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Topic: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001
Replies: 29   Last Post: Sep 12, 2019 11:19 AM by: Knuck®
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While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001

[12]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 9:46 AM
    Reply

The most important thing you can do is be sure your children, and grandchildren never forget it. When I found out it was Muslim terrorists that were responsible, I said "We are in for a hundred years war." If you don't make sure your children and grandchildren remember how it started and that it is a religious war we will lose it.

The United States has never fought a religious war before, and the strategy, the tactics, objectives, and the definition of victory are something we have never had to deal with previously. If we do not realize that all of these factors for a religious war are different than a war against a nation state we will almost assuredly lose.

So far, in my opinion, after 18 years ( more if you go back to the first Trade Center bombing) we have not recognized that. Their is no army, navy, and air force to defeat, there is no territory to capture, we must change their religion in which it is not only acceptable to kill infidels, but to become a martyr doing it has great rewards in heaven (I'm not sure a bunch of virgins is a reward, I'd prefer a $1,000 an hour hooker who knew what she was doing). How do we do that? It is not a one generation accomplishment. That is why you must teach you children and grandchildren to never forget.

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Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 9:51 AM
    Reply

Same as it has been for decades with radical Islam. Luckily the attacks are far and few between.

2019 white level member

Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 10:13 AM
    Reply

WRONG

Just the last thirty days there have been 119 Islamic attacks in 23 countries, in which 603 people were killed and 928 injured

Over 30 thousand major attacks since 9/11


Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 10:17 AM
    Reply

None in our country. The attacks im the USA are far and few between. That's what matters to me.

2019 white level member

Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001

[3]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 2:34 PM
    Reply

We have a much greater problem with right-wing extremists, white nationalists, and other such trash. The vast majority of the domestic terror has been at the hands of right-wingers since 2001, close to 80% according to the FBI.

Yet to a lot of people here in the US, Muslim = terrorist automatically. Which is pretty much spitting in the face of every Muslim that has risked his/her own life to help our guys both in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as many other places where we're fighting these radicals.

2019 white level member

Ooooooooooo, this explains why the Rep from

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 3:57 PM
    Reply

Minnesota, Ilmar Ohan, said this about 9/11, "some people did something," while speaking at an event supporting the Council for American-Islamic Relations.


Message was edited by: smitty1959®


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Go Tigers AND Tiger Nation!


Re: Ooooooooooo, this explains why the Rep from

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 4:19 PM
    Reply

She wasn't incorrect, a group of people committed a horrible act. Not all Muslims, just a group of people, yet now they're ALL the enemy, just because they're Muslim.


The same logic that says she and other American Muslims are anti-American because of their faith and their criticism of the Israeli government, and are part of the "enemy" since 9/11, can be applied to white conservative men.... OK City bombing, Charlottesville, Charleston church shooting, etc....

By extension, every Trump supporting white-bread right-winger is just as guilty and un-American as she is.

2019 white level member

Re: Ooooooooooo, this explains why the Rep from


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 4:51 PM
    Reply

I imagine you are also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist?


Re: Ooooooooooo, this explains why the Rep from


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 4:58 PM
    Reply

No, not at all. I'm just not the kind of racist, xenophobic azz-hole who blames a whole people for the actions of a few.

2019 white level member

Do you agree with the way she described with

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 9:09 PM
    Reply

what happened on 9/11? I don't care if she's Muslim or not, this description was wrong.

Should the OK City bombing, Charlottesville and Charleston shooting be described as "some people did something"?

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Go Tigers AND Tiger Nation!


Re: Do you agree with the way she described with


Posted: Sep 12, 2019 7:40 AM
    Reply

You're upset she didn't use enough pejoratives to describe the event and the attackers. That's fair, her wording was poor, but in the context of her whole statement I certainly don't think she was in any way making light of the event... She was only pointing out that it was the action of a specific group, but caused all Muslims to be blamed. She wasn't wrong. There's a lot of ignorant white trash that already hates her because of her religion and skin color, this was just low hanging fruit for them.

2019 white level member

Ah, the old straw Muslim woman argument.***


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 5:13 PM
    Reply




Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 10:53 PM
    Reply

Why about left wing extremists?
I abhor violence, but original post was about 9-11., committed by non-citizen Muslims. It dishonors thousands of dead when trying to liken it to hate crimes such as Charlottesville or Charleston. They are all bad, but there is a difference.
Back to sports now.
Peace.


Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001


Posted: Sep 12, 2019 8:59 AM
    Reply

way to completely miss the point.

OK, take out Charleston and Charlottesville, because of the vast disparity of scale.

Oklahoma City. My point still stands. If you're going to vilify all Muslims because of 9/11, we need to vilify all conservative white males because of OKC.

