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Replies: 85
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All-In [30593]
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Which of the following statements do you disagree with, and
Nov 20, 2014, 10:52 AM
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why?
1. Dabo has done a fantastic job of beating teams we are supposed to beat.
2. Clemson out-talents 80% of our schedule.
3. With the way Clemson recruits, and with our recent success (10 win seasons), it would be fair to compare Clemson to UGA, LSU, AU, and SCU... meaning we should be expected to accomplish similar things.
4. Even with injuries, we are talented enough, both on the field on on the headsets, to put up more than 13 pts. per game vs. Cuse, BC, and GT.
5. Over the last 5 years, Clemson has struggled in games where talent is more equal, and coaching is at a premium.
6. Because Dabo has conquered the demon of beating teams we should, the expectation should be to begin winning more games where talent is comparable.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Which of the following statements do you disagree with, and
Nov 20, 2014, 10:58 AM
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#3 because we have yet to be in the national title discussion at the end of the year(uga, lsu, au have) and we haven't beaten usuc in 5 tries.
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All-In [30593]
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comparison meaning that we should expect the
Nov 20, 2014, 11:01 AM
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same type results... I think we're on the same page here.
Message was edited by: york_tiger®
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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We should definitely expect comparable results....however,
Nov 20, 2014, 11:03 AM
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we have not been on their level.
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All-In [30593]
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I agree and that's my point...
Nov 20, 2014, 11:07 AM
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If we win some if those games we are on their level
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Agreed my friend.***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:09 AM
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Orange Blooded [3311]
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Re: Which of the following statements do you disagree with, and
Nov 20, 2014, 10:59 AM
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#2.
I think we out-talent 100% of our schedule top to bottom, all counts taken, fully-healthy...
Other than that, every statement 100% correct IMHO
HTH that helps that helps.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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York, what if I agree with all the statements?
Nov 20, 2014, 11:01 AM
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Should I FHRITP??
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Legend [16629]
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Is it safe to endorse this post?
Nov 20, 2014, 11:03 AM
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#### it.
I endorse this post.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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In order to endorse a post, one must
Nov 20, 2014, 11:03 AM
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post a gif or a meme.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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*juan***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:04 AM
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Which of the following statements do you disagree with, and
Nov 20, 2014, 11:05 AM
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1. Dabo has done a fantastic job of beating teams we are supposed to beat.
Slightly diagree - I'd say a Good Job - We should have beaten GT, we should have beaten a couple or 3 of those SC teams.
2. Clemson out-talents 80% of our schedule.
Agreed.
3. With the way Clemson recruits, and with our recent success (10 win seasons), it would be fair to compare Clemson to UGA, LSU, AU, and SCU... meaning we should be expected to accomplish similar things.
Agreed.
4. Even with injuries, we are talented enough, both on the field and on the headsets, to put up more than 13 pts. per game vs. Cuse, BC, and GT.
Agreed.
5. Over the last 5 years, Clemson has struggled in games where talent is more equal, and coaching is at a premium.
Agreed.
6. Because Dabo has conquered the demon of beating teams we should, the expectation should be to begin winning more games where talent is comparable.
Agreed.
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All-In [30593]
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I agree... I think we are talented enough to beat GT
Nov 20, 2014, 11:10 AM
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I don't care who's behind center
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: I agree... I think we are talented enough to beat GT
Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 AM
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You think we are talented enough to beat a ranked team on the road with one of the worst QBs I've ever seen play on the D1 level? What about the team that you have seen play this year would make you say that?
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All-In [30593]
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yes***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:20 AM
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: yes***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:27 AM
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Well we would disagree. In your opinion, since we have been leaning on talent in the past with Morris teams and players that also choked away a game in Atlanta, why can't/aren't we leaning on that talent all the way to victory now?
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All-In [30593]
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I don't understand your question***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:28 AM
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: I don't understand your question***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:30 AM
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If talent alone fueled the victories before why aren't they fueling them now?
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All-In [30593]
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besides GT, who have we lost to that we out talent?***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:33 AM
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: besides GT, who have we lost to that we out talent?***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:41 AM
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Maybe SC last year. Isn't that a good thing.
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All-In [30593]
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Did you read the OP? I said it was fantastic
Nov 20, 2014, 11:43 AM
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SCU was an 11 win team last year... comparable talent
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I don't understand your question***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't understand your question*** ] |
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You're not making any sense. He's saying that we certainly have the talent, even with Stoudt at QB, to beat GT. It's on the coach's to make sure the players are prepared and execute. Every time they don't the coach apologists throw the players under the bus. Been going on for years. At which point does execution begin to fall on the coach's responsibility?
