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All-Time Great [90076]
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Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky
May 29, 2018, 4:45 PM
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is an apples vs. oranges comparison.
Whites have used the "N" word for several hundred years along with spook, coon, jigaboo, etc. It was meant to point out that blacks were inferior and lower than dirt and similar to animals like apes and monkeys.
Blacks used cracker or honky as well as other names for whites to describe people who they didn't like because whites considered them inferior and treated them like ####.
If you are a white person and don't understand the double standard when it comes to comedians, you are a snowflake of the highest order. I don't see many white people getting upset when Pryor or Murphy or Rock or Chappelle use these words because they aren't meant as a term that they are inferior or animals. It just means they are white.
Whites using the "N" word are using words that originated with people who thought blacks were inferior. Blacks using cracker originated with an oppressed people who were slaves and then treated as a lesser people by many for many years.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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This probably fits here better:
May 29, 2018, 4:49 PM
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Clemson Sports Icon [55167]
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WWWHHHHHHHHoooo
Jun 7, 2018, 11:35 AM
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oooERE AM I?
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Clemson Sports Icon [55167]
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JHC, I DGUAR'd the absolute F outta that don't even know how
Jun 7, 2018, 11:36 AM
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yet it kinda works
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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I understand that there is a double standard, and that
May 29, 2018, 4:55 PM
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the double standard is used as an excuse to perpetuate hate and division. The snowflakes are the ones who are looking for every excuse to be offended and victimized.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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What I’m saying about the double standard is that there
May 29, 2018, 7:27 PM
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really isn’t a double standard if you dig down deep and examine the history of whites thinking blacks are inferior and treating them that way. Blacks then respond by hating whites for thinking they are inferior.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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And have we learned nothing from all of that?
May 29, 2018, 8:40 PM
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If we still believe that such past wrongs can somehow be corrected or repaired by violating the very priciple that was violated in the first place, then we have not.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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You mean by making all white people slaves and then treating
May 29, 2018, 8:57 PM
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them as inferior after freeing them?
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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No, I mean the principle of treating everyone as an
May 29, 2018, 9:21 PM
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individual, instead of as part of a group for gain or political purposes, and treating every individual with the same dignity, respect, and compassion with no regard to race or skin color.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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All-Time Great [90076]
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Not acceptable just different
May 30, 2018, 10:26 AM
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and for different reasons.
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Odd that you feel the need to be disingenuous about it.
May 30, 2018, 12:24 PM
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White racism you clearly find damnable and irredeemable, while black racism you contextualize and rationalize.
Perhaps you don't see that you're tacitly excusing it, but I don't think you're that ignorant.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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I think you're right somewhat. I don't excuse black racism
May 30, 2018, 12:45 PM
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because I don't feel anyone should hate a whole race or whole country but if I felt a certain people like Germans or French, thought Americans were inferior (some do), my hate for them would stem from them hating me or thinking I'm inferior.
That's the rub of the whole thing for me. Let's say a mixed marriage is about to take place and the white and black parents of the couple both disapprove. In my experience, the white parents, generally speaking, would oppose the marriage because they wouldn't want grandchildren with their blood to also have black blood, while black parents would disapprove because they would think their son/daughter would be treated as inferior by the white family, generally speaking of course because I'm sure this wouldn't always be the case.
I do feel white racism is more damnable and irredeemable probably because I'm white and can't understand it. It's easier for me to understand black racism.
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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When you match their hatred, you will simply reinforce
May 30, 2018, 1:10 PM
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their view of you. When a white racist hurls slurs at a minority of any stripe and the reaction is belligerent violence, the stereotypes that racism is founded on are merely reinforced. This doesn't redeem the white racist, but it also does nothing to remove the stigma of inferiority.
The white racist assumes they are superior. The black racist assumes whites feel they are inferior. (I'm using your theory of black racism here. I think racism of all stripes is actually an outward projection of the in-group preference all human beings exhibit.) Both assumptions are born of insecurity, both lead to increased division, and both are quite bigoted.
Love and respect are the only way forward. No strain of bigotry can be excused, rationalized, or tolerated if we are ever to rise above this petty anger and remember that we are all one.
Not that I expect that to happen in my lifetime. Too many people have vested interest in maintaining the divisions, and they have too much social control. I rather expect it to boil over eventually. You will be in a tough spot when that day comes. Nobody gets to pick their side in a race war.
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Tiger Titan [51309]
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Having a hard time answering...
May 30, 2018, 1:21 PM
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because I'm flabbergasted that you just asked me how racial slurs keep us divided.
Why would offending white people be acceptable while offending black people is indicative of unrepentant racism? Do you hold white people to a higher standard because you feel they're superior, or have more control over themselves?
Trying to clarify because I have to be missing something. Your question makes no sense coming from your side of the argument. Unless, I suppose, you believe white people have a duty to allow themselves to be insulted and dehumanized to atone for the sins of long-dead people who looked like them.
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Tiger Titan [51309]
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Short of finding myself in the midst of some sort
May 30, 2018, 4:59 PM
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of hostile black crowd who was looking to lynch a cracker, I can't imagine the work having any power whatsoever, unless I were to give it power by trying to equate it to the n-word.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Does no one know what a double standard is?
May 31, 2018, 12:23 PM
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Definition of Double Standard might be important at this juncture.
a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people or circumstances than to another;
So, if Group A does X and Group B does X but it's only bad for Group B to do X, then that is, by definition, a double standard.
What you guys are doing is trying to JUSTIFY the double standard. You can't possibly deny that what you are advocating is a double standard unless you throw logic and the actual definition of the word out of the window.
This is why political correctness is such a disease. It causes people to be irrational.
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Tiger Titan [51309]
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Heisman Winner [83270]
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what about blacks using the "N" word?
May 29, 2018, 5:02 PM
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I'll hang up and listen.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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It's a satirical play on white people using the word?***
May 29, 2018, 5:04 PM
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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If you want me to be nice to you, then you have to be
May 29, 2018, 5:09 PM
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nice to me. If you want me to respect you, then you have to respect me. If you don't want me to insult you, then don't insult me. If you want to be allowed to call me a derogatory racial slur in jest, then you have to be willing to allow me to call you a derogatory racial slur in jest. It's not complicated.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Do you believe that language is an equally distributed power
May 29, 2018, 5:18 PM
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that all words have the same weight and responsibility in their use in society?
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Heisman Winner [83270]
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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CU Medallion [19551]
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I hope you find success fighting that "double standard"***
May 29, 2018, 8:01 PM
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Words only have the power you give them.
May 30, 2018, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to Do you believe that language is an equally distributed power ] |
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The reason the word "cracker" has no power is white people do not respond violently to it. No matter what vitriol someone spews at you, you can disarm them completely by refusing to participate.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: Words only have the power you give them.
May 30, 2018, 12:33 PM
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It's black people's fault that the n word is bad?
You guys are throwing some crazy racist stuff out here today. All because of Roseanne. Lol
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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I assigned no blame.
May 30, 2018, 12:48 PM
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The reason the word '######' still has power is simple, though. Black people could easily rob it of all power in quite a short time period if they decided to. They will not, because in the current state, the word actually GIVES them power. They can render someone persona non grata, all of their arguments rendered invalid in the public eye as soon as they use that word. This is why the leftists have an ever expanding list of speech that is considered some -ist or -phobic. In a victim culture, victimhood whether perceived or real gives one social power.
