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Topic: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson
Replies: 62   Last Post: Aug 14, 2018 9:37 PM by: civil engr
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The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[6]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:45 PM
 

It's hilarious and a little bit scary to be honest watching people defend it.

Blind loyalty is never a good thing. It's no wonder people like Hitler were able to rise to power....


So what’s your point? Fire Dabo? Or he’s not perfect but somehow

[4]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:46 PM
 

He should come to tigernet for his coaching advice

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Re: So what’s your point? Fire Dabo? Or he’s not perfect but somehow


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:07 PM
 

Just don’t be a coot about it. He made a mistake. Period.


lol...he made the correct move

[3]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:32 PM
 

if waton started the game, uga defense would have broke his leg ..on the way to the hospital a tree would have fallen on the ambulance killing all inside.

the question is, why do you want to watson dead ?


Re: So what’s your point? Fire Dabo? Or he’s not perfect but somehow

[4]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:59 PM
 

You're an idiot. Who looks back 3 years ago and tries to nitpick decisions as if they are somehow relevant.

Moran!! Yes, you.

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This is really gonna help your pulse.***

[5]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:46 PM
 



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There's something in these hills.


Re: This is really gonna help your pulse.***


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:08 PM
 

Can you imagine what Brent Venables pulse would be on here....


BV is too busy being a coach. he doesn't have time to play coach on tnet***

[5]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:17 PM
 




Re: BV is too busy being a coach. he doesn't have time to play coach on tnet***

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:41 PM
 

BV doesn't....but Jimmy Greenbeans does


Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[3]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:48 PM
 

I would agree because he had more talent in his pinky finger than Cole had in his whole body but his durability was a MAJOR issue his freshman year. The coaches did the right thing. Nice try though.

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LOL

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:52 PM
 

Again, no broken collar bone in the Spring, DW4 starts.


Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson***

[7]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:52 PM
 





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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Have you ever played college ball?

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:53 PM
 

Go Tigers AND Tiger Nation!

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Go Tigers AND Tiger Nation!


Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[6]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:54 PM
 



2020 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


lol...or the guys who think they know now than dabo..

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:56 PM
 

those guys are s coot.

or the 1s who think dabo is more loyal to uperclassmen than his team. .
lol


Re: lol...or the guys who think they know now than dabo..

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:31 PM
 

For the record, I'll let Coach Scott know you think he's a coot then:
https://www.tigernet.com/story/football/Clemson-QBs-have-coaches-smiling-in-close-camp-battle-17118

"When asked about how much experience factors into the competition - Bryant coming off some ups-and-downs leading Clemson back to the Playoff last year - Scott reiterated head coach Dabo Swinney's philosophy.

"Usually experience is definitely a factor," Scott said. "Coach Swinney says all the time that he doesn't mind playing a freshman or a sophomore. But if it's a senior and a guy with experience, it's got to be a knockout shot because that guy has been there and has the experience and been through the battles..."

^isn't that saying that he is loyal to the upperclassmen (experienced seniors specifically), unless there's miles of difference??


Lulz. Cole ate UGA up in first half and

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 1:56 PM
 

outperformed Watson.UGA'S punter hemmed us inside the 15 most of 2nd half.

I think Cole regressed and lost his confidence. It happens.

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Re: Lulz. Cole ate UGA up in first half and


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:19 PM
 

We're talking about a career backup vs. one of the best QB's in college football history who was tearing up the NFL his rookie season before being hurt....

Heck Bentley played the majority of his freshman season when he should have still been in high school. You don't think DESHAUN WATSON was ready to start week one?


I don't think he was ready. Remember how

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:24 PM
 

Louisville shut him down the first game he started, then he got injured. He became all world by working and improving and not standing pat. If TL doesn't keep improving he won't do squat here.

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Re: I don't think he was ready. Remember how


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:48 PM
 

Wasn't Louisville the #1 D at that time of the year though, for our 2014 squad to eventually take that over by year end?


Re: Lulz. Cole ate UGA up in first half and

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 7:31 PM
 

Jhop83® said:



Heck Bentley played the majority of his freshman season when he should have still been in high school.




Bentley turned 19 his first season, before he played us in November. He was just as old as your average college student the whole he's he's been there. Must've failed a grade. I dunno. Don't care.

Then main thin is he pretty much sucks, as does his team, as do the decisions his head coach makes.
Why in the world you'd want us to be like them is weird.


Three three and outs and an INT is not "eating them up."


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 1:18 AM
 

And regardless of where we started, we lost the game in the second half because Cole couldn't get us ONE first down and the defense got worn out.

