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All-In [40936]
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I don't like Trump
May 31, 2019, 8:46 AM
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I am very politically conservative. I am fiscally conservative and not religiously conservative. This means that I like most of Trump's policy. But I don't like him as a human or a president. There is zero percent chance that I'll vote for him in the primary. I doubt very seriously that the democrats will put someone in there that would be moderate enough to attract me. They are going to go far left.
The dude is just such a jerk, he needs to go.
One thing that I am 100% sure about. Government is the problem, not the solution. Lowering tax revenue and not reducing spending is as stupid as raising tax revenue and increasing spending.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: I don't like Trump
May 31, 2019, 8:51 AM
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/\/\/\ THIS!!!!/\/\/\
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: I don't like Trump***
May 31, 2019, 8:55 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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did i miss Trump getting primaried?***
May 31, 2019, 8:59 AM
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: did i miss Trump getting primaried?***
May 31, 2019, 9:11 AM
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Bill Weld, the former governor of Massachusetts is running against him.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Wait,you don't like record tax increases in form of tariffs?***
May 31, 2019, 9:04 AM
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All-In [40936]
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Tarriffs have always been a liberal ideal
May 31, 2019, 9:09 AM
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Tax someone else. The tariffs just offset the corporate tax reduction to some degree.
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Oculus Spirit [97729]
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Irony not lost that tariffs were the sole source of revenue
May 31, 2019, 9:15 AM
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for the federal government for half of the history of our nation.
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CU Guru [1878]
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LOL yeah because global commerce hasn't changed since 1800s
May 31, 2019, 9:39 AM
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Maybe we should go back to the gold standard too, since you seem to think 19th century policy still applies to us in any way.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Oculus Spirit [81073]
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Looks like the tariffs actually went up AFTER slavery
May 31, 2019, 9:50 AM
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was made illegal.
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Oculus Spirit [97729]
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Yep. Helped give them jobs.***
May 31, 2019, 10:43 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Trump has put me back on the reservation.***
May 31, 2019, 9:51 AM
[ in reply to Like slavery?*** ] |
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CU Medallion [73569]
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never liked Trump, still dont like him but
May 31, 2019, 9:05 AM
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I love his policies and he is the only pub to do what he says he was gonna do. I was sick and tired of being lied to by people like McCain, Bush, McConnel, Paul Ryan.
I've always said it like this, Steve Jobs was an a-hole. He was an a-hole to work with as a boss, he was an a-hole to his friends, and was an a-hole to his kids. But he was one of the better visionaries of our time and was able to lead Apple to great heights.
I'm able to put up with a childish President if he does what he says and implements policies that make this country great.
All-time unemployment, roaring economy. I'll take it.
Queue the bashing libs
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: never liked Trump, still dont like him but
May 31, 2019, 9:34 AM
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I can agree, however, I would say that I would like him A LOT more if he would just STFUp on Twitter and just roll and do his thing.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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me too, but that is him, hence my childish comment
May 31, 2019, 9:45 AM
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I'll take him borish/childish comments as a President, than a smooth talking lying Pub who campaigns on illegal immigration and then does the complete opposite. Or campaigns on killing Obamacare but when they get the chance to do so, votes to not do it. My biggest pet peeve was when they campaigned on lowering spending but spent like a drunken #####. I will give Trump credit, we all knew he wasnt going to lower spending and he aint.
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Standout [345]
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Re: never liked Trump, still dont like him but
May 31, 2019, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to never liked Trump, still dont like him but ] |
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For what it's worth, if he just shut his mouth, put his head down and did the work, I think a lot of people wouldn't be so put off by him even if they still disagreed with his policy choices. I certainly can't speak for everyone but how you do something can be just as important as what you do.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i would agree on the pub side, but not on the lib side
May 31, 2019, 10:12 AM
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Just see how they treated Bush when in office. He was called every name in the book all the time. He was treated like he was the devil. And he never said one cross word to anyone. He never responded to the constant media attacks.
I wish Bush was more like Trump in that way. You can't let the media push you around. They smell blood if you do nothing.
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All-TigerNet [12851]
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Thats part of the hatred of Trump. They dont control
May 31, 2019, 10:30 AM
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The narrative. He can reach the people directly without the media's filter.....it can be argued that he may need some internal filtering.
one crazy tweet and off into left field they go.....
I honestly think Trump uses it against them.
