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110%er [6611]
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I have 2 Scenarios Why Clemson Is Not Going to the Big 12
Jun 14, 2012, 10:50 AM
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First, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed with the Clemson fans that are frankly pouting and threatening to boycott Clemson or quit contributing to IPTAY, buy tickets, etc because you are making decisions and assumptions on issues that are extremely fluid and that none of us really know a lot about. Could you at least go through the formality of waiting to see how this plays out before you have your tantrum?
Anyway, has it occurred to anyone that the reason Clemson is not considering the Big 12 is that they may have a better deal in the works? Here are 2 thing that would make Clemson not go to the Big 12:
1.Notre Dame is coming to the ACC with another school. If this happens and they get another good program like Louisville, then a 16 team ACC is better than a 12 team Big 12. We will make plenty of money from Notre Dame mega media appeal and our geographical footprint remains intact for both the fans and the recruiting. Football will be huge, but Basketball won't be too shabby either.
2. We are negotiating with the SEC. I would think even the biggest dissenter would much rather go to the SEC than the Big 12. As the league gets bigger, that "Gentleman's Agreement" gets harder to hold together. The SEC may add 2 more teams with the new BCS contract and this could still happen.
We have got to trust the BOT and Barker, TDP and whoever else is involved with this to make the decisions that will be best for Clemson.
If after the dust settles and we didn't get the best situation is when the revolt should occur. Let's just be patient and see how this plays out.
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All-American [551]
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Re: I have 2 Scenarios Why Clemson Is Not Going to the Big 12
Jun 14, 2012, 10:53 AM
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#1. ND can't join a conference in football till their NBC contract is up in 2015
#2. SEC doesn't need or want another school in SC....they need a NC school and/or a VA school
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110%er [6611]
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So You Say......
Jun 14, 2012, 10:57 AM
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1. The ACC would bend over backwards to accommodate ND and their NBC deal.
2. The SEC is going to expand to 16.....Just who? I am not convinced Clemson is out. You are...only time will tell
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All-American [551]
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Re: So You Say......
Jun 14, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Where is the ACC gonna come up with the money to buy out that NBC contract?....
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110%er [6611]
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Here is a thought....
Jun 14, 2012, 11:05 AM
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The ACC brings in ND for all sports except football until the NBC TV deal expires..Football can join after that period and perhaps require ND to play say 6 ACC games during that period since they are Independent.
You can look for a way to make this work or a way to not make this work
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All-American [551]
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Re: Here is a thought....
Jun 14, 2012, 11:06 AM
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u stole that from what Texas offered ND to join BIG XII
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110%er [6611]
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Yes...I did....It was still a darn good Idea***
Jun 14, 2012, 11:06 AM
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Legend [16259]
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Why couldn't NBC continue to televise Notre Dame home
Jun 14, 2012, 12:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: So You Say...... ] |
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games until the contract expires? Or ESPN buy the rights from NBC for ND's ACC home games? This stuff happens all the time. It's simply a point of negotiation, unless the NBC contract forbids Notre Dame from joining a conference, which I would find highly unlikely.
The ACC's current media partner ESPN would likely benefit from the extra broadcast network exposure of content that it would control in every other regard, and content that in only a few years it would control outright. The ACC would simply work out a pro-rated payment plan while it was ongoing.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: So You Say......
Jun 14, 2012, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to So You Say...... ] |
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1. If the ACC bends over and takes it from ND, so does Clemson and the rest of the ACC....
2. NCState, VT, UNC, UVA, Mary....states they don't have a presence in.
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All-American [551]
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Re: So You Say......
Jun 14, 2012, 10:59 AM
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thank you...
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Commissioner [942]
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If you can move the campus to either the state of NC or
Jun 14, 2012, 12:49 PM
[ in reply to So You Say...... ] |
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state of VA, then I'm with you on number 2.
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CU Guru [1117]
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I'm not sold on that theory and here is why
Jun 14, 2012, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: I have 2 Scenarios Why Clemson Is Not Going to the Big 12 ] |
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I would think the SEC would either stay put with the current schools they have or they could reach out to a school like Clemson.
We've all seen mention of them (SEC) going into North Carolina. NC and NCstate are tied at the hip. I do not see either leaving the ACC. The rich tradition of basketball in NC is strong and will stay that way even if the "football" school(s) leave the ACC. This puts NCstate is a no win situation but they would be made to stay put. And you can forget ECU...that won't ever happen
Now, onto Virgina: Basically the same applies between VT and Virgina. I do think VT would make a great addition to the SEC BUT the SEC would have no use for Virgina. I don't think the "Cavs" are that attractive.
