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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Dear Georgia, just so we're clear on this
Oct 1, 2014, 1:46 PM
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Cooking your child in a vehicle does not merit the death penalty? Interesting.
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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you think that's bad
Oct 1, 2014, 1:51 PM
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Georgia woman mistakenly jailed for more than a month after cops confused SpaghettiOs for meth
Ashley Gabrielle Huff, a 23-year-old with no criminal history, was originally jailed for two days in July and ordered to seek drug counseling. She was arrested after failing to make all the appointments and jailed again from Aug. 2 until Sept. 18.
A Georgia woman was mistakenly jailed for one month after cops confused her SpaghettiOs for meth.
Ashley Gabrielle Huff was first detained on July 2 after officers in Gainesville found a spoon with a dried substance baked onto it inside her car during a routine traffic stop.
The 23-year-old, from Commerce, claimed it was residue from the canned pasta that she liked to eat in the vehicle.
Police, however, believed it to be methamphetamine.
Huff, who had no criminal history, was sent to Hall County Jail for two days so cops could conduct crime lab tests on the mysterious texture.
While she was waiting for the results to come back, Huff was also ordered as part of her court arraignment to seek drug counseling.
When she wasn't able to make all of the appointments, however, she was again arrested.
Unable to make the bond payment, she was put in jail from Aug. 2 until Sept. 18, reports the Gainesville Times.
She was finally released Thursday after tests on the substance proved it wasn't meth — and showed that it was in fact, as she'd claimed all along, spaghetti sauce.
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CU Medallion [60232]
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so meth looks/smells like spaghetti sauce?
Oct 1, 2014, 1:55 PM
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Good to know.
I really have no idea, just gleaning practical knowledge here. I had imagined it being a white colored substance, like most felony narcotics.
#oldandoutoftouch
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CU Medallion [60232]
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addendum:
Oct 1, 2014, 1:57 PM
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no wonder people get addicted to meth. SpaghettiOOOs are yummy. Esp. the ones with the little cutup franks in them.
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All-In [47799]
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Orange Blooded [2618]
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Re: you think that's bad
Oct 1, 2014, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to you think that's bad ] |
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But she's a ginger so it's all good!
- Eric Cartman
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to
Oct 1, 2014, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to you think that's bad ] |
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worry about! This story would not please Teh Clone.
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Legend [15749]
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Walk-On [107]
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Re: you think that's bad
Oct 1, 2014, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to you think that's bad ] |
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Gainesville, Ga is where the same cops threw the "flash bomb" into the baby's crib.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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That baby was reaching for something
Oct 1, 2014, 2:45 PM
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You can't prove it wasn't.
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All-In [33418]
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I'm not CA, but if I had to guess, the decision
Oct 1, 2014, 2:00 PM
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came down to a higher likelihood of conviction with death penalty off the table and the financial drain on the state for these cases. See "Nichols, Brian".
Or they just assumed that fellow prisoners would do the job for them 
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All-In [38925]
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He wont last long as a jailbird..
Oct 1, 2014, 3:03 PM
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child killer, child-killing while sexting, sexting teen girl.
And add to that his baby fat looks.
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Legend [18026]
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Bertrand Russell quote I literally found yesterday:
Oct 1, 2014, 3:17 PM
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“The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell.”
...or the death penalty.
I don't like the Death Penalty and-without looking it up- I'm guessing the guy got life in prison? His life is going to be a living hell for however much longer it lasts. I hear child rapists/killers don't get treated too kindly behind bars...
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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He won't be in gen pop
Oct 1, 2014, 3:20 PM
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He'll be in protective custody or in a segregated section of the jail.
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Legend [18026]
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Still don't think he's gonna have fun in there***
Oct 1, 2014, 3:33 PM
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Well, not sexting teenagers why cooking baby type fun
Oct 1, 2014, 3:44 PM
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But he won't be in the hell on earth people think, or the hell on earth that he deserves.
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All-In [34113]
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Re: Well, not sexting teenagers why cooking baby type fun
Oct 1, 2014, 3:54 PM
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So we might not get the "infliction of cruelty with a good conscience" that so many of us desire.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Yup
Oct 1, 2014, 3:55 PM
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I demand my cruelty.
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All-In [28802]
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Legend [18026]
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You would define justice as...
Oct 1, 2014, 4:23 PM
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The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience?
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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We're having the wrong conversation
Oct 1, 2014, 4:30 PM
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Georgia has the Death Penalty, but it appears to be reserved for the blacks and mentally retarded.
Want to be Bama frat boys need not apply, because they hire real attorneys.
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Legend [18026]
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Re: We're having the wrong conversation
Oct 1, 2014, 4:33 PM
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All-In [28802]
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I would say that's a utilitarian understanding...
Oct 1, 2014, 4:47 PM
[ in reply to You would define justice as... ] |
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of what's going on, yes. It's also an emotivist's understanding.
Another way of understanding the death penalty might be to say that we're not really respecting the convict's dignity if we don't make the death penalty an available option as a result of their crime. If they commit a heinous crime, it would be unjust not to execute them. That's not to say that the standard is "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," because we're not just executing any person who kills someone else, we're imposing the maximum penalty for the most heinous of crimes.