That's ludicrous, of course, but that's the exact same logic that the "Islamists in Congress, the enemy is here!" imbeciles are applying.

2019 white level member

Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001


Posted: Sep 12, 2019 7:40 AM
    Reply

Let's be clear, the 9/11 terrorist attacks were organized and carried out by al-Qaeda, a radical Islamic terrorist organization formed by Osama bin Laden. Fifteen of the 19 men were Saudis. Specifics are important.

2019 purple level member

"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: While most of us will never forget 9-11-2001


Posted: Sep 12, 2019 8:27 AM
    Reply

….and the attackers were bankrolled by the Saudi government. The same Saudi government that our current administration is all loved-up to, and struck a huge arms deal with very recently.

2019 white level member

I am absolutely certain that those hijackers had a bad


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 10:35 AM
    Reply

surprise waiting for them when they woke up dead. They were expecting 72 hot virgins, and got a completely different kind of hot reception in H-E-L-L.

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I understand your logic, but your stance perpetuates


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 12:58 PM
    Reply

more division and more wars. The lesson to be learned is what was once called the golden rule; treat others as you want to be treated". The lack of respect shown towards anyone's belief causes the believer to take a position of defense rather than a posture of acceptance. Just as you do not want to hear anyone disrespect your christianity and will take offense to any denigration of it, believers in islam, hindi, buddhism and the thousands of other religions will take the same level of offense toward you for the lack of respect towards their religion as you will to yours. Mankind was created with a free will to choose, and ALL of mankind should be able to maintain that free will to choose as endowed them by Abba Father Yahweh, and not be infringed upon except that their exercise of their free will to choose infringes upon others in a way that is not respectful of others. Our greatest opportunity to effect change in the hearts of others is to be wise as a serpent but harmless as a dove while thinking the best of every man... And no, I am ignoring the fact that I must yield my will to His will should it be necessary for Him to teach my hands to war. But we will never win a war if our hands and feet are quick to run to mischief, and are unrepentant of our sins...
If we perpetuate the mindset within ourselves and then pass that mindset on to our children and grandchildren, then, that hundreds years war will grow into a thousands years war because we will not have taught our children and grandchildren to respect and love, but to hate and despise; and that hate and despite will surely be returned in a never ending cycle of hate and despite that will only serve to destroy humanity rather than maintain and nurture it...

2019 white level member

Re: I understand your logic, but your stance perpetuates


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 1:58 PM
    Reply

So just to boil this down, you're intimating that the 9/11 terrorists were simply reacting to a collective disrespect of their belief system. And perhaps all previous islamic terrorist acts were justifiable on the same basis. And the fact that there koran advocates the killing of innocents, based upon their non-belief. Then is non-belief in their religion an act of disrespect. So the only way then to respect their religion is to join it.

Look up the word dhimmitude, you're in it.

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great, you've actually read something about world religions

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 3:07 PM
    Reply

but never assume that others don't know of what you might be making reference to... it only serves to confirm that you probably ascribe to the very mindset that I pointed out that needs to be rooted out...

besides, dhimmitude is no different from British colonialism through out Asia, Africa, the Caribbean and the Americas. It is no different than the Christian Crusades, the Napoleonic wars, or the Roman occupations... so... do you see how world history makes my point??

I clearly said what I meant, and I assuredly meant what I said... your inference is your issue, not mine...

2019 white level member

Re: great, you've actually read something about world religions

[1]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 4:37 PM
    Reply

Funny, every time someone tries to equivocate islamic terrorism, they bring up Christian Crusades. However this is the first time I've also seen the links to British Colonialism, Napoleon, and the Roman Empire. What about the Tabuk Crusades of 630, the Muslim Crusades from 635 to 1095? Oh wait, they were being disrespected, right?

Just for giggles how much of these latter comparisons are happening now or say the past 200 years. And let's compare that to the number of acts of islamic terrorism or deaths attribute to Jihad that happened, oh lets just say yesterday?

Historical relevance aside, how do you justify what they're doing now, or even try to compare that to a hypothetical mindset.

