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CU Medallion [58419]
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Racism ... two things ...
Sep 20, 2018, 11:45 AM
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First, give your definition of racist/racism. I'm not looking for the dictionary definition, which we all pretty much know or can look up ourselves, unless that's what it really means to you. I want to know what belief(s) you believe a person must hold to be considered a racist. I'm not looking for examples of racism, like "If a white cop shoots an unarmed black person, he's probably a racist". Just a simple definition, with clear criteria.
Secondly, what percentage of white Americans do you belive are racists, using your definition? Not looking for anything scientific; you don't have to point to studies or data or anything, just your opinion based on your experience and general impressions.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Racism ... two things ...
Sep 20, 2018, 11:51 AM
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A person who thinks less of a race due to the color of their skin. Also, a person who thinks less of an entire race due to the actions of some individuals.
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CU Medallion [58419]
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What about the second part of the question?***
Sep 20, 2018, 12:07 PM
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CU Medallion [54758]
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Carlsbad's reply is a concise, if not simplistic, definition
Sep 20, 2018, 12:27 PM
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Part B: I think it's ultimately less than what's 'portrayed' because (a) it seems to be getting very easy to toss the words 'racist' and 'racism' around as a catch-all for general dumbassery, or just disagreeing with someone/thing. (also, maybe 'simplistic'. Obviously, many legitimate instances are warranted, as well)...and (b) you hear about it a lot more than hearing about people simply 'not doing racisty things, or being a racist'
hard to put a number on "less than what's portrayed" tho, so i won't
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Carlsbad's reply is a concise, if not simplistic, definition
Sep 20, 2018, 2:18 PM
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I think there is a lot of situations out there still based on racism. I was accidentally racist when I went to Clemson. It wasn't that I had a bad heart, because I love all races, but I never knew any black people and all I knew about black people was from movies and sports. I had 1 black neighbor and he was Reggie Jackson and I rarely saw him. There were no black kids at my schools until I got to Clemson, aside from 1 black kid that came to my high school as an exchange student from the Virgin Islands.. I have a few good black friends now. I don't think being racist always means that someone hates anyone or doesn't like a race. It could be just based on lack of exposure and ignorance. Here is a perfect example....When that exchange student came to my high school he joined the basketball team. He never played and always rode the bench. I used to always think the basketball coach was a racist jerk for not playing him and letting him do his stuff on the court. He had to be able to dunk and pick it up quickly if he were given a chance? Right? Yeah I meant well, but I was a racist in hindsight. It comes in all forms. Found out later he went to UCLA on an academic full ride and he sucks at basketball. We all grow and see different things. Some of use get exposed to different things at different times.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Carlsbad's reply is a concise, if not simplistic, definition
Sep 20, 2018, 6:49 PM
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So you're saying in hindsight you were racist because you thought he would be a good athlete because he was black?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Carlsbad's reply is a concise, if not simplistic, definition
Sep 20, 2018, 6:57 PM
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Yeah in theory I think so. I stereotyped a black male due to my limited exposure. I was ignorant. Of course I was maybe 15 years old. I stereotyped black people all of the time until I was in my mid 20's and moved all over the country. I was underexposed. I think most of the time racism is based on ignorance.
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All-In [28802]
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I'd also add...
Sep 20, 2018, 12:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Racism ... two things ... ] |
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believing you know something meaningful about somebody entirely because of the color of their skin. It doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing (white people are slow and uncool), it can also be something positive (Asians are good at math and ping pong).
But all of this deals with individual racism, which doesn't really encompass most of what's in question these days. Instead, "critical" anti-racists have theorized that a power dynamic exists in our society such that blacks and other minorities are always affected by racism in some way or another, and that only white people (and especially white men) are not affected by racism and oppression. This power dynamic is so deeply ingrained that even social norms like being polite and race-blind free speech is allegedly implicated. So even if an individual white person isn't individually racist, these theorists argue that he is still privileged with advantages by the racist system (thus, almost anything he says or does regarding minorities is suspect); even if a black person is individually racist, he has been oppressed by the racist system and been deprived of the advantages a white person was given (thus, almost anything he says or does regarding race should be sacrosanct). So the white person has to atone for this racist stain by admitting his privilege and working to deprivilege himself and to emprivilege the black person.
I'd say some small percentage of white people are individually racists. Probably 95% of white people haven't sufficiently atoned for their systematic racial privilege (and my guess is very few black people actually believe the critical race theory version of racism).
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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Heisman Winner [111630]
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careful***
Sep 20, 2018, 11:57 AM
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CU Medallion [58419]
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Two very simple questions everyone on here should
Sep 20, 2018, 12:14 PM
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be able to answer very easily.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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can you be a fan and purveyor of "stereotype humor"
Sep 20, 2018, 12:04 PM
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and not be racist?
asking for a white frand.