Move up further and we find Maryland. Basically the last outpost of the ACC that matters (I'm sorry Cuse, Pitt, and BC were horrible additions). Now, Maryland brings a large "swath" of viewers that the SEC would be attracted to. However, Maryland fits either into the ACC or the Big 10.
I don't see anywhere else the SEC could expand to other than to take a school like Clemson. And forget about the Coots voting us down. Politics would get involved to make sure that would not happen.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: I'm not sold on that theory and here is why
Jun 14, 2012, 12:53 PM
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I believe the SEC would stay put before diluting their TV revenue cut by adding Clemson. I know I would never stand for a pay cut in my personal income. EVER.
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110%er [8142]
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110%er [7980]
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3rd scenario
Jun 14, 2012, 10:53 AM
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it was never an option
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Orange Blooded [4640]
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We were courted...then not invited to the dance.***
Jun 14, 2012, 10:57 AM
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110%er [7980]
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allegedly***
Jun 14, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Orange Blooded [4640]
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Enough so that out BOT stated we are open to evaluate
Jun 14, 2012, 11:04 AM
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our options. That was said for a reason...
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110%er [7980]
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I don't doubt they were open to options
Jun 14, 2012, 11:11 AM
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unfortunately there were no options
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Standout [338]
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Re: I don't doubt they were open to options
Jun 14, 2012, 11:23 AM
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I'm sure of a couple things based on common sense. First, there was some talk at least among the Clemson administration about moving to the Big 12. That's just human nature to talk about something new. The grass is always greener, we've had some ACC issues in the past, and FSU started it out.
Second, there was never any commitable offer to join the Big 12. First, that would be tampering and second, I don't think Texas wants to expand at least not right now. They like the conference without a championship game because they think it gives them an edge in competing for national championships. They're less concerned with another $2M in revenue than in the competitive edge they now perceive.
I don't know this for a fact, but the BOT may know very little more than we do about the Big 12's actual revenue sharing and TV contract. They may want to see what the Big 12 has to offer, hence the statement about listening makes sense. They may also want to light a fire under the ACC regarding a football focus and their statement probably did that as well.
There are a lot of reasons for statements like the ones that came out of the BOT, most of them not involving any discussions with the Big 12 or their representatives. I also think that the recruiting backlash was an unforseen consequence on their part. Had they had a little more vision, they might have come out with something a little more tempered, but sometimes when guys with egos get the chance for a little publicity, stupid things come out of their mouths.
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Aficionado [184]
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Re: 3rd scenario
Jun 14, 2012, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to 3rd scenario ] |
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I was told by a close friend who is very very high executive in the TV company that writes the checks that they had informed the Big 12 at the start of preliminary talks that they would pay the same for ten teams as for twelve teams if the two additions were from the ACC. I don't think that has changed in the month since I talked to him.
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Orange Blooded [4640]
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Having already paid IPTAY this year, any discussions of
Jun 14, 2012, 10:56 AM
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not continuing IPTAY would be for next year...after it all falls out. That goes without saying. The next check is due in February 2013...and things should be much more clear by then.
BTW, ND thinks much more of themselves than to join the ACC. To give them what they would want, Swoffie would have to screw over the entire existing conference. Also football would not benefit until the NBC/ND deal is done.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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3) The $ and potential revenue was not as great as some
Jun 14, 2012, 11:00 AM
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had led others to believe.
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110%er [6611]
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The New BCS Deal Could Change Everything........
Jun 14, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Old assumptions and arraignments may all have to be revisited if the new format is radical. Notre Dame may have to join a Conference and the SEC may have to modify their current model...
Just saying everything is subject to change
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All-American [551]
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Re: The New BCS Deal Could Change Everything........
Jun 14, 2012, 11:01 AM
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one thing that won't change is that contract that NBC's lawyers came up with and ND signed
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Commissioner [942]
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BUT no one will take a pay cut to bring anyone in. If
Jun 14, 2012, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to The New BCS Deal Could Change Everything........ ] |
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Clemson had been attractive enough for the networks to sweeten the SEC pot, we would have gotten in last year. The networks financially CANNOT afford to pay up. That's why "conference networks" is the future. That's why new markets is the ticket.
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Varsity [247]
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Louisville will not come to the ACC...
Jun 14, 2012, 11:12 AM
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and it's not because they don't want to, it's simply because they will be denied just like wvu was for academic reasons. the second team to join would likely be uconn or rutgers IMO
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Orange Blooded [4640]
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Glad those are close drives for player parents...
Jun 14, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Just had to be said.
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Varsity [247]
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Re: Glad those are close drives for player parents...