Also, an often repeated claim is that life in prison is a worse punishment than a swift death. But if this is the case, then life imprisonment is actually less cruel (with a good conscience, of course) than is capital punishment. So, as has been done in other societies, since life imprisonment is so cruel, the lengthiest term one can be sentenced to must be ratcheted down in order to decrease our cruelty. That's how somebody like Anders Brevik ends up being sentenced to 21 years (even though he'll probably never leave prison, since the very low maximum sentence in Norway is really about making Norwegians feel nice and progressive, while there are other means for imposing lengthier sentences when society feels justice hasn't been done).
I guess my preference would be to retain the death penalty as an option, but to use it very rarely. That doesn't mean retaining it in law only and never using it, and that doesn't mean meting it out as much as possible.
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All-In [34113]
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Re: I would say that's a utilitarian understanding...
Oct 1, 2014, 5:06 PM
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I would say that's a utilitarian understanding of what's going on, yes. It's also an emotivist's understanding.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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All-In [28802]
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I do
Oct 1, 2014, 6:32 PM
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Glad somebody caught on to that. I'm pretty much in line with the virtue ethics folks, especially Alisdair MacIntyre. I also think the kind of thing Russell is saying implies consequentialism, which I think is really problematic.
But anyway, my point was just that you don't have to believe that the death penalty is cruelty with a good conscience, and that saying something like that implies a bunch of questionable beliefs.
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All-In [34113]
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Re: I do
Oct 2, 2014, 11:19 AM
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OK, but as long as you're talking to a utilitarian or a consequentialist or a an emotivist, your argument backfires.
In other words, as a utilitarian consequentialist, I should be opposed to the death penalty. Is what you're saying.
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Legend [18026]
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Not familiar with the logic being used in the first part
Oct 1, 2014, 5:16 PM
[ in reply to I would say that's a utilitarian understanding... ] |
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"Respect the convict's dignity" how exactly? That reads like some moralists overthinking of why we have the death penalty. It's intent is to punish, with supposed moral objectivity, and to assuage a society's psychological needs to feel safe. It's also said to be a deterrent, something that's been proven false.
The result is state sponsored murder, just not defined by the law as such. But it's still a "taking of life at the hands of another."
As for the life in prison vs death penalty argument: Life in prison allows for the individual a chance to repent, to work towards his own salvation either strictly from an internal perspective or from a spiritual perspective. It also allows for him to be separated from society and punished for his actions. These two things are necessary for a civil society. They speak to the optimistic and good in human society.
Compare that with the death penalty, which its cruelty lies in taking away a person's ability to rehabilitate his soul or putting a clock on his repentance. It is the absoluteness of its action that makes it the crueler punishment. It mars all that is good about humankind and reminds us of the more barbaric past we come from.
Nevermind the fact that it costs the state more to put a person to death and that it doesn't work. The moral objections are pretty solid though.
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All-In [28802]
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No, your first premise is not correct
Oct 1, 2014, 6:55 PM
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Or, at least, there are other reasons for the death penalty.
Its intent should be to do justice, not just to punish, and certainly not to "assuage a society's psychological needs to feel safe." The rest of why you're saying there just sounds like you're ignoring any aspects of justice that fall outside of a calculation of the punishment's utility. You also don't seem to be considering that it may not be just, in the sense that we're not respecting the criminal's agency as a person and in the sense that we're not respecting the heinousness of the crime, to simply throw somebody in jail and rehabilitate them. The criminal can only be found guilty of the crime if the courts have determined that he is responsible for his actions. Doing justice to those actions means respecting the criminal as a reasonable person like everyone else, rather than as someone who we've taken it upon ourself to reeducate. Further, there are some crimes for which imprisonment with three meals a day and regular exercise is not a fitting punishment.
Anyway, here's a good debate on the subject: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2011/09/4033/
Of course, I agree more with Feser, but I also find Tollefson's arguments powerful enough to be pretty squeamish about the use of capital punishment. Also read the Ralph McInerny piece linked to by Feser for more on what I was saying about dignity and justice.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Legend [18026]
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I'll read the link, but as for what you wrote...
Oct 1, 2014, 10:27 PM
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What "justice" does the death penalty create? Are you defining that as a balance of moral good and moral bad? That's unstable ground to base any action, let alone the killing of another human being. It offers an argument of subjectivity, does it not?
Punishment's main role, as an objective behavior modifier, is defined by its utility. If it doesn't modify behavior then it's not working. Correct?
Could you explain how we are respecting a person's agency by putting them to death? Or how rehabilitating someone is not respecting their agency or responsibility of their actions? I can't see a strong argument being made here.
Perhaps, I could see that argument if our legal system was infallible. But when you institute an irreversible punishment like the death penalty inside of a fallible framework, and worse, you ignore those opposing dynamics?
I'd say that's a pretty heinous crime, I wonder what the punishment should be?
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All-In [31907]
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Legend [18026]
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yes***
Oct 1, 2014, 10:27 PM
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