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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2, 3 and 5.
Nov 20, 2014, 11:09 AM
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2) When your quarterback is bad and turnover prone, it doesn't matter what kind of talent you have around him.
3) We have not recruited as well as those teams over the last 5 years, in my opinion. I don't put a ton of stock into the recruiting rankings like some do as they do not consider team needs.
5) We have won some and lost some, just as you would expect any coach or team would when playing top teams.
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All-In [30593]
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I'm not sure id agree there...
Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 AM
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We are talented, but there is no reason that, when a true frosh who didn't even win the job in fall camp, goes down that our offense should stall like it does. IMO, that goes back to coaching being a premium.
I would argue we have recruited just as well. Look at who we've had and where they are now.
We are 4-14 against 10 win teams since 2009. IMO, that's the best way to evaluate, and the other schools I mentioned are much better under the same criteria.
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CU Medallion [58419]
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Yep.***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:19 AM
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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All-In [30593]
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I don't think he could have done much in game...
Nov 20, 2014, 11:23 AM
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That's my point.
I don't understand why our run game is so dependent on a true frosh QB that didn't win the job. I don't get it. It's year 4, and we have no way to take pressure off a guy that's a 5th year senior.
I could go on about this... but I am a Morris fan.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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That's my point. You can't argue that we have recruited
Nov 20, 2014, 11:36 AM
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on par with the teams you mention and then point out we don't have the talent on the offensive line and at running back to be an effective running team.
Attrition at running back and offensive line has created a talent deficit at those positions. The injury to Dye right after signing day this past winter was a big one which didn't allow us to recruit another and then we lost or next best before the season and then our next best against BC. We are addressing it with one of the best offensive line recruiting classes in our history and we should have a healthy Zac Brooks, Tyshone Dye and Adam Choice next year.
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All-In [30593]
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that doesn't make sense
Nov 20, 2014, 11:45 AM
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I'll give you Dye, but we have out recruited GT, and it's not even close. We lost that game , b/c within our scheme, we had no way to take pressure off CS
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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It makes perfect sense. You must have a quarterback
Nov 20, 2014, 11:59 AM
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that can make a play. We don't, which negates a talent advantage at wide out. That's attrition/recruiting. We don't have a great offensive line or running back to take the pressure off CS with a good running game. That's attrition/recruiting. What is this option you speak of to take pressure off of CS? It doesn't exist. That's because of attrition/recruiting.
Now refer to your bullet points that suggest we have recruited well enough.
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Orange Blooded [3245]
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Re: that doesn't make sense
Nov 20, 2014, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to that doesn't make sense ] |
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What do you mean "no way to take pressure off CS"
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All-In [30593]
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being able to run the ball***
Nov 20, 2014, 1:49 PM
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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The run game is dependent on a deep threat in the passing
Nov 20, 2014, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to I don't think he could have done much in game... ] |
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game to keep the safeties deep.
With Cole that deep threat is not there.
But if we are comparing ourselves to LSU, Uga, Usuc, and AU. Do we take into account those teams' down years, too? Or just the better years?
IN 2012 AU was 3-9. They've lost 3 this year, and got dumptrucked in Athens worse than we did.
THis year Usuc has 5 losses, are they more talented than Mizzou, Tenn, or Kentucky?
LSU has 4 and just got shutout at Ark. Do they have more talent than Ark, and more offensive talent than should get shut out?
Uga was really talented last year, until everyone got injured. But there are no excuses, right? They should be just as good with 3rd string skill players as with the starters, right?
Ya'll got to realize shyte happens, esp when you're dealing with yunksters.
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All-In [30593]
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I want to address, but I gotta run
Nov 20, 2014, 11:58 AM
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lets do it later
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All-In [30593]
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Legend [16629]
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Are you at all concerned
Nov 20, 2014, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to What could Morris have done differently to beat Ga Tech?*** ] |
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that Chad had over a month without DW to develop something that even remotely resembled an offense, but it didn't happen?
Also, if you are suggesting that the offensive success hinges 100% on one person (DW), isn't that also something worthy of extreme concern?
Curious to hear your thoughts.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Our offensive problems are a result of attrition and
Nov 20, 2014, 11:53 AM
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recruiting. I am disappointed we don't have a good running game. However, we are well on our way to solving that problem with the current recruiting class and the return of injured players next year.
Keep in mind the bullet points in the original post.