Even there, hidden behind hashmarks, the knowledge that I typed a certain series of letters in a discussion about that series of letters will no doubt anger someone. Someone like yourself, bent on finding racism where there is none, will (continue to) believe I'm racist, or even if you don't, you will continue to proclaim that I am. All I've actually done is participate in the discussion and point out some fairly obvious and simple truths, but you seek to gain power by labeling me. And I will deny you that power by refusing to lower myself to the charge, secure in the knowledge that I treat people with respect regardless of their melanin content.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: I assigned no blame.
May 30, 2018, 1:25 PM
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Or.... Hey I have an idea. Listen.
How about black people change the harsh "er" sound at the end to a soft "a" sound and kidnap the word from racists. Then, rather than taking a submissive role that would further embolden racists, it puts them on offense and drives the racists crazy. And it would further serve to highlight what racist pieces of crap people who use the original word are.
They should totally do it. I bet rappers could help promote the idea.
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Man, I bet if they did that racism would be over in a hurry.
May 30, 2018, 1:57 PM
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None of your conclusions actually follow. White racists are not driven crazy. They think the word is demeaning, so seeing black people demean each other and themselves doesn't bother them.
Also you don't have to highlight an actual racist. They will make themselves known.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Why don't white people respond harshly to "cracker?"
May 30, 2018, 5:59 PM
[ in reply to Words only have the power you give them. ] |
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but black people respond harshly to the "N-word?" when used in a certain context (the context point is being forgotten in this argument)?
Could it be the history of the words and the subjugation of the powerless by the powerful? Could that play a role? Black people for a long time were not able to respond to the use of the word, they just had to "take it" so your point about "refusing to participate" doesn't apply in this situation. I can understand their (black Americans) action of "taking the word back" because what they are doing is trying to regain a sense of empowerment over a word that for so long was used to strip them of all dignity as a person.
"Cracker" has no connection to historical subjugation so any comparison between it and the "N-word" is a bad comparison beyond a superficial level.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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They don’t, yet come on Tigernet and cry about it.***
May 30, 2018, 6:35 PM
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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All I see is a bunch of white guilt
May 31, 2018, 2:29 PM
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and trying to shame others into sharing it.
No thanks.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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I’m a little guilty. I used the “N”word until about
May 31, 2018, 2:57 PM
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7th grade. Why would anyone want you to share? Assuming you weren’t born until the 80s.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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When people behave super-aggressively PC it is because
May 31, 2018, 7:41 PM
[ in reply to All I see is a bunch of white guilt ] |
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they are compensating for personal shame about something.
Clearly emotionally unhealthy behavior. That's why they also usually become insulting because its a sensitive spot for them Then they use the plight of black people to gain some sort of moral advantage for themselves.
Sad.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: When people behave super-aggressively PC it is because
May 31, 2018, 8:06 PM
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Since you're the most patronizing poster here, you must be supremely screwed up.
Who hurt you? Show me on the doll where they hurt you.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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So should we change the word slave to something else?
May 31, 2018, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Why don't white people respond harshly to "cracker?" ] |
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Because, if we go by your logic...
Could it be the history of the words and the subjugation of the powerless by the powerful?
then Eastern Europeans are suffering terrible trauma by that word being used, as it directly named after them. Their own race "Slav," being the English word for being owned by another person, due to the prevalence of slavs being enslaved in Western history.
Would it be presumptuous of me to guess that you are probably not worried about that? Why do I have the nagging feeling that it is impossible for you to apply your logic consistently if it isn't centered on being sensitive to blacks in the US? What would the argument there be, instead of it being a few hundred years ago, we should only be sensitive to language that is relevant to a couple hundred years ago?
Maybe we should try to change history, so that we can follow your logic and still it only benefit non-white people.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Nobody will answer this?***
May 31, 2018, 1:48 PM
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Maybe because context the logic is used is needed?
Jun 1, 2018, 8:43 PM
[ in reply to So should we change the word slave to something else? ] |
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That sentence you used was used in regards to a discussion about the use of the N-Word and the use of "cracker" it wasn't trying to make a greater point about all language and when we should use it. In this case, it was clear who the powerless and powerful was referring to (black americans/white americans).
Any other application of that logic may not make sense based on the context it was used. Which is why you tried to take it out of the context it was used so that you could try to "win" some argument.
If you want to use the N-Word as a way to fight back against some sort of "white guilt" or being too "sensitive" to blacks in the US then go ahead. But I firmly stand behind my argument.
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Actual logic is not dependent on context.
Jun 2, 2018, 10:19 AM
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CU Medallion [19551]
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I think CSO was meaing "logic" as in "reasoning"
Jun 2, 2018, 4:08 PM
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or "argument," "rationale" and not any sort of strict principles. This was pretty obvious, right?
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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My only argument is that there is obviously a hypocritical
Jun 3, 2018, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Maybe because context the logic is used is needed? ] |
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double-standard.
I don't care about getting even, or being able to also complain, or anything else like that.
And your post felt like a dodge of my specific point.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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There is a double standard, that's not the argument
Jun 3, 2018, 4:01 PM
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the argument is to the "why?" of the double standard and if there is a historical reason for the double standard that explains why it exists. The argument, by its definition, needs to stay between the use of one word versus the use of another, in this case- the N-Word and Cracker. Your attempt at broadening the topic to a wider arena did nothing to address the actual argument, but instead it acted to try and obfuscate the point. It was a dodge of the original argument.
But to humor you, I'll say this about your question, If you call a black person in America a "slave" you probably will have very similar reactions as to using the N-word. But if you call a white person a "slave" it is very unlikely you will have the same reaction. Is this hypocritical or is this illustrative of a history that the words represent?
I think over time the use of the these words will become less and less and their "power" will also lose their strength so you can rest easy in knowing you won't have to endure this "hypocritical" travesty forever.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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It might not be your argument, but it is from others...
Jun 4, 2018, 9:10 AM
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https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Only-morons-think-there-is-a-double-standard**-23560497
I know why the double standard exists. Politics. All justifications of the double standard are for this purpose and based on cherry-picking history. This trickles down to self-righteous people who look for low-hanging fruit to gain access to the moral high ground. These poor hoodwinked souls don't think about the politics as much as they do how good it makes them feel to stand up for the "victims." But identity politics serve up all the hypocritical and irrational talking points.
And more than the existence of the double standard, is the extremely aggressive self-righteousness that surrounds the debate.
Why does the double standard matter? Not because I care about being able to use offensive words. Not because I am personally offended by the double standard. But because it makes race relations worse. If only one side is allowed to be heard out, then things get worse and worse. Hell, Trump got elected because of this.
And PC group-thinkers can't see that their paternalism is making everything worse, for blacks especially. I would imagine that, like any other group of people, most black people would prefer to stop being treated like children by all the self-righteous white people and the race-baiting political hacks. If we would just finally treat them equally and not limit their access to justice and prosperity based on the color of their skin, the rest is counterproductive.
Credit to you for making points instead of losing your mind and throwing tantrums like plenty of others around here.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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I don't think the history is cherry-picked at all.