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All-In [42194]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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lol, ok. smh***
May 31, 2019, 2:19 PM
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All-In [31906]
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FWIW, federal revenue isn't down***
May 31, 2019, 9:21 AM
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All-In [40936]
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I didn't say federal revenue was down, I said it was lowered
May 31, 2019, 9:31 AM
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tax decreases can spur the economy and increase revenue. Our economy was already strong when the last tax decreases went in to affect so the increase due to economy was less than the tax reductions. Our tax revenue increase will be small over the next few years, and our spending will continue to increase no matter who is in office and controlling congress.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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The effects on GDP were minimized because the tax cuts
May 31, 2019, 9:38 AM
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were so poorly targeted. Those who benefited didn't need it and didn't spend it. As predicted by most economists, the tax cuts had little to no effect on wages, thus eliminating any potential 1+ multiplier effect on GDP.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Trickle down effect didn't work 30 years ago
May 31, 2019, 9:40 AM
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And it doesn't work today. Imagine that.
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All-In [31906]
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Accept that it did and does...
May 31, 2019, 10:40 AM
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and trickle-down is a stupid term.
The tax decrease was across the board.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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All-In [31906]
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Actually "trickle down" is a ill-fitting name given...
May 31, 2019, 11:59 AM
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to supply-side economics for political purposes.
I tend to discount the opinions of folks who use the term, frankly.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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That way you don't have address the issues.
May 31, 2019, 12:06 PM
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Providing proof of the success of supply side economics is pretty much impossible. You aren't the first to have trouble with it and you won't be the last.
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All-In [31906]
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It's just as clear as providing "proof" against it....
May 31, 2019, 12:30 PM
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I don't ever shy away from debating topics on here. In fact, I probably do it too much.
I'm not sure I was ever asked to provide "proof" of anything and up until now, I suspect I've provided as much "proof" as you have to the contrary.
I think economics in general is all theory and it is very difficult to actually "prove" anything. But to start a discussion, I would fall back on the 1980's under Reagan. That was the first time real supply-side theory was applied. I can make a pretty good case that 12 years of sustained economic growth with avg GDP growth of 3.2%, growing government revenue, and 21MM+ new jobs created.
Another thing that seems to often get left out of supply-side economic commentary is monetary policy. Many people, even economists, seem to leave that part out. True supply-side economics is mixing monetary policy to stabilize currency with tax cuts to keep out of recession. The monetary policy is what has been lost over the last many years and now people just assume supply-side = tax cuts...and that's wrong.
That doesn't mean I don't think tax cuts can be justified to spur economic growth alone, but I do think it works a lot better with a more restrained monetary policy.
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All-In [31906]
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That's a very short-term way of thinking...
May 31, 2019, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to I didn't say federal revenue was down, I said it was lowered ] |
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is FY2019 revenue going to be lower than it would have without the tax policy change? Maybe
But how about future years? That's a pretty tough thing to prove or speak in certainty about.
Frankly, I think growth would have been slowed further this year without the tax change last year, given the protectionist policies that have been enacted and or being threatened now.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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yep,
May 31, 2019, 9:48 AM
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tax decreases dont work right away. For example. Apple said they were gonna build huge factory in US b/c of the tax decreases, but it takes time to build it and then hire the people to work in it. All that is probably years from the implementation.
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All-In [31906]
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Do you agree the protectionist policies are hurting our...
May 31, 2019, 10:39 AM
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economy?
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CU Medallion [73569]
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not sure what those policies are***
May 31, 2019, 10:53 AM
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All-In [31906]
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tariffs mainly***
May 31, 2019, 11:46 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Trump doesnt want any tariffs
May 31, 2019, 12:17 PM
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they are just temporary til we can get fair trade.
But for now, the tariffs will hurt the economy, hopefully to make it better long term. That is til a lib President comes in and gives the farm away.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Speaking of giving the farm away, have you spoken to any
May 31, 2019, 12:26 PM
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farmers lately?
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Oculus Spirit [97729]
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Last part is key.
May 31, 2019, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to I didn't say federal revenue was down, I said it was lowered ] |
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If no one will pinch a penny, then we're doomed, taxes notwithstanding.
We're riding $23,000,000,000,000 of debt right now COUNTING on near zero federal lending rates. And that depends on a stagnant economy, and especially stagnant wages and costs (inflation). Fed increased the federal lending rate 1% and that cost us an additional $110,000,000,000 in spending just to make our "minimum payment". The whole key to managing this charade for even longer is keeping money our of people's pockets. 10% of federal revenue is spent paying the minimum balance on our debt. The government doesn't have the protection of a 30-year fixed mortgage (because no one can underwrite it, nor call it, or repossess it). Our debt is serviced at an adjustable rate. It is seen as an asset, and it can be, so long as rates can adjust. Your mortgage company is also counting on wages remaining stagnant so in 30 years they will profit on your payments exceeding inflation. If you're locked in at 3.75%, that's an awfully dangerous gamble to assume inflation will remain low that entire time.