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All-In [30593]
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I gotta run for a bit Chuckston
Nov 20, 2014, 11:56 AM
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good talk
Let's finish it later
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Chicken!
Nov 20, 2014, 12:00 PM
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Bock! Bock! Bock!
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Legend [16629]
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I'm aware of the bullet points, and I agree
Nov 20, 2014, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to Our offensive problems are a result of attrition and ] |
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with some of what you are saying. However, I don't think it's unreasonable for Chad to have developed something resembling an offense in the absence of DW. I agree that a power run game would absolutely help though.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Not unreasonable and I agree, but the original post said we
Nov 20, 2014, 12:20 PM
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had recruited well enough. I disagree with that. The reason we lack an offense is a reflection of attrition and the inability to recruit well enough to fill those holes. Even with those holes, we would be a very good team if we just had an average backup quarterback. No matter how good the rest of the team is, you must have a quarterback that can execute basic functions of the position or you will struggle against anybody and everybody.
You can fault the coaches for not recruiting well enough at those position groups, but we have had some extreme situations regarding injuries that would make it hard on anybody to proactively avoid. (I also think our struggles at quarterback and running back have made our offensive line look worse than they are.)
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Legend [16629]
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Gotcha.
Nov 20, 2014, 1:20 PM
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Thanks for the civil discussion!
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All-In [30593]
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I do agree with that... but I think it speaks to my larger
Nov 20, 2014, 12:32 PM
[ in reply to Our offensive problems are a result of attrition and ] |
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point
Morris says we are a "smash mouth " spread that wants to run, but we can't get elite RBs. Dye is the closest. People will throw stars and rankings at me... but Gallman was also recruited as a db and Choice played QB in HS. Oglesby is currently playing WR in prep school, and even Brooks was listed as both RB/WR .
There's a reason we can't get the Gurley's, etc... and I think it's b/c scheme wise, Chad has tweaked his system to play in space a lot more than he did at Tulsa, and much more than Gus does.
TB was our short yardage back, and now DW is our run game.... so I think that makes it hard to get elite RBs.
The guys we have are good, but I don't buy the OL is the only reason we can't run it.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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I don't buy the offensive line issues either. I would agree
Nov 20, 2014, 12:49 PM
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that we don't really have a great running back on the team that we know of and I think it would make a huge difference, just like Dalvin Cook does versus Karlos Williams for FSU - even with all of those NFL players on their offensive line.
But, I don't agree that it is a scheme problem. TB was our short yardage back because we didn't have one and he was good at it. Just like Cam Newton was when they won the national championship. Even with the number one high school running back in the nation on the team 5-9 215lb Micheal Dyer. Dyer finished with just over 1,000 yards rushing, while Cam had 264 rushes for 1473 yards and 20 touchdowns rushing.
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All-In [30593]
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I've always been a Morris fan, but my issue with scheme is
Nov 20, 2014, 1:15 PM
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for a couple of reasons.
I don't think we recruit guys at TE to do what Morris "says" he wants. Our TEs are guys that give people matchup problems out side, not guys who are gonna seal the edge or blow up a LB from the H back spot. I think that's where Chad has tweaked things away from what Gus does.
We have to teach those guys how to play on the line, rather than bringing in guys who are true run blockers, and teaching them to split out occosaionslly.
Good talk.... the way it should be done
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: I do agree with that... but I think it speaks to my larger
Nov 20, 2014, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to I do agree with that... but I think it speaks to my larger ] |
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also it is difficult to get o linemen that want to play in this system. it also takes a certain type o lineman in that you pass block so much more and run a play every 15-20 seconds with no huddle. fat guys have trouble getting into shape and want to run block mano e mano in down hill style. to run this system you need a lot of linemen to be able to sub often and a taller rangier more athletic lineman to pull, trap and pass block.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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2009 is the year after we fired our coach. No way we
Nov 20, 2014, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to I'm not sure id agree there... ] |
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had anywhere near the recruiting success on campus to compete with those programs. Our talent has improved and gotten more experience since 2009, but unless you are a traditional power in a state full of talent, you can't turn it around that quickly.
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All-In [30593]
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that's a straw mans argument..
Nov 20, 2014, 11:32 AM
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1-6 vs FSU and SCU since since beginning of 2011. If UGA wins 10 this year, that would be 4-8 vs 10 win teams, and that includes the bowl wins.