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You're the only one calling it blind loyalty

[5]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:02 PM
 

what a dueshbag you are.

I guess you don't remember the DW was a bit dinged up coming out of high school so he wasn't even 100% when he got to Clemson. Put on top of that his need to learn the offense and that's why you had the 4 games that Cole started. It took that long for him to be able to withstand a full collegiate game and learn enough to lead the team.

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


You do realize DW4 hurt his shoulder during spring practice

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:03 PM
 

And wasn’t able to thrown during summer volunteer workouts. Coach Swinney even mentioned during fall camp his freshman year he had lots of pain in his shoulder, because he wasn’t use to throwing. It took DW4 several weeks to get his throwing strength back and he didn’t play better than Cole in fall camp.



I can’t believe how some of you think Coach Swinney would be loyal to 1 player over 84, and if you know anything about Coach Swinney you’d know thats not his style.


Re: You do realize DW4 hurt his shoulder during spring practice


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:15 PM
 

I'm talking about blind loyalty to Dabo over the decision. If DW4 was ready to take over week 3 on the road against FSU he was ready against UGA.

Dabo was scared to pull the trigger and he was last year in the playoffs as well. Saban showed him how it's done though....


You have no clue,

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:30 PM
 

you are an idgit

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Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Last year? Which one of our backup QBs that transferred

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:31 PM
 

out of the program this offseason were our Deshaun Watson or Tua Tagovailoa sitting on the bench behind Kelly Bryant? Good lord man.


Re: Last year? Which one of our backup QBs that transferred


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:11 PM
 

I guess we'll never know.


Re: You do realize DW4 hurt his shoulder during spring practice

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:33 PM
 

DW4 wasn’t ready to play college football physically and Coach Swinney knew it and tried not to play him, you might disagree with that but 4 time loss injuries in 9 months shows he wasn’t ready. He was 6’3”-185lbs soaking wet, after bulking up to 215lbs he didn’t miss another game.



KB2 wasn’t the problem verse BAMA, none of WR’s could get separation and our OL and backs weren’t pass protecting. You can rip Coach Swinney, but he’s the best coach in Clemson history.


Agree with this

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:41 PM
 

KB2 wasn’t the problem verse BAMA, none of WR’s could get separation and our OL and backs weren’t pass protecting. You can rip Coach Swinney, but he’s the best coach in Clemson history.

Every single player will be better this year,including KB2


It's his job to lose.

If he can win it all,he's the man no matter how good TL turns out



I'm excited to see what he can do. Just trying to figure out how those fussing know he's gonna walk straight without hiccups.



Guess they FAIL to understand . WHEN A WR is making one handed grabs as Tee was in Spring game and Tee was doing Saturday, those WEREN'T good thrown balls. Those were situation where WR's were putting forth great effort to get the ball.Makes me happy, as good as the WR's were last year,we didn't have that.


Many times MW7 made catches no one else could make , and plenty of examples of AS3 turning into a DB to prevent Ints.


Re: You do realize DW4 hurt his shoulder during spring practice


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:14 PM
 

Nobody is ripping Dabo. I'm ripping the people defending the decision.

Once again, If DW wasn't ready week 1 he wasn't ready week 3. But he was ready, because he played great against FSU.

KB2's lack of awareness in the pocket and inability to step up and throw the ball downfield was absolutely a factor against Alabama, as was his repeatedly making the wrong decision on the read option. He struggled with that all year.


JHop


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 2:46 PM
 

Have you considered DW4 did not know 20% of playbook in week 1 but knew 40% by week 3. Like you, I’m ready to see what TL can do and believe DW4 was the GOAT. Still it takes time for Dabo, OC and QBC to coach them up. The question for me ... is TL better at 70% of playbook than KB is at 95%? Dabo will have to make that decision.

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Re: JHop


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 3:55 PM
 

This really isn't about KB and TL. I think the situation this year is totally different and KB should be the starter week 1.


Do you remember the tommy west years? Do you remember the

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:49 PM
 

end of the hatfield era...do you remember the mediocrity of the Tommy Bowden years (although he was close).... And then you want to drag Dabo around like he's supposed to be scoffed at. Dabo and co. have done way more on the right side than the bad side. Do you think Deshaun knew the playcalls better than Cole? Do you think that has anything to do with why he didn't start. Here's my take.. i think cole played b/c he knew the playcalls and could manage the game. I think dW4 didn't play yet b/c he probably was still making mistakes (mentally) in practice but his abilities were what made him even a question mark of going in early. I think they saw pretty much what cole had was going to be limited. Then decided to take a chance on DW4 against FSU to see what he was made out of.. and the rest was history.


