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Letterman [291]
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Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 8:56 AM
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The political ignorance in this country is unreal. Everyone needs to turn off biased news networks like MSNBC and FOX "News" and do their own research. Both of these stations are owned by people with extreme political bias and make those stations push their bias by altering the truth to whatever they want it to be. They hide behind stock tickers and official looking "News" logos but it sure doesn't seem like they do any reporting of their own. They just comment on other peoples reporting. It is nothing more than a political commentary reality TV show. This is what is strongly dividing our nation and turning into a nation of Republicans vs Democrats and nothing can get accomplished in Washington.
PARTIES DON'T CONTROL POLITICS. SPECIAL INTREST GROUPS ARE THE ONLY ONES PASSING LAWS AND THE "NEWS" HANDLE PUBLIC OPINION. Does anyone actually believe we wouldn't have Obamacare if Romney had become president? If so you are very wrong. Massachusetts was the first state with Obamacare only there it was called Romneycare. Both men had an almost identical list of financial supporters and would have done very similar things in office. The "news" would have taken their role by promoting it to conservatives and bashing it to the liberals had Romney passed it but about the only thing different about the law would be the name and the way the news promotes it.
Sorry, someone made a political comment earlier and just made me want to get this off my chest.
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Legend [19610]
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While I can't guarantee it, I am pretty sure that if Romney
Jan 18, 2015, 8:59 AM
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were president we would not have Obamacare, despite his record as Mass. governor.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: While I can't guarantee it, I am pretty sure that if Romney
Jan 18, 2015, 9:03 AM
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We May have RomneyCare but I pretty much guarantee we wouldn't have ObamaCare LOL
But, the op is right in some ways. There wasn't much difference in Obama and Romney. And both did have many of the same type financial backers
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Orange Blooded [2705]
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Sorry
Jan 18, 2015, 9:03 AM
[ in reply to While I can't guarantee it, I am pretty sure that if Romney ] |
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You're incorrect.
Johnathan Gruber crafted both Obamacare and Romneycare.
There was very little difference and all the main points were exactly the same. No matter who you elected, you were going to get the healthcare plan developed by the guy who gloats in how stupid the American people are.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Sorry
Jan 18, 2015, 9:07 AM
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I'm thinking he was joking just like I was. We wouldn't have ObamaCare because it would actually be named RomneyCare.
No difference in the care just the name.
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Legend [19610]
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Nope. If Romney were president I don't think a health care
Jan 18, 2015, 9:11 AM
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bill of the magnitude of Obamacare would have ever been taken up, despite his Mass health care law.
I belive he would have tackled some kind of health care reform, but I believe it would have been a much smaller, measured bill.
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Nope. If Romney were president I don't think a health care
Jan 18, 2015, 9:22 AM
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You're right. He did run more on the states rights issues about healthcare.
So, RomneyCare at the Massachusetts level is much different than Obama Care on the national level.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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You are missing the point
Jan 18, 2015, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Sorry ] |
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Romney would NEVER have a federal-based health insurance plan. That was his big motive... States should have more power and the Feds should have MUCH less.
So, while Gruber was involved in the construction of both, they are very different and I could see us still having some kind of govt. insurance, but there is no way Romney would have had it run by the feds. It would all be choice of the state.
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Letterman [291]
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Re: You are missing the point
Jan 18, 2015, 9:23 AM
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I got the point exactly. You are the one missing it. The point is that the bill wouldn't have been written be either one of these men so they would pass what their supporters say pass and the news would cover their ### on the side of public opinion which they did very well in your case.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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I do not understand what you are trying to say
Jan 18, 2015, 9:45 AM
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for one, the spelling and grammar are tough to read.....
Do you realize Obamacare was passed in Barack's first term? So if Romney was elected, Obamacare would still be in place.
Again, not really sure what youre trying to say.... we have some biased news coverage? Is that the point of your thread?
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Orange Blooded [2680]
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Re: You are missing the point
Jan 18, 2015, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to You are missing the point ] |
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> Romney would NEVER have a federal-based health
> insurance plan. That was his big motive... States
> should have more power and the Feds should have MUCH
> less.