Jun 4, 2018, 4:38 PM
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It relates to a very specific history between blacks and whites that wasn't that long ago. It's what makes the word(s) unique and "important." I think as we get further out from that history, time will dilute the power of the words (not the power of the history, but the emotional connection to the words that call-back that history) and the words will be, for the most part, forgotten. I don't know when that will happen, as I think the words reflect societal inequalities that still exist, and are of a much bigger issue, but it will happen as it does with all words.
I agree with this statement you make and I think it's the key to why the words matter still today.
"If we would just finally treat them equally and not limit their access to justice and prosperity based on the color of their skin, the rest is counterproductive."
I think this inequality that you point to and the history of the word are very much still tied to the word and it's why the word has the (unique) power it has in language today, at least in America.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Arbitrarily tying words to other ideas is counterproductive.
Jun 5, 2018, 10:48 AM
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In reality the N-word is just a word that began as a descriptor of skin color. People (of all colors) choose to make it relate to dozens of other things. I don't use it. But it's not because I believe there is anything wrong with the word. It's because I know people are irrational and its not worth it. That's the reality of that word.
People (all people) are better off if they are not looking for things to forcibly interpret incorrectly. A person should be judged comprehensively and on their intent. Political correctness is irrational because it does not care about intent and it does not care about context. It is a medium for dishonestly extracting offense from innocent intentions.
Anyone who seeks to justify a double-standard based on race is not promoting equality. That is a logical fact. They are promoting social engineering or revenge.
And this debate absolutely involves cherry picking history. The same considerations and attention are not afforded to other groups who have suffered. And it denies the global context of slavery.
If blacks should not be judged for the color of their skin, but whites should, then that is not something that society will ever be ok with. That is a not a path to peace or understanding. It is a path toward unending rivalry and hostility. Me being white doesn't mean I share one shred of "guilt" or "blame" for slavery or Jim Crow. I was born with my skin and I will only accept judgment for my actions and my intent.
You either end prejudice or you simply change it's angle. I prefer to end it.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Words and their meanings evolve.
Jun 5, 2018, 4:17 PM
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You signify your understanding of this when you say, "the N-Word began as a descriptor of skin color." The word and what it means changes and it's just as counterproductive to ignore this aspect of language. In other, less offensive, examples you see this with "black," "negro," "colored," "african-american" as their use changes based on how the culture and context they are used changes.
Your second paragraph: I don't see anyone (or rarely) forcibly interpreting the use of the "N-word" incorrectly. I would agree that if the word is being talked about academically like we are now, and someone else gets offended by its use in that context because we are simply white men using the word, I would agree with you. That's why a big part of my argument on this issue is about context. I'm not an absolutist on this issue as context is everything, but I do think the N-word is incredibly different and more powerful a word than "cracker" which is what this whole argument was originally about.
The use of the word and the context its used are almost always used negatively when it's a white person using it with a black person. It's the power (and the history of the word that gives it that power) that is the precise reason why the white person is using it against the black person. It's the intent behind the use of the word, and it's almost never innocent.
Third Paragraph: The double-standard already exists because there is no equal to the "N-Word" to describe white people or their history. That's why the comparison between the N-Word and "cracker" isn't a good one. Everyone is allowed to say the "N-word" so no double-standard exists there, but the consequences are different based who is saying it and the intent (depending on context). Same as if you yell "fire!" in a theater and there is or isn't a fire changes the consequences of you saying the word. That's just how language works.
Fourth paragraph: Okay, I think I understand how you're using "cherry picked" now. Usually when that phrase is used (of how I've seen it used) it's meant to mean that the facts chosen were chosen to misrepresent the actual history which is not the case here. The word and its use has a pretty narrow historical truth from which it's pulling but I wouldn't describe that as "cherry-picked" but that is a whole other argument I guess. But I will say, I'm pretty sure many other groups who have suffered have their own words and vocabulary that offends them too.
Fifth paragraph: Not sure who is arguing that whites should be judged for their skin color but not blacks (or anyone for that matter). I don't think you should feel guilty about what other white men did I don't know who is arguing for that to be the case. And you totally should accept judgment for your actions and intent and that's what I'm arguing for here. On that point, let's use an analogy or thought experiment...
Think of words as tools, some tools are right to use for certain jobs and others are wrong to use. If you want to dig a one foot hole, you would use a shovel and not dynamite, right? No one says you can't use the dynamite to make that hole, but there are also known consequences to using it. Now, what if you use the dynamite and blow your leg off? You used your own judgment to choose the tool but the consequences of that judgment literally blew up in your face, whose fault is it?
I hope prejudice one day ends, but based on the entire history of humankind, I doubt that will ever happen. (Ending on an upbeat thought!)
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Re: Words and their meanings evolve.
Jun 6, 2018, 10:21 AM
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1. I know the meaning of words change over time. Not only that, the amount of definitions of words grow over time. And in many cases, people get to decide which versions they accept. And people SHOULD get to decide which versions they intend to use. The most important thing here is de-coupling this from the N***er vs cracker debate. Obviously the N word is more controversial. I am not interested in comparing two words as much as I am interested in thinking critically about the legitimacy of moralizing words. Everyone who works to take power out of words and transfer that power into context and intent is behaving in vastly superior fashion than those who attempt to inject or incubate power into words for the purpose of gaining the moral high ground.
2. It should be extremely obvious to anyone living in the United States that the reaction to "racial language" has been corrupted. It really does not matter intent and it definitely does not matter the context. Again, this does not just include the N-word. This is about a tennis analyst getting fired for talking about Serena Williams style of play as guerrilla style. This is about Colin Cowherd getting fired for saying the Dominican republic "Isn't known for its education." This is about a white person being called a racist for saying "all lives matter." This is about the thousands of examples of irrational behavior that represent the NORM, not the exception.
3. You can justify double-standards in specific cases all you want. The fact remains that doing so is counterproductive to progress in anything resembling racial harmony. It's simply a dead end. But that doesn't matter because using this dead end has enormous political utility. So it will continue.
4. Cherry picking is slang for carefully selecting the "best" examples or facts while ignoring or omitting the least desirable elements. In the context of historiography, cherry picking is taking certain historical facts to support a thesis, but ignoring others that disprove it.
Again, kudos to you for addressing the points.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Re: Words and their meanings evolve.
Jun 6, 2018, 8:23 PM
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1. I think this explains why we are still debating this issue. You are arguing from a much broader area for your thesis and I am not. I totally agree with you that the context the words are used in should not only be understood before any moral questions can be raised but moral questions of the right/wrongness of the words can only be addressed if the context permits it. And you seem to agree with me and the others that have explained that the N-Word has more inherit problems with its use than the word "cracker." I think we finally have found some common ground on this issue.
2. The use and power of "racial language" is a MUCH more complex issue and I agree with you to a degree on this point.
3. The double standard makes sense in the case of this word and it's just stating the reality of the two words power in society. I don't think it's anymore counterproductive than ignoring that fact.
4. What other historical facts about the N-word/Cracker are we ignoring to say we are cherry picking?
But I really would like to focus that in point one we actually found some common ground on these points and that's pretty rare on these boards 
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Re: Words and their meanings evolve.
Jun 7, 2018, 11:25 AM
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I think when reasonable people are being honest, logical, and circumspective, they usually find that scope, scale and semantics are the cause for the largest disagreements.