Re: Do you remember the tommy west years? Do you remember the


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:04 PM
 

wrong....DW4 didn't play simply because he had a shoulder injury in the spring, was still nursing it a bit throughout the fall. That alone put him behind, and secured Cole starting for the UGA game until they could make sure he could play in an actual college game without issues with the shoulder. The second game was a small team, easily a game Cole could play...the third, Cole only lasted a quarter.


Re: Do you remember the tommy west years? Do you remember the

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:29 PM
 

Ok, I have a question? I will give everyone that dw4 was hurt and that’s why he did not start, but can you please explain this. When dw4 went in at Georgia and threw a football through a notecard for a touchdown, why in the ____ would you take him out. Why not leave him in. He just scored a heck of a touchdown?


Re: Do you remember the tommy west years? Do you remember the


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:49 PM
 

It was baffling....


Re: Do you remember the tommy west years? Do you remember the


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:49 PM
 

Think that's what baffled everyone. He played fairly sparingly in the game.


That was a mind-blowing drive - still in awe - a first


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 9:09 PM
 

sight of greatness like that leaves a mark.

I'm sure it benefitted him coming in off the heels of Stoudt's throws and speed. I certainly don't know that he would have continued quite like that from there, but it was obvious he had the goods.

He did play mid-3rd quarter in that game with a 3 and out, with a run and inc on the drive, plus he was sacked twice on his last drive.

I don't know. I liked that DW4 was healed and ready for SCar that season, and I don't know, what followed wasn't all that bad. Something we all probably envisioned there on that debut UGA drive.

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Posted: Aug 13, 2018 9:11 PM
 



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Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:50 PM
 



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I think it's hilarious that some people


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:25 PM
 

know for a fact how much of the playbook Deshaun Watson knew by game 2 of his freshmen year.

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Here's the facts in real-time Oct 2014


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 9:08 PM
 

Reference Chad Morris statement on DW4's knowledge of "whole playbook" ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With FSU’s Sean Maguire already in for the suspended Jameis Winston, Watson replaced Stoudt in the first quarter, and the Tigers quite nearly pulled off the upset, taking the Noles to overtime. Clemson’s final offensive play was a fourth-and-inches snap that saw Watson line up in his typical shotgun spot and running back Adam Choice get felled short of a first down. The play call seemed baffling in the moment, but in retrospect was both an obvious choice and a necessary reminder of Watson’s inexperience: He had next to no reps operating under center.2 “It’s just a comfort level thing,” Morris says. “I may feel comfortable having the whole playbook in. But if he doesn’t, it makes no sense.”

Regardless of where it was in OT, Watson’s comfort level was deemed sufficient shortly thereafter, and he was named Clemson’s new starter well in advance of last week’s game against North Carolina. Tar Heels at Tigers looked like a perfectly cozy spot to make the switch: a home game, with a pleasant weather forecast, against a team allowing an average of more than 6.5 yards per play. Still, Watson was surprised: “I thought I was going to have to wait my turn.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/deshaun-watson-clemson-tigers-breakout-star/

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Not starting Watson in that game was 100% reasonable

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:28 PM
 

First off, Watson was coming off a serious injury that had greatly limited his action leading up the season. The coaches probably felt he wasn't ready, physically and/or mentally to start in that type of environment.

Second, you are looking back on the situation with 3 seasons worth of data that the coaches didn't have access to at the time they made the decision. If you want to fairly evaluate the Watson vs Stoudt decision you have to largely ignore everything that happened from the beginning of the 2014 season onward.


Re: Not starting Watson in that game was 100% reasonable


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 6:15 PM
 

There's no possibility that the talent discrepancy between DW and Stoudt was not apparent to the coaches in practice.

I wouldn't fault Dabo for starting Kelly over TL because Kelly is much better than Stoudt and he just led us to a 12-2 season.


I'm sure it was obvious which player was more talented


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 8:30 PM
 

I'm also sure it was much less obvious that Watson would give us a better chance to win the 1st game of the season.


That was fine. On the other hand,


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:31 PM
 

letting Kyle Parker run down the hill on senior day as a junior....inexcusable.

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Ancient History Forum is this way ------------------------->***

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 2:54 PM
 




Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:02 PM
 

Anyone who continues to defend that decision just isn't being honest with themselves. Some of us knew from the get go it was a terrible decision. I'm afraid it's going to be de ja vu.