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CU Medallion [58419]
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What are you talking about?***
Sep 20, 2018, 12:07 PM
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All-In [40344]
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Why did the Latin American take Xanax?
Sep 20, 2018, 12:15 PM
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for hispanic attacks.
his question is:
if reciting this or laughing at this makes any parties racists?
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CU Medallion [54758]
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kinda...while LOL, that's more of a convenient pun
Sep 20, 2018, 12:17 PM
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I think only the most irrationally offended among us would call that 'racist'
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CU Medallion [58419]
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It depends on the first part of my original question.
Sep 20, 2018, 12:18 PM
[ in reply to Why did the Latin American take Xanax? ] |
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And I specified that I was not looking for examples of what may or may not be racism for that reason (instead of a simple, working definition).
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CU Medallion [58419]
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It's easy to say "this or that is racist". I'm asking what
Sep 20, 2018, 12:20 PM
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would or would not make that joke racist.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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I don't think that joke's racist 'cause it plays of the word
Sep 20, 2018, 12:31 PM
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itself, and doesn't come close to implying anything about hispanic people individually or as a group.
What do you think?
I've always gotten a chuckle out of "What's brown and rhymes with snoop?"
Dr. Dre
At worst, it's descriptive / factual. At best, it's a corny pun...but I'm sure there's people that'd consider that racist
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CU Medallion [58419]
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I think that until we come up with a clear, simple
Sep 20, 2018, 3:56 PM
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definition for racism that is not subject to ever-changing trends, "racist" will continue be a term that can be used as a weapon in an attempt to silence or ridicule those who are not racists at all, but merely have a different socio-political perspective. I think that's exactly why it's so hard to get people to give a clear, simple definition here; they want to retain the ability to flail that axe around. And no , I don't think any of those jokes are "racist" at all.
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110%er [5854]
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Re: Racism ... two things ...
Sep 20, 2018, 12:13 PM
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Follow-up question, is it true that if you have one black friend, you aren't racist?
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CU Medallion [54758]
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yes, this is scientifically proven.***
Sep 20, 2018, 12:14 PM
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All-In [40344]
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my simple answer
Sep 20, 2018, 12:22 PM
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there's got to be a deep seeded hatred.
not that many
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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Well I stopped listening Gene Tracy & Wildman Steve
Sep 20, 2018, 12:34 PM
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comedy 8-tracks a while back so I’m getting there.
To answer question 1 if you judge a person based on appearance, accent, address, etc without knowing anything about them that some kind of “ist”
#2 - I have no idea. I’d be surprised but not shocked if there was anybody out there that didn’t have preexisting notions about some group. There are biological drives that promote homogeneity that the consciousness of humanity must overcome.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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Honestly, it's hard to define succinctly beyond the basis of
Sep 20, 2018, 1:09 PM
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having preconceived prejudices about individuals that are dependent on one's greater established opinion of a particular race. Racism must accept the concept of other, rather than self. What I consider racist will likely differ from what my black neighbor would consider racist. If I want to not be considered racist in his eyes, it is his interpretation I must use instead of mine. The same would apply to my words and actions if they were to be observed by my son. It's his developed opinion, not mine.
Racism is also relationally dependent. How well you know a person goes a long way towards forming an opinion about things they say and do. Which is why the multiple degrees of separation of the internet are problematic. Not having the benefit of knowing the other, our opinions of racism are largely dependent on self, where judgement of self is not the threshold of what is racist or not...which leads to the the Thass Racis meme kinda stuff. Everybody gets offended.
Hard to put in a box and tie a bow to it.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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offended is the new racism
Sep 20, 2018, 1:12 PM
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are you offended? then its racism
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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7
Sep 20, 2018, 2:12 PM
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is the answer to you second question
Racism is thinking that one race is better than the other because they are that race. Men are better than women at driving, but I think that is called something else.
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All-In [31514]
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Re: 7
Sep 21, 2018, 6:08 AM
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That’s called science
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All-In [42196]
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Re: Racism ... two things ...
Sep 20, 2018, 2:20 PM
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1. Well, I think we can define a racist system and a racist person separately. A racist system is one that has been constructed to discriminate, whether intentionally or unintentionally, against a group of people, usually a minority, based on their skin color, racial demographic, or ethnicity. An easy example is Apartheid.
A racist person is someone who either willingly contributes to this system to keep it intact, or a person who believes certain people are not equal, good enough, or the same level of humans as themselves. This latter part can be very subtle as a byproduct of the racist system, and perhaps even unrealized by the offender, or it could be that they genuinely know they hate people of a certain race and take no issue in whether or not people know about it.