Jun 14, 2012, 11:24 AM
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the furthest away in the acc = the closest in the big 12. sorry the dust bowl conference isn't going to work out for you, that also just had to be said.
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Orange Blooded [4640]
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WVU is farther than Miami, 'Cuse, BC, Pitt?
Jun 14, 2012, 1:01 PM
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Just had to be said...
Sorry you cannot read maps.
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Legend [19352]
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All-American [551]
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Orange Blooded [4640]
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That is not even true...therefore not fact.
Jun 14, 2012, 1:09 PM
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Correct?
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Legend [16259]
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If Notre Dame were to join and PSU simply can't make a
Jun 14, 2012, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to Louisville will not come to the ACC... ] |
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switch, we should really look hard at Navy over a UConn or a Rutgers. I agree that Louisville will not be an option due to its academic structure. They're likely Big XII bound when it comes time.
Navy's not the football power that people on here clamor for, but they bring rich tradition, history, and are overall a stellar fit. They would also contribute significantly to helping solidify an identity for the ACC. After all, it is the Atlantic Coast Conference, why not a school that is invariably tied with the Atlantic coast.
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Orange Blooded [4096]
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Great Post!***
Jun 14, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: I have 2 Scenarios Why Clemson Is Not Going to the Big 12
Jun 14, 2012, 11:30 AM
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Good post. To follow up on that thought…
Those are possible scenarios and I believe there are an infinite number of other possible scenarios describing why this was put to bed now. That infinite number is based on what we don't know.
Consider all we that know (absolute facts) about this situation and then think about all that can be known about the situation. The amount of facts we know is infinitesimal compared to what can be known (and is known by those in the right positions).
I find it amazing that some are so presumptuous as to assume they know enough about this situation to make such harsh, brash decisions or statements. It is unreal. Maybe the coaches, ADs, BOTs, university presidents, conference commissioners, TV network lawyers etc. have more information that we do! Ya think?
Lord, some folks shouldn't get so worked up by what they hear in the rumorsphere. Let's lighten up, let people do their job, enjoy the beautiful fall in Clemson with 80,000 family members and anticipate the imminent reemergence of the Chicken Curse!
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All-American [551]
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Re: I have 2 Scenarios Why Clemson Is Not Going to the Big 12
Jun 14, 2012, 1:07 PM
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in 10 years that number will drop to less than 10,000
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: I have 2 Scenarios Why Clemson Is Not Going to the Big 12
Jun 14, 2012, 2:47 PM
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I assume the number you are talking about is the 80k. I was there in the early 70's when we sucked and the stadium was packed at 54,000. I know the world has changed, but back then we did not play in a power conference like the SEC, SWC, Big 10, Big 8 or PAC 10, yet we managed to build ourselves into a power. The sky didn’t fall then and it will not fall over the next 10 years.
...it goes back to what we know and what we don't know. Predictions of banishment to the netherworld of football nobodies are based more on rumors, speculation and a gross lack of information. There is a severe shortage of facts in the internet rumorsphere.
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CU Guru [1679]
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I just have one scenario.
Jun 14, 2012, 11:31 AM
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Clemson crunched the numbers and they didn't add up. Quite frankly, it always seemed to me that there were about as many negatives as positives in that move.
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Fan [79]
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ND isn't taking a pay cut to join the ACC and SEC saying no.***
Jun 14, 2012, 12:40 PM
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110%er [6611]
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If the BCS were to keep the same Format I would agree....
Jun 14, 2012, 12:51 PM
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As I said, this is a fluid situation and all bets could be off based on what the new BCS Format becomes
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Fan [79]
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ND will get some access. Too much clout not to***
Jun 14, 2012, 1:19 PM
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Commissioner [942]
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Also, you have to remember there's nothing magic about 16
Jun 14, 2012, 1:04 PM
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teams in a conference. Nor is there anthing magic about 14. But there is magic about 12, since that gives a conference a lucrative championship game. Texas A&M and Missouri got into the SEC due to their making a SEC Network lucrative. That's the only reason. It's not complicated.
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All-American [580]
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The SEC Network or what's referred to as "Project X" by
Jun 14, 2012, 2:41 PM
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Mike Slive makes it extremely difficult to bring in a school from the current footprint. CBS is balking at paying much for the TAM and Missouri additions. And they come from both 1. new markets and 2. much, much bigger states than clemson does. That's why the SEC is going the "network" route as its new business model. The revenue from cable subscribers in new states is way, way higher than that from subscribers within the footprint. So, it's impractical to bring in clemson to the SEC. If I was clemson, I wouldn't wait by the phone for a call from Mike Slive.
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