I am looking at the N-word vs Cracker debate as a segue to a larger topic that I believe is far more important. So in a way I am being "off-topic" from the OP. I will say that there is not an inherent moral difference between any two words (regardless of associated history), but there can definitely be a difference in intent. A black person could have the same intent using cracker to describe a white person (to insult their race as much as possible) as a white person has using the the n-word (to insult their race as much as possible) against a black person. The only real difference in that case is social perception. I am not the sort of person that allows something arbitrary like mass perception to impact my view of morality or fairness. However, for self-preservation and the pursuit of happiness, I know it better to avoid certain words, regardless of my beliefs.
I want to make it clear that I do not advocate the use of the N-word. The reason there is, despite my personal beliefs, I know how my use of the word will be interpreted, regardless of my intent. But I believe that everyone would be better off if that were not the case.
I do not believe any group of people is inherently superior/inferior to another based on race. However, the definition of racism has been dishonestly expanded for ulterior motives. The concept of racism is now clearly prized for its utility (power/leverage) more than it is considered for its moral elements. The N-word isn't the only element of this. It is part of it. Every topic that can be conceivably connected to race is thoroughly dominated, not by minorities, but by American blacks in particular. The double standard of words is but a small part of the larger, more counterproductive double standard that is very clearly in our faces.
That double standard is counterproductive.
4. What other historical facts about the N-word/Cracker are we ignoring to say we are cherry picking?
I did not argue that the cherry picking applied exclusively the comparative history of those two words. One example discussed a lot on the board was calling people Apes. The mass perception of people in this country seems to be that Ape is primarily a racial slur against black people. This is fundamentally untrue. History clearly demonstrates that there is no justification for such a view. The only way to conclude something like that is to either ignore or be unaware of lots and lots of history. This is one example of dozens. When it comes to the association of slavery and the historic relationship between black and white people, history is cherry picked. When it comes to associating the word slavery with black people, history is cherry picked. When it comes to associating certain races with enslaving others and colonizing others and invading others, history is cherry-picked. Lots more.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Re: Words and their meanings evolve.
Jun 8, 2018, 4:36 PM
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2nd paragraph: Words communicate many things. They communicate thoughts and ideas, emotions, information, direction, and even history. While words are just a collection of letters that correspond with sounds and thus have no inherent agency or value outside of what society gives them, that value is purposeful and is inherent to society. We can't ignore that function of language and words. It's why in law, the language used is so precise and dense.
I don't think it's arbitrary that words like the N-Word are treated differently than words like "cracker." I think it's history that informs those words and what they mean, same with "slave" and "monkey" as well. When used by a white person against a black person in America those words have an extra layer that words "cracker" or "honkey" don't. That layer is subjugation and dehumanization. There is a history of whites doing it to blacks, and not whites doing it to blacks in America. So, while I agree with you that the intent of both the N-Word and cracker is to insult their race as much as possible, only one has the history to back it up and it's that difference that is expressed when white people don't have the same reaction to being called "cracker" as a black person to being called "n-word." It's very far from arbitrary in my opinion.
Now, as I've argued before, I do think context matters and I don't agree that white people should NEVER be able to use the word as I think that is unfair and dumb. (For instance, much of this conversation, we should be able to write/say the word instead of using "N-word" because we are talking strictly about it in an academic sense)
4th paragraph: I agree and disagree. I think more things are being called out for racism today and some I agree, are more/less racist than others. I'm not sure I can agree that "every topic connected to race is thoroughly dominated by American blacks," I think that's too broad a brush and one I'm not sure is backed up by very much evidence in society.
Cherry picking: Who else is "ape" been applied to in American history? How is slavery between blacks and whites in America been cherry picked? The use of "slavery" with black people in America has been cherry picked? How so? I think, and I could be wrong, but I think you are trying to expand out the history of "slavery" outside of American history to be associated with a very narrow understanding of the word (slave) usage in America. (I base this on the previous point you made with slavic history and also the last sentence of the post I'm responding to here).
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: Words and their meanings evolve.
Jun 7, 2018, 11:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: Words and their meanings evolve. ] |
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"All lives matter" is said with racist intent. Calling people who say it racist isn't a big stretch. Your great logical mind should be able to connect A and B there.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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No it's not. "All lives matter." Just said it.
Jun 7, 2018, 11:32 AM
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No racist intent.
See how easy that was?
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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If a word used by someone else can strip you of your dignity
May 31, 2018, 2:29 PM
[ in reply to Why don't white people respond harshly to "cracker?" ] |
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you didn't have much to begin with.
"Black people for a long time were not able to respond to the use of the word, they just had to "take it" so your point about "refusing to participate" doesn't apply in this situation."
That makes zero sense.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Maybe I shouldn't have said, "all" but...
Jun 1, 2018, 8:30 PM
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your response makes little to no sense, or you are being purposefully obtuse.
Blacks were subjugated in America for generations. They held little to no power for generations. They were considered property. They were dehumanized. That is pretty common knowledge as I know you are aware. The N-Word is used to reflect that historical truth and so it's meant to dehumanize. Again, I know you understand this fact. So, I'm not sure what you're really arguing here.
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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And when someone calls you a '#####,' it is meant to
Jun 2, 2018, 10:22 AM
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emasculate you. Are you actually emasculated?
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Probably depends on the person and the context.***
Jun 2, 2018, 4:03 PM
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Context context context...
Jun 2, 2018, 11:39 PM
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it's like you think shouting 'CONTEXT!' excuses you from consistency.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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I'm being pretty clearly consistent and on topic
Jun 3, 2018, 12:49 AM
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and I'm clearly not shouting anything.
Interesting though, do you read everyone's response to you as if they are using all caps? Do you think everyone who responds to you is shouting to or at you?
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Consistent in calls for context
Jun 3, 2018, 11:37 AM
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so you can use that to excuse inconsistencies in standards and logic.
Sorry about the flowery use of 'shouting.' Didn't realize you were a literalist. Explains why you think it's so easy to be dehumanized.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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Instead of just repeating yourself...
Jun 3, 2018, 3:48 PM
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please point out the inconsistencies in the standards and logic used. I'm open to hearing them if you are open to pointing them out.
It wasn't the "flowery use of shouting," just the incorrect description of the tone in which it was used to describe part of my argument that confused me. That's why I asked, I'm sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52215]
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I've had some black people tell me...
May 29, 2018, 6:00 PM
[ in reply to what about blacks using the "N" word? ] |
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That it's their way of reclaiming the word from racist whites.
Don't know if that's the official stance but that's what I've been told.
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky
May 29, 2018, 5:11 PM
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Only white people can be racist....we know.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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The problem there is that people get hung up on the
May 29, 2018, 5:16 PM
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definition of the word "racist". The bottom line is that all people should be treated the same regardless of race.
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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There's only even an argument about the definition
May 30, 2018, 8:49 AM
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because social 'justice' leftists redefined the word 'racism' to excuse their own. A semantic rationalization that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a certain type of person to be racist or sexist is basically an admission that they are racist or sexist but have no desire to be held to their own standards.
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Legend [6858]
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Re: Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky
May 29, 2018, 7:04 PM
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You post as if you know Black folks but you don't. You are one of the
white people you post about. Do you deny that?
