 4:20 PM
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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Though Bolton has said in the past it's the only "long
May 7, 2019, 4:49 PM
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term solution" he knows it's not in the least bit realistic in the real world and Pompeo has stated that military intervention there is not our goal. If we want to bleed them dry economically, fine, maybe it causes an uprising and the Iranian people can create their own government. But committing troops to the area with the goal of regime change would be the dumbest thing the US has done in probably a century.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I agree with the most important parts of your statement.
May 7, 2019, 7:55 PM
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Specifically, that a military intervention in Iran would be insane.
But, to your other point.... that aggressive, short-term regime change isn't on the table.... Bolton and Pompeo are certifiable. Seriously.
https://twitter.com/BahmanKalbasi/status/976968096908021760/video/1
I do not believe we should be sanctioning them. I believe we should be engaging them and allowing their economy to prosper. THAT will unleash an open society better than anything else. When the middle class grows.
We should absolutely back away from Saudi Arabia and put a muzzle on Israel.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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You're right about Bolton and Pompeo being
May 8, 2019, 9:58 AM
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certifiable. They might have nice degrees, but there is a serious deficit in common sense.
I read a little deeper on the Iran stuff last night, the USS Abraham Lincoln is relieving the USS John C. Stennis. They'll do some joint exercises and then carry on, that is all, just a normal naval movement that would've occurred regardless of anything Iran said or did. Why the eff would this dumb@ss administration couch it as anything else? Fuggin' fearmongers.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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They are just trying to keep pressure on Iran. Iran knows
May 8, 2019, 10:25 AM
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what we are reacting to. Iran recently said that since the US breached the nuclear deal, that there was no longer a reason for them to follow some of its terms. They were hoping to isolate the US on this issue as the rest of the world (other than Saudi Arabia and Israel) are very annoyed at the US behavior over the Iran deal. Iran was hoping that India, CHina, Europe and Russia would help circumvent unilateral sanctions by the US. But it appears that is not happening soon, so Iran had to pivot.
Essentially, the Trump/Pompeo/Bolton position on Iran is to break the nuclear deal even if Iran was complying, sanction them anyway, and then further threaten them if they don't comply with the deal even though we are not doing so.
It's just the latest chapter in our embarrassing history of aggression toward Iran. Obama took a step in the right direction (in that particular area) but Trump, goaded by the swamp (which follows Israel, Saudi Arabia and the MIC) reversed course. Now we are back to shamelessly screwing over Iran in order to keep Saudi Arabia happy so that they won't get rid of the petrodollar.
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All-In [49054]
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Leesin Comrade towelhead....
May 7, 2019, 4:29 PM
[ in reply to That's a really good theory, actually, ] |
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here what we do.
Threaten to kill the infidel American and capture sheeps. Americans will send carrier group to Iran. Gas prices go up. ALL WIN!
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 9:50 AM
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Maybe it's just precautionary.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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I do not want conflict with Iran.
May 6, 2019, 9:51 AM
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It's politically sticky to deal with other muslims if you're pounding the carp out of a muslim country but if Iran feels like they can mine the gulf and capture our small boats, hold our sailors and yank America's chain without repercussions this won't turn out well for them.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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We are already waging economic war on them.
May 6, 2019, 9:58 AM
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It's a passive aggressive form of war, but it's definitely an attack on their country.
Our Navy is in the PERSIAN Gulf by the way. Iran... Persia... see?
We have done far more terrible things to them than they have to us. We are essentially saying they should never defend or protect themselves and if they do its an affront to us trying to control them.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Re: We are already waging economic war on them.
May 6, 2019, 10:11 AM
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China too but is China justified in setting out mines to block sea passages and capturing our military personnel?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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We are not waging economic war on China. We are just
May 6, 2019, 1:02 PM
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competing with and trying to leverage them.
We are trying to destroy the Iranian economy by preventing them from trading. Huge difference.
Plus, I believe we should leave the Taiwan strait situation alone. Let them handle it.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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I thought the goal was to force them to give up their nuke..
May 6, 2019, 6:08 PM
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development. Do you think we would keep sanctions on them if they quit the nuclear R&D? Honestly, I don't know.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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They were complying with the deal. We want them weak even
May 6, 2019, 7:39 PM
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if they don't have nukes. So that's why we backed out of the deal even though it was working to prevent nukes. Saudi Arabia wanted their rival (Iran) taken out. We are Saudi Arabia's thug so we do their bidding. A peaceful, non-nuclear Iran would be the leader of the Muslim world... and Saudi Arabia (grandfather of Al Qaeda) doesn't want that.
We suck up to Saudi Arabia because of the petrodollar.
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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America being the world leader in petro exports may not be..
May 7, 2019, 10:25 AM
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exactly what SA wants. I don't think Russia is real happy with it either but who knows. Politics is front page news but money is what drives the politics.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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We will buy from them no matter what because of
May 7, 2019, 4:17 PM
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the petrodollar. Our army and our military is the primary value to them.
We want them to protect our rigged global economic system and they want us as mercenaries. It's a match made in h*ll.
Nixon and Kissinger made a deal with the devil just so we could continue to live beyond our means.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: We will buy from them no matter what because of
May 7, 2019, 7:03 PM
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Factoid on oil , we get very little oil from KSA. Most of theirs is sold to Asia but that does have the effect of lower per barrel costs across the globe as they are filling the requirements of that segment.