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I think we knew where it was going to end up by seasons end.


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:57 PM
 

But it proved worthy of Dabo's concern b/c DW4 didn't last more than 4.5 games before he messed his knee up. So if anything it validated Dabo's earlier reluctance to start him out right. You can say oh it was just a non contact thing but they said it happened in practice the week prior to the GT game. Because his body wasn't used to the stress and speed of college ball compared to high school. He could easily do it but the body has to work itself up to that new normal.

So the same with TL. He can easily do it but is he ready to be thrown into it right off the bat? You hate to be wrong on that stuff. Or can you figure a way to work him in gradually so he doesn't hurt himself by trying to do too much. I think Dabo does the latter. Its about winning but its always about protecting the player first in Dabo's world. So complain all you want i guess.


Re: I think we knew where it was going to end up by seasons end.


Posted: Aug 13, 2018 4:00 PM
 

I would argue that TL is a lot less likely to get hurt. First off he is night and day bigger than dw4 was, secondly he is going to throw the ball more and run less.

Will he run, of course, but he will not run as much. He won’t have to.


Re: I think we knew where it was going to end up by seasons end.


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 8:43 AM
 

So you're saying Dabo was right because DW4 had a freak accident finger caught in a face mask? Come on man.

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that play proves the point if anything


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 12:18 PM
 

the way in which that happened was DW4's fault. It was a young-and-dumb move to stiff arm a defender and grab his face mask. I'm sure every coach in the film room would have told him not to do that again b/c too much can go wrong and its unnecessary. You could get hurt, get a penalty, etc.

Its the same with a QB not getting down when he's running..just be smart. Comes with experience and maturity. Again DW4 easily had the ability just not as mentally mature at that time. Cole probably had the game-plan and mental maturity down but wasn't close in the ability and that played out...where?? On the field in the games! Which is where this QB will play out.


Not sure which is funnier - "blind loyalty" or the

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 3:59 PM
 

Hitler reference.

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Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 4:57 PM
 

This is not the first time this coot has posted this and Tnet falls for it again


Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 7:06 PM
 

Yeah, we might have won 10 games if Deshaun had started earlier in the year. Oh wait...


Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[2]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 7:23 PM
 

Chad Kelly not being a team player (and being a punk) didn't help any either.


Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[1]
Posted: Aug 13, 2018 8:38 PM
 

I gave this a TU cause I wanted a 4 to be beside Deshaun's name


comparing a qb race to the beginning of mass genocide....wow


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 12:56 AM
 

solid.....







yikes

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[2]
Posted: Aug 14, 2018 6:22 AM
 



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Re: The decision to start Cole Stoudt over Deshaun Watson

[1]
Posted: Aug 14, 2018 1:00 PM
 

Skeeter3 with more attention whoring.

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another attribute you can define Dabo with . .


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 2:59 PM
 

is he learns. If he makes a mistake, he doesn't do it twice. That could be coaching he hires, changes that need to be made ,etc. I think he is well aware of the problem that year, when DW was a freshman. I trust he won't make the same mistake again.


How many times do we have to go over this. DW4 was hurt


Posted: Aug 14, 2018 9:37 PM
 

during the previous spring after arriving at Clemson in January 2014 as an early enrollee. When the 2014 season started, he only weighed around 185 lbs, and had missed most of the previous spring practice. Our first game was in Athens against a good UGa team out for revenge after losing to Clemson in 2013. Not the best place to start an inexperienced true freshman coming off an injury.

Comparing that season to this season is just wrong on so many levels. Stoudt had not been a starting QB for Clemson, but he had some experience. DW4 had zero college game experience. Both QB's played against UGa, with Stoudt getting more snaps. The next game was against SC State at home, and we scored over 70 points, all of our QB's played in that game.

The third game of the year was FSU in a night game in Tallahassee. Stoudt started, but it was DW4 at QB from the second quarter until the game ended, and barring a fumble late in the game, Clemson would have won. Stoudt didn't start again until after DW4 hurt his hand against Louisville. When he was healthy, he came back and started until he injured his knee at Ga Tech. He also came back and played against SCAR and Clemson kicked their butt.

So basically, your argument all rests on three games with Stoudt starting over DW4. UGa on the road in the opener, SC State at home when every QB played, and against FSU on the road. From the second quarter against FSU in 2014, DW4 was our starting QB, when healthy, until our win over Alabama in Tampa in January 2017.

Drop the banana on this ridiculous argument. Everyone who makes this argument either doesn't know the facts, or are rival fans. Clemson fans/alums aren't this stupid.


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