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the mindset isn't hypothetical, ask any KKK member

[2]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 5:33 PM
    Reply

or KKK sympathizer about their religious affiliation and they will 99.999999999999% tell you that they are christian... and they ran roughshod through communities killing blacks and civil rights sympathizers after the Civil War up through the early 80's... the last 200 years is FULL of the blood of innocent Americans at the hands of intolerant christians; and it is still happening even today... and to your point, I am justifying nothing. Intolerant behavior is still vile no matter who perpetrates it and the individual perpetrator is no better than another perpetrator of the same vile behavior...

so, since your bias is evident and it clouds your comprehension, my point is that hate of any of our heavenly Father's creation is to hate the Creator himself. It is the behavior of an individual, group or otherwise that we seek to change, but we will fail in every attempt to elicit that change when we approach that mindset with the same or more hate, venom and intolerance. Yahushua showed love and tolerance to the soldiers who would take him unjustly before Pilate, even to the point of healing the ear of a soldier that was cut off in His defense by a disciple. That is the exact example that any christian is to emulate even in the face of radical islamists, not to the point of death because we have every right to defend ourselves. But should we be more tolerant of Dylan Roof than Rizwan Farook?? Should we be more tolerant of James Fields than NIdal Hassan?? Should we be more tolerant of Steven Paddock than Faisal Shadzad? No, we shouldn't because all of their behaviors are putrid and one in the same...

2019 white level member

Re: the mindset isn't hypothetical, ask any KKK member

[4]
Posted: Sep 11, 2019 10:24 PM
    Reply

sorry to get back to you so late. Just got back from the rally, and had to soak my sheets for the sweat stains. Thanks for not outright calling me a "hater", so overused, right? Your original premise is that "lack of respect for others religion is what causes their offense, and that believers in islam, hindi, buddhism, and thousands of other religions,(I'm assuming Christianity included), will take the same level of offense at that lack of respect."

Islam by virtue of the koran and sharia law advocate and condone the killing of infidels, simply for their lack of belief in islam. This is codified in their holy book. Show me where this same level of "offense" as you call it is called for in Christian doctrine, Bhagavad Gita, book of Mormon, or the Five Classics. Show me where the actions of the KKK or Dylan Roof are justified by anything that appears in the New Testament or the example life of Jesus. There is no justification of violence of any kind in Christian doctrine. And yes anyone can say they are Christian, but the proof is in their fruit. "You will know them by their fruits", Jesus tells us in Matthew. By contrast mohammed teaches and lived an example of conquest, coercion by force, and death as a necessary consequence of unbelief.

I oppose this doctrine morally, ethically, and diametrically, not just on Christian principal, but on the basis of humanity. I could respect muslims infinitely more if they would expunge this from the koran. Again their terrorists can justify their actions in the same scripture that their peace loving proponents adopt. Christianity makes no such provisions and there is no justification for the behavior of "intolerant Christians." But again, anyone can call themselves Christian.

Informing our children and grandchildren of the facts of 9/11 is not about perpetuating disrespect, but keeping an awareness of the presence of evil.

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Re: the mindset isn't hypothetical, ask any KKK member

[1]
Posted: Sep 12, 2019 9:11 AM
    Reply

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/islam-muslim-terrorism-islamist-extremism-quran-teaching-violence-meaning-prophet-muhammed-a7676246.html

2019 white level member

Re: the mindset isn't hypothetical, ask any KKK member


Posted: Sep 12, 2019 9:44 AM
    Reply

I applaud Qasim Rashid's attempts to sculpt a peaceful narrative out of an arranged contextual collection. He has for many years fought the good fight for the peaceful front of Islam. To his credit he has often targeted certain clerics for their extremism. However too many clerics, imams, scholars, and Ayatollah's can contexualize for the purpose of war with the same level of scriptural accuracy. They simply need a revised book.

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you fail to exhibit the very understanding that I speak of

[1]
Posted: Sep 12, 2019 11:19 AM
    Reply

so, thanks for making my point...

Prov 11:30 - The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and he who is wise wins souls.

You won't win souls through condemnation, but by showing them in their book and in practical life applications the error that they are not responsible for, in that they are taught these things in error. But you have asserted rather strongly that passages in the Qur'an exist that 1. uses the term "infidel" and 2. calls for their death at the hands of man because they reject islam.

Please provide the actual writings in the Qur'an that literally and theologically back up your assertions. I'm quite sure that they don't exist, in as much as the Bible did not ever prohibit interracial marriage, endorsed the European & American retention of slaves, endorsed the opinion that negroes are sub-human (as originally written into the Constitution of the US), or the old un-scriptural cliche that "He won't put no more on you than you can bear"... but all of these things were taught and justified by teachers and preachers of the Bible (totally in error), and in less numbers, but still are taught today...

I will await your response in patient pose, and thank you for maintaining a respectable discourse...

2019 white level member

I'm not sure how you "change their religion" without just


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 1:23 PM
    Reply

making the problem worse. We are talking about radical Islam here and not all Islamics in general.


Never ever forget ***


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 4:07 PM
    Reply



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It started for America in 1801.


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 4:21 PM
    Reply

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War


Muslim Terrorists, or CIA assets, whatever***


Posted: Sep 11, 2019 5:59 PM
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