As to foregoing the Gold Standard, well it was just a matter of time anyways in truth. We came out of WW2 as the only economic power not blown to hell, we built and sold to the world thus growing that vast middle class. As those blown to hell countries rebuilt and began to manufature and export it caused a shift in how we could continue growing the middle class. Only way was debt, on the consumer side and government side. We in truth are not a product of vastly superior tech or values but the simple fact WW2 was not fought upon our shores.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: We will buy from them no matter what because of
May 7, 2019, 7:24 PM
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Strange it was fine in one place but not the other, filters need work I see.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Re: We will buy from them no matter what because of
May 7, 2019, 8:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: We will buy from them no matter what because of ] |
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Like I said, our primary motivation for sucking up to Saudi Arabia is not the actual oil. It's the petrodollar. Saudi Arabia's primary interest in the US is not us as an oil consumer. It's our military industrial complex.
I agree with the thesis of WW2 being a massive reason for our economic recovery and power... but the rigging of the international currency system was also massively important to our extreme economic leverage over the rest of the world. And the Saudi-dollar arrangement extended and enhanced our rigged system.
And our disgusting debt is the only reason why the petrodollar is so crucial to the survival of our way of life. And now we behave like an immoral empire to protect it. Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Russia and China are the bad guys.... because they are the biggest threat to the petrodollar.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 9:53 AM
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Felix, might want to read a bit on this one. Iran has said they will close the Straight of Hormuz if sanctions hit their oil trade. Guess what occurs if that happens as a whole bunch of oil flows through that choke point? Any guess? They have harrassed USN in the Gulf with armed speed boats, remember the USS Cole? Remember them holding a ship hostage not long back? While I am against a Carrier Group operating in the shallow waters of the Gulf to think that Iran would not dare to attempt to close down the Straight is fully ludicrous.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 10:24 AM
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If Iran closes the Straight of Hormuz it only chokes itself to death. 100% of it's oil exports flow through there. It would be economic suicide. In fact, their fear is that the U.S will choke off the Straight. Read up on the Tonkin Gulf Resolution for some insight as to how hostile govts. appear to commit strategic suicide that is really an excuse to go to war. Or, how about Iraq developing WMD's (another suicidal venture) that led to it's own destruction.
"Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif on Friday again raised warnings about the Strait of Hormuz, calling the chokepoint a “lifeline” for his country’s economy, and saying that if the U.S. “tries to take coercive measures it will be reciprocated by Iran.”
https://www.cnsnews.com/video/iranian-fm-if-us-tries-take-coercive-measures-strait-hormuz-iran-will-reciprocate
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 10:44 AM
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Our sanction on Iranian oil are effectively shutting it down now that waivers have been stopped. Closing the Straight is all about inflicting economic pain on everybody.
As to WMD’s I Iraq, that was a farce all along. Saddam intended to price oil in other than USD thus affecting our status as World Reserve Currency. Gotta service that debt that allows an illusion of a vast middle class.
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110%er [9174]
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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America is in a very strange position.
May 7, 2019, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Well, here is a really bad idea. ] |
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I know exactly why American's people want to see Iran destroyed. Everyone knows it's an evil regime due to the way they rule and abuse people. I can't say that Trump wants to crush Iran because of the way they treat women, homosexuals or that they consider America the great Satan. I don't know the man's heart. Maybe his motivation is nothing but him seeking favor for our oil production entities.
You really can't say one way or the other, Felix. You can speculate but I suspect your passion is criticizing Trump without consideration of what motivates him or weighing whether or not he's wrong to want to see Iran fall.
Unless you can honestly say that Iran's horrid regime deserves preservation you seem to be arguing against what's in your heart. It's quite difficult for me to comprehend how you can view Trump's aggressiveness toward Iran as bad and consider yourself as a warrior for women's and gays' rights.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Legend [15492]
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Re: America is in a very strange position.
May 7, 2019, 6:26 PM
[ in reply to America is in a very strange position. ] |
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I think we need to back up a 2nd. We're at war now and have been for what, 18 years?
We have troops in Syria and give material support to the Saudi's war in Yemen.
We don't need another war.
Sure, Iran is an evil empire, but we don't have to care. We have got to stop these stupid regime change wars!
Since when am I a 'warrior' for gay and women's rights?
I'm for equal protection under the law for all God's children. I don't pick and choose.
Plus I have a really hot wife...she makes me do a lot of this 'equal rights' crap! 
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 10:35 AM
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We started the provocation by withdrawing from the nuke deal and implementing sanctions for no reason.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 10:51 AM
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Iran was getting uppity.
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Legend [15492]
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I hate it when a Muslim country with the 8th largest
May 6, 2019, 11:06 AM
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military in the world gets uppity.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: I hate it when a Muslim country with the 8th largest
May 6, 2019, 4:36 PM
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Umm, gotta bear in mind that Iraq and Iran fought 10 years and ended up right at the same line they started. WHere we ran through Iraq like crap through a goose. Just saying it is not a factor in capability and after being around that part of the world and seeing 1st hand their attitudes it would be a very short war. Just as long as we do not do the Nation Building foolishness.
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Oculus Spirit [97734]
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Brutal dictator, or king. Best way to go in the middle east
May 6, 2019, 5:24 PM
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Just find one we can deal with. Democracy will not work, and only invite terrorists to come in and take over and install another theocracy.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The West won't let it work. Not because of terrorism...
May 6, 2019, 7:42 PM
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but because of resources. Strong men take over because the West ransacked the place and once an inevitable revolution burns out, there is a power vacuum. It's not a Brown person thing... it's a phase in history. White people had the same sh*t.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 4:14 PM
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Now we are sending bombers too. Sketchy
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Heisman Winner [111631]
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Re: Well, here is a really bad idea.
May 6, 2019, 8:46 PM
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Come on now, everyone loves a good war whether they will admit it or not. Once that Raytheon and Lockheed money starts "trickling down", it is good times in America. I say we get this party started.
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