2. Of the last group I described (the ones who are openly and admittedly racist), I think it's a very small percentage. I would even wager one percent or less. For the ones who are racist and don't fully grasp their actions/beliefs, I would put it more around 40 percent with most of them being older/elderly Americans who will gradually die off.
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CU Medallion [58419]
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Do you believe that a person who believes that all people,
Sep 20, 2018, 3:21 PM
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regardless of race/ethnicity, have the same basic inalienable rights; that we should not make judgements or assumptions based on race or ethnicity; and that no race is innately superior to another; do you think such a person could still be a racist merely by being part of a group that another group has deemed racist?
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All-In [42196]
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Re: Do you believe that a person who believes that all people,
Sep 20, 2018, 3:25 PM
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I guess that would depend on the group. What group are we referring to?
Like, if I'm a member of Bros Who Like Beer and Westerns, and I'm the person you just described, and then I find out one of our club's missions statements is to subjugate all Hispanics, but I still want to be a part of this group cause I like beer and they're showing Once Upon A Time in the West next week, I mean... yeah?
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CU Medallion [58419]
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Great point - I should qualify that as being a member of
Sep 20, 2018, 3:57 PM
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a group that one is not a member of by choice.
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All-In [42196]
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Then I would posit no.***
Sep 20, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Freshman [2]
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Re: Do you believe that a person who believes that all people,
Sep 20, 2018, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Do you believe that a person who believes that all people, ] |
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Absolutely not.
For one thing, your scenario says the person in question is a member of some group that "some other group has deemed racist" and as mentioned by others above the individual persons definition of "racist" can be all over the place.
For another, simply being a member of a group that is deemed "racist" by someone else does not, in and of itself, make anyone "racist". There might be obvious exceptions where the ascribed group is entirely based on "racist" principles, but there again that "racist" flag is determined by whose definition?
To answer your original questions:
[1] 'Racist', to me, is when one person believes any one race is categorically inferior to another race. I believe that racism is intentional--not 'accidental' as someone described above.
[2] Probably a very small percentage but I wouldn't be able to hazard an actual number.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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^^^first poast
Sep 20, 2018, 4:09 PM
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CU Medallion [58419]
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Agreed, and I think it's that simple. I think a lot of
Sep 20, 2018, 4:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Do you believe that a person who believes that all people, ] |
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people complicate it and come up with complex, convoluted definitions in an effort to make sure they are keeping with current partisan political dogma.
And as far as how many white people are racist, I do know a few, but I know a lot of white people, rich, poor, blue collar, white collar, middle school drop-outs to college professors and folks with 3+ post-grad degrees. In the whole bunch, I'd be hard pressed to need two hands to count the ones that don't believe that no race is innately superior to another, and all people, regardless of race/ethnicity, have the same exact inalienable rights, and should be treated with the same dignity and respect regardless of skin color. I would put the percentage of white people that are racists at less than 5%. If it's more than that, they are extremely quiet and well hidden.
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All-In [28802]
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The category that's the problem...
Sep 20, 2018, 5:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Racism ... two things ... ] |
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is people who willingly contribute to/at least go along with a system that is (allegedly) unintentionally "constructed to discriminate." Who decides whether something was intentional? Who decides whether a system was "constructed to discriminate" when the alleged discrimination was unintentional? Divining this kind of thing is the specialty of critical race theorists and people who claim to detect racism in nearly everything.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: The category that's the problem...
Sep 20, 2018, 5:51 PM
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Well, it definitely is tricky. We've obviously had some pretty blatant ones, like slavery and Jim Crow here. Or Apartheid in S. Africa. Other systems in America could be unintentional byproducts of the previous systems, and even to the point where the people operating these systems years and years from when they were set up are clueless to realize that the systems still discriminate.
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CU Medallion [58419]
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Can there be racial discrimination that is not the result
Sep 20, 2018, 6:58 PM
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of or driven by racism?
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Racism ... two things ...
Sep 20, 2018, 8:39 PM
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A general suspicion toward a certain race and/or a general preference toward another.
More than half.
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CU Medallion [58419]
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Can you give examples of "general suspicion" and
Sep 20, 2018, 9:07 PM
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"general preference" that you have encountered in more than half of white people?
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Can you give examples of "general suspicion" and
Sep 20, 2018, 9:59 PM
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You expect that I've had the exact same experience with more than half of white people, or you want me to list enough experiences that they constitute half the white people I've ever met?
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CU Medallion [58419]
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I want you to give examples of what you mean by
Sep 20, 2018, 11:54 PM
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"general suspicion" and "general preference for" which led you to the conclusion that about half of all white people are racists, based on your experience and general impressions.
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