Anyway, I'm a broken record on this. We can go perhaps 10-15 more years, who knows. But one thing you can count on is that economic policy will NOT be allowed to put more money in people's pockets, or allow costs of goods to increase. Even the actuarial tables used to calculate commuted value in everything from annuities to lottery jackpots paid in lump sum, even those rely on an assumption of stagnant wages, buying power, and core prices. History will show we've all been played for going on 40 years now. IF a President does what Trump's doing, and attacks things that can increase core prices, increase domestic demand for products previously imported, which causes wages to rise, and stops cheap illegal labor, making prices for services climb, that's BAD, not good. 5-8% economic growth will destroy America. Wall Street knows this. It's a debt serviceability indicator more than a purely economic indicator. The fed raising rates from zero to 2.25% was a wakeup call. Coupled with Trump's pro-growth plicies, the market has topped, and flattened out. To the extent wages increase, growth increases, and exports increase, and labor costs increase (all "good" stuff), we will approach that cliff we've been playing keep-away from for decades now. Obama was exactly right when he said Americans would have to get used to a stagnant economy.
It's called "globalization". That has been sold for decades as the key to prosperity and growth. And we have prospered and grown, but at a hidden and deferred cost. And history will further show, what we've done was actually a response to the 1970's. Back then, everything was opposite of what it is today. Our economic numbers were actually excellent, although history remembers the end of the 70's and early 80's as a bad economy. Actually wages rose. The middle class grew in size, and income. Real GDP growth (adjusted for inflation) was high in the 70's. Real wages grew. By "real" I mean when adjusted for inflation. Interest rates had to be increased in the late 70's early 80's to offset inflation because of a "good" economy, which is why the economy became "bad". Real GDP growth was 5% in the early 70's. It's 1-2% today. If it hits 5%, we're dead. We're riding the dollar now, and a day will come when it's a choice between the dollar, and the economy. In this scenario, the dollar always wins, but there's no room left for it to win. Both will collapse.
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Corporate tax revenues down 15%. Individual taxes up 1%.
May 31, 2019, 9:29 AM
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Excise taxes and tariffs up 6%.
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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Overall revenue is up as corporate taxes are only 7% of
May 31, 2019, 9:48 AM
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the total.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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What is the significance of that statistic?
May 31, 2019, 10:14 AM
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How many times has tax revenue gone down from one year to the next in a growing economy in the history of our country?
It is misleading at best to say that overall revenue is up as a defense of the tax cut.
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All-In [31906]
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It is?....
May 31, 2019, 10:47 AM
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What is misleading is talking about tax rates and revenue in a vacuum, as-if it's a zero-sum equation and ignoring the impacts on economic growth, etc...
Trump's use of tariffs as an economic and political tool is likely going to stifle the positive growth/tax-revenue impact of the tax cuts.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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I agree, which is why I am adding perspective to such
May 31, 2019, 11:37 AM
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a misleading assertion.
Supporters of the tax cut can't seem to find any meaningful numbers to point to as proof of the efficacy of the tax cuts.
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All-In [31906]
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I don't think effects of tax policy can be adequate....
May 31, 2019, 11:50 AM
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evaluated after 1 year of implementation personally.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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The tax cut has had little to no benefit in year one. Agreed
May 31, 2019, 12:01 PM
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You are hopeful that will change in the coming years.
That is why Trickle Down is more of a religion than an economic theory.
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All-In [31906]
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Prove it***
May 31, 2019, 12:31 PM
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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You should research the meaning of the word "theory."
May 31, 2019, 1:16 PM
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If you are going to support the concept of "Supply Side Economics" as a "theory" then you should be able to easily point to the facts that support it.
It is a faith based hypothesis.
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All-In [31906]
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YOU stated the tax cuts didn't have any impact....
May 31, 2019, 2:11 PM
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"The tax cut has had little to no benefit in year one"
can you prove that?
Above I stated that it's not reasonable to evaluate overall tax policy after one year and I made no declarative statement of fact.
You did...so prove it.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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I would expect this level of juvenile argument from others
May 31, 2019, 2:35 PM
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but from you is a bit of surprise.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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You are dodging him. He seems more focused.***
May 31, 2019, 2:47 PM
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All-In [31906]
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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All-In [31906]
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You found a study....ok...