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All-Time Great [90076]
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I am white and used the N word around certain people
May 29, 2018, 7:10 PM
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until about the 7th grade. I became blood brothers with many blacks at this time mainly through sports.
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Campus Hero [13750]
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It’s ok to use the N word if you’re white
May 30, 2018, 9:34 AM
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As long as you identify as a black.
You heard it here first!
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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Re: Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky
May 29, 2018, 7:58 PM
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my favorite false equivalency is when conservatives have a conniption over BET, the NAACP, or Black History month, something to the tune of "blah blah blah, if there was a white entertainment channel, Jessie Jackson would be, blah blah..."totally forgetting that blacks being a minority in this country kind of makes it OK.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky
May 29, 2018, 8:04 PM
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Exactly. We don't have "White History Month" for precisely the same reason you've never seen a sign for a "non-handicap parking space."
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All-Time Great [90076]
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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If whites can hold out about 25 more years, when they
May 29, 2018, 8:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky ] |
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become a minority, then I suppose they can have White History Month, WET, NAAWP, and will happily be afforded all of the exceptions afforded a minority, I'm sure. That should bring about racial harmony at last.
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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Re: If whites can hold out about 25 more years, when they
May 29, 2018, 9:11 PM
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pretty disingenuous, don't you think? At no point in the next 100 years are blacks expected to outnumber whites 6-1.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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You are the one who used minority as the criteria.***
May 29, 2018, 9:13 PM
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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Re: You are the one who used minority as the criteria.***
May 29, 2018, 9:15 PM
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there's a difference between 49%, and 12%. And I understand why trump voters supporters feel threatened by this, but they shouldn't.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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Of course there is. So exactly where is the cutoff?
May 29, 2018, 9:27 PM
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12% 18%? 29%? 41% 48% Who gets to decide? Or, we could just set treating everybody fairly and respectfully regardless of race as the objective.
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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Re: Of course there is. So exactly where is the cutoff?
May 29, 2018, 9:31 PM
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IDK, maybe less than 25%? And do you think anyone of color would have a problem if there were a white entertainment channel under this scenerio?
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: Of course there is. So exactly where is the cutoff?
May 29, 2018, 9:35 PM
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They would make fun of it for sure.
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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Re: Of course there is. So exactly where is the cutoff?
May 29, 2018, 9:51 PM
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probably, mostly because the dancing would suck and there would be a lot of country music.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Valley Protector [1407]
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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smiling tiger is not a racist
May 29, 2018, 9:17 PM
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but, because in their minds, they are the real victims.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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Not true. I am certainly not a "victim", nor are "white
May 29, 2018, 10:02 PM
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people". That is not what it's about at all. At the risk of being painfully repetitive, for me, it's about treating everyone the same, with fairness and respect, regardless of race.
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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I agree, and
May 29, 2018, 10:09 PM
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I was not talking about you, just that I have met my fair share of racists that believe their freedom is being violated when ever there is a concession made that promotes racial equality. I can think of one poster that frequents the lounge who thinks white men are being repressed in this country.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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I know where you are coming from.
May 29, 2018, 10:43 PM
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I don't think my freedoms are being violated when concessions are made, and I'm not necessarily opposed to them, but I don't think they are the answer either. My fear is not that white men will be oppressed, but that we will be further splintered apart as a nation by not being able to honestly discuss the problem.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: I know where you are coming from.
May 29, 2018, 10:50 PM
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The only real problem any white people have is that ceding privilege feels an awful lot like oppression to them.
That's the whole deal. Roseanne used to be able to get away with being racist. We used to be able to tell racist jokes. Back in the good old days, blacks were too scared to speak up so they kept their moths shut and didn't make me reflect on my own prejudices.
It's nothing more complicated than that.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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You are flat out wrong.
May 29, 2018, 11:21 PM
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I am white, and ceding privelage has never crossed my mind. I don't even know that I am ceding any privelage at all, and don't care one whit about it, whatever it means. It has nothing (for me) to do with Roseanne. I've reflected A TON on my own prejudices, of which I've had plenty.
The historical oppression of blacks by whites in our country is a shameful blight on our history. The healing ONLY lies in observing and adhering to the principles which were violated that lead to the blight in the first place. Everything else is not only a silly, absurd sideshow, but only serves to divide us further. This is my overriding concern.
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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Re: You are flat out wrong.
May 29, 2018, 11:39 PM
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that may not be the case with your, but it very much is the case with a pretty sizable chunk of people in this country. I have seen it more so with the older generations. And it is not always just race, but socioeconomics.
A few months ago when I was waiting on a take out order, I had to listen to this guy rant about how his son's school was losing county funding and the money was going to N word school down the road, blah blah blah, he paid higher property taxes and his son deserved the better education.
It is hardly equitable that the quality of a person's education should be married to the amount of property tax their parents pay, but often that is the case. It certainly does little to help upward mobility or a level playing field in our education system, But I can assure you some people would scream bloody murder if the education funding were re-distributed equally across the state..
If we are going to treat people equally, this is a good place to start. But like I said, some people feel like they are being oppressed when concessions are made in the name of equality.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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He made a sweeping generalization about white people
May 30, 2018, 12:24 AM
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responding directly to my post, and I responded accordingly. His generalization did not apply to me, nor does it applay to the majority of white people I know. These kinds of generalizations and assumptions are part of the problem. As someone who attended a "poor" crappy high school, I would totally be in favor of tax money being distributed evenly to schools. Heck, maybe that's what held me back?
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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that he did, Cu17 seems new here
May 30, 2018, 12:50 AM
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agree with generalizations, people should make it a point to talk openly more and not run to their corners when they can not find common ground. I am guilty as he!! of this myself, but have faith that despite out political leanings, we all basically want the same things. Thanks for reminding me of that.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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same here.***
May 30, 2018, 12:56 AM
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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"Racist" used to be commonly understood to mean a
May 29, 2018, 9:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: If whites can hold out about 25 more years, when they ] |
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person who believed in the superiority of one race over others. Now it appears to mean any person who doesn't embrace a relatively recent leftist ideology regarding race. Apparently believing in the fair and equal treatment of all people regardless of race is no longer sufficient.
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: "Racist" used to be commonly understood to mean a
May 29, 2018, 9:48 PM
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Amen.
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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I saw that with my older brother when it came out in 68.
May 29, 2018, 10:09 PM
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I was 8 years old and thought it was the greatest movie I'd ever seen. Funny how those apes were so human-like! Then I saw Soylent Green 5 years later, and, well...greatest movie ever.
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TigerNet HOFer [125891]
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seen them all
May 29, 2018, 10:13 PM
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If my dad was not watching star trek, it was planet of the apes or a B grade sci fi movie. I think Logan's run takes the prize.
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Orange Immortal [65218]
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SmilingTiger and Tigerbalm1
May 30, 2018, 8:00 AM
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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Me and T-Balm didn't "just become" anything.
May 30, 2018, 8:29 AM
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It's been this way since Vietnam.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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So which one of you is the Veit Cong?***
May 31, 2018, 11:02 AM
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National Champion [7820]
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It has come to mean,
May 30, 2018, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to "Racist" used to be commonly understood to mean a ] |
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especially if you happen to be white, that if you don't agree with someone's beliefs who look different than you then you are a racist.. If you don't agree with beliefs of someone with a different sexual preference, sexist, or phobic.... The list goes on.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Whoever gave this a thumbs down is a tantrum-throwing coward
May 31, 2018, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to "Racist" used to be commonly understood to mean a ] |
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Much on this topic is debatable (like reparations, college admissions, etc) but Smiling Tiger's post is obviously correct.