That's 1-7 in regular season vs 10 win teams, including our ACC championship year. Regular season is a playoff, and coaching is a premium.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Is this a list?***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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I've seen a lot of those the last few days.***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Does that mean it's safe to come out of the foxholes?***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:16 AM
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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I'm treading light today....got a tmale last night about my
Nov 20, 2014, 11:17 AM
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behavior.
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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I'm intrigued, go on....***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 AM
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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I already broke the 1st rule of tmales....
Nov 20, 2014, 11:28 AM
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I better stop while I'm ahead.
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Legend [16629]
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Hey go easy on him spiller, it took him a couple hours
Jan 13, 2022, 7:21 AM
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to really get awake this morning
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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I've been going skrong since 430, gotta get that early gym
Nov 20, 2014, 11:26 AM
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session in.
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Legend [16629]
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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"If you like your list, you can KEEP your list"
Nov 20, 2014, 11:17 AM
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Doesn't he know that crump is always watching?
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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CU Medallion [58419]
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I agree 100% with all of that.***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 AM
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Orange Blooded [2609]
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actually you can remove scar from #3 theyve accomplished
Nov 20, 2014, 11:30 AM
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NOTHING. The other 3 we have beaten the last few years and accomplished more.
#1- good not fantastic (reference scar)
#2- agree
#3 see above
#4- agree
#5- disagree
#6- agree
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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usuc can be removed? they've beaten us 5 times in a row
Nov 20, 2014, 11:34 AM
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and finished ranked higher than us in the polls....
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All-In [30593]
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I believe their record vs. 10 win teams is
Nov 20, 2014, 11:35 AM
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something like. 8-9 as well
not 4-14
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Yep, but head to head alone squashes what he said....
Nov 20, 2014, 11:38 AM
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"The other 3 we have beaten the last few years and accomplished more."
that's laughable especially considering AU played for the NC last year.
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All-In [30593]
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we beat a 3-9 and 8-5 AU team
Nov 20, 2014, 11:42 AM
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either we tout our 10 wins or we don't. That's the only way to measure it, IMO ... results.
Giving AU one of their 9 losses is not a feather in the cap of "elite"
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Exactly.***
Nov 20, 2014, 11:47 AM
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To be the best you've got to beat the best and we haven't done that with any kind of consistency.
Message was edited by: Anonymous08®
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All-In [30593]
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Legend [17294]
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This question is way to hard to answer while I'm working ...
Nov 20, 2014, 11:47 AM
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Stop being so inconsiderate.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Let's look at Aub, LSU, Usuc, and Uga
Nov 20, 2014, 12:00 PM
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and really compare accomplishments and records for the last 5 years.
We compare very favorably. We just haven't had the one big season where it all falls your way. Ofcourse, neither has Uga or Usuc. LSU had 2011 but got screwed by having to play Bama again, imo. Aub has But it's not like they got some lucky breaks or anything.
We all want to blame the OL, and they deserve more than most other position groups. But they haven't had the same 5 playing all year. That matters a lot on the OL.
Uga fell apart when the lost all their skill players last yr. And shyte the bed in Jax this yr.
LSU can't throw it in the ocean from the beach this yr.
Usuc can't stop molassas from running uphill.
Aub can't either, and they aren't getting lucky anymore.
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All-In [30593]
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so you do or not agree
Nov 20, 2014, 12:21 PM
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I don't understand
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: so you do or not agree
Nov 20, 2014, 12:25 PM
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"Let's look at Aub, LSU, Usuc, and Uga and really compare accomplishments and records for the last 5 years"
I was expecting some good ol stats but none were to be had.
He's rambling let him go.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Alright, here it is.
Nov 20, 2014, 1:12 PM
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including 2010 to now, here are the records:
Clemson 45-18 1 losing season (6-7 IN 2010)
Georgia 44-19 1-1 vs Clemson 1 losing season (6-7 in 2011)
LSU 51-13 0-1 vs Clemson No losing season
Auburn 44-19 1-2 vs Clemson 1 losing season (3-9 in 2012)
So Car 47-16 5-0 vs Clemson None yet, but this yr is possible.
Comparable results?
we have not had the run in one big season, and we've shyte the bed vs the coots.
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All-In [30593]
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Exactly... very comparable....EXCEPT for the fact that
Nov 20, 2014, 1:17 PM
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out record in games where talent is comparable isn't really close to those guys .
that's the point
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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So, you're just upset that we're boring b/c we beat whom
Nov 20, 2014, 1:37 PM
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we should and often lose when we are expected to.
You miss the roller coaster ride of losing at Wake and beating FSU, or winning at Miami and losing to Duke.
Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
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All-In [30593]
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what ?