May 31, 2019, 3:46 PM
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It is my opinion that one cannot adequately judge the full effect of tax policy in one year of implementation.
And the fact that you found a study stating that the tax cut had little impact on 2018 is proof of what exactly?
Anyway...here is a better analysis of the situation.
https://taxfoundation.org/tcja-one-year-later/
Bottom line...you can't tell sheet after one year and your statement of "The most recent tax cut offers an excellent example of the fallacy of supply side economics." is ridiculous.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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That "analysis" was written before the tax effects were
May 31, 2019, 4:06 PM
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quantified. It is a hopeful guesstimate. Once again, we note the faith based nature of supply side economic theory. Once again, you have offered no empirical data. You demand proof and provide none.
Now, the reason you joined this thread was because you so often state that "federal tax revenues are up" after the tax cuts when the issue of the tax cuts comes up as though the simplistic statement has some additional significance. What is the significance of that statement? How many times have federal revenues gone down from one year to the next in a growing economy? Once? Twice? Never?
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Heisman Winner [119722]
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What are you really saying?
May 31, 2019, 9:41 AM
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Don’t be wishy-washy
??
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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I don't like that he lies and some of his tweets reflect...
May 31, 2019, 9:49 AM
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that which comes from a child who is tying to maintain control over things they can't control. I do not like some of his decisions but I'm patient enough to think that Trump may be right about what he's doing and I should, for the most part, hold my tongue and not become part of this country's great loud opposition.
I extremely like that he is doing what I believe is best for America. He governs somewhat like a parent who is trying to control a group of rebellious teenagers who are dead set against practical in lieu of following their emotions to a fateful end.
I like that he doesn't double talk and I like that politicians freak when a man cuts to the chase and says in what he means in America's common language instead of politalk. He speeches lack eloquence but he does not lack communication skills by any measure outside twitter.
I agree with you on raising taxes and increasing spending. That's Obama. I've read that tax revenues have increased since Trump took office so I'm not sure that applies to him since he lowered taxes and revenues have increased. However, so has spending though not more than during Obama's tenure. I think there are truths in your statement but there is no obvious reason to make that statement when discussing Trump as a man or POTUS.
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Heisman Winner [119722]
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Ditto for me....***
May 31, 2019, 10:36 AM
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Give me somebody better to vote for
May 31, 2019, 11:45 AM
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and I will.
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All-In [28802]
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There were a lot in the 2016 Republican primary***
May 31, 2019, 1:17 PM
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Agree completely - but none in the presidential election.***
May 31, 2019, 3:31 PM
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All-In [28802]
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This is why impeachment would be a good thing
May 31, 2019, 1:17 PM
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We'd end up with a much better, more savvy, more conservative person as president. Plus, there would likely be a backlash against Democrats for impeaching and removing the president, as most people don't like perceived partisanship. Why wouldn't somebody like that unless they're just attached to Trump for some reason?
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110%er [7555]
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Re: I don't like Trump
May 31, 2019, 2:33 PM
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Thank God for Trump.....he is exactly what we need at this point in our history because he is not afraid to tell all those nutty liberals exactly what a lot of us in this country are thinking.....they have tried and are still trying to kick him out of office because he tells them the truth and that is one thing they all are afraid of......the 8 years under Obama almost brought this country to its knees with all his lies and corruption.....and Trump is bringing America back stronger than ever with no help from anybody Washington DC....including all those Republicans who are a big part of his problem instead of trying to help him and Making America Great Again..... Go Tigers!!!!!
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Orange Blooded [4096]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 5219
Joined: 10/23/10
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I don't care much for Country Club/Establishment 'publicans
May 31, 2019, 2:35 PM
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They are about as useful as mammary glands on a bull. Trump is not that. I think he is doing a darn good job !
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All-In [31906]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37197
Joined: 11/22/03
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If Trump is not "Country Club"...then who the heck is?***
May 31, 2019, 3:48 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81073]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 56147
Joined: 9/13/04
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Isn't that what Mara Lago is?
May 31, 2019, 4:13 PM
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I mean if you own a country club (or a bunch of them)...
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Hall of Famer [21614]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 23420
Joined: 8/16/03
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His policies are not conservative.
May 31, 2019, 2:37 PM
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They are very much big government interventionism. He's a populist. He riles up the angry under educated people to feed himself (and the executive branch) power. He is a huge spending, huge interventionist big government nightmare.
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