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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LOL, when whites become the minority
May 30, 2018, 8:53 AM
[ in reply to If whites can hold out about 25 more years, when they ] |
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the genocide will begin in earnest. Luckily we will have at least a plurality for our lifetimes. See Zimbabwe or South Africa for examples of what happens when whites are a vast minority in majority black countries.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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This is arbitrary. You can't re-define words.
May 30, 2018, 11:18 AM
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You are not correct to say that calling a black person the N-word is equivalent to saying they are inferior. That is a retroactive reach in order to justify an obvious double-standard.
Calling someone an idiot means they are inferior. Calling someone an moron means they are inferior. Calling someone any racial slur can be interpreted as being called inferior.
As long as everyone keeps treating American blacks like special-needs children, the quality of their general situation will continue to lag behind everyone else. People are not really considered equal unless they are TREATED equally.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: This is arbitrary. You can't re-define words.
May 30, 2018, 12:26 PM
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This post is remarkable. You say you can't redefine words and then you spill all that diarrhea in an attempt to redefine the n word.
This place is out of this world.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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You seem to have an issue with critical thinking.
May 30, 2018, 1:37 PM
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How did I attempt to re-define that word? Where in my post do I attempt to change its definition? Its a slang holdover from negro (black) that is commonly used to insult or demean black people.
Thats not my definition. That was the established definition i learned about. The OP arbitrarily added specific context in order to justify a contemporary social controversy.
Think a little bit before responding. You keep skipping that step.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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Sometimes you need to look beyond what is neat
May 30, 2018, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to This is arbitrary. You can't re-define words. ] |
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and comfortable to see what is real. Some slave owners treated blacks like animals and in some instances this has carried forward to the present. Slaves hated these slave owners for the most part for treating them like animals.
There is no double standard because black and white racism is different and stems from different ideas about the other. It’s easy to say hate is hate and leave it at that because it’s easy to tie that in a neat little package that isn’t true.
You can say the same about English hate toward the Irish and vice-versa.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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Talk about tieing it into a neat little package!
May 30, 2018, 4:34 PM
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Joe, it is flat out wrong to hate another person because of the color of their skin. Period. Black people do not get a pass on this. All white people don't share the same history. Many white people (at least half) fought against slavery in the civil war. Many white people fought, and continue to fight, against bigotry and for equality. Most white people now have never done anything themselves to warrant the hate. The idea that having a particular skin color could somehow exempt one from this principle is not only ludicrous, it is downright dangerous, and it is, by definition, a double standard.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Your perspective is the neat and comfortable one. It's the
May 31, 2018, 10:41 AM
[ in reply to Sometimes you need to look beyond what is neat ] |
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one that is cozy with mainstream, politically correct opinion.
I'm not getting ideas from people who are trying to twist reality to suit their presentist perspectives.
Blacks are not the only group that's been enslaved. Fact
Blacks enslaved other blacks before Whites did. Fact
Every group is called racial slurs. Fact
Being black has been politicized with great effect as no other race votes 90% with a certain political party.
Insults or misunderstandings towards blacks are far more likely to be considered racist than any other group.
You are being carried by the current of social influence. There is no rational justification to treating one group of people better or more sensitively than others, based on the color of their skin.
Jews got over the Holocaust and are doing more than fine. Slavs got over Slavery (which was named after them) and are doing pretty well. The Irish have recovered. China is doing better after the Rape of Nanking, and the Opium Wars.
If you really care about others then you should hope for them to get over their problems, stop asking for special treatment and solve their own problems. Other than that, complete legal equality is something we should all demand.
Race isn't the only form of economic bias out there, yet blacks seem to corner the market on that. It's politics.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: Your perspective is the neat and comfortable one. It's the
May 31, 2018, 11:03 AM
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Wow this post smells of bigotry.
Your line that Jews got over the holocaust is disgusting. First, they certainly did not get over it. It's not anything that should ever be gotten over. Second, they do not scoff in the face of anti-Semitism, they fight it head on.
I'm sorry that minorities standing up for themselves hurts your precious white feelings so much.
And take your faux-intellectual shtick of telling everyone why they're so inferior to you and stuff it. You're no better than anyone here and you're near the bottom of the list of informed posters.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Re: Your perspective is the neat and comfortable one. It's the
May 31, 2018, 11:17 AM
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LOL stop speaking for Jews you racist nut. I love that you don't know my racial background and simply call me white (in an insulting fashion.)
Your posts are really bad. You frequently fail to understand the actual points being made. Your responses are often vague and emotional. You appear to be merely an individual iteration of group-think.
My only sense of satisfaction from reading your posts, since it looks so unlikely for you to actually comprehend much of what you read, (much less process and articulate a compatible response) is that I have bothered you so much.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: Your perspective is the neat and comfortable one. It's the
May 31, 2018, 11:23 AM
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Man, it's easy to tweak you. Do you get set off so easily in real life?
Your posts are tiring. No one thinks you're an intellectual. Your attempts to belittle everyone just make you look like a ######.
Your only defense is "that's not what I said." I don't know that I've ever seen you back up anything you say with anything else.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Re: Your perspective is the neat and comfortable one. It's the***
May 31, 2018, 11:39 AM
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: Your perspective is the neat and comfortable one. It's the***
May 31, 2018, 11:48 AM
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TD for not using the version with Bert in the back seat.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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I'm worried if I gave you any thumbs down you would get banned
May 31, 2018, 11:51 AM
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You have such a terrible reputation already, it would be insensitive to make it any worse. You are welcome.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: I'm worried if I gave you any thumbs down you would get banned
May 31, 2018, 12:02 PM
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I'm really not going to be happy until I'm below 30%.
I know every click makes Tigermanic's day a little brighter so thanks for leaving the honors to him.
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Gridiron Giant [15672]
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Re: I'm worried if I gave you any thumbs down you would get banned
May 31, 2018, 12:20 PM
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In fairness, i don't think maniac is the only one tding you. It looks to be several people.
I don't think one poster can td another poster but so many times per day.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Well it's not me. I only thumbs down in the Main Board.***
May 31, 2018, 12:25 PM
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Gridiron Giant [15672]
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Re: Well it's not me. I only thumbs down in the Main Board.***
May 31, 2018, 12:30 PM
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Same here. I think I've only gave one poster on this board a td.
I save mine for coots and fake Tiger handles ??
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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White Europeans were among the first to identify slavery
May 31, 2018, 2:38 PM
[ in reply to Your perspective is the neat and comfortable one. It's the ] |
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as morally wrong and eradicate it in their countries.
Meanwhile the leftists who want us to feel guilty seek to import as many as possible from a culture that still practices slavery to this day.
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Orange Immortal [67940]
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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All-Time Great [90076]
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LOLLERS. Are you against the study of history?***
May 31, 2018, 2:51 PM
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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I'm against using history to repeat a cycle of bigotry
May 31, 2018, 2:56 PM
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and infantilize people living today.
