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CU Guru [1033]
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Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 1:57 PM
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After reading the reports of Dax Hollifield's dad suggesting Venables not matching up to Bud Foster as a defensive coach, I decided to do some research. Draw your own conclusions.
Total Defensive (Yds/gm rank by year)
Year Clemson VT
2017 6 12
2016 9 19
2015 7 34
2014 1 17
2013 25 4
2012* 65 18
Scoring Defense (Pts/gm rank by year)
Year Clemson VT
2017 2 5
2016 12 30
2015 18 47
2014 7 17
2013 24 11
2012* 48 32
* Kelvin Steele was DC in 2011
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 2:01 PM
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All he did was embarrass his self making that statement.
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CU Medallion [67844]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 2:01 PM
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it was clear at the time that the recruits dad was "misinformed" or wrong in his belief. your numbers bear this out. I hope the enjoy their VT experience till they meet Clemson
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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Looking at the last 3 years of VT & Miami recruiting,
Feb 8, 2018, 2:04 PM
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he won't meet Clemson while he's at VT.They're not winning their division anytime soon.
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Trainer [28]
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To that point, I wonder if the kid or his dad has seen any
Feb 8, 2018, 2:07 PM
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of the last few Clemson vs VT games? VT has been clearly outmatched on both sides of the ball each of those games.
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CU Guru [1261]
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Re: To that point, I wonder if the kid or his dad has seen any
Feb 9, 2018, 11:10 AM
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Dax dad was right bud Foster isn't Venebles, coach V is better and has a lot more years than bud Foster has left to coach. Bud Foster just has the benifit of being around longer than Coach V has. He walked into a dumpster fire which was clemson defense after Steele was fired and within 3 years turned a our defensive for top 70 to #1 overall, that's amazing when you think about it. And since that #1 overall defense clemson has not been out of the top 10 in total defense. Like I said Foster just has a longer tenure and was very good for many years but times have changed. Coach V is the best coordinator in country. Sorry Dax your dad was very wrong and living in the past. Would have loved to have you but wish you luck at VT until if you play us we going to run your a$$ over. Get used to seeing clemson on top and know you could have been a part of that. But like I said no bad feelings towards you made best decision for you wish you luck in your football career go Tigers!!!
Message was edited by: HunterClemsonTigers
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Hall of Famer [23112]
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BV has 2 NC rings,also
Feb 8, 2018, 2:02 PM
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he's a $2 mil man. Best I can find about Bud, he's got 2 years left on a 5 year deal,that won't get added to until the deal expires, at $900,000 a year.
Bud has been one of the best in his time. After 30 years, he's on the backend of his career.
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CU Medallion [67844]
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Re: BV has 2 NC rings,also
Feb 8, 2018, 2:04 PM
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backend reminded me of the recruits dad who did at lest get a nice helicopter model out of it
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Maybe normalize for talent base, sos and all "others" that
Feb 8, 2018, 2:08 PM
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would have a real effect on making that comparison skewed?
Bud Foster is a HOF DC/Coach and I am a devout Hoki Hi hater.
Coach Foster was saddled with some of the absolute worst offenses known to ~D1 football in Beamer's last years as Frank held on far too long to a good friend in Stinespring.
After that it was a revolving door of futility, but Coach Foster continued to make Coach Beamer look good, putting numerous players in the Big Show.
VPI&SU signed BF to a five year contract to keep him long passed the time they knew Coach Beamer was going out to pasture.
Nothing Dax's dad said, emotionally compromised or other, changes what Clemson has in BV. Love that dood, glad he took the chance of a WR coach that had some turbulent moments after being tagged the head man.
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CU Guru [1863]
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Re: Maybe normalize for talent base, sos and all "others" that
Feb 8, 2018, 2:15 PM
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Understand your statements about VT and bad offense over the past several years. However, another take on this would be how fast paced and successful Clemson's offense has been over the past 5 years. That meant our defense saw way more playing time than in the past when we ran ball control offenses. To send your defense out there for 3 or 4 extra opponent drives each game, and still have one of the Nation's best scoring averages and yards given up is a true accomplishment. It means two things to me ..... great starters and quality back-ups. Subbing players in an out is a necessity in today's fast paced game.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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HUNH is running more plays, it doesn't necessary mean a team
Feb 8, 2018, 2:28 PM
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suffers in TOP. Clemson didn't have a lot of 3 and outs strung together over the years, especially not DW4 years, but when they did, that and turnovers, BV and the defense got ripped.