Nov 20, 2014, 1:39 PM
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what do you mean
we need to start winning games where talent is comparable, period
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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If the net results are the same, what's the difference how
Nov 20, 2014, 1:52 PM
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you get there?
The big wins don't count as much if you don't take care of business against the scrubs and also-rans.
When we put the two together and beat the scrubs AND the handful of good teams on our schedule, then we're talking NC possibilities. maybe 2015, but especially 2016 looks a like a good possibility if Deshaun gets/stays healthy. In 2016 one of the highly ranked QB recruits coming this Spring should be able to make us less dependent on DW.
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All-In [30593]
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that's a terrible argument
Nov 20, 2014, 1:55 PM
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we beat SCU and FSU a couple of times and things change drastically
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Ya Think?***
Nov 20, 2014, 3:32 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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Could you just get to the point?
Nov 20, 2014, 1:00 PM
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Stop beating around the bush, I'm getting kinda sore down there.
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Orange Blooded [1051]
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Re: Which of the following statements do you disagree with, and
Nov 20, 2014, 1:26 PM
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all of the mentioned.
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Enthusiast [108]
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Oh, look, coot_tiger has shown up...***
Nov 20, 2014, 1:57 PM
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Re: Oh, look, coot_tiger has shown up...***
Nov 20, 2014, 4:24 PM
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And yet again, absolutely nothing of substance.
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CU Guru [1127]
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Re: Which of the following statements do you disagree with, and
Nov 20, 2014, 3:49 PM
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Honestly I do it too but I don't want to compare anything to other teams. My expectation from here going forward, with an experienced QB, young but talented OL with some veterans, elite WRs, pretty good backs, great front 7 on D though lacking in depth at DT, and a very good secondary is to win every game and make it to the playoff. Our big games next year will be Notre Dame, FSU, and SC. 2 of those are at home and 1 is in the roach. We can win all of those. I don't see why we won't be favored in most of our games depending on how we are playing (eye test). We are poised to take the next step barring any extreme coaching changes. We should be a contender next year. We have approached 10 wins in a year where we have lost a lot of talent and sustained double digit injuries to starters/contributors. So with a top 5 recruiting class and the talent we bring back overall we should definitely have a chance. All losses are now to be viewed as that a loss. We need to start trying to win them all. You probably won't do it every year but I expect Clemson to be able to reach a Bama, Oklahoma, LSU, FSU dynasty type level. I also mean every word of what I have just said. WHY NOT US???
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CU Guru [1950]
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Recruiting rankings 2009-2014
Nov 20, 2014, 4:21 PM
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Rivals:
Clemson: 37, 19, 8, 14, 14, 13 Avg: 17.5
Georgia: 6, 15, 5, 12, 12, 7 Avg: 9.5
LSU: 2, 6, 6, 18, 6, 2 Avg: 6.7
Auburn: 19, 4, 7, 10, 8, 9 Avg: 9.5
South Carolina: 12, 24, 18, 19, 16, 16 Avg: 17.5
Rankings 2012-2014 (Final USA Today 13+14; Sagarin when out of 25, CFB Playoff 2014):
Clemson: 9, 7, 22
Georgia: 4, NR, 10
LSU: 12, 14, NR
Auburn: NR, 2, 14
South Carolina: 7, 4, NR
Clemson's tied with South Carolina for the "least talent" among the five schools, and I think an agrument can easily be made that Clemson and South Carolina's talent is a step below the other three schools. Clemson should be better in the future as the talent continues to rise. The first 2 classes were not on par with what LSU, Auburn, and Georgia were achieving.
As for accomplishments, over the past 3 years all of the schools seem about even...good seasons and average seasons. None of the 3 schools have been at all dominant over the 3-year period. Auburn could have very easily been a 3-loss regular season team last year.
As far as coaching, Spurrier's one of the best. He has been overachieving at South Carolina, no question and is the best coach of the group. I think Dabo and company are on par with the other 4 coaches on the list above.
As far as #4....We run a system that is heavily reliant on the QB to operate. Is Stoudt good enough to lead the offense to more than 13 points against those teams? In this system, the answer is sadly no. Is that a reason to question the system though, when we know it operates well with the right QB? I'd say you just need to recruit more QBs that can run the system.
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All-In [30593]
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Good dig... great find and post
Nov 20, 2014, 4:26 PM
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I kinda have a hard time using recruiting rankings to establish "comparable "... especially when we have records for those seasons and overall records.
IMO. That's the only way to really compare subjectively
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