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Clemson Sports Icon [55167]
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Thank goodness I wasn't calling anyone "an moron."
May 31, 2018, 10:55 AM
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The irony would have been unbearable.
When one insults another, one must be careful with grammar.
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Orange Immortal [61702]
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Edgefield Honky...
May 30, 2018, 12:20 PM
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You just hate Rodney cuz he's white. lol.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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But love Fuller and Charlie.***
May 30, 2018, 1:16 PM
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Orange Immortal [61702]
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Re: Your Prejudice against
May 30, 2018, 4:37 PM
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Budweiser.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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The one that cracks me up and seems so odd...
May 31, 2018, 12:30 PM
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is the one now where Trump/Rosanne supporters think Bill Maher should be fired for comparing Trump to an orangutan. They think it is the same as Rosanne calling a person with black heritage an ape. They think there is a double standard.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Wait, why is it worse to call a black person an ape?
May 31, 2018, 12:37 PM
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See, in my head, calling any person an ape meant the same thing. Is there something I am missing? Humans have called humans apes since the beginning of human civilization. What makes apes apply in a different way to black people? Slavery?
I think treating people equally is the new racism.
(Note: I am delighted Trump was called an ape.)
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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You would have be laughably obtuse to not get the difference
May 31, 2018, 12:46 PM
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I will just let this one go. You are void of common sense quite possibly or just goofing around. You're very educated, but absolutely a dunce in the common sense department if you don't get the difference at this stage. I think you really know down deep though. It's pretty straightforward. I am not going to get in a long winded debate on this one. It would like arguing with a flat Earther. It's not worth the effort or energy.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Is this racist?
May 31, 2018, 1:00 PM
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Of course not. What does that have to do with race?***
May 31, 2018, 1:10 PM
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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What are you concealing? This is so odd.
May 31, 2018, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to You would have be laughably obtuse to not get the difference ] |
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It appears that you have an answer to my question, but for some reason refuse to share it.
I am completely unaware of anything about blacks that would make it more of an insult to refer to them as apes that isn't also true of whites or asians or anyone else. We all descend from them right? We all have people that are stupid. We all have people that look like them, or move like them, or anything else that could possible be compared to them. Stop being so weird and tell me why you think its different.
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: What are you concealing? This is so odd.
May 31, 2018, 1:32 PM
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I think it's because Darwin believed the missing link between apes and humans was african americans.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: What are you concealing? This is so odd.
May 31, 2018, 1:34 PM
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Are you dumb or is this the most racist post I've ever seen in here?
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All-Time Great [94328]
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You say this a lot.
May 31, 2018, 1:38 PM
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What is the most racist post you've ever seen in here?
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: You say this a lot.
May 31, 2018, 1:44 PM
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If jhop is saying blacks are the missing link, then that is.
Otherwise, probably a post a couple years ago referring to a kid who picked another school by racial slurs.
There have been plenty of racist posts since Roseanne went nuts. I'm not going to stop calling things what they are just to keep from hurting your feelings. After all, political correctness is bad, right?
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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You really must address your reading crisis.
May 31, 2018, 1:46 PM
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He said DARWIN claimed that. From what I can tell, the dude is not a believer in DARWIN. He used it as an opportunity to cause people who normally like Darwin to have second thoughts.
It was well-played, from his perspective, in my opinion.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: You really must address your reading crisis.
May 31, 2018, 3:23 PM
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And Darwin claimed no such thing, therefore it's easy to presume jhop was jokingly presenting his own idea.
You need to learn how language works.
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: You really must address your reading crisis.
May 31, 2018, 3:26 PM
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Actually he did and pretty much all evolutionary scientists of the day believed that the Western European races were more evolved and thus superior to the dark skinned races of Africa and the Middle East.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: You really must address your reading crisis.
May 31, 2018, 3:32 PM
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No, he didn't.
Have you read Descent of Man?
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Oculus Spirit [39260]
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: What are you concealing? This is so odd.
May 31, 2018, 1:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: What are you concealing? This is so odd. ] |
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I'm just stating the truth. Charles Darwin believed the white race was superior or more evolved than the "savage races" as he put it. Do some research pal....
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Campus Hero [13750]
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^^^2nd Most Racist Poast of All Time!***
May 31, 2018, 1:54 PM
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Concealing? Are you on drugs?
May 31, 2018, 1:50 PM
[ in reply to What are you concealing? This is so odd. ] |
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It's due to basic history that just about everyone knows about. I think your best bet is just to go down to North Charleston and just walk around asking black people if they mind you calling them apes, and if they do, explain to them that you don't see the problem. It should work out well.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Still won't answer. That's telling. Maybe we don't all think
May 31, 2018, 1:56 PM
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the same way about blacks. Maybe there is something you believe about blacks that I don't and that is the cause for the difference in our perceptions? I freely admit all my opinions. Anyone who doesn't is suspect.
What about their history suggests a special link with Apes? Because of the continent of Africa? That's not offensive enough to make you so scared to declare it.
So, I am left to think there is something that you perceive about blacks, in relation to apes, that not only to I not believe, but that has not even occurred to me. Seriously.
Plenty of other stereotypes do occur to me. LOTS of them. But not this one.
Jhop83 had a viable theory, though I'm not aware of its accuracy. Just throw something out there.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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I think you're just dumbing it down to the lowest level..
May 31, 2018, 2:06 PM
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Your post is borderline moronic. Black people were mostly compared to primates as a way to make them not equal, to be racist. They were and still are called various forms of primates as a way to make them not as good and not equal by racists. There is something called context that may go over your head. It's a way to hurt them and insult them. That's the only history you need to know and that's why there is an issue. It's about mass racism and their history. Your mind is getting you to once again and you don't get the simple things and over think the most of basic of issues. It's as simple of an issue as it gets.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Re: I think you're just dumbing it down to the lowest level..
May 31, 2018, 2:13 PM
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Why didn't you just say that earlier? Now I can finally engage your point.
Are you not aware that "Ape" has been used to insult individuals/groups of every race before during and since the African Slave Trade all over the world?
It's not a special African American thing. You can't canvass every single thing that was used to scientifically justify racism at any point in human history and then simply declare the it applies especially to one group.
That is parochialism. You seem to have gathered information in a narrow channel. You really need to learn some non-US history so you stop with this small window of knowledge.
Comparing people (yes races) to monkeys and apes happened in every continent on earth. Freaking white people in Europe (called barbarians) were judged as subhuman by greeks and Romans. India, China, Russia... Japan... EVERYWHERE.
Why is world history being appropriated by American blacks? It's ridiculous.
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: Still won't answer. That's telling. Maybe we don't all think
May 31, 2018, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to Still won't answer. That's telling. Maybe we don't all think ] |
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I was joking about Darwin although he did believe there were superior races. The monkey reference has been used toward blacks, see the movie Remember the Titans....But that doesn't mean every time someone says a certain black person looks like a monkey that it is a racial instult. Maybe they just look like a monkey? Plenty of white people people do. But in the eyes of certain people nowadays any time a black person is a victim of something it has to be because of the color of their skin.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: Still won't answer. That's telling. Maybe we don't all think
May 31, 2018, 3:28 PM
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Darwin did believe some races were more advanced. However, he didn't define race as skin color, but was rather talking in more tribal terms. He mentions different races of whites. And he mentions his own idea that there are more differences within members of races than between them.