>
>
> So, while Gruber was involved in the construction of
> both, they are very different and I could see us
> still having some kind of govt. insurance, but there
> is no way Romney would have had it run by the feds.
> It would all be choice of the state.
____________________________________________________________
elwyn07, you are spot on in your comment and for anyone to say that there was no difference between Obama and Romney, they are clueless.
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Rock Defender [69]
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The real problem here is that Obamacare was over reaching...
Jan 18, 2015, 9:35 AM
[ in reply to Sorry ] |
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and more about big govt. and not about health care. Hence, the bill was 2700 pages. Romneycare was only 70 pages. Not sure if any of this has to do with our Tigers.
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Orange Blooded [2705]
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Be careful, now
Jan 18, 2015, 9:01 AM
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The truth isn't received too well around here, sometimes.
Spot on assessment, though.
In fact, the architect of Obamacare Gruber, who famously declared how stupid Americans are, also crafted Romneycare. It was literally the same piece of garbage, no matter who we elected.
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CU Guru [1359]
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Romney would have very likely focused on other things, so
Jan 18, 2015, 9:13 AM
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while the potential exists, it is unlikely to have happened.
Slightly related topic, I'm also quite confused why my 60 year old mother is required to buy maternity care.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Ur mom must be hot!
Jan 18, 2015, 9:17 AM
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That what you get with GHC (govt health care)
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Letterman [291]
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Re: Ur mom must be hot!
Jan 18, 2015, 9:40 AM
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In theory Government Healthcare could be great if you had a competent government. As long as money controls everything in Washington that will never happen. What so many people tout as "Socialist Healthcare Systems" actually provide some of the best healthcare in the world in countries with competent governments. If you looked up best healthcare in the world you would be shocked to find that the US has horribly inefficient healthcare and many many "Socialist Healthcare Systems" are far better than the current US healthcare system. Some of you will just keep making fodder for your news stations to spit out because some of you don't want to get along or get anything accomplished. Keep telling yourselves how different it would be with a republican in office.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Examples please
Jan 18, 2015, 10:57 AM
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I bet you will say Canada and the Brits. Canada can't employ enough providers and England has an immigration problem that has already bankrupted their system.
I also bet you will say it's cheaper in other places, but we still have the best health care.
Another VERY important note is Obamacare is an insurance overhaul, not GHC. I personally think we should have gotten rid of insurance all together in lue of having the gov take it over. To your point there is too much money controlling that decision. Obamacare was and is a very bad deal. While some got around pre-existing conditions, the rest of us are paying out the nose for it (that's the socialist part). There was never a problem with people not getting the healthcare they needed in this country... Never! There are already laws in place for that. The big problem most people have is the fact that there were soooo many lies about what it was and how it worked when they were selling it to the American people. And then on top of lying about what it was, it was passed in a Very shady way. It had corruption all over it from the beginning and that's what I think people don't care for. I actually think they could have passed a bill to force insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions and that would have been a great deal more acceptable, but the problem is, that wasn't the main goal of Obamacare and everyone knows it.
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All-In [38427]
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Re: Examples please
Jan 18, 2015, 11:04 AM
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Anyone who bases their political views and ideologies on what someone inside the television industry is telling them has to be thought of as a fool .
Only a simple minded person would turn on the television this day and age and take what they here there as the pure , unadulterated truth . It never ceases to amaze me that so many folks today can be mentally corralled in such a manner as to bet on a 3 legged horse like the news reporting services in America.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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100% agree***
Jan 18, 2015, 3:14 PM
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Letterman [291]
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: Examples please
Jan 18, 2015, 3:48 PM
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Obamacare would be in place if Romney were elected because Obamacare was passed in his first term. I don't think it would look or function the same because the concessions we made in Obamas 2nd term wouldn't have been made under different leadership and congressional power. So I agree with you to a certain degree there.
