|
Replies: 26
| visibility 1,155
|
Orange Blooded [3826]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4718
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 10, 2020, 6:23 PM
|
|
that solved all racial problems in SC. That was after taking it off the capitol rotunda apparently failed to do. If you think taking down monuments, changing the name of roads and building will fix things then you are part of the problem.
Ready to be vilified for having my own opinion that may differ than what the group thinks. Can't have that in America any more right?
|
|
|
|
 |
All-In [26010]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20644
Joined: 7/31/07
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 10, 2020, 6:34 PM
|
|
You are correct Gmurra. Nothing will be good enough from now on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3520]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 4253
Joined: 12/5/06
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 10, 2020, 6:36 PM
|
|
You’ll find many more here that agree with you than not...it’s actually been kind of nice lately that the site is not so much of an echo chamber for conservative talking points. There are actually some threads where real constructive discussion is taking place.
To your point, I don’t think anyone thinks that removing flags and monuments will fix racial issues. But in what other war or conflict do you ever recall the loser getting to erect monuments to essentially honor traitors and call it ‘heritage’. And yes, I feel like I can say that as a native southerner, whose GGGF fought for the confederacy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [65465]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 33257
Joined: 12/3/03
|
What is taught as history is constantly changing. I
Jun 10, 2020, 6:53 PM
|
|
distinctly remember history books in my early school years in South Carolina referring to the Civil War not as the Civil War, but as "The War of Northern Aggression." I doubt that any of those references remain today.
To my knowledge, in Germany, there is not one statue or memorial to Adolf Hitler. They are not allowed, banned by political climate if not by law. Yet, I would venture to say that there is not one single child born in Germany since WWII ended that does not know of Nazi history.
From what I have read, most Confederate monuments went up in between the years 1890-1920. It is VERY unusual that the losing side in a war is commemorated in such a way. Given that the main cause of the war was slavery (yes, it was, do not try to hit me with revisionist history here) these monuments will ALWAYS be a sore spot with Black Americans. They (monuments, names, etc) should be relegated only to the history books and museums, just as Nazi Germany has been.
We should never forget history, it teaches some profound and bitter lessons that must never be unlearned. But, when it is infamous history, it certainly should not be immortalized in a monument, or the name of a building, road, or other place in the public eye. I am a white native South Carolinian, and that is my view in 2020. You do not have to agree with it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10128
Joined: 11/2/03
|
Re: What is taught as history is constantly changing. I
Jun 10, 2020, 7:00 PM
|
|
Actual history will tell you that Slavery was an issue, not the issue. There was not a single issue, but a multitude of issues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3826]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4718
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: history doesn't change it is only rewritten when folks
Jun 10, 2020, 7:04 PM
|
|
don't like what the true facts were
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8984]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9786
Joined: 4/27/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [881]
TigerPulse: 57%
Posts: 2125
Joined: 2/3/12
|
That comes from the Lost Cause propganda
Jun 11, 2020, 12:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: What is taught as history is constantly changing. I ] |
|
Almost everybody in the South is a victim of it. I was, through way too much education, but I know better now.
In the first few decades after the Civil War, everybody knew the war was about slavery. Nothing else. Then it gradually changed.
The lost cause propaganda effort started around 1905, and the rest of the country didn't really care because the south was still in such bad shape. Gradually, over a couple of generations, average people started to quote that the war was really about states' rights, etc. etc. etc. We Americans are probably the most successful propagandists in history, excluding the Catholic Church.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
The Confederates were pretty straight forward about this.
Jun 11, 2020, 4:10 AM
[ in reply to Re: What is taught as history is constantly changing. I ] |
|
"its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition." - Alexander Stephens
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3520]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 4253
Joined: 12/5/06
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3826]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4718
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Ever make an emotional decision that you regretted later
Jun 10, 2020, 6:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds ] |
|
after a more well thought out solution would have been better. These laws and actions taken just because "we have do something" usually in the long run don't work very well. Take the emotions out of it first, then you can actually define the problem and come up with a better solution.
