Re: question:

Legend [18024]

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Posts: 30156

Joined: 9/9/06

Fine, don't answer the question.

Jan 24, 2020, 6:00 PM [ in reply to Re: question: ]

-'Since when do bureaucrats dictate when foreign aid is released?'

They don't. But this is to point out that there was no other reason for the aid to be withheld (Trump has claimed he was looking into corruption). The pentagon already investigated Ukraine corruption and found they had made necessary advancement for the aid to be released.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup

"Undersecretary of Defense for Policy John Rood informed lawmakers that he "certified that the Government of Ukraine has taken substantial actions to make defense institutional reforms for the purposes of decreasing corruption [and] increasing accountability."

-'Biden was the only one who had a son working for Burisma a company which was being investigated by the man Biden extorted Ukraine to fire.'

"Burisma Holdings was not under scrutiny at the time Joe Biden called for Shokin's ouster, according to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, an independent agency set up in 2014 that has worked closely with the FBI.

Shokin's office had investigated Burisma, but the probe focused on a period before Hunter Biden joined the company, according to the anti-corruption bureau."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

-'I remember was Sondland testifying the only first hand evidence which was a repeat of Trump saying 'I want nothing, no quid pro quo.' If there is more hook me up, please.'

"Sondland also outlined in his opening statement that once he became aware that there was a hold on aid to Ukraine, he became concerned and lobbied for an explanation for the delay. Eventually, Sondland said he came to believe that the aid would not be released “until there was a public statement from Ukraine committing to the investigations of the 2016 election and Burisma, as Mr. Giuliani had demanded.”

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup

-"To say that you must admit that quid pro quo isn't illegal."

Quid pro quos aren't illegal. No one has ever made that argument. The argument was that there was a quid pro quo and that the "quid" and "quo" were abuses of power. (withholding military aid for personal political favor/interfering in our elections)

-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
This classic video that you guys keep posting despite the talking point being debunked long ago.

Posted earlier:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

additionally:
"In fact, Mr. Biden was just one of many officials calling for Mr. Shokin to go. Good-government activists were protesting his actions in the streets, as were eurozone power players like Christine Lagarde, then the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, along with Ms. Nuland and Senate Republicans.

“The position regarding getting rid of Shokin was not Vice President Biden’s position; it was the position of the U.S. government, as well as the European Union and international financial institutions,” said Amos J. Hochstein, former coordinator for international energy affairs at the State Department"

"Burisma, a smaller, privately owned company, played no role in Mr. Biden’s pressure campaign, and administration officials could not recall whether the company was even mentioned in meetings the vice president attended on energy matters."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/10/us/politics/joe-biden-ukraine.html

When you keep posting the same clip the only thing you're proving is how uninformed, biased and/or obtuse you're being.

-"They would have sought help from the judicial branch."
It's been pointed out to you before about why they couldn't go to the courts (this was about election interference and going to the courts wouldn't be resolved until after the election or at least it would be a risk) but I want to ask why, if Trump is incredibly innocent and there's nothing to hide, why is he hiding? Why not let the witnesses speak? Why not release the documents? Have they offered a reason for this?

(also somewhat funny to note that Trump's lawyers have also argued in court that the court has no jurisdiction between the executive and judicial in regards to information access.)

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The POTUS is obligated to ensure that aid is spent properly. A POTUS claiming the bureaucrats told me to do it, doesn't fly. So no. I don't buy that 'The only possible reason...chit.'

Plenty of small talk and MSM chatter about why Shokin was fired this but let's see what the man said.

https://www.scribd.com/document/427618359/Shokin-Statement

Shokin Statement

Shokin Statement - Free download as PDF File (.pdf) or read online for free. Sworn statement of former Ukraine Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin

-"Sondland also outlined in his opening statement that once he became aware that there was a hold on aid to Ukraine, he became concerned and lobbied for an explanation for the delay. Eventually, Sondland said he came to believe that the aid would not be released “until there was a public statement from Ukraine committing to the investigations of the 2016 election and Burisma, as Mr. Giuliani had demanded.”-

Fact is that Ukraine did assist dems digging for dirt on Trump.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire

Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton.

You guys spent 3 years trying to tie Trump to Russia and now you're ready to impeach him for investigating Ukraine helping Hillary. Sweet.

="In fact, Mr. Biden was just one of many officials calling for Mr. Shokin to go. Good-government activists were protesting his actions in the streets, as were eurozone power players like Christine Lagarde, then the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, along with Ms. Nuland and Senate Republicans.-

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-oproonce-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

--"They would have sought help from the judicial branch."
It's been pointed out to you before about why they couldn't go to the courts (this was about election interference and going to the courts wouldn't be resolved until after the election or at least it would be a risk) but I want to ask why, if Trump is incredibly innocent and there's nothing to hide, why is he hiding? Why not let the witnesses speak? Why not release the documents? Have they offered a reason for this?-

Dems had their chance to seek those witnesses they now claim are 'vital,' to the impeachment trial. What ever happened to Schiff's 'overwhelming' evidence,' and 'absolute proof?'

Only a fool would think a pub majority would help dems impeach a pub POTUS in this economy with all the trade agreements being renegotiated and unemployment being at 50 yr lows, blacks and latinos being historically low, more federal judges seated than any in modern history.

This is where the old guard in the dem party is right now.

Dems trust the courts.

That avoids the fact that...

"So yes, even after 4 separate investigations no evidence

The obama administration opened the investigation into...

Trump wants Biden investigated for going after corruption?

Perhaps in your mind and in the minds of others...

Just to clarify:

No, no underlying crime, no interview and no way...

question:

Intentional obfuscation, or willful ignorance.

Fine, don't answer the question.

OK, CT1988, now ignore all of this, EVERY bit of it,

You need to simma on down.***

OK.

Re: OK.

I've been in the basket of deplorables for years.

okay.***

Re: question:

You said the 2016 election was unfair

It was unfair to both parties.

Just reading that post made me feel like I was

lol, perfect analogy.***

They are using Gretchen Whitmer, Governor

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