As far as ranking of our healthcare, it reads to me more like a ranking of who is more socialistic. When major factors of what you are ranking are based on economic well being and behavioral issues, I find it hard to see how that relates to healthcare. Like you, I'm skeptical about a lot of things I hear and read (including rankings from WHO) and think that there are larger powers at work in most of these issues. For example, the insurance companies fighting FOR Obamacare now... That scares the poop out of me. I work in healthcare and I know especially when it come to specialty care, our peers in those other countries are WAY behind in technology and advanced techniques. Our biggest problem (and has been for years) is insurance. People don't understand or care how much it costs to get the necessary healthcare because they just expect their insurance to cover everything. If we didn't have insurance, you would treat your healthcare similar to the way to get your car worked on. You would shop around, haggle prices, and bad healthcare providers would be known and their business would suffer. As is, you have very little of that and a blanketed service that the patient has little control over. While I'm at it the other major factor in why our prices of healthcare goods are so high is the FDA. It take tens of millions of $$$ to get approval to come to market with any healthcare device. So no matter what the device is, the manufactures of these devices have to make that money back. And then these politicians throw their hands up and ask why our systems goods are so expensive. Just very frustrating and no signs if improvement anywhere.
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: Ur mom must be hot!
Jan 18, 2015, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ur mom must be hot! ] |
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Quote: "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples's money to spend". So the Feds now just print a fiat currency and borrow from other countries.
There is no one size fits all health care until the federal govt overloads and destroys the best and most innovative system that we had here in the USA. After that you will have no where else to turn.
Really want gov.run health care? Be careful what you wish for unless standing in line or doing without is your utopia.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Money in Washington is not the reason gov't is incompetent.***
Jan 18, 2015, 6:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ur mom must be hot! ] |
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Legend [19610]
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In all fairness, and I'm no fan of Obamacare, my insurance
Jan 18, 2015, 9:27 AM
[ in reply to Romney would have very likely focused on other things, so ] |
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policy that is offered to me through work also covers female related conditions such as obstetrics nad gynocology, even though I am a man.
My TV package also offers many channels to which I would never subscribe, but would not likely efect the price I pay if dropped.
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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may be trying to be funny but
Jan 18, 2015, 7:52 PM
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before Obamacare, if you were a female and of childbearing age you had the option to buy a child birth rider to cover.... Now you also pay for all of the contraceptives and tons of preventative measures that you may or may not use.
For the record, your coverage through work does not have pre-existing conditions either and thus must cover pregancy for obvious reasons.
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CU Guru [1372]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 9:14 AM
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You left out C ommunist N ews N etwork!!! In your overly biased news.
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110%er [7657]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 9:27 AM
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I believe Romney admitted that his Mass healthcare reform failed. I don't think he would have made that mistake again.
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Orange Blooded [4341]
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Is this still Tigernet. I'm not ignorant, they both suck.
Jan 18, 2015, 9:35 AM
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Now back orange arses!!
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110%er [5381]
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OXYMORON --
Jan 18, 2015, 9:40 AM
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Recruit [76]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 9:42 AM
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This is a football Board you freaking IDIOTS!!!!!! Go somewhere else !!!!!!
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Letterman [291]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 9:50 AM
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Actually this was posted in the Amphitheatre, if you want to see football only posts you can go to the tiger football boards. If you go to all tiger boards then this is one of them for general discussion.
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All-In [36409]
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The Lunge >>>>>>>>>> This Way***
Jan 18, 2015, 9:47 AM
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CU Guru [1665]
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That's the truth isn't it? Would love to see this forum
Jan 18, 2015, 12:12 PM
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turn back to one of Clemson athletics.
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Orange Blooded [3968]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 9:55 AM
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I definitely agree. There is no such thing as Republican or Democrat when it comes to the key issues for these "politicians" because all of them are bought and paid for by the same people for the most part. Key example is all these republicans campaigning on repealing Obamacare and making sure an amnesty bill won't pass but now that they've gotten elected they're "trying to work with the president." At the end of the day, it's no different than watching the WWE, it looks real but it's a rigged game behind the scenes.
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Letterman [291]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 10:02 AM
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Well said, took my son to a WWE match about a month ago. Now that you mention it, it is a lot like politics.
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 12:56 PM
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Everything would be more affordable if you could remove the vast number of gov regulations that require people to fill out compliance forms instead of providing a needed service.