However, a lot of his discussion of race uses the language of contemporary thinkers who were bigots. He repeatedly calls these people wrong. He also presents their ideas, but does not add to them. Where he mentions them, he is treating their ideas as a literature review, not as original research.
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Campus Hero [13750]
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No one WANTS to be called an ape
May 31, 2018, 1:57 PM
[ in reply to Concealing? Are you on drugs? ] |
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Furthermore- If the test would be decided by how offended they appear... let’s all agree this test isn’t necessary.
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Orange Elite [5222]
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Re: Concealing? Are you on drugs?
May 31, 2018, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Concealing? Are you on drugs? ] |
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I don't think anybody white or black, would prefer you calling them an ape. That's the point. Not that it hasn't been used as a racist insult, but that it doesn't have to be a racist insult. Rosanne may or may not have had racist intentions with her tweet but regardless it was an incredibly stupid thing to do.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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White people are not allowed to determine their own intentions.
May 31, 2018, 2:03 PM
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When it comes to anything that anyone may wish to declare as racism.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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If someone called me a monkey or an ape I would laugh..
May 31, 2018, 2:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Concealing? Are you on drugs? ] |
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You might as well call me a dog or a bird. There is no historical racist context to me nor my entire race being compared in a racist derogatory fashion to primates. It doesn't apply to my history. If you called me filthy money grubbing Jew it would have some context where it would bother me. If you called a black person who wasn't Jewish a filthy money grubbing Jew they would laugh. It wouldn't have any history or be relevant.
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All-Time Great [94328]
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Are you saying that Jews have a historical context of
May 31, 2018, 2:17 PM
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being filthy and money grubbing?
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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He certainly implied it. LOL Hilarious!***
May 31, 2018, 2:21 PM
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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No moron. You get dumber by the minute.
May 31, 2018, 2:27 PM
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I never implied it for a second. Gave an example of an insult that only racists use to apply strictly to Jews. Too many druga for you, bud. Your brain is mush.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Haha, Relax, I don't think you are racist.
May 31, 2018, 2:29 PM
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But it is exactly the type of statement that Twitter would get a hold of and declare you are racist, regardless of your intentions.
Open your eyes.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Most people in twiiter wouldnt think it was racist a bit.
May 31, 2018, 2:34 PM
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Only a moron like yourself would take that leap. I explained as Jew what I find racist and insulting to me as a Jew and i have heard many times said to Jews and about Jews. It wouldnt apply to black people's experience generally, unless they were of Jewish heritage. It applies to people of my heritage. Just like being called a primate isnt an experience of mine and gets black people angry. Get it now?
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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You are very very ignorant of what you are arguing about.
May 31, 2018, 7:46 PM
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Adolf Hitler, for example, wrote in Mein Kampf that Germans must dedicate marriage to the goal of “bring[ing] forth images of the Lord, not abominations that are part man and part ape.” It is not a stretch to link his use of the word “ape” here to Jews.
Caricatures of Jewish apelike creatures by filled the pages of Der Stürmer. Jews were depicted as slouched over with dangling arms and receding foreheads. The image still comes up in anti-Semitic cartoons in Arab countries today. In 2010, Egypt’s then president, Mohamed Morsi, called Jews the “descendants of apes.”
https://www.haaretz.com/life/television/.premium-planet-of-the-apes-a-movie-about-jews-1.5329825
You need to relax your aggressiveness because you are embarrassing yourself. You are calling me a moron, but I am aware of exponentially more historical facts on this topic than you are. You can't substitute knowledge for feeling. Slow yourself down.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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What a clown, an amusing one. You exemplify obtuse.*****
Jun 2, 2018, 10:31 AM
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Another worthless emotional statement.
Jun 3, 2018, 11:57 AM
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You have clearly hit a wall. What's the point of a post that doesn't engage the point?
You are no smarter than a parrot if all you do is ignore points and insult instead. Have higher standards for yourself.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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All-Time Great [94328]
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Moron? You are very big on the personal attacks lately
May 31, 2018, 2:27 PM
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I'm sorry that you relate the Jewish people as "money grubbing".
Racism is a terrible thing that you should try to correct.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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No moron. I relate to experiencing..
May 31, 2018, 2:39 PM
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Jewish being talked about or in that fashion. Just like black people relate to the primate insults.
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All-Time Great [94328]
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I see how original you are with you ad hominems.
May 31, 2018, 2:42 PM
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I suspect the cursing will begin shortly.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Okay...maybe I went a touch overboard....
May 31, 2018, 2:48 PM
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because you have proven yourself over the years to be far from a moron overall. That said, your repsonses are at times just either ignorant or insulting at the least. We all have our moments though.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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I think it comes down your brain being fried.*****
May 31, 2018, 2:28 PM
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Says the guy throwing a tantrum over the internet.***
May 31, 2018, 7:37 PM
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All-Time Great [90076]
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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You guys are so deep inside the box.
May 31, 2018, 2:17 PM
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Socially constructed assumptions dominate your thinking.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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I think youre projecting.
May 31, 2018, 2:36 PM
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Your brain is so fried you don't even get the basics.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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Sure and some socially constructed assumptions are
May 31, 2018, 2:37 PM
[ in reply to You guys are so deep inside the box. ] |
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true. Many of us grew up during segregation and have lived among blacks and whites, and seen blacks called every name in the book, and their reaction to it?
How old are you? You didn’t gain your views on this by living it I assume. You gained them by reading columns by authors whose thesis was to be contrary to these socially constructed assumptions.
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Valley Protector [1407]
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Re: You guys are so deep inside the box.
May 31, 2018, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to You guys are so deep inside the box. ] |
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Keep telling people what they think. Surely you'll convince them soon enough.
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Dynasty Maker [3434]
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Re: Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky
Jun 5, 2018, 11:28 AM
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I'm not going to jump into this shtshot, but how has this video not been posted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0
"Cracker" specifically addressed in the last 20 seconds
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Dynasty Maker [3434]
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Re: Whites using the "N" word vs. Blacks using cracker or honky
Jun 5, 2018, 11:28 AM
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I'm not going to jump into this shtshow, but how has this video not been posted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0
"Cracker" specifically addressed in the last 20 seconds
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All-Time Great [94328]
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Why is this thread still alive?***
Jun 6, 2018, 12:25 PM
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All-Time Great [90076]
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I know. Kind of embarrassing.***
Jun 6, 2018, 8:40 PM
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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Well go hide in the corner to cover your shame then.
Jun 7, 2018, 11:30 AM
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Anyone who feels embarrassed simply for discussing controversy isn't doing it right.
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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All-Time Great [94328]
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You never really stop, do you?
Jun 7, 2018, 1:30 PM
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Its not really "winning" if you just out talk the other guy.
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National Champion [7820]
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Clemson Icon [24727]
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So, now I count 3 people who want it gone but brought it
Jun 7, 2018, 11:58 AM
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back to the top.
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National Champion [7820]
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Fair point..
Jun 7, 2018, 12:59 PM
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####.. I did it again.
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All-Time Great [94328]
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So did he.
Jun 7, 2018, 1:31 PM
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He's simply obsessed with having the last word.
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All-Time Great [90076]
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Word***
Jun 7, 2018, 1:50 PM
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