After the first day or two of protest or at least when they charged the dip #### cop it probably should have been over. Unfortunately I believe the BLM movement has did more damage to its image because country is burnt out with the nothing but GF and BLM narrative 24-7. Most people in this nation are not racist, if so we would not have had a half black president as well as numerous senators and representatives. And lest us not forget the black athletes that are held in high esteem by whites as well as blacks. I believe the country needs a break from it like maybe have some sports to talk about. Oh, forgot how's that pandemic going now?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1574]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 524
Joined: 3/1/11
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 10, 2020, 6:43 PM
|
|
That’s been my concern all along. I am willing to remove a flag or rename a building if that will solve the proble. It won’t. Before it’s over we will have to rename the State of South Carolina because of the role we played in the War of Northern Aggression. That’s where we are as a nation. We have conceded to the liberals in the name of keeping the peace. But it’s never enough.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3520]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 4253
Joined: 12/5/06
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 10, 2020, 6:45 PM
|
|
Ha! Now that’s funny! My dad actually still calls it the war of northern aggression.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11206
Joined: 9/23/07
|
The flag was just a good start***
Jun 10, 2020, 6:46 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6474]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10128
Joined: 11/2/03
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 10, 2020, 6:56 PM
|
|
Agree fully.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 10, 2020, 7:07 PM
|
|
I feel racial tensions are rising and not the opposite. I think whites are being targeted as ‘part of the problem’ and people’s opinions and expressions of speech/debate are being silenced. If people are wanting to squash racism, they’re doing a piz poor job of it. I think the actions of a few are angering the many and retribution is being sought by everyone. The innocent are made to feel guilty by no fault of their own.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [22388]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 31282
Joined: 11/30/98
|
If you feel guilty,
Jun 10, 2020, 7:25 PM
|
|
you're not innocent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10871]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12937
Joined: 4/18/12
|
Re: If you feel guilty,
Jun 10, 2020, 7:39 PM
|
|
I personally don’t feel guilty. I’m full of hate. I hate everyone...including you ??
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3826]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4718
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9436
Joined: 12/18/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
I haven't been made to feel guilty of anything.
Jun 11, 2020, 6:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds ] |
|
I think that's probably a choice. If someone out there is saying "white people" are to blame for things, and you know that you haven't done anything wrong, then who cares? Let them say what they want. They're not talking about you, obviously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Why would anyone think that taking down a flag
Jun 11, 2020, 6:28 AM
|
|
would solve all racial problems? Did anyone in the universe think that at the time? This is a classic strawman.
Taking down the flag didn't solve all racial problems. It solved the problem of having the flag on the State House.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lot o points [155926]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 65829
Joined: 5/6/13
|
The bigger issue is that of focus and priorities.
Jun 11, 2020, 6:44 AM
|
|
There clearly is a movement afoot to correct real and perceived black inequality, particularly as it pertains to justice reform, and right now the black community has the floor, and the world’s attention and goodwill. As I’ve said before, attention spans are short and this window of opportunity will absolutely pass as the news cycle spins and the next domestic crisis arises, so IMO a real opportunity for change and reform in the judicial system is being squandered on feel-good efforts like military base renaming and statue removal.
I’m not saying the two are mutually exclusive and exclusionary, but these efforts give a lot of insincere people and entities the ability to placate the black community while ultimately escaping having to do anything of substance. It’s like a tweet I saw from a black activist about the Pelosi kneeling show—-“save the performance art for actors—-you literally make the laws—do something meaningful”.
These efforts are akin to cleaning the toilets while the kitchen is on fire.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Well, I agree with that line of thinking, sure.
Jun 11, 2020, 6:46 AM
|
|
I hope it is not the case that actual change and reform in laws is not being purposefully ignored in favor of symbolic actions. If that is happening, I'm agin' it.
I thought I remembered reading that the House had drafted some legislation. But I may be wrong about that, and I obviously will not commit to being in favor of whatever it is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 11, 2020, 6:54 AM
|
|
Nobody thought they would fix the problems. They just help to not fan the flames. Kind of like how the NAZI statues and symbols were all removed from Germany. There are still anti-semites.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48078]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 49059
Joined: 5/16/04
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 11, 2020, 6:55 AM
|
|
Nobody thought they would fix the problems. They just help to not fan the flames. Kind of like how the NAZI statues and symbols were all removed from Germany. There are still anti-semites. Some things don't deserve to be honored though, so they are taken down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5508]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 3806
Joined: 8/23/13
|
Re: Thought when Nicki took the flag down from capital grounds
Jun 11, 2020, 7:17 AM
|
|
I’m sure there are small pockets of racism across the country, but it’s not really an issue today. I once thought it was something the news media pushed to increase viewership, but I now wonder if the reasons for pushing these stories are more nefarious than that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 26
| visibility 1,155
|
|
|
50