There are few honest politicians who represent "us". We could send our most trusted friend to Washington, DC to serve us and they would be corrupted in two years.
They are bribed by lobbyists with campaign money. Those same lobbyists write the laws that congress passes but does not read to complete the deal. Wash,rinse,repeat.
We get pi$$ed on and think it's raining.
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Trainer [26]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 11:02 AM
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If Romney had the opportunity to sell "RomneyCare", I feel very confident that he would have done it in a more forthright manner. His basic character is far better than Obama's, and there would have not been the outright lies told to America to sell Obamacare ("if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your policy, you can keep your policy). "Your premiums will go down $1,500 a year". It garnered more "Pinocchios" than any president in modern history. Romney's character would not have allowed him to be this basically dishonest of a person.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Obamacare and political ignorance
Jan 18, 2015, 11:06 AM
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Wrong board.
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Associate AD [819]
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Well said, but Fox News has won.
Jan 18, 2015, 11:17 AM
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MSNBC followed their lead and now you have millions that in the words of Bill Maher "live in the bubble" day to day, week to week, month to month. As far as health care, it is a complete shame the richest country on Earth has a healthcare system that leaves so many with the prospect of just not getting help or going bankrupt in doing so. It blows my mind the billions we waste and the billions we send to other countries while our own citizens struggle with the ability to get proper healthcare for themselves or their children. I don't know the way out of all this but the AAC or the GOP idea of just let them die or go broke is rather sad for a country that prides itself on compassion and helping. End of rant.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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you talk about ignorance than post one of the
Jan 18, 2015, 12:06 PM
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Most ignorant posts on the subject. If Romney won the only reason we would still have the ACA after it passed in Barry's first term after he beat MCCaIN not romney........is because congress was unable to pass a repeal he was able to sign.
The landscape and pressures of Massachusetts are far different than that of the country as whole and especially the mass gop vs the national gop. That's like saying one time as a state senator so and so voted for a tax cut therefor they would have cut taxes as the president........it's totally failed logic.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Let's get clarity, please.
Jan 18, 2015, 3:31 PM
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1. The healthcare industry responds to the same economic laws as any other industry...
2. Except for the insurance companies sitting between the buyers and sellers.
3. Obamacare made a deal with the insurance companies, guaranteeing them $ trillions in new business, and subsidies if they lost money.
4. This enabled a transfer of other people's income to pay for some people's health insurance premiums and deductibles.
5. Obamacare does not provide healthcare, it simply subsidizes insurance polices, benefitting the insurance companies immeasurably.
6. There is not one item in the 2,000 pages of the Obamacare law that addresses lowering healthcare costs.
7. The law was written by liberal policy wonks and passed by a liberal Congress.
8. Romney, nor any other Republican had anything to do with it.
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Letterman [291]
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Re: Let's get clarity, please.
Jan 18, 2015, 8:50 PM
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In theory the Republicans didn't have anything to do with passing it but everything to do with the way it was passed. It was pressure from the republicans that forced out the public option which would have made the marketplace more competitive and again... in theory.... lowered costs. The whole point of this thread however was to illustrate that we shouldn't be living in a world of Republicans vs Democrats and instead work towards a world of Americans for a better America. They want us to keep bickering at each other so we don't address the real problems like lobbyists and biased news.
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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That theory is a stretch, a long stretch. In fact, due to
Jan 19, 2015, 10:32 AM
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the fact that no Republican co-authored, supported, endorsed, or voted for that piece of legislation, I would say the theory is false. And to call that monstrosity "the public option" is a misnomer.
I agree that the two party system is a bad one. However, I have yet to see a "no" party system work well in any country for any length of time.
The healthcare industry follows the laws of supply and demand like any other industry. The problem is that no industry works well when controlled by the government. Healthcare costs, and therefore accessibility, were not potentially bankrupting events prior to Medicare, Medicaid, and the Great Society. Political parties, in and of themselves, had little to do with it. It was government.
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All-In [40934]
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Everybody in the medical field loves obamacare
Jan 18, 2015, 6:52 PM
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the rest...not so much
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