Look at the some of the individual games and it was certainly discussed in 2016 when Clemson went to the title and got bent over by VPI, UL and a handful of others when the defense was admittedly tired, but not necessarily let down by the offense - all of it is contributing. They were flat worn out, but it happens to most all offenses/defenses when they get stopped or other. We've seen this staff go 3 deep in games to protect against that when ever possible, BF hasn't had that luxury either. Do you think the greatest defense known to college football in Bama got worn out in the title game? Did 3 and outs stop their ball control offense from protecting that vaunted defense. So much more to the story; LSU was yet another.
Really, Clemson's TOP[over used stat often as well] hasn't really been an issue save a handful of games when the opposing defense dominated the offense. Our own HC mocked those that suggested the HUNH was a detriment to good defense. He might know something about it? I'd say they have to work together, just as any offense and defense needs to protect the other. You are what you practice against, which is why at times our defense has been made pedestrian in some of the power ball games. Hasn't happened often, thank goodness, but the recent Bama game is another.
There are plenty of factors, you get the gist, but to hang the woes of VPI on Bud Foster? Nope. There's good reason he survived the man that put him there.
Sorry, don't know how this didn't make the first run. Sad days...
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110%er [7238]
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Moments Before Dax Hollifield's Dad Made That Assessment
Feb 8, 2018, 2:10 PM
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110%er [6281]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 2:11 PM
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Bud Foster did lead the nation in total D in 05 and 06. Hard to compare them just based on the last 6 years. Clemson has been in our prime and VT was in their prime in the 2000s. We have better talent now than they do. BV is probably the better coach as of today tho I think.
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All-Pro [697]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 2:37 PM
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05 and 06 is before the evolution of the spread offense. That's a pretty big paradigm shift that has to be considered.
Louisville fans are excited about Brian Vangorder because he won the top assistant award at UGA 15 years ago. He's been pretty bad in college recently.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 3:06 PM
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I agree but you have to take into account that VT probably had more talent than us back then on D and now we have more talent than they do on D.
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Commissioner [970]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 6:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself. ] |
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The compar sion was between BV and Foster. If we want to to the early 2000's, i think we'll have to see what BV did at OU.
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Orange Blooded [3290]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 9, 2018, 7:39 AM
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Add in 5 CFP games in the last 3 years. Yes VT played in a bowl game but I dont believe there was the same level of competion and we still have 2 more games against the No 1 or 2 team than the number of their bowl games! ACCCG probably even out.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Steele had two top 25 defenses. 2011 and 2012 were rough on
Feb 8, 2018, 2:31 PM
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both coaches due to massive attrition.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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Let's inject a bit of objectivity here.
Feb 8, 2018, 2:39 PM
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Both have done well with less but never has Bud had the talent Brent is now enjoying. Imo, there's no objective way to compare the two. I refuse to insult or bring reproach on one to bolster the reputation of the other. It's chickenchit to do so for Bud is a fine DC.
I'm not excusing or accusing anyone including the father of that recruit choosing VT but in my opinion the kid wasn't able to handle the competition here at Clemson. Never-the-less, had Venables wanted him he would have signed with us.
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All-Pro [697]
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Re: Let's inject a bit of objectivity here.
Feb 8, 2018, 2:42 PM
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I think Bud is very good too but recruiting is like 70% of the job in college football. It's not like he hasn't been there long enough to build relationships.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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All-American [590]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 8, 2018, 3:17 PM
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There was a time but now Foster's star is fading.
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All-In [27186]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 9, 2018, 10:34 AM
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Thank goodness he ain't no Bud Foster is all I can say.
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CU Guru [1261]
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Re: Venables vs Bud Foster Judge for yourself.
Feb 9, 2018, 11:07 AM
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Dax dad was right bud Foster isn't Venebles, coach V is better and has a lot more years than bud had left to coach. Bud Foster just has the benifit of being around longer than Coach V has. He walked into a dumpster fire which was clemson defense after Steele was fired and within 3 years turned a our defensive for top 70 to #1 overall, that's amazing when you think about it. And since that #1 overall defense clemson has not been out of the top 10 in total defense. Like I said Foster just has a longer tenure and was very good for many years but times have changed. Coach V is the best coordinator in country. Sorry Dax your dad was very wrong and living in the past. Would have loved to have you but wish you luck at VT until if you play us we going to run your a$$ over. Get used to seeing clemson on top and know you could have been a part of that. But like I said no bad feelings towards you made best decision for you wish you luck in your football career go Tigers!!!
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